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💬 Bit of a problem.............
6 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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I believe it should be black Neville.
I would also correct the number. All the Fireboat and similar builders on the site know where to get the decals. Check out the Build Blogs / Discussions. I've started printing my own on adhesive Decal Paper, but I'm just like that 😉 Cheers, Doug 😎 ▲
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NPJ
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Remove Ads 💬 Bit of a problem.............
6 years ago by 🇬🇧 NPJ ( Warrant Officer)
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So heat gun should arrive tomorrow.....................Oh I do like buying new toys!
Given that I am now going to destroy all the decals, should I be changing the number on the hull and would that mean a change from Blue to Black? I should not be asking this, but looking it up. However, you have it in your head. Enjoyed the 'woodies' bit elsewhere. TTFN. ▲
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RNinMunich
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💬 Bit of a problem.............
6 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Neville, yep, only took about a half hour per hull 😊
And NO DUST 😉 If adjustable use the gun on medium heat and don't get too close or too long on the same spot or you'll scorch the wood. As soon as the paint starts to bubble or flake lift it with a not too sharp but not blunt 3/4" chisel. The gun will blow it off in chunks. I found that the chisel was more effective than a normal scraper. Work the gun from side to side just ahead of the chisel. After that I shone a very bright light inside the hull, which instantly showed up the holes and thin spots. I ringed them all with a felt tip and they then received extra attention and fibreglass strengthening. That'll fix your leak wherever the heck it is😊 Eeezy peezy😉 So - Tally Ho matey! Cheers, Doug 😎 PS I didn't have to 'scrap' either boat 😁😁 PPS I love the embedded insect fossils in your hull! Or are they cave paintings?? 😁 ▲
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NPJ
Donnieboy
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💬 Bit of a problem.............
6 years ago by 🇬🇧 NPJ ( Warrant Officer)
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So that stripping Doug was done with heat gun and scrapper?
I would go for that. Onetenor, if you are reading this............Thanks for the suggestions. Always welcome and I have a long way to go with this! NPJ ▲
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💬 Bit of a problem.............
6 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi again Neville,
Onetenor just posted this response to your 'Bit of a problem' but on the wrong thread😲 "Re the leaking boat problem. I would cut away the section between the stem and first bulkhead/frame. Replace with new wood.Then pour the resin into that space. No need for cocktail shaking ( unless you like watching wife ) just keep turning so the resin/varnish runs around all the seam/joints in that section until it sets.👍" OK, would fix the leak; if it is in that section and if it's done right. BUT: it would leave a kink in the hull lines cos the wood would no longer have the natural bend between the bullheads. The inserted piece would be flatter. You can see this effect clearly on the port side of my PTB hull in the pic. At the top in the pic. You can 'see the join' quite clearly When I'd cleaned the old paint off I found that there was a separate piece from stem to the second bulkhead. Repairs to the chine line made that look a bit smoother but nothing I could do about the rest without re-skinning the whole side😡 which I didn't fancy. I'll try to disguise it a little with the pacific camouflage paint 😉 Cheers, Doug 😎 ▲
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NPJ
Donnieboy
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💬 Bit of a problem.............
6 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Evenin' Neville, For God's Sake (Whoever he may be) put the wire brush back in the drawer and save it for cleaning engine blocks😲
Use a heat gun and a scraper to get the paint off without destroying the wood. Like I had to do with my Gina 2 fish cutter and PTB hulls. Much less dust than trying to sand / wire-brush the paint off. That way will take you a month of Sundays anyway. The sand the hull flat and cover it with two layers of fibreglass tissue and resin. I used EzeKote, no mixing, no smell, sets in about 20 minutes and brushes wash out in warm water. 😊 Apply a final coat of resin. Sand flat and prime. The pics show these three stages for the cutter and the PTB. If the crack is bad reinforce it on the inside with a couple of layers of tissue and resin. Then give the whole inside of the boat two coats of resin. Take out anything that stops you getting down to the underwater hull and keel joints. That should fix your leak once and for all, strengthen the boat to help prevent any further hull damage if you hit something underway and give you a good base for the final colour coats. Bon chance!👍 Now back to fixing the prop shaft in my cutter.😉 Cheers, Doug 😎 Oh, and by the way - 'DON'T PAY THE FERRYMAN'! ▲
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NPJ
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💬 'The Stripper'
6 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Evenin Neville, So far so good👍
If you are down to the primer you can start sanding. I started with 150 grit (80 on the cutter where there was 'inches' of filler!) and worked up (down?) to 600 grit Tamiya Sponges before priming. The primer doesn't react much to the heat as it's mostly fine chalk dust or similar. Glad the chisel 'trick' worked for you as well. Cheers, Doug 😎 Forgot to mention: before priming I applied two coats of EzeKote resin. Sanded that flat with 400 / 600 grit Tamiya sponges used wet. Then primed with grey primer filler. Pics show Sea Scout, Fish Cutter and PTB. The latter after EzeKoteing and the last with primer. ▲
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NPJ
SelwynWilliams
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💬 Still Stripping......With Care!
