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๐ฌ Re: 34 inch Crash Tender refit
5 years ago by ๐ฉ๐ช RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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"I find I enjoy the building more than the sailing. After all, all it can do is go round and round, faster or slower!"
Heartily agree Graham ๐ That's why my first ship build was a destroyer, thought it offered good possibilities for special functions. What happened? At 15 I had no resources for RC to even drive it round in 'wobbly' circles ๐ค She was free running and if she conked out Mum and I would stretch yards of Grandads fishing line across the boating lake at Radnor Park in Folkestone to haul her back in again! Caused some hilarity amongst the park strollers and littl' ol' ladies sitting on benches around the pond. Highly 'embrassing'! ๐ Some twenty years later, after moving to Germany and doubling my salary, RC was added along with traversing gun turret, NAV lights, flashing signal lamps, smoking funnel, Whoop Whoop siren and fog horn and an experimental towing winch. The latter since landed- a) I needed a weight like a can of baked beans to pull the winch hook out b) The stern of a destroyer is much too low to get the hook on to any other boat. Of course I discovered that on sea trials after spending time building my own winch controller๐ค Here endeth the night's ramblings of the old sea dog. Thank you for your patience ๐ ๐ ▲
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Remove Ads ๐ฌ Re: 34 inch Crash Tender refit
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Well said Fleet.
It is this site that keeps me going. Martin555. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: 34 inch Crash Tender refit
5 years ago by ๐ฉ๐ช RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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"Yes, the enthusiasm to dust it off and refit it came from finding this website."
Then we have reached our objective Graham ๐ to paraphrase my NAVI! ๐ Nice work ๐ PS I never managed to drive in circles, at best wobbly ellipses ๐ค Maybe operating next to the Biergarten had something to do with it! ๐๐ ▲
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๐ฌ Re: 34 inch Crash Tender refit
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Yes, the enthusiasm to dust it off and refit it came from finding this website.
I find I enjoy the building more than the sailing. After all, all it can do is go round and round, faster or slower! Going to add working/rotating monitors and searchlight eventually, then it will do more than just go round in circles ๐ ▲
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๐ฌ Re: 34 inch Crash Tender refit
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง tidtug ( Chief Petty Officer 2nd Class)
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Looks lovely after its refit has it give you a new burst of enthusiasm for the hobby?
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๐ฌ Re: 34 inch Crash Tender refit
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง mturpin013 ( Admiral)
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Good to see another boat back on the water
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๐ฌ Re: Chine strakes and hull painting
5 years ago by ๐ฉ๐ช RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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"Body repairers use an infra red lamp to dry and cure base coat and clear coat finishes before they polish it to a high gloss finish"
I use a couple of 300W halogen lamps to speed up the process Rob. Followed by a two stage polishing process using pro polishing pastes from the auto branch. Tricks I learned when restoring old bangers in my otherwise misspent youth๐ Details in my Sea Scout Jessica restoration Blog. The major ingredient is generous dollops of PATIENCE!! Cheers, Doug ๐ ▲
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Remove Ads ๐ฌ Re: Chine strakes and hull painting
5 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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I like your exhaust treatment. I was trying to find a similar suitable surround for the pipes on my ST, but might have to substitute small drilled washers instead, (a when I can be bothered job)
JB ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Chine strakes and hull painting
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง mturpin013 ( Admiral)
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Graham, the boat is looking great, as others have said a new coat always improves things. I can also confirm the issue with spray tins (Acrylic) as the boat Ive just finiashed for my grandson had the same issue. Im am spraying my crash tender with commercial cellulose using compressor and spray gun and although the drying time is also an issue in terms of time after a couple of weeks it hard enough to treat with flatting compond to achieve that polished finish
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๐ฌ Re: Chine strakes and hull painting
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Looks better in the photos than it does in reality. I donโt like rattle cans. The original paint job, hand painted with Humbrol enamel was much better when it was first done. But you are right, it does look a whole lot better than it did a few months ago.
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๐ฌ Re: Chine strakes and hull painting
5 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Paint looks really good. Boat won't know itself!
JB ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Chine strakes and hull painting
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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What a difference a clean and a fresh coat of paint makes.
