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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi stotty, thanks for the suggestion. I thought about modifying the TX, but a lot of people have ended up with TXs which don't work after trying this, so I'd rather not risk it. it works ok using the pots so I think I'll keep it simple. Not sure if the jet unit idea will work sufficiently well yet,- have to wait till the jet drive arrives to see if it's worth proceeding with building a boat for it.
JB ▲
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Remove Ads ๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ซ๐ท stotty1111 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
โง 170 Views ยท 1 Like
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It is also possible to buy a small board to mount in the tx, this uses the pads, without a need for soldering, and it makes flashing the tx simple.
Have you looked at the ER9X.com website? ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ซ๐ท stotty1111 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
โง 170 Views ยท 0 Likes
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Hi,
Try posing a question re your mixing want on openrcforums.com in the appropriate section, omeone will no doubt be able to help --- I use ER9X and derivatives, I have always successfully rexeiver suggestions / solutions that work. There are 2 or 3 developers of the systems on the platform! ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
โง 164 Views ยท 2 Likes
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Hi Mike, problem is that you need to shift a large volume of water and need either fwd or reverse flows, with reverse using both pipes at once or side to side. The Russian jet does this with a set of flaps inside a sort of closed Y shaped box- pic 6 (No 2 in the diagram,-above the 28 are the rear rudders/flow directors, No 1 is the rev ducts)-pic 8, all individually moved with an air ram system, (a lot of Russian stuff is pneumatically operated due to the freezing conditions in a lot of places, a good example is a Yak 52 which has air everything,-start, flaps, brakes etc)
Quite a complex device,- a Hamilton jet or similar is far simpler and much more compact. JB ▲
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Martin555
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง mturpin013 ( Admiral)
โง 171 Views ยท 2 Likes
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I'm sure she would JB ๐
However very interesting project I look forward to your solutions How about using the rotating ball system as in a domestic 15/20mm shut/off valve Im sure you can get varying sizes of plastic balls these could be drilled out and then at 90 degrees a spindle through to each side of your pipe to rotate it with the servo. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
โง 166 Views ยท 2 Likes
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Sorry Mike, made them before she moved on. Have made improved MK 2 now anyhow, so sensitivity problem solved ๐. (you could have called it the Queens' contribution to modelling,- she might have even been amused.)
JB ▲
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Martin555
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
โง 176 Views ยท 3 Likes
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Hi JB,
Looking forward to this build. Iโll be interested to see how you solve the leakage problem ๐ฆ ▲
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jbkiwi
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง mturpin013 ( Admiral)
โง 176 Views ยท 2 Likes
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Really ! Not very thoughtful using the Queens head, bearing in mind the present circumstances please replace with a piece of brass sheet. come on JB
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐บ๐ธ pressonreguardless ( Rear Admiral)
โง 174 Views ยท 2 Likes
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Hi JB,
I like to work on more than one project at a time. It breaks it up for me. Trev ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ฆ๐บ stevedownunder ( Captain)
โง 180 Views ยท 0 Likes
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Hi JB,
Interesting project. Cheers, Stephen. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
โง 184 Views ยท 3 Likes
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Hi Trev, hopefully it will do the trick, but will need some refining. Not too worried about speed, just getting the the jet action working well. Just something to do alongside the Stiletto when I have time.
JB ▲
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pressonreguardless
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐บ๐ธ pressonreguardless ( Rear Admiral)
โง 185 Views ยท 3 Likes
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Looks like a great project, JB๐๐
And you already have the propulsion system worked out๐๐๐ Looking forward to the build!! Trev ▲
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Rowen
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
โง 164 Views ยท 4 Likes
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Hi Graham, definitely will need a bit of pressure, but I'll be reducing the size of the reverse outlets to give it some help. The 26mm jets put out a fair bit of pressure once modified with a 3 blade cut down racing prop, minimum blade clearance and revised intake with vertical bars like the Hartley one, so with luck it will get things moving.
I'll have to wait till I get a jet unit before I can play with pipe sizes, and I'll probably be making a dummy hull to test things on first. Re the box,- the electronics shop has lots of different types (including alloy), but the waterproof ones they have are a lot larger (and expensive!) I thought of the waterproof cell phone boxes with clip on lids (for out in the boat etc) but they are polycarbonate and very heavy. Bound to be a better box, but finding who'd sell them is the hard part. As long as this one will hold the pressure with a silicone seal, (I'll glue a wider rim inside for better coverage) it should be ok for testing/proving the idea (or not ) at least. JB ▲
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Remove Ads ๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
โง 168 Views ยท 3 Likes
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Hi JB,
I think it is going to need a lot of water pressure to get a sufficient flow from the reverse outlets. For sealing the box, try to find an IP66 rated version. These have a built in sealing gasket for the lid. It might be difficult to find one small enough. Graham93 ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
โง 165 Views ยท 4 Likes
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Hi Trev, I'd probably just use a silicone gasket, but I need to glue in some center screw lugs to tighten it down evenly. Once sorted, it shouldn't need opening that often. Might be able to mould a silicone gasket in the lid, as the sides are really too thin for an o-ring.
JB ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐บ๐ธ pressonreguardless ( Rear Admiral)
โง 167 Views ยท 2 Likes
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Hi JB,
Could you use 'O' rings sandwiched between two lids? Trev ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
โง 156 Views ยท 3 Likes
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Hi Mike, I am going to glue stops behind the flaps to stop the flaps possibly being pushed back at the end of the servo travel. This might only be necessary with the reverse flaps, although there will be no water going past them to deliver any force, (water taking the path of least resistance and the end of the box being full of water) but if I make the fwd flap open a few degrees past 90, (a bit better for flow) I'll add one behind that as well.