6 years ago by 🇬🇧 NPJ ( Warrant Officer)
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No way through to the bow from inside as first compartment is completely blocked off.
I am thinking some 'putty' then tissue and EsiKote or resin for the whole of that area both sides. As the clean off progresses, thinking about general layout of the 'bits' and wiring layout. NPJ ▲
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Remove Ads 💬 Still Stripping......With Care!
6 years ago by 🇬🇧 NPJ ( Warrant Officer)
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Oh thank you kind Sir, I am really over come.............
A lot of information in that Post. Will be really helpful. I concur, really bought a 'pig in a poke', 'donkey in a sack' or whatever. I will look later today, but doubt access being available to the bow from inside. Starting Monday, I am out of action for almost two weeks so will try and crack on now. Dropping my 'Jazzed up' ideas means a rethink on the electrics. Will look there for light relief whilst rubbing away! All the best my friend. NPJ ▲
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💬 Still Stripping......With Care!
6 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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That was exactly my impression Colin, your call was a pleasant surprise.
Stay in touch, Cheers, Doug 😎 ▲
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💬 Still Stripping......With Care!
6 years ago by 🇬🇧 Colin H ( Fleet Admiral)
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No additional thoughts at this stage Doug, looks like you covered it all, thanks for the phone chat, nice to hear a voice to go with the face. Cheers Colin.
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NPJ
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💬 Still Stripping......With Care!
6 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Evenin' Neville,
I told you you'd get the hang of it pretty quick. (It was either that or you'd burn the house down😲)😁 Seriously; I'm proud of you👍 You had the guts to give it a go and you're learning fast 👍 Hat off Sir! A few observations; (Colin might also have some at this point, had a very nice chat with him on the phone this afternoon - but that's another Encyclopedia Britannica!) #1 if the paint scraps are smoking the gun is too hot or too close, or moving too slow. Wind it down to 350 and see how that goes. Back up to ~400 if seems necessary. #2 Bow cracks; I see a bodge up there where someone couldn't bend the skin properly or, benefit of the doubt (In dubio pro reo!), maybe it was collision damage. Whatever; filler in a thin crack will always vibrate out again sometime😡 Try to get at the inside and seal it with two layers of fibreglass tissue well soaked in resin, EzeKote is what I used. Wait about 10 minutes before applying second layer. Then it should bond well with the first. When that has set (ca 20 - 30 minutes) then you can apply some fine filler from the outside. When set sand smooth and seal the whole hull outside with two layers of FG tissue. Sand smooth and if any bare wood appears apply wood sealer or EzeKote thinned with 10% warm water. Don't overdo the water or it takes yonks to dry and set - Yes, it happened to me🤔 Then continue with priming / finishing as described above; or look in my Sea Scout 'Jessica' blog for the fine details. The beauty of using EzeKote for all this is that you can get a whole hull done inside and out in one day and no mixing ratios to cock up😊👍 If it's any consolation to you; when I did all this on my fish cutter and PTB loads of filler went soft and fell out as well, and the 'goo' holding the prop shafts in my PTB as well. No sweat as I wanted to realign the shafts anyway! TIP: I removed all shafts rudders and any other protrusions in the way so there were no 'twiddly' bits left to make things awkward. Leaving the odd patch of sanded paint which is still firmly fixed to the wood is OK; as long as you can't feel a 'bump' with your finger tips and you are going to seal it with resin and primer anyway. Then it can't react with the new paint. Here endeth the 3039th epistle from Admiral Doug. Will all dissenters, contradictors and other lobbyists and Trump lawyers please queue up at the Spanish inquisition Office next door. Take a number, we'll grill you in turn 😁😁 How do you like your stake? Cheers All, Happy building and renovating, Doug 😎 Now back to me fish cutter gearbox, mechanical gubbinses are not really my strength🤔 HAMMER, have you got a minute please!? (Viewing / reading tip; click on the thread title, then you can read the the structured version in paragraphs as I wrote it 😉) ▲
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NPJ
Donnieboy
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💬 Still Stripping......With Care!
