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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Ed,
Easiest way to get Hi Def large file video on this site is to post it on You Tube and then post the You Tube link here. Had to do that with the vids of my Sea Scout trials. Cheers, Doug 😎 ▲
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Remove Ads 💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Bragging again Rooky!😁
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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Rookysailor ( Commodore)
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Ref: (15ft !? What takes so long Pete?)
Don't forget Doug, mine is a bit bigger than your Sea Scout, when it's bigger, everything takes a little longer!!!🤪well nearly everything, and I like to build the speed up, as you never know what's in front of you, on the lake.😁 btw, Helmsman is over 6ft and of slim build.. Cheers, Pete ▲
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Martin555
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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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See rides the water well.
Good work Ed. Martin555. ▲
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Inkoust
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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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I got a reply from support this morning, saying it's not possible to upload videos directly to this page, which is understandable. I've linked to a Facebook page for the Wesmac video (hope this is ok). Thanks for the input on motor/prop choices. I'm sure I will be experimenting with different options. The Wesmac 46 has the same E-flite motor and battery but with a (home made) 3 : 1 reduction gearbox and a much larger prop. The real boat cruises around 20 knots so this is not so unrealistic. The ESC is 60A and the 4400mAh 3C battery lasts about 20 minutes. The model is 46 inches with a beam of 18 inches (I'd previously incorrectly quoted 14"). With all this volume she weighs just over 30 lbs to get her to her marks!
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RNinMunich
Martin555
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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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Hi Pete
It's great to hear these stories of building these kits way back then. I remember doing this with my Dad all those years ago and as I've taken this one apart, I see things I remember we had trouble with, such as putting glue on the wrong side of one of the hull sides and having to frantically sand it all off (but the signs are still there!). Unlike yours, mine was always electric powered and slow, but I got a lot of pleasure from it. It's a wreck now, having been stored in damp basements and had things dropped on it! Best, Ed ▲
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Rookysailor
Martin555
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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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Hi Doug,
You are correct. 4400mAH! The E-flites are model plane engines but I have used them successfully on boats and like them. I have never had to fan or water cool one because their Outrunner open design creates its own cooling draft, but of course the ESC does normally need to be water cooled. This motor is 950 kv but requires a 45A ESC. A 4400mAH 3c LiPo normally lasts me at the most 15 - 20 minutes. I'm hearing comments here of battery run times of up to an hour, so I'm wondering if we are talking slightly different scenarios here and this motor is typically driven harder. The motor will run on 4c batteries but then I probably would have a heat problem! The photograph is of a scratch built Blackwatch 30 with two of these motors, 30" long and heavy at 8.5 lbs. The water we live by and run these boats on is open and tidal, so they have to be heavy and decent sea boats! I wish I could get the video of the Wesmac lobster boat to load, as this would show a much better comparison. I asked support for the file types that are supported but haven't received a reply yet. The video is in .m4v and .mp4, both of which seem to load, then produce the error 'unsupported format', or words to that effect. Thanks Ed ▲
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RNinMunich
Martin555
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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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15ft !? What takes so long Pete?
Better tell the helmsman to go on a diet 😁 Which reminds me- Caught sight of myself in the hall mirror today and thought Hmm, looks like I could use to lose something! PREFERABLY THE MIRROR!😂🤣 On that happy note, G'night all, Doug 😴😴 ▲
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marky
Martin555
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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Rookysailor ( Commodore)
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I also have a 1/12 Firboat Ed, not quite as old as yours, mines only 50 years old, bought in 1970 using a merco 60 twin plug ic engine, then later converted to brushed motor, but now has a 2700kv inrunner brushless, with a Turnigy 120 amp ESC, and a 4 cell 5000mah 14.8v battery, not as nice looking as RobBob's boat, but she certainly gets on the plane quick, in less than 15ft, will post some video of her on the water next week.