Good work, well done. Martin555. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Chine strakes and hull painting
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง robbob ( Admiral)
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Hi Graham.
I'm pleased to see that you have started a 'refit' blog, and from what you've posted so far shows a remarkable improvement. The addition of the chine strakes have clearly been a worthwhile addition too. I also had a similar issue with the Halfords gloss lacquer coat being very 'soft' for a long time and easily marked, the hardening process does seems to take some time and so I did have to flat down the gloss lacquer on my boat and re-finish it too. Body repairers use an infra red lamp to dry and cure base coat and clear coat finishes before they polish it to a high gloss finish as I found out when I had a small repair done on my car by a mobile 'Chips Away' type repair company. They advised me that the drying/curing process does take time if the finish isn't 'baked' in a paint shop spray booth/oven. Curiously the red anti fouling on mine was finished with a satin lacquer and didn't suffer from any such problems and the hull sits on some neoprene pads on the stand with no ill effects. Keep up the great work๐. Robbob. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Wheelhouse
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง mturpin013 ( Admiral)
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Coming together nicely, I agree itโs often more interesting and rewarding to make your own parts.
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Remove Ads ๐ฌ Re: Wheelhouse
5 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Nice job on the parts, sometimes easier to make your own bits, - nothing worse than ordering o/s, waiting a month then finding the part is the wrong size. Bit of a gamble sometimes. Not so bad if you build to a common scale and parts are ready made to suit.
I think a bit of personal input adds to the boats character, as buying too many bits can make your model partly someone elses' work, (unless there is no other option). JB ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Wheelhouse
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Nice work, well done.
Keep up the good work. Martin555. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Rear Deck
5 years ago by ๐ญ๐บ MouldBuilder ( Vice Admiral)
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Really nice detailing. Looks superb.
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Remove Ads ๐ฌ Re: Rear Deck
5 years ago by ๐ฉ๐ช RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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"I have found that it needs frequent stirring otherwise you end up with a plain dark grey finish. "
Natch! Otherwise all the metal particles sink quickly to the bottom again. I have the same aggro with Hammerite and some new (expensive ๐ค) chrome paint I am experimenting with. Nice job Graham๐ ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Rear Deck
5 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Brilliant resto job, fantastic detail!
JB ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Rear Deck
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Peter,
Thanks. The paint is brush applied Tamiya acrylic in Gunmetal Grey X10 applied over grey etch primer from a rattle can. Iโm pleased with the effect. It is thin, goes on easily without obscuring detail and dries quickly. I have found that it needs frequent stirring otherwise you end up with a plain dark grey finish. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Rear Deck
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Rookysailor ( Commodore)
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What a terrific job you have done Graham, love the towhook.
What paint did you use to get that finish? it looks like it's made of metal, Brill๐ Peter (Rooky)๐ ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Rear Deck
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Mike,
This has taken most of my spare time over the past three months, indeed I have really spent more time on it than I should have, with many domestic jobs not getting done. And I havenโt had the distraction of having to build a boat for my grandson like you have. He wants to sail this one, which Iโm not sure is a good idea ๐ ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Rear Deck
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง mturpin013 ( Admiral)
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Really good work, I wish I could go at that speed, Im hoping to have mine finished for next summer๐ค
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๐ฌ Re: Rear Deck
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง robbob ( Admiral)
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Hi Graham.
I'm pleased and flattered ๐ that you have been able to take inspiration from my build blog, I'm sure Mike Turpin is too. Excellent workmanship too, the first two 'photos 'before and after' are testament to your abilities. Kind Regards. Rob. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Rear Deck
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Thanks Martin. It has been a challenge, but it has kept me out of mischief for the past few months. Not finished yet, but Iโm already planning the next project. Trying to be good though and making sure I finish this job before I start the next one...
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๐ฌ Re: Rear Deck
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Graham,
WOW! What a difference. I would not recognise that as the same boat. Excellent workmanship. Well done. Martin555. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Midships
5 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Brilliant rebuild, love the detail, looking forward to a video.
JB ▲
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Remove Ads ๐ฌ Re: Midships
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง marky ( Commodore)
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Really nice Graham,don't know how I missed this earlier.
