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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build
5 years ago by 🇬🇧 JOHN ( Midshipman)
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hi there
looking at the photographs of your rudders. I was just wondering, would it not be worth using a system called the closed loop system? this gives you a better / more precise control over your rudders. I take it that the rubber tube between the two rudders is just a temporary thing - just to get the size etc., ? but, here's a photograph (if you don't mind) of a system I use on the majority of my twin ruddered models - especially on MTBs and high speed models. John ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build
5 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi,
Well done. I will be following with great interest. Keep up the good work. Martin. ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build B
5 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi John,
I must admit I like the shape of that hull. Well done. Martin. ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build C
5 years ago by 🇳🇿 jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Thanks Martin, if you look in my 'harbour' you will see the 100 series HSL I finished a year or so ago which was built in an almost identical way (drawings were also from same Model Boats mag from 76 ) and was just basic. Luckily we still have both ex RNZAF examples still running in NZ (4 seaplane tenders (one restored in the RNZAF museum in Christchurch & Jaguar,-a private import) plus the 64 foot 100 series HSL (modified) in Auckland. Jaguar is being restored at the moment. The seaplane tenders were used by our RNZAF (Hobsonville/Whenuapai) marine section Sunderland base here in Auckland and Wellington. They were also used at the RNZAF seaplane base in Fiji (Laucala Bay - Sunderlands & Catalinas) during the war along with Maiami ASR boats and a number of other Airforce launches. BTW, managed to get everything in the blog section thanks to you and Doug.
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build C
5 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi John,
I am sure that after you have done a bit more tinkering it will not notice. Good work, keep it up. Martin. ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
5 years ago by 🇬🇧 BOATSHED ( Lieutenant)
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Great film Cliff Robertson plays John F Kennedy. I still have it on my DVD player hard drive. Watched it many times. Another great one is "They Were Expendable" also has the MTB's in it.
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Remove Ads 💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
5 years ago by 🇳🇿 jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Doug, just found a similar brushed ESC on AliXpress which has instructions which seem to better describe the actions of the ones we were discussing (if you can understand Chinglish) also have seen review on HK for a Hobywing ESC with a similar action (Rowan did a review I saw also, and was not happy with the performance, - thought I was onto a good thing for a moment)
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
5 years ago by 🇳🇿 jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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These have jumpers to select between NiMh and Lipo so I'm not sure if your info applies to these (most likely does, haven't seen your info before,- depends on who's selling them I suppose) but I have never had any probs, and can run the boats till I get sick of it and still have 3.8 v/cell left using 2200 Mah LiPos (1 per motor). Also am using the BECs in them for the RECs as I have very little draw,- being only REC and 1 servo to worry about. I use small props and run them at high speed to unload the motors (the brushless 2000kv in-runner motors in the HSL only draw about 3-4A flat out in a static test which translates to about 2.5-3 moving, giving a good hr or more of cruising round.) The MTB and Maiami use 12v 380 motors (15000 rpm) and 22mm 3 blade props which draw practically nothing while chugging around, and give slow maneuvering while spinning above stuttering speed, but will still run at scale speeds. Being cheap, if any smoke leaks out of these little rice cans you haven't lost much. Depending on performance I have 4 nice little 25A Trackstar programmable ESCs and 2 Ocday 25A programmable ESCs to use with brushless motors (the Trackstars being really nice little units with lots of features) the Ocdays not so much
Ocday (& other names) programme card shown). PS I only use LiPos. PPS Haven't tried tasting them yet, probably be ok with a nice sauce Bordelaise peut-être ? ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
5 years ago by 🇳🇿 jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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They probably do have a brake of sorts, but it must be quite a weak one as the motors don't snap to a stop as you can make some do. The 'manual' is one which is shown with those ESCs but I never trust the info and go with 'user experience'. The 320A is Chinglish for 32A according to reviews, and the 160A is no doubt 16A. If they ever give any trouble I may replace them but it's only a 2 sec p in the a 😮
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
5 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
5 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
5 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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All seems like a P-in-the-A to me JB🤔
Brake force zero OK. But the thing still seems reluctant to go directly to reverse. I'd just as soon spring a few bob/cents more for a really fully programmable ESC, such as the Hobbywing Quicrun series. Also I don't like the Low Voltage so called Protection Function at all! Quote from the User Manual: "For NiMH battery packs, if the voltage of the whole NiMH battery pack is higher than 9.0V but lower than 12V, it will be considered as a 3S Lipo; If it is lower than 9.0V, it will be considered as a 2S Lipo. For example, if the NiMH battery pack is 8.0V, and the threshold is set to 2.6V/Cell, it is considered as a 2S Lipo, and the low-voltage cut-off threshold for this NiMH battery pack is 2.6*2=5.2V." 1 What's an 8.0V NiMh? 6.66666r cells!? 2 Discharged voltage of an NiMh cell is 1.1V. Going below this starts to permanently damage the cell. Thus minimum voltage for this fictitious '8V NiMh' would be 6.6666r x 1.1=7.333r V. So if you use NiMh batteries this ESC will try to drive them to destruction and leave your boat up the creek w/o a paddle☹️. With a decent ESC (a la Quicrun!) you can select LiPo or NiMh, and manually tell it how many cells the pack has to be sure the protection works 'as advertised' at the correct voltage.😊 Yer pays yer spondulicks and yer takes yer choice! But this ESC would NOT be my choice for a boat. Or anything else for that matter. à chacun son goût ! As some might say 😉 Cheers, Doug ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
5 years ago by 🇳🇿 jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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You're right Martin, I'm the same with scale boat speeds. It would be nice if these were a bit more responsive (certainly if you had a heavier boat such as a warship you would definitely need better control) but the brake/center although mildly annoying, makes you drive a bit more carefully, (scale like) near the dock/banks etc, haven't managed to ram anything hard yet (touch wood) reminds me of the PT109 movie where they missed reverse and smashed through the dock.
