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    34 inch Crash Tender refit
    by Graham93 ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
    ๐Ÿ“ฃ










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    11 Posts 101 Comments 0 Photos 86 Likes
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    ๐Ÿ“ Fire Monitors revisited
    2 days ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Based on the build described in my previous 'Fire Monitors part 4' blog, the performance of the fire monitors on the lake was less than impressive so I decided to rework the plumbing.

    The solenoid valve based solution worked, but the water flow was restricted by the small bore of the valves. Using two valves to divert water from the ESC cooling to the monitors also meant that one or other of the valves was always energised resulting in unnecessary battery drain. To overcome these limitations, a diverter valve was constructed based on a 10mm compression fitting from the local plumbing store. A central rotor was turned on the lathe and then cross drilled to produce a three port valve which is actuated using a small servo. I wasn't sure that this would work without leaking, but with an o-ring fitted on the rotor shaft it seems to be OK. At one extreme of the servo rotation, water is routed from the pickup scoop to cool the ESC and motor. At the other extreme of travel, water is routed from the pickup to the monitor pump. An RC switch connected to the same Rx channel as the valve servo switches the monitor pump on when the valve is routing water to the pump.

    The pump was also upgraded. I have tried a variety of pumps sourced on-line, most of which did not have adequate performance. The pump now in use is an aftermarket windscreen washer pump which seems to work OK.

    To make it easier to install in the model, a ply chassis was constructed to hold the valve, pump and the RC switch. The chassis also provides a locating box for the LiPo.

    Out on the lake this afternoon, I was able to get a few photos of the monitors in operation. The performance is much improved.

    Fire Monitors
    pickup
    lathe
    LiPo
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors revisited
    2 days ago by Martin555 ( Rear Admiral)
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    Hi Graham,
    I like the way you made you'r 3 way valve , and looking at the photos it works well.
    Nice work.
    Well done.

    Martin555.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors revisited
    2 days ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    Nicely done Graham๐Ÿ‘
    And great photos!
    In pic #4 looks like you've attracted the attention of a mini shark๐Ÿ˜ฎ or is it Nemo's Nautilus?
    Cheers, Doug ๐Ÿ˜Ž
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors revisited
    2 days ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Doug,

    Hadnโ€™t noticed that! But not so exciting Iโ€™m afraid, just an autumn leaf ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿคฃ
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors revisited
    2 days ago by MouldBuilder ( Lieutenant)
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    Wow! That is a spectacular result. You must be pleased.๐Ÿ˜Š
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors revisited
    1 day ago by mturpin013 ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Graham, nicely done, something to be considered, I also found the solonoid valves restricted the flow too much, hence I was looking at piping straight from an entry scoop at the mid-ship point.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors revisited
    12 hours ago by jbkiwi ( Captain)
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    Nice job Graham, looking really good now and 'fully loaded', a regular floating gadget factory! When's the next vid with all the toys working? Envious of all the nice room you have to play with.๐Ÿ˜ด
    JB

    toys
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors revisited
    9 hours ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Hi All,

    Thanks for the positive comments. Iโ€™m happy with the result so far, but it isnโ€™t quite finished. One more gadget still to add. Then I need to sort out the weight distribution. Itโ€™s a bit stern heavy, and has slight list to port. Iโ€™m hoping that moving one of the LiPos will fix that.

    JB, I did try to get some video on the lake this week, but the result wasnโ€™t worth posting. Handheld is impossible while also trying to control the boat. It moves too quick and needs constant attention to avoid running into the bank, or other boats. Need someone to help, either with the boat, or the camera.

    camera
    Handheld
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    ๐Ÿ“ Exhaust Smoker
    1 month ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Following several weeks experimenting, and lots of discussion with jbkiwi, the exhaust smoker is now installed in the Crash Tender.

    The heart of the device is an e-cig tank and coil. This was adapted with an acrylic end piece to allow connection of power and air. The 2ml capacity of the e-cig is a bit limiting so an expansion tank made from acrylic tube was added to give a fluid capacity of around 10ml. The smoker fluid is 75% vegetable glycerine.

    The coil in the e-cig is designed to work from a single cell LiPo battery. A power converter drops the voltage from the boat's 2S battery down to 3.5V with a claimed efficiency of 98%. This voltage is adjustable which allows control of the amount of smoke produced.

    Forced air is provided by a small diaphragm pump salvaged from a defunct blood pressure monitor. This pushes air through the e-cig. The resulting smoke is fed into the cooling water line between the ESC and the exhaust ports.

    As the smoker is most effective simulating the engine 'ticking over' a water pump is used to create some water flow when the main propulsion motor isn't running. This adds more realism to the effect.

    An electronic controller based on PIC microchips connects to the throttle channel and pulses the air pump at a rate determined by the throttle setting. It also runs the water pump at a slow speed, and controls the power to the smoke generator coil. If the throttle is held at maximum for a couple of seconds, the smoker pumps and coil are switched off to save on battery consumption. With the throttle at idle, a quick blip forward on the throttle will start the smoker again. Power consumption is around 0.7A on a 2S LiPo.

    The two pumps are mounted below the footwell floor and the smoke generator is fixed to the bulkhead at the rear of the engine room.

    My thanks go to jbkiwi for his encouragement and suggestions during the development of this feature.

    Graham93
    Exhaust Smoker
    โ–ถ๏ธ

    vegetable glycerine
    device
    e-cig
    blood pressure monitor
    boat
    pumps
    LiPo
    smoke generator
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
    1 month ago by robbob ( Captain)
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    Hi Graham.
    Very nicely engineered๐Ÿ‘ the video of the result of your efforts clearly shows that it works and is most realistic.
    Combined with the operational fire monitors the plumbing and electrical arrangements for these features are ingenious.
    Congratulations.
    Robbob.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
    1 month ago by Martin555 ( Rear Admiral)
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    Hi Graham,
    All of you'r experiments have really paid off.
    That is fantastic.
    I can already see the faces of the onlookers as she is just gently moves away from the jetty water spitting out and the exhaust smoke gently puffing.

    I wonder how many times you will get asked how did you manage to do that!

    Excellent work.
    Well done.

    Martin555.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
    30 days ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    View Video
    Rob, Martin,

    Thanks for the positive comments.

    A few short video clips of the smoking Crash Tender on the lake this afternoon. Weather conditions were far from ideal. No on-lookers to ask questions ๐Ÿคฃ. Weatherwise, it felt more like I should be sailing an icebreaker๐Ÿ˜

    Graham93
    SmokingClips
    โ–ถ๏ธ
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
    30 days ago by mturpin013 ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Hi Graham what a wonderful result, congratulations.
    Once again someone has set the bar at a really high standard, one which I have to try and reach as I'm just about to start on this part of my build. (some reasearch needed me thinks!)
    Is the electronic controller based on PIC microchips a commercially available item or as I think one of your own design? As mechanical engineer, any chance of a wiring diagram, happy to pay?
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
    30 days ago by marky ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Looks great ,videos are great.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
    30 days ago by Martin555 ( Rear Admiral)
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    Spot on Graham.
    Excellent and just as i pictured it.
    Well done.

    Martin555.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
    30 days ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Hi Michael,

    Thanks, glad you like it.๐Ÿ‘

    Re: Is the electronic controller based on PIC microchips a commercially available item?