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๐ฌ Re: Midships
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Thanks Martin and thanks to everyone else for the positive feedback and encouragement.
Yes, I am pleased with the results so far. It looks a lot better, and sails a lot better than it did before the refit. Now itโs time to get on to the working monitors and searchlight. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Midships
5 years ago by ๐ฉ๐ช RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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What a transformation๐ฎ Hat off Sir ๐
๐ BTW Like the new planked deck, especially the edging ๐ Solves my problem with my Sea Scout so I'm unashamedly gonna copy that ๐ Even an old sea dog like me can learn new tricks ๐ ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Midships
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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You are doing an excellent job Graham.
You must be pleased with the results so far. Keep up the good work. Martin555. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 1
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Rookysailor ( Commodore)
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Excellent video Rob, very interesting items, must think about going to the engineering show next January.๐
cheers, Peter ▲
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Remove Ads ๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 1
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Peter,
The mini lathe has made all the difference to being able to make things like this. I couldnโt attempt it without it. I havenโt had it long, and Iโm still a bit of a novice with it. What you canโt see in the blog is how much time it has taken to make these bits, and how many spoiled attempts there have been. I think the rotating support columns, together with the water connection will be quite a challenge. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 1
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Rob,
Good to meet you on Saturday and to see your boat for real rather than just looking at the photos. We enjoyed the event at St Albans. It was great to see so many activities for the youngsters to have a go. Nice video of the boat. I especially like the on-board clips. I picked up some brass rounds at the show that will be used for parts for the fire monitor support columns. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 1
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง mturpin013 ( Admiral)
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Very nice piece of work, Its funny that I am also doing exactly the same job at present.
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 1
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Lovely bit of engineering,
Excellent workmanship. Keep it up. Martin555. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 1
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Nice video Robbob,
A little something for everyone, Thank you for posting it. Martin555. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 1
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Rookysailor ( Commodore)
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A wonderful piece of modeling Graham, would love to make a pair for my fireboat, if only I had the ability
to produce such items.๐ cheers, Peter ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 1
5 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Very nice effort and a clever idea with the scale water supply.
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 1
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง robbob ( Admiral)
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Hi Graham.
Your fire monitors are excellent work as they are the first 'working' ones I've seen that actually look like they should. I think that the 'plinth' that it will sit on will present it's own problems with articulation and plumbing but you've cracked the hardest bit ๐ It was a pleasure meeting you at our club exhibition in St.Albans at the weekend and discussing our FireBoats, I know that you travelled a long way to see the show. I have put a report about the show on the club website with a video that I produced that has some shots of my Fireboat on the water and the Thames Police Launch on display. Keep up the great work. Rob. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Mike,
No I havenโt. I donโt have any experience with sail winches. It looks like they will certainly rotate more than 180 degrees. I think the one you have found will do 4 x 360 degrees. You would need to be careful not to tie everything in knots with that. Found the attached video which shows the rotation. It looks like the servo takes a little while to complete its rotation which could make it a rotating monitor difficult to control. Regards Graham ▲
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Remove Ads ๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง mturpin013 ( Admiral)
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Have you thought of using a sail servo. I'm just about to trial my system, (I just finished painting my efforts which will be in my blog shortly.) Looking at this type of servo it seems this one just rotates 360 degrees.
Or have I got this wrong? I'm just about to purchase one, so thoughts please before I do. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Thanks JB,
There is plenty of room, although I am gradually filling it up. I like the elastic suggestion and plan to fit an elbow to the copper tube inlet to turn the tube down. I just need to make sure it clears the servo while rotating. Regards Graham ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Thanks Rob,
Yes, I did try them before I painted them and was pleased with the water throw. If I was to make them again, I think I would arrange for the nozzle to screw on to the front of the monitor to allow it to be dismantled and flushed out. Iโm going to fit a filter in the pipework but I suspect Iโm going to have problems with blockages on the lake. Good point about securing the pipework. Would hate to watch the boat slowly sinking in the middle of the lake. Regards Graham ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
5 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Really nice job!