6 years ago by 🇬🇧 NPJ ( Warrant Officer)
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I am not posting this as a build update because scraping and sanding is boring…………although I now believe I will eventually finish it.
However, I have already found 4 areas with cracks. Whilst I was working on one of the sides a prop shaft fell off…….Just as well it was on its stand and not in the water! Now some of these cracks I suspect will be with filler falling out but there is a lot of filler in some parts anyway. It is coming along, but do I really have to remove every paint layer after the old primer? Surely if it is well sanded some little bits can be left, not large patches just bits in very awkward places…………….please? Other questions Where the Hull sides join the stern should those corners be square or rounded? When I scrapped the paint off most the filler fell out so it is difficult to tell how it was! Should the cracks in the bow planking be filled before sealing and is ordinary filler correct or does it need a ‘resinous mix’……………..? Cheers folks NPJ ▲
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💬 Now Coating and Matting
6 years ago by 🇬🇧 NPJ ( Warrant Officer)
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Thanks for the encouragement Donnieboy.
Hope to move it forward today to the tissue bit in the way you are suggesting. Fittings may end up in a selection bag on Ebay! TTFN. NPJ ▲
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💬 Now Coating and Matting
6 years ago by 🇨🇦 Donnieboy ( Warrant Officer)
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After the application of fibreglass or matting i usually put on a second coat of EZ-Cote.After drying lightly sand.Overlaps I find easy to level up with another coat of EZ-Cote.I have been using the same bottle for 3 years.That stuff really stretches.All the wrong size fittings can always be used on other projects or modify them to suit yours.
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NPJ
RNinMunich
Colin H
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💬 Sticking and Spraying
6 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Ain't got no 'Alfords in Germany 😭
But the hull is looking good Neville,👍 ▲
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NPJ
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Remove Ads 💬 Sticking and Spraying
6 years ago by 🇬🇧 cormorant ( Lieutenant Commander)
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💬 Sticking and Spraying
6 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Sorry, didn't seem like it somehow 😲
I'll shut up and leave you in peace. Ciao, Doug 😎 ▲
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suntugs
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💬 Sticking and Spraying
6 years ago by 🇬🇧 NPJ ( Warrant Officer)
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Now what are you moaning about? is this not the build blog?
I am working on a tablet and struggling............ The colour was Halfords choice. The only filler/primer in a fifteen mile radius! Will have more detail on the progress when matters are back to what passes for normal. TTFN NPJ ▲
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💬 Sticking and Spraying
6 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Interesting colour 😲 Whatever floats Your boat! 😉
Neville, why aren't you adding this stuff to your Build Blog? instead of spreading it over several disconnected posts?? Cheers, Doug 😎 ▲
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NPJ
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💬 Spraying Again.......
6 years ago by 🇬🇧 NPJ ( Warrant Officer)
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Just to feel comfortable I am going to go with a matt sealer of some sought............
NPJ ▲
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Inkoust
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Remove Ads 💬 Spraying Again.......
6 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Agreed Boaty 👍
With a plastic or glass fibre hull it's a slightly different kettle of fish. However I'm still wary of the primer absorbing moisture.🤔 Sealing with a matt or silk lacquer seems to give an extra knot or so as well😉 But here we were discussing wooden hulls. Cheers, Doug 😎 ▲
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NPJ
Ray
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💬 Spraying Again.......
6 years ago by 🇬🇧 boaty ( Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class)
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Hi Doug Red primer certainly is porus and does need some protection when used on a wooden hull. The only exception to this is when the hull is plastic then plastic primer can be used.
It adheres better than the standard primer and is readily available from the likes of Halfords etc. I have used this on my italeri P.T 109 and is still good seven years on. Boaty😁 ▲
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NPJ
Ray
RNinMunich
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💬 Spraying Again.......
6 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Bon chance mon ami👍
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💬 Spraying Again.......
6 years ago by 🇭🇺 MouldBuilder ( Vice Admiral)
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Thanks Doug. I start today.😊
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RNinMunich
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💬 Spraying Again.......
6 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Mornin' Peter,
Red primer can be a good match for some anti-fouling paints. If you are happy with the colour - fine. BUT!! Seal the primer paint with several thin coats of matt or silk clear varnish for the reasons mentioned to Neville above! Primer is porous!! Flatten the primer with 1000 / 1500 wet n dry until your fingertips tell you the surface is good. Apply the varnish in several thin coats, flattening lightly with 2000 / 3000 w&d between coats, until you have a good sealed surface. The varnish (or lacquer) will also give some extra protection against knocks and bangs 😊 Cheers, Doug 😎 ▲
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Ray
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💬 Spraying Again.......