    The controller is my design based on three baseline PIC microchips. Not the most elegant of designs, as this could all be implemented in one mid range PIC with a bit more effort, but it was quick to do this way, and I have a stock of the baseline parts. PIC1 acts as a simple RCswitch monitoring the throttle channel to turn the smoker on/off. PIC2 provides the smoke pulses by turning the air pump on/off at a rate determined by the throttle channel. PIC3 implements two motor speed controllers, one for the water pump, and one for the air pump. This latter speed controller is modulated by the on/off pulses from PIC2.

    The circuit board shows the three PICs. On the underside of the board there are three surface mount power FETs to drive the smoker coil and the two pumps.

    I'm happy to share more details on my current implementation of this, but it is not very configurable/transferrable unless you have experience with PICs and the necessary tools. For example, following the trial on the lake yesterday, I think it would work better if the water pump was running a bit faster. To make that happen I have to change some values in the software, and then reprogram the appropriate PIC. It was just easier to put together this way, but its not very practical on the lake.๐Ÿ™„

    I have it in mind to redevelop the software on a better PIC and to add some buttons on the circuit board so that various parameters could be adjusted without having to reprogram the PICs. It will be an interesting challenge, but will take a little while as I'll have to fit it in around everything else ๐Ÿ˜‰.

    Graham93

    speed controllers
    pumps
    software
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
    29 days ago by Rookysailor ( Lieutenant)
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    What a fabulous effect for a boat, the mind boggles
    how you and jb, managed to fulfill the idea, just pure
    talent๐Ÿ‘

    Cheers, Pete

    btw Video is excellent, even in the rain!

    boat
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
    27 days ago by jbkiwi ( Captain)
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    Re -A few short video clips of the smoking Crash Tender
    Don't know how I missed these Graham, that looks excellent, really should get a few comments at a club meet! Pity I've got no one here to impress other than a few passers by. I'm still trying to make mine small enough to fit in the ST but as previously mentioned the low floor makes it difficult. You need some engine sounds to go with it now!
    JB
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
    27 days ago by jbkiwi ( Captain)
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    Re- following several weeks experimenting,
    I was going to ask what pump you had Graham but you have answered it here. Seems to work quite well, not sure how mine will go (if they ever arrive) but there are a number of air pumps on line to try. Need something with a bit of grunt to it.
    I think this little project has been a great example of Kiwi/Anglo cooperation as we have both swapped ideas back and forth to get this result.
    Graham has refined the electronics and done a great job and I'm pleased that he has taken an interest in my original simple idea, and with his electronics knowledge made it pretty flash. With the greater model boat interest in the UK, I'm sure it will be seen on more models yet and is a device which can be easily adapted to any model - tugs, PT boats, barges etc, - with or without water.
    The best thing is it can be made very cheaply as against the price of current marine smoke machines.
    JB

    device
    smoke machines
    models
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
    26 days ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Hi JB,

    I've tried a couple of air pumps and prefer the one salvaged from the blood pressure monitor as it is a diaphragm pump which seems to give it more grunt, despite running on a lower voltage. It is also smaller than the other one I tried so it was easier to fit under the footwell floor.

    Your original posts got me thinking about how to solve the challenge of making something that gives a realistic effect. I love a challenge like that ๐Ÿ˜€. Now you have suggested it needs sound to go with it. Just when I thought we were nearly there ๐Ÿ™„. Something else to think about...

    Graham93

    Hi JB
    blood pressure monitor
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
    25 days ago by jbkiwi ( Captain)
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    Hi Graham, I think the pumps I am waiting for are the the same as you've shown here (round micro air pump), saw a diapragm pump somewhere but can't remember what site (Ali Express I think) There are some very flash ones but they are above $50 for the basic one (might be a mini piston pump I think) American lab equipment co from memory.

    Re sounds, the ones I use are car versions by GT Power which have around 50 car sounds loaded, and a few make good boat sounds. Unfortunately they don't have sounds for Napier Sea lions or Rover Meteorite V8 fireboat engines (but there is a V8 sound which I use in the ST and MTB and another sound in the HSL which are quite suitable. There are diesel sounds good for tugs etc and various others. The start up and shut down is a cool feature.


    They are about the only thing I've seen that's half decent, as they are actual sounds, not artificial. I think they run off an internal SD card and the sounds (from start up to full revs) are split into lots of small WAV files, and when the throttle stick is at a static position, the sound in that file keeps looping till you move the stick, (quite subtle on a lot of the sounds) You can hear them in the ST vids.

    I was thinking, if someone was clever they might be able to get the proper sounds and write a new file, (you can plug the unit into your computer and open the sound files as well as some adjustable features). probably have to figure out how the files are linked to the player in the unit and how the TX signals them to play ?
    JB

    computer
    stick
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
    24 days ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Hi JB,

    I was thinking of a simple artificial sound generator as that isnโ€™t too difficult to put together. I think it would just be a bit more software in the revised controller Iโ€™m putting together. However, Iโ€™ve just been browsing my favourite on-line store and found this. There also seem to be plenty of sound files available on the www to download. Would undoubtedly sound better, but unfortunately it will have to go on my ever increasing โ€˜to doโ€™ list๐Ÿ˜‰
    Graham93
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WTV020-SD-16P-U-disk-Audio-Play-Mini-TF-SD-Card-MP3-Sound-Module-For-PIC-Arduino/272035249230?hash=item3f56907c4e:g:e~UAAOSwR9Ndw8Mx
    ๐Ÿ”—

    Hi JB
    sound generator
    software
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
    24 days ago by jbkiwi ( Captain)
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    Good chance this sort of thing is what's driving the sound in these modules I have. Wonder if it would be possible to download a new sound by using another SD card (if my units do have that type of system,- haven't pulled one apart so have no idea what's inside.) Too hard to contact the manufacturer,- they say if you send them a sound file they will email you a file to upload to the unit, but my last query was unanswered (no email back)

    Not to worry, the sounds I have work ok, and there are probably 0 people in the country who know what a Napier Sea Lion engine sounds like, (in the HSL for eg). When it comes down to it, unless you are trying to score points in a scale competition, who would ever know (or care) what engine a boat had in it (except perhaps you). If it sounds close enough, it will still impress people.
    It was quite funny when I demo'd the diesel sounds I was first using in the HSL, to the present owner of the original 100% HSL, as he thought that it sounded just like the engine he had fitted to it (GM 8v-92- previously 2x GM 671). At least 1 person in NZ liked it!
    JB

    units
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    ๐Ÿ“ Fire Monitors Part 4
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    The boat has a water cooled ESC and engine mount. These are fed from a scoop behind the prop. The water circulates through the ESC and engine mount and then out through the exhaust ports on the transom. The first attempt at plumbing in the monitors was to simply tap into this cooling circuit, add a filter and pump and feed the pumped water to the monitors. This didn't work too well.

    With the pump running the monitors worked well, but water was sucked backwards out of the cooling circuit, drawing air in through the exhaust ports until the pump was sucking on air and the monitors stopped working. I had sort of expected this might occur so I had a non return valve available ready to fit in circuit just before the exhaust ports to prevent this reverse flow. I had hoped I would not need to fit it as I am concerned that the extra flow resistance it will cause will reduce the effectiveness of the cooling circuit. The second, unexpected problem with this simple approach was that, with the pump off, there was enough water pressure in the cooling circuit that the monitors continued to dribble water onto the cabin roof from where it drained into the hull. Adding the non return valve in the cooling circuit would only serve to make this problem worse owing to the increased pressure in the circuit. The last thing I want is for the boat to slowly fill with water, drenching all the electrics and gradually sinking so this dribble needs to be stopped.