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
5 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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RE- Yes, the silicone tube will attach to the copper pipe and hence will have to swivel
Hi Graham, you could, if you have room in the cabin, just give the tube some slack and hang it from the roof with a thin rubber band, to tension it towards the end of the servo throw. This might keep it from hanging down and getting caught up. Thick wall silicone tube will stop any kinks. Alternatively if your inlet tube was facing down, the silicone tube could loop down then up over the rubber band and down again which would give you a better rotation of the silicone tube and be tensioned up out of the way. JB ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง robbob ( Admiral)
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Hi Graham.
I have to say that they look really true to the originals, have you done a 'hydraulic' test yet? Do use some clamps on the water connections though, you don't want them coming off and flooding the compartment ๐ฎ. I think Mike Turpin has a point about the servo travel but your home brew servo stretcher looks very useful indeed. Great work๐, Rob. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
5 years ago by ๐ฉ๐ช RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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"Being a retired electronics engineer I like to keep my hand in and make whatever I can in terms of controls. Makes it all a bit more interesting."
Copy that Graham๐ Welcome to the club ๐ Doug ๐ ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
5 years ago by ๐ฉ๐ช RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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"The pulse stretcher is scratch built."
Excellent job Graham๐ I've been looking at some stretcher circuits using the good old 555/556 timer chips. @ Rooky: I too thought of the Action Electronics Pulse Stretcher, but it only goes out to 160ยฐ end to end๐ค Happy stretching folks ๐ Cheers, Doug ๐ ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Thanks Peter,
Component Shop have some great products for this sort of thing, and that device would give a good range of control. Being a retired electronics engineer I like to keep my hand in and make whatever I can in terms of controls. Makes it all a bit more interesting. Regards Graham ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Mike,
Yes, the silicone tube will attach to the copper pipe and hence will have to swivel. I am concerned about this getting into a tangle but I have a few ideas. I wasn't looking for as much as 270 degrees, but a bit more than 180 as shown in the picture. I think I'll stick with 180 for now and get it all installed and working. Can always upgrade it later if I'm bored! ▲
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Remove Ads ๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Doug,
The pulse stretcher isn't the problem in this case. There aren't any mechanical end stops on the servo either. If you give it pulse widths over 2.5mS it will do 360 degree and more in uncontrolled rotations without any damage. No stalled motor or stripped gears. It seems to be the electronics in the servo that will only sensibly interpret pulse widths between 0.5 and 2.5mS. This range equates to 180 degree rotation. So if I want to get more, I either have to change the servo, or adopt one of the suggestions from you or Martin. The pulse stretcher is scratch built. A few lines of assembler code burnt into a baseline PIC10. Very basic, it takes in 1.0 - > 2mS pulse width and outputs 0.5 -> 2.5mS. I even dispensed with a circuit board and simply soldered the wires onto the chip to keep it small. Need to wrap this in heatshrink before it goes in the boat. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Rookysailor ( Commodore)
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Great idea Graham, another option for your problem of servo travel distance, is a servo morph from component shop, have given a link.๐
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง mturpin013 ( Admiral)
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Really nice work Graham, does the copper water inlet pipe below the cabin roof rotate?
If as I think it does, then having 270 deg really isnโt required or appropriate as the pipe will get twisted and hopefully you will be only spraying water over the side (not back and front as guns do) and only having squrting power on one side of the boat will not really be noticeable. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
5 years ago by ๐ฉ๐ช RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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That's one way Martin ๐
For the X and Y guns on my destroyer I simply added 3 to 1 reduction gears, to the servo directly connected to X gun, giving ca 270ยฐ end to end. Y gun was then driven 1 to 1 by pulley drive. The green pulley belt I buy by the metre, cut to length to keep some tension on, and just glue with super glue. Still holding after 25 years or so๐ค Under deck the mountings are ball races with 8mm OD ally tube pressed in. The tubes transmit the rotation up to the guns. Above deck the gun mounts are the track cases of decades old potentiometers, as once used for volume controls etc. The guns and guards are all wood with a wooden spigot flattened on one side. The ally tube was also appropriately flattened on one side to key the 'plug in' guns. X Gun Capt. now has to be careful not to blast the bridge off ๐ฎ "Cor, blimey! WHO threw that?" Strangely the Captain has given him special privileges on board๐ Doug ๐ ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Graham,
you have done a superb job. looking forward to seeing it in operation. There is another way to get more rotation, and that is to modify the servo to rotate continuously and then add some limit switches. That is what i had done to the main gun on my HMS Cottesmore. martin555. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 2
5 years ago by ๐ฉ๐ช RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Very nice Graham๐
Well thought out. Which pulse stretcher did you use? Sure I've seen one somewhere that claims 270ยฐ. Maybe you need to adjust the end stops in the servo? Doug ๐ ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Doug,
I also find I have lots of very low resistor values that Iโm unlikely to ever use. At least with those I can put them in series to make a useful value, and the calculation is much easier๐คฃ Graham93 ▲
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Remove Ads ๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
5 years ago by ๐ฉ๐ช RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Agreed on all counts Graham๐
I also bought a box selection of the E24s. Now have hundreds of zig MegOhm values I'll probably never use๐ค S'pose I could stack a thousand or so in parallel to make a more useful value ๐ Keep up the great work and tutorial. Good stuff. Cheers, Doug ๐ ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง mturpin013 ( Admiral)
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Fantastic ! both of you are always so helpfull, not only to me but others on the site.