I could buy much better ESCs but for the huge difference in the cost of twin ESCs in 2 boats (maybe 4 soon -the ST and maybe converting the Maiami to twin) I can buy 8 of these against 1 good boat ESC and put up with a minor annoyance. BTW which ESCs have you used in your boats ? PS, found some specs for these cheapies, are these the same as what you had ? John ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
5 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi,
I think you are right about "Friday" speed controllers. I prefer the control to be more responsive just in case. I like scale speeds or should I say more realistic speeds and I like the idea that I could get out of trouble quicker than I got into it. After spending many months and sometimes years building these models it would be a shame to have damage due to a slight lack of control. However I do admire the skills of the Guys that control there fast speed boats Well that is my opinion. Martin. ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
5 years ago by 🇳🇿 jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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They do have a brake function which can be turned off (correction-almost, to a point that it's not really a brake more a dead spot/center,-stronger on the forward only+brake) and they are not too bad once you do that (by jumper).
You are correct Martin in that they sometimes don't go into reverse, and you have to just flick the throttle forward and back (about .5 sec) and they will switch. Sometimes if you go to neutral and wait about 2 secs they will switch, (not sure why they do it but I always drive accordingly.) No problem going straight from rev to forward though. Could be I'm only using 2s lipos and they need a bigger voltage to perform better although they are similar on 3s. The main thing for me is the sound units sometimes lag behind the throttle, (maybe they cause the problem as my Maiami ASR has 1 and no sound unit, and you can go backwards and forwards all day),-might even be that you get a few 'Friday' ones in the orders (I have 6, and some seem better than others) If you have a look at my vid of the Thornycroft MTB (twin motors 1 sound unit) you'll see what I mean about the sound lag near the end. All in all for $9 bucks they are pretty reliable. Same thing happens with my 100 series HSL but it has a twin brushless set-up and twin sound units but on the bench everything works perfectly for both types.??? Hope I haven't partially unmade anyones' day!? ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
5 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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😮?
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Remove Ads 💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
5 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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The way the last two week have going for my I needed something to cheer me up.
I will PM you. Martin. ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
5 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Who's fishing for compliments then?😉
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
5 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Doug,
I don't believe it I actually got something right! That's made my day. Martin. ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
5 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build D
5 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi John,
Nice looking motors. I think that the speed controller that you show in the photos has a built in brake. You will not be able to go from forward to reverse without having to move the TXstick back a couple of times. I may be wrong but I think I tried them in my HMS Cottesmore then quickly replaced them because of that reason. Martin. ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build E
5 years ago by 🇳🇿 jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Might try that sometime Martin sounds good. I buy proper Randolf brand (USA) butyrate aircraft dope from a local 100% aircraft accessory/parts co by the quart, (about 50 NZD as against 20 for 250ml from the hobby shop) so next time I'll try some. Have used it with talc (now I think of it - had completely forgotten DUH !). Good for fine finish on the plane models pre painting. Thanks for reminding me!
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Remove Ads 💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build E
5 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Many years ago I used to mix French chalk and dope as a filler for balsa wood.
Very easy to sand down. Martin. ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build E
5 years ago by 🇳🇿 jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Doug, did the same thing, saving sanding dust from various timber types and mixing with resin to use as a matching filler on my 100% boat restos - see Mahogany rudder stock - (made from my late mothers prized 1960s African Mahogany dining table) on my 15ft Schock day sailer (used that method on a number of different timbers all over the boat). Recycling at its' most useful .
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build E
5 years ago by 🇳🇿 jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Not a bad idea Martin (even if it did hurt) could collect it and add it to resin for internal hull filleting. I've found that resin tends to be too hard to sand from balsa (even with micro balloons etc) as the fairing material needs to be softer than the wood you are filling. There is a nice filler specially made for balsa which maybe available from your local hobby shop which is made in the US called Model Lite (see pic) It is available from Tower Hobbies at around 12 USD plus probably a leg (and maybe an arm )for postage. We can get it here but it's about 25 NZD hence my cheaper 6 NZD filler.