6 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Mornin' Neville, ."How wet is wet"?
Hold the paper under a running tap, warm water, until it goes dark all over. Remove excess water with kitchen roll. You don't have to flood the hull but keep the paper well wetted. For convenience I use the Tamiya sanding sponges. They mould themselves to any shape they are used on which is great for compound curves. Keep a bowl of warm water handy to re-wet the paper or sponge from time to time and to clean of the residue that builds up on the paper. Also regularly wipe off the slurry that builds up on the object you are sanding with kitchen roll or a damp flat dense kitchen sponge. When you are finished wash off the hull (or whatever) with the the flat sponge and clean water. Dry off carefully with kitchen roll or non-linting cloth. DON'T do a bath test with just primer on the hull as the primer is porous! it consists mostly of finely ground chalk dust or similar in a solvent suspension. Wait until you have at least the first top coat on to seal it. You only have to look at a car with a primed wing, that has then been driven around in typical British weather for a few weeks, to see why!! Don't forget the 'secret ingredient' 😉 All the best, Doug 😎 PS Nearly forgot 😲 Start using a few drops of liquid soap on the w&d from the final preparation of the primer coat through til the end. ▲
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NPJ
Ray
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💬 Spraying Again.......
6 years ago by 🇭🇺 MouldBuilder ( Vice Admiral)
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Really useful information here. I will take it all on board. I would like to know though if the primer red is the ideal colour for your top coat for antifouling, can it remain as primer only or is it necessary to go to a proper top coat paint.
Thanks.🤓😊 ▲
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💬 Spraying Again.......
6 years ago by 🇬🇧 NPJ ( Warrant Officer)
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Thanks both.Really helps.
Question is as I have not used it before............"How wet is wet"? I have no idea and have not seen reference anywhere here. I thought I had and image of the 'mouths' but cannot find it. Only two small instances and at the overlap areas. Very pleased with how the damaged areas are looking and how solid the who;e thing now feels. If I am going to really wet it with rubbing down, I will bring forward the bath test as that will be quite a moment for me! All the best both. NPJ ▲
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Inkoust
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💬 Spraying Again.......
6 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Neville,
Check out my Sea Scout 'Jessica' renovation blog for how to achieve good paint finish! 'Wet n dry' is the ONLY way to go. Right from the priming stage. it stops the 'riding' you describe and the generation of flying dust which is anathema to any paint or varnish finish, but you do have to clean and re-wet the paper and the object you are sanding from time to time!!! Any mistakes at that stage will carry through to the top coats and still be visible 😡 Don't quite understand how you created 'mouths'. I'm wondering if you sprayed too close and/or too heavy!? Your apparently exorbitant paint consumption seems to hint at this🤔 For the record; I started with 240 on the primer/filler for my Sea Scout and worked up through 400, 600, 1000, and 2000 and 3000 for the final top coats and deck varnish. All 'Wet', with a few drops of liquid soap added at the top coat stages, i.e. from the 1000 stage. At the end I polish with a mild cutting polish 'Anti hologram' they call it here, from the auto industry. Tedious I agree and a generous dollop of patience is required (the 'Secret ingredient' I have often mentioned here 😉 But when you see the result it warms the cockles and makes it all worthwhile.😊 Happy spraying, cheers, Doug 😎 BTW; for the blue on my Sea Scout hull I used a 400ml rattle can for several coats (more than three in the end) and there's still some left ! BTW2; For masking I use Tamiya tape for nice crisp edges. Fill in behind that with 'normal' fine masking tape and newspaper. ▲
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NPJ
suntugs
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💬 Spraying Again.......
6 years ago by 🇬🇧 Colin H ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi there, the filler primer used on a car would normally cover a front wing with 3coats, so going by your Hull size it was about the right amount, 300ml primer would normally have given 2 coats so again about right. Although I usually try doing very light mist coats with 20 minutes between not allowing the paint to harden between coats allows the paint to bond better. When rubbing down between top coats I prefer to use 1200 wet and dry, wet in frequently, and the final rub down with 2500 wet and dry before finally polishing.
This is my preferred method, but other methods will still work. Cheers Colin. ▲
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NPJ
suntugs
Donnieboy
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