thanks again ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Thanks Doug, I got a bit carried away with the technical bit and missed Michael's request for resistor colour codes. My only excuse is it was late last night ๐
3k isn't standard in the common E12 series of resistor values, but it is standard in the E24 series. I recently bought a pack of 1000 mixed E24 values in 1/8W size quite cheaply from Ebay as I needed physically smaller resistors for model use. They are so small it is difficult to see the colour code printed on them, but fortunately the carrier strips are printed with the values. A good ohm meter also helps.๐ Graham93 ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
5 years ago by ๐ฉ๐ช RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Michael,
"what the resisters were (colour code)" The attached chart might help you identify resistors in future.๐ Graham used 3Kโฆ (3000Ohms) which would be Orange, Black, Red signifying 30 x 100=3000. But 3K is not a 'standard' (easy to get value), the nearest would be 3.3K (3300Ohms), which is coded Orange, Orange, Red. In the more common 4 band system. Or Orange, Orange, Black, Brown (330x10) in the more 'exotic' 5 band system. The last band is the tolerance band. Usually 1% or 5% these days for for the standard values. Happy monitoring,๐ Cheers, Doug ๐ PS Here's a resistor calculator which can help๐ ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Mike,
The servos I have used are TowerPro SG90s, but I expect the modification would work on any analogue servo, although the resistor values may need to change. Servos have a feedback potentiometer attached to the servo output shaft. This pot feeds a variable voltage into the servo electronics based on the output shaft position. For the SG90 servo this voltage is 1.0V when the control stick is at its minimum setting (= 1mSec pulse width) and 2.35V when the control stick is at its maximum setting (= 2.0mSec pulse width). The servo (and feedback pot) rotate about 100 degrees between these two settings. Before modification the pot, which is capable of around 250 degrees rotation, has a total voltage of 3.3v across the ends of the track. Thus 250 degrees of rotation would equate to 3.3V and hence 100 degrees equates to the 1.35V range given above (2.35V-1V). By adding resistors to each end of the potentiometer track, we can reduce the voltage across the track such that the 250 degrees of available rotation equates to a voltage change of only 1.35V. This way the servo has to rotate much further to provide the electronics with the 1V to 2.35V input it is expecting. Adding the resistors involved dismantling the servo, cutting the outer two leads to the feedback pot and fitting the 3K resistors between the cut ends. Hope the attached sketches, together with the photos previously posted help. Graham93 ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง mturpin013 ( Admiral)
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Really good result Graham, can you give more detail on the type of servo and what the resisters were (colour code) and where they go (Im non electronics) so could do with basic explanation
Thanks Ps I have just about got my system working, a different take on the solution ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
5 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Nice bit of work Graham, like the monitor drive idea! simple and effective. Nice servo mod as well.
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Nice work Graham,
As soon as you start getting bits and pieces moving it gives you that extra bit of motivation. Well done. Martin555. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 3
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Rookysailor ( Commodore)
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Nice simple uncomplicated idea Graham, love your idea of using paint on the tube end to find the place to fix, will definitely be using that idea.๐ณ
Cheers, Peter (Rooky) ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
5 years ago by ๐ญ๐บ MouldBuilder ( Vice Admiral)
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Hi Doug.