    After some thought, I decided that a diverter valve could be the solution. This would route the water either to the pump and monitors, or to the cooling circuit. I reasoned that I would not want the monitors working while the drive motor was running at high speed and so can afford to switch off the cooling circuit while the monitors are operating. I had an interesting few hours making a servo driven cam mechanism which at one end of it's travel would squash the silicone tube to the cooling circuit while allowing flow to the pump and monitors. At the other end it would cut off the water to the pump, and enable the cooling circuit. The servo would be driven by the same channel as the RCswitch that turns the pump on/off. Great idea, but it didn't work ๐Ÿค” The servo doesn't have enough power to turn the cam and squash the tubes and simply stalls. I need to try thinner tubes, or a more powerful servo, or something? Any helpful suggestions welcome...

    Throughout the summer I have tried to keep the boat sailable for the local club sessions on a Wednesday afternoon. Not wanting to have to keep it in dry dock for an extended period while solving this issue I tried a different approach. I had available two solenoid valves so these were pressed into service as shown in the sketch. An RCswitch was constructed so that, with the pump on, valve A is closed and valve B is open. This routes the water flow to the pump and monitors. With the pump off, valve A is open and valve B is closed, routing the water to the cooling circuit. This works!

    In the video (my first ever on YouTube) you can see how water flows from the exhaust ports when the monitors are off. I don't have a test tank at home so water is fed into the water scoop connection using a small aquarium pump. Now I just need jbkiwi to solve the smoker challenge so that I can add some smoke ๐Ÿ˜
    Fire monitors
    โ–ถ๏ธ

    boat
    filter
    monitors
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
    2 months ago by Martin555 ( Rear Admiral)
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    Hi Graham,
    Is there any particular reason that you are only using one pump for cooling and monitors ?

    Martin555.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Hi Martin,

    The cooling isnโ€™t pumped. There is enough flow round the circuit just from the motion of the boat and the pressure from the prop. At least there was until I fitted the valve. Havenโ€™t had chance to test it on the lake since I fitted that. If necessary, I could change the plumbing so that the pump is in the direct line from the water pickup and runs all the time. That would increase flow through the cooling circuit, and the valves could still be used to switch the flow between cooling and monitors.

    Graham93

    water pickup
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
    2 months ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    Where did you sources the valves Graham?
    Can you post a Web Link please?
    And what voltage are they?
    (Questions questions questions!!๐Ÿ˜)
    I think there are several members who'd like to know that.
    Cheers, Doug ๐Ÿ˜Ž
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
    2 months ago by jbkiwi ( Captain)
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    Re - The boat has a water cooled ESC and engine mount.
    Hi Graham, boat's looking great, monitors brilliant! Had a thought about the water system and was wondering if you could do the layout in a slightly different way. With the pump where it is in the drawing, it might have a harder time sucking the water through the pipe and valve than if it were nearer the pickup, (it would be pushing more than sucking, - maybe less strain on the pump). Also giving you water from the exhausts when stationary (unless you are intending a second pump for that) Suggestion pic of layout
    JB

    boat
    pickup
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
    2 months ago by jbkiwi ( Captain)
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    Re - Where did you sources the valves Graham?
    Hi Doug, I've just found some on Ali Express while looking for air pumps, check these puppies out๐Ÿ˜
    JB
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    JB,

    Yes, I could change the plumbing round as you suggest. The downside is the pump would have to run continuously. The present arrangement only needs the pump running when the monitors are in use. However, when it comes to smoking exhaust, maybe Iโ€™ll need it plumbed that way

    Doug,

    The solenoid valves were sourced from a box in my workshop, which is now empty, so there is no point providing a weblink to that ๐Ÿคฃ. However as the box is empty, I did order two more earlier today from eBay for smoker experiments. These are identical to the ones I used for the monitors and look very similar to the ones JB has found.

    They are rated 12v but seem to work quite happily on a 2S LiPo. Draw less current that way which will help with battery duration. Whilst it works well in practice, Iโ€™m not too happy with the dual solenoid solution from a current draw point of view. One solenoid is always activated, so there is a constant current drain. The servo driven cam solution would have had minimal current drain, shame it didnโ€™t work ๐Ÿค”

    Graham93
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-Mini-Electric-Solenoid-Valve-Normally-Open-Fluid-Air-Gas-Water-Valve-J7/264467726756?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3d938141a4:g:JQgAAOSwlSBa9lZG&enc=AQAEAAACQBPxNw%2BVj6nta7CKEs3N0qX63lU0L3MVMHgwqRWDFa5fU6YnPNp2DuVMJnQhqelceMGj44nT1LtBcj2g%2Bl6DuOnQVwjqKrZ%2Ffd2irZNTXetznfw0kYraVv5TU2SG%2FNjrFlPNvngZvZ2h9sIaIyOOmEe%2FljbDFqXjgwTZ%2FDqRewmFWSQ7JFvFl1yArlQ2ajfAAyJ1BeobPxlp0eYQhAnM0qgbfi5juPq7EmYV5LUjWQWXbdSSkZcdzt0HapF226azpi6blJikYx14BEloDTRKAAE%2F351GX7BdUUaP3Lcey
    ๐Ÿ”—

    monitors
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
    2 months ago by MouldBuilder ( Lieutenant)
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    Very impressive Graham. I am interested in your comment regarding the solenoid valves. I see that they are 12v; do they have exposure to any back pressure as I cannot get mine to work without applying around 10v. I am a little more optimistic of my setup if they can trigger at 7.4v.
    Thanks.
    Peter.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
    2 months ago by jbkiwi ( Captain)
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    Re- Yes, I could change the plumbing round as you suggest
    How about using something like these remote switches which I use on my HSL and ST to turn pumps and lights etc on/off. As long as you have a spare switch (or rotary - I use the rotary on my HK 6ch to turn on the lights) You could also switch it in the TX program to work with the motor. In the ST I have one switching the pump and ESC fans and one for lights.

    I only use a 2s 1800MAh LiPo to drive my pump in the ST, and it will run for more than an hour, and the battery will only get down to 3.8/cell, (from 4.1) - a 2200MAh would last forever. When I tested my pump, it was only drawing about 1.25A loaded. Do you know what your particular pump draws? You would not be running the monitors constantly but you could always put another small pump in the motor line and run it constantly as I do, and do away with the solenoids (it will act as a non return valve as well ) and if needed you could switch it off remotely.
    JB

    LiPo
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Hi Peter,

    No, there isnโ€™t any back pressure on the valves. They seem to work OK at around 7.5v but I donโ€™t have much run time with them yet to know if they will be reliable at this voltage.

    Graham93
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Hi JB,

    Re: How about using something like these remote switches which I use on my HSL and ST to turn pumps and lights etc on/off.

    Yes, that would work but I should have explained the issue clearer. With the pump plumbed on the feed from the pickup as you suggested, the pump will need to run both when the monitors are in use and for cooling the motor/ESC. With they way I have it plumbed currently, the pump doesnโ€™t need to run to cool the motor/ESC.

    If I do find I need to change it round, Iโ€™ll probably put a remote switch together to connect to the throttle channel and the solenoid (fire monitor) channel. The switch could then turn the pump on when needed for either function.