JB. ▲
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Colin H
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง mturpin013 ( Admiral)
โง 167 Views ยท 3 Likes
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Thats looking a great improvement JB
only one observation - when water is flowing through each pipe in turn there may be excessive force trying to close the flap and maybe putting excess pressure on the servo - just a thought, the flap needs to be at exactly 90 degrees to the pipe when open ? ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐บ๐ธ Len1 ( Sub-Lieutenant)
โง 155 Views ยท 1 Like
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Thanks. This helps.
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Remove Ads ๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
โง 156 Views ยท 2 Likes
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Hi Steve, thought I'd do a diagram, as when you say that 3 flaps perform 4 functions in a jet unit, it's a bit hard to envisage. Russians do seem to have a knack for making unusual machines ๐ Beside a modern jet unit, they look pretty agricultural, but they seem to work ok.
JB ▲
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Martin555
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ฆ๐บ stevedownunder ( Captain)
โง 158 Views ยท 2 Likes
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Lovely diagram JB,
Defiantly quite a bit involved for this system. Certainly more complex than a bucket arraignment. Cheers, Stephen. ▲
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jbkiwi
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
โง 155 Views ยท 3 Likes
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Hi Steve, thanks for the suggestion. My 9x is an early one and hasn't got a data port (just a trainer plug). I think if you want to do anything with these, you have to use the pads on the board. Early on, a number of people on the HK forums, tried downloading upgrades etc and killed their TXs, so I'm not game to give it a go. You have to know what you are doing with that. There were instructions with pics on the HK site, but it's all gone now. It's not as nice using the pots, but for the amount the model will be used, it will have to do for now, (not even sure if the jet will work yet๐)
JB ▲
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Martin555
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ฆ๐บ stevedownunder ( Captain)
โง 154 Views ยท 2 Likes
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Hi JB,
Have you got Open TX Companion this is a great free program that allows you to program your 9X and other TXs on a computer then download the program onto the 9X. Maybe that might help. Cheers, Stephen. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
โง 143 Views ยท 3 Likes
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Hi Steve, more a proof of concept, but the theory is, that the water will take the path of least resistance and 'go with the flow' when the box is full๐. Seems to work ok with the hose, so hoping the jet will have enough grunt. If it works ok, I'll build the boat, ( I have purchased items for plan B -just in case.)
JB ▲
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Martin555
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ฆ๐บ stevedownunder ( Captain)
โง 144 Views ยท 1 Like
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Hi JB,
Great stuff, the only thing that bothers me is how much turbulence that will be created within the box. Are you thinking of rounding off some of the internal edges or is this more a proof of concept? Cheers, Stephen. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
โง 139 Views ยท 3 Likes
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Hi Roy, I think the jets are just like most of the Chinese stuff and not accurately made. The jet units I have are just the same (hole is out of round). I ended up making my own couplings as I couldn't find an accurately bored coupling. The shafts on motors etc seem to be ok, but they stuff all their couplings up, (far too much slop for high revs) They also mix imperial and metric sizes for shafts which is a major pain in the butt, 1/8", 4mm and 5mm for common motors.
Pretty sure the couplings are drilled to size not reamed, as the slop suggests that, (I've tried every type of coupling on Ali Exp, and they are all the same (best of them was the TFL brand, but still vibrated too much) Bought some 3mm and 4mm reamers from Ali Exp and my couplings are a firm fit with no play. Makes all the difference to noise. The best looking Chinese jet units are sold by Ocean Works in HK. JB ▲
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Martin555
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง CB90 ( Commander)
โง 142 Views ยท 2 Likes
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Thanks to reading your water jet mods I have been lucky to find two contra rotating props (one left handed and one right handed) at 40mm diameter in my prop box, both 4mm centred and dog fitments.
only 2 bladed, and about the same depth as the original so no cutting back the stator. Using a pillar drill I inserted the short 4mm shaft into the chuck, gave it a spin and used a sandpaper sheet glue to a block of wood to grind them down to size. Unsurprisingly they had to be made a little smaller than I would have liked due to the fact that the shafts were not perfectly central in the jet tube. I wonder if the ones of this type with the small prop, were a way of making the rejects (impeller binding due to shaft misalignment) saleable. regards Roy ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
โง 138 Views ยท 3 Likes
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Hi Roy, actually doesn't flow too badly,- (no bubbles) and flows through as fast as the hose on full. Won't really know if its any good until I can hook the jet to it. The main thing is to get it looking the part, not too fussed about performance (yet) Definitely will need sealing well and a few more screws, and maybe some reinforcement strips round the lid. I 've added a plate in the exit 'chamber' which is parallel to the flap when it's fully open, to channel the water evenly (see latest post)
JB ▲
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Remove Ads ๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง CB90 ( Commander)
โง 138 Views ยท 3 Likes
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Hi JB,
Nice job will be great to be able to see the inside of the distribution box when it in operation, perhaps some colour dye in the water to see any flow improvements that could be made, or not. But make sure its not permanent dye or you could look a mess if you spring a leak!๐ regards Roy ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
โง 138 Views ยท 0 Likes
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Hi Mike, it had better work well after that !๐
JB ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ฆ๐บ stevedownunder ( Captain)
โง 140 Views ยท 0 Likes
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Looks great JB,
Looking forward to seeing the hose test. Cheers, Stephen. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Russian K100D waterjet work boat project
2 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง mturpin013 ( Admiral)
โง 147 Views ยท 2 Likes
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Great job JB Im sure people will copy this design, its really a great piece of work, be careful its not picked up by a manufacturer
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