I am using a 3s lipo. I was only making a comment about 7.4v. I have now purchased two 6volt valves the same design as before. ▲
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Remove Ads ๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
5 years ago by ๐ฉ๐ช RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Peter,
"I cannot get mine to work without applying around 10v. I am a little more optimistic of my setup if they can trigger at 7.4v." But you did mention that the solenoids were rated for 12V, 160mA. I also checked them at your source. So considering the voltage losses mentioned in my post just now in your Gato blog, due to the ESC and rectifier, you do not have a cat in hell's chance of operating that valve when the pump is reversed. Get rid of the rectifier (not needed) and use an ESC and/or TX setting to raise the max reverse voltage to the same as forward voltage, i.e. 100%. Battery must be 12V. A 3S Lipo should cut it as well. At 7.4V you don't even need to waste time trying, not with that valve anyway. Look for a 6V valve. Sorry if that sounds a bit blunt but I would have thought that it was pretty obvious that for a solenoid rated at 12V applying 7.4V will only create about 60% of the magnetic field strength needed to overcome the valve return springs. So it would never open. Doug. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง mturpin013 ( Admiral)
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Really very interesting article, There are more things to consider than you first think. Its been a help to me as Im just doing this job at the moment.
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Hi JB,
Re: How about using something like these remote switches which I use on my HSL and ST to turn pumps and lights etc on/off. Yes, that would work but I should have explained the issue clearer. With the pump plumbed on the feed from the pickup as you suggested, the pump will need to run both when the monitors are in use and for cooling the motor/ESC. With they way I have it plumbed currently, the pump doesnโt need to run to cool the motor/ESC. If I do find I need to change it round, Iโll probably put a remote switch together to connect to the throttle channel and the solenoid (fire monitor) channel. The switch could then turn the pump on when needed for either function. Graham93 ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Hi Peter,
No, there isnโt any back pressure on the valves. They seem to work OK at around 7.5v but I donโt have much run time with them yet to know if they will be reliable at this voltage. Graham93 ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
5 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Re- Yes, I could change the plumbing round as you suggest
How about using something like these remote switches which I use on my HSL and ST to turn pumps and lights etc on/off. As long as you have a spare switch (or rotary - I use the rotary on my HK 6ch to turn on the lights) You could also switch it in the TX program to work with the motor. In the ST I have one switching the pump and ESC fans and one for lights. I only use a 2s 1800MAh LiPo to drive my pump in the ST, and it will run for more than an hour, and the battery will only get down to 3.8/cell, (from 4.1) - a 2200MAh would last forever. When I tested my pump, it was only drawing about 1.25A loaded. Do you know what your particular pump draws? You would not be running the monitors constantly but you could always put another small pump in the motor line and run it constantly as I do, and do away with the solenoids (it will act as a non return valve as well ) and if needed you could switch it off remotely. JB ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
5 years ago by ๐ญ๐บ MouldBuilder ( Vice Admiral)
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Very impressive Graham. I am interested in your comment regarding the solenoid valves. I see that they are 12v; do they have exposure to any back pressure as I cannot get mine to work without applying around 10v. I am a little more optimistic of my setup if they can trigger at 7.4v.
Thanks. Peter. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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JB,
Yes, I could change the plumbing round as you suggest. The downside is the pump would have to run continuously. The present arrangement only needs the pump running when the monitors are in use. However, when it comes to smoking exhaust, maybe Iโll need it plumbed that way Doug, The solenoid valves were sourced from a box in my workshop, which is now empty, so there is no point providing a weblink to that ๐คฃ. However as the box is empty, I did order two more earlier today from eBay for smoker experiments. These are identical to the ones I used for the monitors and look very similar to the ones JB has found. They are rated 12v but seem to work quite happily on a 2S LiPo. Draw less current that way which will help with battery duration. Whilst it works well in practice, Iโm not too happy with the dual solenoid solution from a current draw point of view. One solenoid is always activated, so there is a constant current drain. The servo driven cam solution would have had minimal current drain, shame it didnโt work ๐ค Graham93 ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
5 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
5 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Re - The boat has a water cooled ESC and engine mount.