    Graham93

    Hi JB
    monitors
    pickup
    fire monitor
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
    2 months ago by mturpin013 ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Really very interesting article, There are more things to consider than you first think. Its been a help to me as Im just doing this job at the moment.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
    2 months ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    Hi Peter,
    "I cannot get mine to work without applying around 10v. I am a little more optimistic of my setup if they can trigger at 7.4v."
    But you did mention that the solenoids were rated for 12V, 160mA. I also checked them at your source.
    So considering the voltage losses mentioned in my post just now in your Gato blog, due to the ESC and rectifier, you do not have a cat in hell's chance of operating that valve when the pump is reversed. Get rid of the rectifier (not needed) and use an ESC and/or TX setting to raise the max reverse voltage to the same as forward voltage, i.e. 100%. Battery must be 12V. A 3S Lipo should cut it as well.
    At 7.4V you don't even need to waste time trying, not with that valve anyway. Look for a 6V valve.
    Sorry if that sounds a bit blunt but I would have thought that it was pretty obvious that for a solenoid rated at 12V applying 7.4V will only create about 60% of the magnetic field strength needed to overcome the valve return springs. So it would never open.
    Doug.

    Lipo
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
    1 month ago by MouldBuilder ( Lieutenant)
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    Hi Doug.
    I am using a 3s lipo. I was only making a comment about 7.4v. I have now purchased two 6volt valves the same design as before.
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    ๐Ÿ“ Fire Monitors Part 3
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    I have finally fitted the monitors onto the boat.

    Servo mounts were made from aluminium angle. The position of the mounting hole in the forward cabin roof for the 8mm tube (see Part 2) was calculated based on the distance between the servo shaft and the mounting face of the aluminium servo mount plus a couple of mm. for adjustment. This dimension gave the distance of the hole from the bulkhead (CF3) on which the servo was to be mounted. The 8mm tube was glued into roof hole using epoxy. Once the epoxy was set the roof was put in position and a 7mm tube with wet paint on the end was slid down the 8mm mount to make contact with a temporary wooden block attached with double sided tape to the CF3 bulkhead below. The wet paint left a circular mark on the wooden block indicating where the servo should be positioned so that it's shaft would align with the fire monitor rotating column in the roof. The extra couple of mm. allowed for a spacer of suitable thickness to be made and fitted under the servo mount to achieve the correct alignment. The distance between the top of the 8mm tube and the wooden block was also measured allowing the required height of the servo mount to be calculated.

    The same process was followed for the second fire monitor mounted on the engine room roof. In this case, the bulkhead (B4) had to be extended vertically to position the servo close enough to the roof. The servo mounts, and the new timber within the boat still need to be painted.

    I had intended to use the crucifix servo arm to drive the rotating column, as can be seen in one of the photos. Whilst this worked OK, it was difficult to fit the roof and get the four pins at the bottom of the rotating column to engage in the holes in the servo arm. To make this easier the servo arms were adapted by adding a disc of 2mm plasticard with radial slots to engage with the drive pins. This has made fitting each roof easier.

    The servo stretcher worked well, giving 180 degrees of rotation. However, once I saw it in operation, I decided it would be better to increase this to around 240 degrees as I had suspected. As stretching the drive pulse even further would not give more rotation I decided to try modifying the servos instead. This turned out to be easier than expected. Each servo was dismantled and two 3K resistors were added, one to each end of the feedback pot. The value was determined by trial and error. There was plenty of room to accomodate 1/8W resistors within the servo case. You can just see them in the photos. The servos now give the desired rotation without the need for the pulse stretchers.

    I was hoping to include the plumbing details in this post, but I have had a few issues making this work acceptably, so I have had to go back to the drawing board and now have a few more bits and pieces to make. More to follow.....

    boat
    tape
    fire monitor
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
    2 months ago by Rookysailor ( Lieutenant)
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    Nice simple uncomplicated idea Graham, love your idea of using paint on the tube end to find the place to fix, will definitely be using that idea.๐Ÿ˜ณ

    Cheers, Peter (Rooky)
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
    2 months ago by Martin555 ( Rear Admiral)
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    Nice work Graham,
    As soon as you start getting bits and pieces moving it gives you that extra bit of motivation.
    Well done.

    Martin555.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
    2 months ago by jbkiwi ( Captain)
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    Nice bit of work Graham, like the monitor drive idea! simple and effective. Nice servo mod as well.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
    2 months ago by mturpin013 ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Really good result Graham, can you give more detail on the type of servo and what the resisters were (colour code) and where they go (Im non electronics) so could do with basic explanation
    Thanks
    Ps I have just about got my system working, a different take on the solution
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Mike,

    The servos I have used are TowerPro SG90s, but I expect the modification would work on any analogue servo, although the resistor values may need to change.

    Servos have a feedback potentiometer attached to the servo output shaft. This pot feeds a variable voltage into the servo electronics based on the output shaft position. For the SG90 servo this voltage is 1.0V when the control stick is at its minimum setting (= 1mSec pulse width) and 2.35V when the control stick is at its maximum setting (= 2.0mSec pulse width). The servo (and feedback pot) rotate about 100 degrees between these two settings.

    Before modification the pot, which is capable of around 250 degrees rotation, has a total voltage of 3.3v across the ends of the track. Thus 250 degrees of rotation would equate to 3.3V and hence 100 degrees equates to the 1.35V range given above (2.35V-1V). By adding resistors to each end of the potentiometer track, we can reduce the voltage across the track such that the 250 degrees of available rotation equates to a voltage change of only 1.35V. This way the servo has to rotate much further to provide the electronics with the 1V to 2.35V input it is expecting.

    Adding the resistors involved dismantling the servo, cutting the outer two leads to the feedback pot and fitting the 3K resistors between the cut ends. Hope the attached sketches, together with the photos previously posted help.

    Graham93

    pot
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
    2 months ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    Hi Michael,
    "what the resisters were (colour code)"
    The attached chart might help you identify resistors in future.๐Ÿ˜‰
    Graham used 3Kโ„ฆ (3000Ohms) which would be Orange, Black, Red signifying 30 x 100=3000.
    But 3K is not a 'standard' (easy to get value), the nearest would be 3.3K (3300Ohms), which is coded Orange, Orange, Red. In the more common 4 band system. Or Orange, Orange, Black, Brown (330x10) in the more 'exotic' 5 band system.
    The last band is the tolerance band. Usually 1% or 5% these days for for the standard values.
    Happy monitoring,๐Ÿ˜Š
    Cheers, Doug ๐Ÿ˜Ž
    PS Here's a resistor calculator which can help๐Ÿ‘
    https://www.hobby-hour.com/electronics/resistorcalculator.ph...
    https://www.hobby-hour.com/electronics/resistorcalculator.php
    ๐Ÿ”—
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Thanks Doug, I got a bit carried away with the technical bit and missed Michael's request for resistor colour codes. My only excuse is it was late last night ๐Ÿ˜‰

    3k isn't standard in the common E12 series of resistor values, but it is standard in the E24 series. I recently bought a pack of 1000 mixed E24 values in 1/8W size quite cheaply from Ebay as I needed physically smaller resistors for model use. They are so small it is difficult to see the colour code printed on them, but fortunately the carrier strips are printed with the values. A good ohm meter also helps.๐Ÿ˜