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build E
5 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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LOL!
It could be still worth a try! And yes you are right this less older guy needs a rest after all that thinking LOL! Martin. ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build E
5 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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"I wonder if all of the filler dust could be reused?"
Hi Martin, If at all you'd probably need a two part resin to set it. The 'dust' having been 'cured' once already would be more or less inert. So literally just a filler material. I used that trick once for an 'invisible' repair of a terracotta figurine for Gisela. 'Is 'ead 'ad fawllen orf ☹️😭 I filed down some scraps of broken terracotta and mixed it with clear two part epoxy glue. Worked a treat and the figurine is still intact after several years on her terrace😊 Cheers, Doug 😎 PS Now go and lie down in a quiet and dark room for a little while Martin 😉💤 ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build E
5 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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I have just had a thought (and yes it did hurt LOL!) I wonder if all of the filler dust could be reused?
Maybe it could be mixed with some white wood glue and reapplied. I suppose as an experiment you could try it on a bit of scrap and if it works ok that will save a bit of cash! Martin. ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build E
5 years ago by 🇳🇿 jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Don't be too hard on yourself Martin, I've nearly plastered on 1kg so far of a light silica filler, - most of it as usual ends up in the vacuum ! Better to use too much than too little is my filling motto. I should have used 2mm planks as I did with the HSL which would have given me a bit more 'meat' to sand off, but I went with 1.5mm this time and have had to be a bit less aggressive (although I did use my belt sander to rough down the deck framing).
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build E
5 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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That is a great looking hull, and I like the curves on the transom.
If that was me making that hull I would have to purchase the filler by the lorry load LOL! Martin. ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build F
5 years ago by 🇳🇿 jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Thanks Martin, I find that if your framing is ok, and you use medium balsa (plank grain lengthways, you seem to come out with a much truer shape to f/glass than trying to torture sheets of balsa or ply round corners, (pretty much do it the same as a 100% boat and you can't go too far wrong) Managed to bring the chine down at the bow using filler (which took the most time)
I'll re-do the frame patterns to fix this problem and do a few other dimension changes and frame positions in case anyone else might want to have a crack at this boat, once I've sorted everything out. I'll try and do it so I can email 100% frame outlines etc plus a bit of info to enable anyone with a bit of modelling skill to knock up a hull. As I said before, I'm making this up as I go along so it won't be perfect, but at least it should be a reasonable 'stand off' (long way off) scale model.😂 Glassing is the fun easy bit! (check out my last 100% big glassing job on my 12ft 70s racing dinghy) I enjoy glassing, as it means you are sealing in all the hard work you've put in to building, repairing, restoring etc and it's going to be there for years to come. ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build F
5 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Jb,
Nice bit of laminating. Martin. ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build G
5 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Jb,
I know that feeling well. Martin. ▲
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Remove Ads 💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build G
5 years ago by 🇳🇿 jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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It's taken a few hours of scratching but its nearly there. Sanding's not as much fun as it used to be, (getting a bit of arthritis in me old age)
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build G
5 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Jb,
That hull is looking good. Nice job, well done. Martin. ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build H
5 years ago by 🇳🇿 jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Thanks, again but I owe it all to superglue Martin, makes planking pretty easy especially using the thick type. You can literally put a drop of glue on the center stringer, hold/clamp plank (which you have pre-cut lots of) for 15 secs and on to the next one and once done glue the ends. Pretty quick really, only took a few nights to rough plank it to get the shape (not concerned with looks at that stage,) trim, sand, fill and fair, glass, trim, de wax, sand, re-coat resin, de wax, finish sand, seal, undercoat, topcoat, have cup of tea and 'Bob's your uncle'. Once everything is sorted inside, (motor mounts, shafts etc coat inside with International Everdure 2 pot timber sealing resin (which also smooths out the inside) and you can virtually kick it round the floor once the deck's on,- strong but lighter than a glass hull.
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build H
5 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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It is surprising the amount of work that is required to build a hull.
I think you are doing a great job. Keep up the good work. Martin. ▲
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build I
5 years ago by 🇳🇿 jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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That's a good idea Martin. I was thinking along those lines but locating pins on a motor mount tray might be an idea. The motors in my HSL are on quite nice mounts which come out fairly easily, and they are in turn on blocks glued to a tray which is screwed onto the bearers. Due to lack of space, I had to do it that way so I could wriggle each motor out (the stiff motor wires go through the bulkhead to the ESCs on the other side) and you have to be careful not to bend them too much,- see pic) This boat has a lot more room to play with and I might make as much as possible 'plug in' with Deans type plugs or 'Banana plugs '( not too much worry about drawing a heap of current with 6v motors !)
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💬 Re: 40" Seaplane Tender, new build I
5 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Nice,neat and tidy.
I like it. You mentioned maintenance, on Cottesmore I mounted everything including motors on removable trays.(with location pins so that everything would line up every time) Martin. ▲
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