Hi Graham, boat's looking great, monitors brilliant! Had a thought about the water system and was wondering if you could do the layout in a slightly different way. With the pump where it is in the drawing, it might have a harder time sucking the water through the pipe and valve than if it were nearer the pickup, (it would be pushing more than sucking, - maybe less strain on the pump). Also giving you water from the exhausts when stationary (unless you are intending a second pump for that) Suggestion pic of layout JB ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
5 years ago by ๐ฉ๐ช RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Where did you sources the valves Graham?
Can you post a Web Link please? And what voltage are they? (Questions questions questions!!๐) I think there are several members who'd like to know that. Cheers, Doug ๐ ▲
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5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Hi Martin,
The cooling isnโt pumped. There is enough flow round the circuit just from the motion of the boat and the pressure from the prop. At least there was until I fitted the valve. Havenโt had chance to test it on the lake since I fitted that. If necessary, I could change the plumbing so that the pump is in the direct line from the water pickup and runs all the time. That would increase flow through the cooling circuit, and the valves could still be used to switch the flow between cooling and monitors. Graham93 ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Fire Monitors Part 4
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Graham,
Is there any particular reason that you are only using one pump for cooling and monitors ? Martin555. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
4 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Good chance this sort of thing is what's driving the sound in these modules I have. Wonder if it would be possible to download a new sound by using another SD card (if my units do have that type of system,- haven't pulled one apart so have no idea what's inside.) Too hard to contact the manufacturer,- they say if you send them a sound file they will email you a file to upload to the unit, but my last query was unanswered (no email back)
Not to worry, the sounds I have work ok, and there are probably 0 people in the country who know what a Napier Sea Lion engine sounds like, (in the HSL for eg). When it comes down to it, unless you are trying to score points in a scale competition, who would ever know (or care) what engine a boat had in it (except perhaps you). If it sounds close enough, it will still impress people. It was quite funny when I demo'd the diesel sounds I was first using in the HSL, to the present owner of the original 100% HSL, as he thought that it sounded just like the engine he had fitted to it (GM 8v-92- previously 2x GM 671). At least 1 person in NZ liked it! JB ▲
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4 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Hi JB,
I was thinking of a simple artificial sound generator as that isnโt too difficult to put together. I think it would just be a bit more software in the revised controller Iโm putting together. However, Iโve just been browsing my favourite on-line store and found this. There also seem to be plenty of sound files available on the www to download. Would undoubtedly sound better, but unfortunately it will have to go on my ever increasing โto doโ list๐ Graham93 ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
5 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Graham, I think the pumps I am waiting for are the the same as you've shown here (round micro air pump), saw a diapragm pump somewhere but can't remember what site (Ali Express I think) There are some very flash ones but they are above $50 for the basic one (might be a mini piston pump I think) American lab equipment co from memory.
Re sounds, the ones I use are car versions by GT Power which have around 50 car sounds loaded, and a few make good boat sounds. Unfortunately they don't have sounds for Napier Sea lions or Rover Meteorite V8 fireboat engines (but there is a V8 sound which I use in the ST and MTB and another sound in the HSL which are quite suitable. There are diesel sounds good for tugs etc and various others. The start up and shut down is a cool feature. They are about the only thing I've seen that's half decent, as they are actual sounds, not artificial. I think they run off an internal SD card and the sounds (from start up to full revs) are split into lots of small WAV files, and when the throttle stick is at a static position, the sound in that file keeps looping till you move the stick, (quite subtle on a lot of the sounds) You can hear them in the ST vids. I was thinking, if someone was clever they might be able to get the proper sounds and write a new file, (you can plug the unit into your computer and open the sound files as well as some adjustable features). probably have to figure out how the files are linked to the player in the unit and how the TX signals them to play ? JB ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Hi JB,
I've tried a couple of air pumps and prefer the one salvaged from the blood pressure monitor as it is a diaphragm pump which seems to give it more grunt, despite running on a lower voltage. It is also smaller than the other one I tried so it was easier to fit under the footwell floor. Your original posts got me thinking about how to solve the challenge of making something that gives a realistic effect. I love a challenge like that ๐. Now you have suggested it needs sound to go with it. Just when I thought we were nearly there ๐. Something else to think about... Graham93 ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