    Graham93

    E24
    E12
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
    2 months ago by mturpin013 ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Fantastic ! both of you are always so helpfull, not only to me but others on the site.
    thanks again
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
    2 months ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    Agreed on all counts Graham๐Ÿ‘
    I also bought a box selection of the E24s.
    Now have hundreds of zig MegOhm values I'll probably never use๐Ÿค”
    S'pose I could stack a thousand or so in parallel to make a more useful value ๐Ÿ˜
    Keep up the great work and tutorial. Good stuff.
    Cheers, Doug ๐Ÿ˜Ž

    box selection
    E24s
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Doug,

    I also find I have lots of very low resistor values that Iโ€™m unlikely to ever use. At least with those I can put them in series to make a useful value, and the calculation is much easier๐Ÿคฃ
    Graham93
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    ๐Ÿ“ Fire Monitors Part 2
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    The fire monitor columns are constructed from two lengths of brass tube with various bits added, either for appearance, or for function. The short tube is 8mm o/d and has a brass collar added. This tube will eventually be glued into a hole in the cabin roof. I had to make these tubes a little longer than shown on the plan to ensure that the rotating monitor would not foul the lifebelts on the engine room roof.

    The second, longer tube is 7mm o/d and forms the rotating column. It will slide into the shorter 8mm tube. It carries the water from below deck up to the monitor at the top of the tube. A brass bush is soldered into the top of the tube and the monitor body is soldered into that bush.

    Part way down this tube, a brass collar is soldered to act as a bearing point against the top edge of the larger tube when everything is assembled. The bottom of the 7mm rotating tube was plugged with brass and then drilled and tapped with a female M5 thread.

    The servo coupling is a brass boss with a disc of 0.5mm brass sheet soldered on. This was then turned to be circular before 4 brass pins were added to engage with the servo arm. The top of the boss is threaded with an M5 male thread to screw into the rotating column. A short length of 3mm copper tube is attached to the side of the boos to provide the water connection point. The centre of the M5 screw is drilled out 3mm to allow the water to pass into the rotating column.

    Plasticard was used to add some details to the columns and then the monitor was rigged up on a mock up of the cabin roof and connected to a servo to test out the rotation. An electronic servo pulse stretcher was built to give 180 degrees of rotation for the monitor. I would have liked a little more, but the servo doesn't seem capable of accepting more than 0.5 - 2.5mS pulse width.

    Finally everything was stripped down, de-greased and painted using rattle cans. First with grey etch primer and then with 'Toolbox red' as suggested by Robbob. I have just realised, while writing this that I should not have painted the lower sections of the rotating tubes as these need to slide into the shorter tubes. Ah well, it will be easy enough to scrape that bit of paint off!

    (I'm sorry that the photos are not ordered in the correct sequence for the description. It doesn't seem to matter how I name the photos, or upload them, they just take on a random order of their own. Anyone know a solution to this?)

    tube
    monitor
    etch primer
    servo pulse stretcher
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
    2 months ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    Very nice Graham๐Ÿ‘
    Well thought out.
    Which pulse stretcher did you use?
    Sure I've seen one somewhere that claims 270ยฐ.
    Maybe you need to adjust the end stops in the servo?
    Doug ๐Ÿ˜Ž
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
    2 months ago by Martin555 ( Rear Admiral)
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    Hi Graham,
    you have done a superb job.
    looking forward to seeing it in operation.
    There is another way to get more rotation, and that is to modify the servo to rotate continuously and then add some limit switches.
    That is what i had done to the main gun on my HMS Cottesmore.

    martin555.

    gun
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
    2 months ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    That's one way Martin ๐Ÿ‘
    For the X and Y guns on my destroyer I simply added 3 to 1 reduction gears, to the servo directly connected to X gun, giving ca 270ยฐ end to end.
    Y gun was then driven 1 to 1 by pulley drive.
    The green pulley belt I buy by the metre, cut to length to keep some tension on, and just glue with super glue. Still holding after 25 years or so๐Ÿคž
    Under deck the mountings are ball races with 8mm OD ally tube pressed in.
    The tubes transmit the rotation up to the guns.
    Above deck the gun mounts are the track cases of decades old potentiometers, as once used for volume controls etc. The guns and guards are all wood with a wooden spigot flattened on one side. The ally tube was also appropriately flattened on one side to key the 'plug in' guns.
    X Gun Capt. now has to be careful not to blast the bridge off ๐Ÿ˜ฎ
    "Cor, blimey! WHO threw that?"
    Strangely the Captain has given him special privileges on board๐Ÿ˜‰
    Doug ๐Ÿ˜Ž

    guns
    gun
    Y gun
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
    2 months ago by mturpin013 ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Really nice work Graham, does the copper water inlet pipe below the cabin roof rotate?
    If as I think it does, then having 270 deg really isnโ€™t required or appropriate as the pipe will get twisted and hopefully you will be only spraying water over the side (not back and front as guns do) and only having squrting power on one side of the boat will not really be noticeable.

    boat
    guns
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
    2 months ago by Rookysailor ( Lieutenant)
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    Great idea Graham, another option for your problem of servo travel distance, is a servo morph from component shop, have given a link.๐Ÿ™‚
    https://www.componentshop.co.uk/p96-servomorph.html

    Cheers, Peter (Rooky)
    https://www.componentshop.co.uk/p96-servomorph.html
    ๐Ÿ”—
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Doug,

    The pulse stretcher isn't the problem in this case. There aren't any mechanical end stops on the servo either. If you give it pulse widths over 2.5mS it will do 360 degree and more in uncontrolled rotations without any damage. No stalled motor or stripped gears.
    It seems to be the electronics in the servo that will only sensibly interpret pulse widths between 0.5 and 2.5mS. This range equates to 180 degree rotation. So if I want to get more, I either have to change the servo, or adopt one of the suggestions from you or Martin.

    The pulse stretcher is scratch built. A few lines of assembler code burnt into a baseline PIC10. Very basic, it takes in 1.0 - > 2mS pulse width and outputs 0.5 -> 2.5mS. I even dispensed with a circuit board and simply soldered the wires onto the chip to keep it small. Need to wrap this in heatshrink before it goes in the boat.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Mike,

    Yes, the silicone tube will attach to the copper pipe and hence will have to swivel. I am concerned about this getting into a tangle but I have a few ideas. I wasn't looking for as much as 270 degrees, but a bit more than 180 as shown in the picture. I think I'll stick with 180 for now and get it all installed and working. Can always upgrade it later if I'm bored!
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Thanks Peter,

    Component Shop have some great products for this sort of thing, and that device would give a good range of control. Being a retired electronics engineer I like to keep my hand in and make whatever I can in terms of controls. Makes it all a bit more interesting.
    Regards
    Graham

    device
    products
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
    2 months ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    "The pulse stretcher is scratch built."
    Excellent job Graham๐Ÿ‘
    I've been looking at some stretcher circuits using the good old 555/556 timer chips.

    @ Rooky:
    I too thought of the Action Electronics Pulse Stretcher, but it only goes out to 160ยฐ end to end๐Ÿค”
    Happy stretching folks ๐Ÿ˜Š
    Cheers, Doug ๐Ÿ˜Ž

    Action Electronics Pulse Stretcher
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
    2 months ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    "Being a retired electronics engineer I like to keep my hand in and make whatever I can in terms of controls. Makes it all a bit more interesting."
    Copy that Graham๐Ÿ‘ Welcome to the club ๐Ÿ˜‰
    Doug ๐Ÿ˜Ž
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
    2 months ago by robbob ( Captain)
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    Hi Graham.
    I have to say that they look really true to the originals, have you done a 'hydraulic' test yet?
    Do use some clamps on the water connections though, you don't want them coming off and flooding the compartment ๐Ÿ˜ฎ.
    I think Mike Turpin has a point about the servo travel but your home brew servo stretcher looks very useful indeed.
    Great work๐Ÿ‘,
    Rob.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
    2 months ago by jbkiwi ( Captain)
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    RE- Yes, the silicone tube will attach to the copper pipe and hence will have to swivel

    Hi Graham, you could, if you have room in the cabin, just give the tube some slack and hang it from the roof with a thin rubber band, to tension it towards the end of the servo throw. This might keep it from hanging down and getting caught up. Thick wall silicone tube will stop any kinks. Alternatively if your inlet tube was facing down, the silicone tube could loop down then up over the rubber band and down again which would give you a better rotation of the silicone tube and be tensioned up out of the way.
    JB

    tube
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
    2 months ago by jbkiwi ( Captain)
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    Really nice job!
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Thanks Rob,

    Yes, I did try them before I painted them and was pleased with the water throw. If I was to make them again, I think I would arrange for the nozzle to screw on to the front of the monitor to allow it to be dismantled and flushed out. Iโ€™m going to fit a filter in the pipework but I suspect Iโ€™m going to have problems with blockages on the lake.

    Good point about securing the pipework. Would hate to watch the boat slowly sinking in the middle of the lake.

    Regards
    Graham

    monitor
    filter
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Thanks JB,

    There is plenty of room, although I am gradually filling it up. I like the elastic suggestion and plan to fit an elbow to the copper tube inlet to turn the tube down. I just need to make sure it clears the servo while rotating.

    Regards
    Graham
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
    2 months ago by mturpin013 ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Have you thought of using a sail servo. I'm just about to trial my system, (I just finished painting my efforts which will be in my blog shortly.) Looking at this type of servo it seems this one just rotates 360 degrees.
    Or have I got this wrong? I'm just about to purchase one, so thoughts please before I do.
    https://hobbyking.com/en_us/sw5513-4ma-sailwinch-servo-10-63kg-55g-0-9.html
    ๐Ÿ”—
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Mike,

    No I havenโ€™t. I donโ€™t have any experience with sail winches. It looks like they will certainly rotate more than 180 degrees. I think the one you have found will do 4 x 360 degrees. You would need to be careful not to tie everything in knots with that.

    Found the attached video which shows the rotation. It looks like the servo takes a little while to complete its rotation which could make it a rotating monitor difficult to control.

    Regards
    Graham
    The HS-785HB Sail Winch Multi-Rotation Servo Explained
    โ–ถ๏ธ

    monitor
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    ๐Ÿ“ Fire Monitors Part 1
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    I want to have working fire monitors on the boat, so decided to make them in brass. I also want them to swivel. To give the right appearance, the water needs to pass through the vertical support column into the body of the monitor. I don't want a separate tube from the body of the monitor going through the cabin roof as it would not look accurate, and will likely restrict the rotation of the monitor.

    The body of the monitor is made from a short length of 6mm brass tube with two turned end caps. The front cap, the nozzle, was turned and filed to a suitable shape on the lathe. The inside is drilled out as much as I dared to reduce the weight. The nozzle outlet was initially drilled 0.6mm dia. During initial trials with the pump connected this was opened up to 0.85mm dia. to give an increased water flow without having any significant effect on the throw of the jet.

    The rear end cap is also drilled out internally to reduce the weight. Two 3mm holes are drilled at 45 degrees at the rear of the cap to attach the curved copper pipes which will carry water from the vertical support column. Bending the 3mm copper tube to shape was tricky, it is a tight bend but I managed it without it collapsing too much. The tubes will need a bit of cleaning up before painting.

    The connection to the vertical column is formed as a T piece from two short pieced of brass tube. These were soldered together using silver solder for strength. Two small turned flanges connect the copper tubes to this T piece.

    The handles were cut from brass sheet with a length of 1.5mm brass rod as the cross piece. All the parts were soft soldered together. The completed monitor body was connected to the pump and tried out. One of the soldered joints was leaking and had to be remade. Having drilled out the nozzle to 0.85mm dia. the resulting water jet looks effective with a throw of around 2-3 feet.

    boat
    monitor
    lathe
    silver solder
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 1
    2 months ago by robbob ( Captain)
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    Hi Graham.
    Your fire monitors are excellent work as they are the first 'working' ones I've seen that actually look like they should. I think that the 'plinth' that it will sit on will present it's own problems with articulation and plumbing but you've cracked the hardest bit ๐Ÿ‘
    It was a pleasure meeting you at our club exhibition in St.Albans at the weekend and discussing our FireBoats, I know that you travelled a long way to see the show.
    I have put a report about the show on the club website with a video that I produced that has some shots of my Fireboat on the water and the Thames Police Launch on display.

    Keep up the great work.
    Rob.
    https://stalbansmes.com/
    ๐Ÿ”—
    SADMES Exhibition Video Sept 2019
    โ–ถ๏ธ

    fire monitors
    Fireboat
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 1
    2 months ago by jbkiwi ( Captain)
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    Very nice effort and a clever idea with the scale water supply.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 1
    2 months ago by Rookysailor ( Lieutenant)
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    A wonderful piece of modeling Graham, would love to make a pair for my fireboat, if only I had the ability
    to produce such items.๐Ÿ˜

    cheers, Peter
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 1
    2 months ago by Martin555 ( Rear Admiral)
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    Nice video Robbob,
    A little something for everyone,
    Thank you for posting it.

    Martin555.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 1
    2 months ago by Martin555 ( Rear Admiral)
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    Lovely bit of engineering,
    Excellent workmanship.
    Keep it up.

    Martin555.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 1
    2 months ago by mturpin013 ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Very nice piece of work, Its funny that I am also doing exactly the same job at present.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 1
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Rob,

    Good to meet you on Saturday and to see your boat for real rather than just looking at the photos. We enjoyed the event at St Albans. It was great to see so many activities for the youngsters to have a go. Nice video of the boat. I especially like the on-board clips. I picked up some brass rounds at the show that will be used for parts for the fire monitor support columns.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 1
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Peter,

    The mini lathe has made all the difference to being able to make things like this. I couldnโ€™t attempt it without it. I havenโ€™t had it long, and Iโ€™m still a bit of a novice with it. What you canโ€™t see in the blog is how much time it has taken to make these bits, and how many spoiled attempts there have been.

    I think the rotating support columns, together with the water connection will be quite a challenge.

    lathe
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 1
    2 months ago by Rookysailor ( Lieutenant)
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    Excellent video Rob, very interesting items, must think about going to the engineering show next January.๐Ÿ˜

    cheers, Peter

    items
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    ๐Ÿ“ Midships
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    When the boat was fitted with a diesel there was no deck between the forward cabin and the engine room. This was to allow room for the engine cylinder head. So the first task was to construct a planked deck to fill the space. The opportunity was also taken to add the cabin door detail, complete with dummy hinges and door knobs.

    The davit was constructed from plasticard and painted gunmetal grey. Basic height and reach dimensions for this were taken from the plan. Details were added based on photos found on this site.