5 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Re- following several weeks experimenting,
I was going to ask what pump you had Graham but you have answered it here. Seems to work quite well, not sure how mine will go (if they ever arrive) but there are a number of air pumps on line to try. Need something with a bit of grunt to it. I think this little project has been a great example of Kiwi/Anglo cooperation as we have both swapped ideas back and forth to get this result. Graham has refined the electronics and done a great job and I'm pleased that he has taken an interest in my original simple idea, and with his electronics knowledge made it pretty flash. With the greater model boat interest in the UK, I'm sure it will be seen on more models yet and is a device which can be easily adapted to any model - tugs, PT boats, barges etc, - with or without water. The best thing is it can be made very cheaply as against the price of current marine smoke machines. JB ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
5 years ago by ๐ณ๐ฟ jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
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Re -A few short video clips of the smoking Crash Tender
Don't know how I missed these Graham, that looks excellent, really should get a few comments at a club meet! Pity I've got no one here to impress other than a few passers by. I'm still trying to make mine small enough to fit in the ST but as previously mentioned the low floor makes it difficult. You need some engine sounds to go with it now! JB ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Rookysailor ( Commodore)
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What a fabulous effect for a boat, the mind boggles
how you and jb, managed to fulfill the idea, just pure talent๐ Cheers, Pete btw Video is excellent, even in the rain! ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Hi Michael,
Thanks, glad you like it.๐ Re: Is the electronic controller based on PIC microchips a commercially available item? The controller is my design based on three baseline PIC microchips. Not the most elegant of designs, as this could all be implemented in one mid range PIC with a bit more effort, but it was quick to do this way, and I have a stock of the baseline parts. PIC1 acts as a simple RCswitch monitoring the throttle channel to turn the smoker on/off. PIC2 provides the smoke pulses by turning the air pump on/off at a rate determined by the throttle channel. PIC3 implements two motor speed controllers, one for the water pump, and one for the air pump. This latter speed controller is modulated by the on/off pulses from PIC2. The circuit board shows the three PICs. On the underside of the board there are three surface mount power FETs to drive the smoker coil and the two pumps. I'm happy to share more details on my current implementation of this, but it is not very configurable/transferrable unless you have experience with PICs and the necessary tools. For example, following the trial on the lake yesterday, I think it would work better if the water pump was running a bit faster. To make that happen I have to change some values in the software, and then reprogram the appropriate PIC. It was just easier to put together this way, but its not very practical on the lake.๐ I have it in mind to redevelop the software on a better PIC and to add some buttons on the circuit board so that various parameters could be adjusted without having to reprogram the PICs. It will be an interesting challenge, but will take a little while as I'll have to fit it in around everything else ๐. Graham93 ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Spot on Graham.
Excellent and just as i pictured it. Well done. Martin555. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง marky ( Commodore)
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Looks great ,videos are great.
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๐ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง mturpin013 ( Admiral)
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Hi Graham what a wonderful result, congratulations.
Once again someone has set the bar at a really high standard, one which I have to try and reach as I'm just about to start on this part of my build. (some reasearch needed me thinks!) Is the electronic controller based on PIC microchips a commercially available item or as I think one of your own design? As mechanical engineer, any chance of a wiring diagram, happy to pay? ▲
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5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Rob, Martin,
Thanks for the positive comments. A few short video clips of the smoking Crash Tender on the lake this afternoon. Weather conditions were far from ideal. No on-lookers to ask questions ๐คฃ. Weatherwise, it felt more like I should be sailing an icebreaker๐ Graham93 ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Graham,
All of you'r experiments have really paid off. That is fantastic. I can already see the faces of the onlookers as she is just gently moves away from the jetty water spitting out and the exhaust smoke gently puffing. I wonder how many times you will get asked how did you manage to do that! Excellent work. Well done. Martin555. ▲
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๐ฌ Re: Exhaust Smoker
5 years ago by ๐ฌ๐ง robbob ( Admiral)
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Hi Graham.
Very nicely engineered๐ the video of the result of your efforts clearly shows that it works and is most realistic. Combined with the operational fire monitors the plumbing and electrical arrangements for these features are ingenious. Congratulations. Robbob. ▲
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