    The scramble nets were made using black woven cord. This was laid out on a piece of scrap plywood using panel pins to space the cord into the desired net structure. The cord crossover joints were then glued with superglue. This didn't work well. The joints were not strong, some having to be re-glued. The dried glue caused a white stain on the cord. This was disguised with permanent black marker pen. A bigger issue was that the cord had absorbed the glue which wicked along the length from the joints making the net inflexible in parts. It would not roll up neatly and looked a mess. Fortunately I had enough cord left to make replacement nets. This time, each of the 100 crossover joints was sewn with black cotton thread. This took some time but the joints are now strong and the completed net is fully flexible.

    This post brings us up to present day with the refit. There is still more to do including the fire monitors and spotlight. Just to show it does sail, I've included a photo of it out on the lake yesterday. It is only running at approx. 1/4 throttle which doesn't show how it planes. I haven't yet mastered driving it at full speed while simultaneously taking photos!

    marker pen
    fire monitors
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Midships
    2 months ago by Martin555 ( Rear Admiral)
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    You are doing an excellent job Graham.
    You must be pleased with the results so far.
    Keep up the good work.

    Martin555.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Midships
    2 months ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    What a transformation๐Ÿ˜ฎ Hat off Sir ๐Ÿ‘
    ๐Ÿ˜Ž
    BTW Like the new planked deck, especially the edging ๐Ÿ‘
    Solves my problem with my Sea Scout so I'm unashamedly gonna copy that ๐Ÿ˜‰
    Even an old sea dog like me can learn new tricks ๐Ÿ˜Š
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Midships
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Thanks Martin and thanks to everyone else for the positive feedback and encouragement.

    Yes, I am pleased with the results so far. It looks a lot better, and sails a lot better than it did before the refit. Now itโ€™s time to get on to the working monitors and searchlight.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Midships
    2 months ago by marky ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Really nice Graham,don't know how I missed this earlier.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Midships
    2 months ago by jbkiwi ( Captain)
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    Brilliant rebuild, love the detail, looking forward to a video.
    JB
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    ๐Ÿ“ Rear Deck
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    The rear deck gives plenty of opportunity for adding some model detail. The original cockpit floor was plain painted grey with a 'power bulge' to cover the 1970's rudder servo. A new smaller servo and servo mount were installed to allow a flat floor to replace the original power bulge version. The new floor has been planked with lime strips grouted with 0.5mm black plasticard. The central hatch is easily removable to check that the servo compartment is dry. It is held in place with magnets.

    The two foam tanks are made from 2mm ply with mahogany trim and pieces of a commercial grating fixed on top. The tanks are also held in place with magnets.

    The ladders are 2mm mahogany with the runners glued and pinned to the sides with brass pins. The ladders are mounted using M1.6 threaded rod glued to the bottom of the ladders and passing through the cockpit floor. Foot pads had to be added to the bottom of the ladders to provide a sufficiently large fixing point for the threaded rod. Springs on the underside of the floor hold the ladders in place with the top of the ladders simply pressing against the bulkhead. This allows the cockpit floor to be removed with the ladders in one piece.

    The towhook is made from plasticard, with a few details added with brass rod and M1.6 nuts. The towhook stays are also plasticard. They locate into brass bushes in the cockpit floor with the top end held with a locating pin and two small magnets.

    The hose fittings were turned from brass using Robbob's drawings with the dimensions scaled down to 1/16th scale. The hoses are the normal coiled wire covered with black heatshrink. A brass hook at the rear of the cockpit holds the hoses in place. I was concerned that this was not sufficient in itself and do not want to loose these hoses in the lake, so black elastic cords were looped through the tops of the foam tanks. These loops pass round the hoses and hold them securely. The hose bulkhead fitting has a 5mm round magnet set into it's rear face which holds it in position against a similar magnet set into the bulkhead.

    Using magnets for fixing the foam tanks, the towhook stays and the hose bulkhead fitting allows them all to be quickly removed thus allowing the cockpit floor to also be removed for access to the steering servo.

    My thanks to Robbob and MTurpin103 for their excellent Crash Tender blogs. Much of this work on the rear deck has been based on their blogs.

    hatch
    rod
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Rear Deck
    2 months ago by Martin555 ( Rear Admiral)
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    Hi Graham,
    WOW! What a difference.
    I would not recognise that as the same boat.
    Excellent workmanship.
    Well done.

    Martin555.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Rear Deck
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Thanks Martin. It has been a challenge, but it has kept me out of mischief for the past few months. Not finished yet, but Iโ€™m already planning the next project. Trying to be good though and making sure I finish this job before I start the next one...
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Rear Deck
    2 months ago by robbob ( Captain)
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    Hi Graham.
    I'm pleased and flattered ๐Ÿ˜Š that you have been able to take inspiration from my build blog, I'm sure Mike Turpin is too.
    Excellent workmanship too, the first two 'photos 'before and after' are testament to your abilities.
    Kind Regards.
    Rob.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Rear Deck
    2 months ago by mturpin013 ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Really good work, I wish I could go at that speed, Im hoping to have mine finished for next summer๐Ÿคž
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Rear Deck
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Mike,

    This has taken most of my spare time over the past three months, indeed I have really spent more time on it than I should have, with many domestic jobs not getting done. And I havenโ€™t had the distraction of having to build a boat for my grandson like you have. He wants to sail this one, which Iโ€™m not sure is a good idea ๐Ÿ˜‰

    boat
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Rear Deck
    2 months ago by Rookysailor ( Lieutenant)
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    What a terrific job you have done Graham, love the towhook.
    What paint did you use to get that finish? it looks like it's made of metal, Brill๐Ÿ‘

    Peter (Rooky)๐Ÿ˜
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Rear Deck
    2 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Peter,

    Thanks. The paint is brush applied Tamiya acrylic in Gunmetal Grey X10 applied over grey etch primer from a rattle can. Iโ€™m pleased with the effect. It is thin, goes on easily without obscuring detail and dries quickly. I have found that it needs frequent stirring otherwise you end up with a plain dark grey finish.

    brush
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Rear Deck
    2 months ago by jbkiwi ( Captain)
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    Brilliant resto job, fantastic detail!
    JB
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Rear Deck
    2 months ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    "I have found that it needs frequent stirring otherwise you end up with a plain dark grey finish. "
    Natch! Otherwise all the metal particles sink quickly to the bottom again.
    I have the same aggro with Hammerite and some new (expensive ๐Ÿค”) chrome paint I am experimenting with.
    Nice job Graham๐Ÿ‘
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Rear Deck
    2 months ago by MouldBuilder ( Lieutenant)
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    Really nice detailing. Looks superb.
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    ๐Ÿ“ Wheelhouse
    3 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Having completed the basic hull repaint, it was time to get on to some of the more interesting details. Many of the deck fittings, ventilators, Samson post, etc were sourced from the shop on this website. These plastic fittings were primed with a grey etch primer and then top coated with Tamiya Gunmetal or Humbrol white enamel as appropriate.

    Being the 1/16th scale Crash Tender, I don't have the benefit of having a set of white metal fittings. I wasn't able to find many off the shelf fittings in 1/16th scale so decided to scratch build them instead. It makes the job more interesting, if a bit fiddly, ....... and very time consuming!

    The first task was to replace the fixed wheelhouse roof with a removeable one. This gives access to the interior of the wheelhouse for fitting lighting, new windows, and the searchlight servo. The window frames were cut from 1mm plasticard and painted silver.

    The mast was built from brass, including making the pulleys. A 5mm white LED is fitted to the top, with a little white painted brass cap to make it look the part. Rigging is 1.5mm elastic cord. I think this is a little thick and 1mm might look better. I still have to source the ensign to fly from the mast. There is a pulley in place ready for it.

    The port, starboard and wheelhouse roof navigation lights were all constructed using plasticard and fitted with 3mm LEDs. The aerial on the roof of the wheelhouse is made from brass based on the details given by Mike (mturpin013) in his blog.

    The boathooks were also scratchbuilt from brass. I thought they would look better than the white metal ones available on eBay. For the "shepherd's crook" hook, the brass rod was first tapered by filing and sanding before being bent to the appropriate shape. The other hook was formed by silver soldering a brass cross piece onto a tapered shaft. Both hooks were formed on the end of a long length of brass rod to make it easier to handle them. Once complete, a short section of rod behind the hook was turned down to 1mm dia to form a spigot for mounting on the poles. The poles were carved from mahogany.

    With all these details in place it is really beginning to look the part. Next up the rear deck.

    etch primer
    pulley
    window frames
    LED
    LEDs
    Tamiya Gunmetal
    brass cross piece
    rod
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Wheelhouse
    3 months ago by Martin555 ( Rear Admiral)
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    Nice work, well done.
    Keep up the good work.

    Martin555.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Wheelhouse
    3 months ago by jbkiwi ( Captain)
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    Nice job on the parts, sometimes easier to make your own bits, - nothing worse than ordering o/s, waiting a month then finding the part is the wrong size. Bit of a gamble sometimes. Not so bad if you build to a common scale and parts are ready made to suit.
    I think a bit of personal input adds to the boats character, as buying too many bits can make your model partly someone elses' work, (unless there is no other option).
    JB
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Wheelhouse
    3 months ago by mturpin013 ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Coming together nicely, I agree itโ€™s often more interesting and rewarding to make your own parts.
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    ๐Ÿ“ Chine strakes and hull painting
    3 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Following the initial trial, I fitted chine strakes. These were steamed, bent to shape and left to dry. The original hull painting (humbrol enamel) was rubbed down and the new strakes fitted with epoxy and brass pins. I hope they will hold on the old paint surface. The gunwale strakes were also replaced as these had suffered from some damage over the years.

    I also took the opportunity to replace the old cooling water outlet with something more to scale. Two exhaust ports were made using a couple of white metal portholes adapted with brass tubes which pass through the transom. The cooling water is fed out through both of these. I know this is not strictly accurate, as there should be a separate, smaller outlet for the engine cooling water, but I'm not looking to achieve 100% accuracy, just something that looks a lot more like scale than the original 45 year old model. I might revisit this at a later date.

    The hull was painted using rattle cans, first a grey etch primer, then the colours followed by the decals and finally a clear lacquer coat. The hull was left to dry for two weeks and then it was back onto the water. As this is my only boat, I'm trying to carry out the refit in a way that allows me to get onto the water as often as I can.

    The improvement in performance with the new chine strakes was remarkable. It now planes easily and turns quickly. With the diesel fitted it was reluctant to plane, and it could be difficult to turn which was due I think to the torque on the larger prop plus the missing strakes. What a difference hindsight (and this website!) makes. ๐Ÿ˜€ Another improvement was that the boat is now dry inside. It always used to fill the rear cockpit and the centre cabin with water but that is no longer the case. The two O-rings I added to the top and bottom of the rudder shaft may also have helped with this.

    Returning from this outing I was unhappy to find that the foam protectors on the boat stand had marked the lacquer finish. Despite having left it for two weeks, it was still soft enough to be marked. Not sure if you can see the damage in the photo. Another detail I will have to revisit later.

    I noticed that the motor was running a little warm so the opportunity was taken to replace the aluminium plate motor mount with one made from copper sheet with a copper tube silver soldered onto it. This has been plumbed into the ESC cooling water circuit and now keeps the motor reasonably cool.

    The deck was then masked and painted with a textured finish followed by brush applied humbrol enamel. I found a tin of grey enamel in the garage, which must date from the original build, and it was still useable!

    boat
    copper tube silver
    grey etch primer
    brush
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Chine strakes and hull painting
    3 months ago by robbob ( Captain)
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    Hi Graham.
    I'm pleased to see that you have started a 'refit' blog, and from what you've posted so far shows a remarkable improvement. The addition of the chine strakes have clearly been a worthwhile addition too.
    I also had a similar issue with the Halfords gloss lacquer coat being very 'soft' for a long time and easily marked, the hardening process does seems to take some time and so I did have to flat down the gloss lacquer on my boat and re-finish it too.

    Body repairers use an infra red lamp to dry and cure base coat and clear coat finishes before they polish it to a high gloss finish as I found out when I had a small repair done on my car by a mobile 'Chips Away' type repair company.
    They advised me that the drying/curing process does take time if the finish isn't 'baked' in a paint shop spray booth/oven.

    Curiously the red anti fouling on mine was finished with a satin lacquer and didn't suffer from any such problems and the hull sits on some neoprene pads on the stand with no ill effects.
    Keep up the great work๐Ÿ‘.
    Robbob.

    car
    boat
    lamp
    paint shop spray booth
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Chine strakes and hull painting
    3 months ago by Martin555 ( Rear Admiral)
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    What a difference a clean and a fresh coat of paint makes.
    Good work, well done.

    Martin555.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Chine strakes and hull painting
    3 months ago by jbkiwi ( Captain)
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    Paint looks really good. Boat won't know itself!
    JB

    Boat
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Chine strakes and hull painting
    3 months ago by Graham93 ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
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    Looks better in the photos than it does in reality. I donโ€™t like rattle cans. The original paint job, hand painted with Humbrol enamel was much better when it was first done. But you are right, it does look a whole lot better than it did a few months ago.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Chine strakes and hull painting
    3 months ago by mturpin013 ( Lieutenant Commander)
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    Graham, the boat is looking great, as others have said a new coat always improves things. I can also confirm the issue with spray tins (Acrylic) as the boat Ive just finiashed for my grandson had the same issue. Im am spraying my crash tender with commercial cellulose using compressor and spray gun and although the drying time is also an issue in terms of time after a couple of weeks it hard enough to treat with flatting compond to achieve that polished finish

    boat
    compressor
    spray gun
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Chine strakes and hull painting
    3 months ago by jbkiwi ( Captain)
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    I like your exhaust treatment. I was trying to find a similar suitable surround for the pipes on my ST, but might have to substitute small drilled washers instead, (a when I can be bothered job)
    JB

    washers
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Chine strakes and hull painting
    2 months ago by RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    "Body repairers use an infra red lamp to dry and cure base coat and clear coat finishes before they polish it to a high gloss finish"
    I use a couple of 300W halogen lamps to speed up the process Rob.
    Followed by a two stage polishing process using pro polishing pastes from the auto branch.
    Tricks I learned when restoring old bangers in my otherwise misspent youth๐Ÿ˜‰
    Details in my Sea Scout Jessica restoration Blog.
    The major ingredient is generous dollops of PATIENCE!!
    Cheers, Doug ๐Ÿ˜Ž

    lamp
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