Good luck with your project, I'm sure you will do a lovely build comparing to your lobster boat.😊 Cheers, Pete ▲
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RNinMunich
Martin555
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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi EdH,
"The LiPos I use are 4400s at 12.6v fully charged." I take it you meant 4400mAH, cos 4400s would be 16.28kV (nominal!) Please please tell me who makes 'em cos I want some shares in that company😁 Must look up Eflite, never 'eard of 'em! Sound interesting. BTW: What format are your videos? What comes after the . in the file name? Happy refurbing, cheers, Doug 😎 ▲
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Martin555
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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Edh,
A little trick i use is to find the rotation of the prop if it is to quick to see is I use a strip of paper. I set the throttle to the forward position and then as the prop is spinning i slowly push the paper in to the side of the prop or prop's from the outside aiming in to the centre. Looking from Aft port side If the paper flicks down then the prop is turning Ant-clockwise. If the paper flicks up then it is turning clockwise. Looking from Aft starboard side If the paper flicks down then the prop is turning clockwise. If the paper flicks up then it is turning Ant-clockwise. I don't know if this help's. Martin555. ▲
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Remove Ads 💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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It looks like l might have to revise engine and prop when I get to sea trials. I have quite a stock and have purposely made this stuff easy to change. Thanks for the encouragement!
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Martin555
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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Graham93 ( Vice Admiral)
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Hi Ed,
Looks like you have a real challenge to keep you busy for quite a while. Lots of useful information about Crash Tenders on this site. I’ve used a 1250kv brushless with a 3S LiPo and a 35mm prop on my 34” Crash Tender and it gets on to the plane easily. I have to be careful on the local pond not to create too much wake and upset the other boaters. I found it didn’t work so well with a larger prop. Looking forward to seeing more of your rebuild. Graham93 ▲
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Martin555
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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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Thanks Doug. We shall see. I had this motor in the shop, but the nice thing about the Eflite is that they are all interchangeable and use the same mount. Just 4 bolts! I’ve used them for quite a few of my models over the last 10 years and have yet to have one fail. The LiPos I use are 4400s at 12.6v fully charged. The next motor up is a 1040, which would certainly turn faster, but I don’t want to have too much speed to be way unrealistic. I will try to load a video of the lobster boat (still figuring this site out - said I had the wrong format so trying a link) which has this motor and battery but with a (home made) 3 : 1 reduction gearbox and a much larger prop. The real boat cruises around 20 knots so this is not so unrealistic. The model is 46 inches with a beam of 14 inches. With all this volume she weighs just over 30 lbs to get her to her marks!
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RNinMunich
Martin555
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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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"hopefully its maiden voyage will be this summer. "
Looking forward to the vid Michael 👍 Cheers, Doug 😎 ▲
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Martin555
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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi EdH,
Oh dear, you've got a job on there🤔 Even worse than my Sea Scout restoration, originally built by my Dad around the same time as your Crash Tender👍 See Build Blog 'Sea Scout 'Jessica'' here for details of my renovation and upgrade! I wonder if your 950kv motor will be 'man enough' for the job!? Only one!?🤔 Would be nice to see it upgraded to two or three shafts👍 My 24" Sea Scout needed a minimum of a 1000kv motor on a 35mm 3 blade 1.4 pitch prop and a 3S LiPo to get on the plane. See here for sea trials and test report. ▲
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Martin555
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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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Thanks Colin. I have some original drawings but they aren't that sharp, particularly when blown up. Do you have a website link? I'm going to use an E-flite #15, 950kv brushless Outrunner with 3C LiPo batteries, driving an Octura 450 three bladed propeller, 1.97” dia x 2.7” pitch. (more on that later!)
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Martin555
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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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Thanks Rob. Your Crash Tender blog was the one I first saw and has already been a help.
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Martin555
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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 robbob ( Admiral)
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Hi Ed.
Welcome to this site. I'm sure you will find all you need to know here. Good luck with the restoration👍. Robbob. ▲
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Martin555
RNinMunich
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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Colin H ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Ed,
Looks like a labour of love, so I'm sure you will manage to do it justice. Do you have the original drawings. I'm thinking of upgrading the motor in mine as she's a bit heavy for getting up on the plane. Mind you I still get great pleasure seeing it in action with both monitors working. Mine isn't the best looker but it's my favorite boat, and has been for over 50 years. Cheers Colin. ▲
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Martin555
RNinMunich
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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 mturpin013 ( Admiral)
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You've got your work cut out there. If you make as good a job of this as you did the lobster boat I'll look forward to seeing it.
I too built the same model in the same year when I was 12 with my dad its whereabouts is unknown but I am just about coming to the end of my 47" crash tender hopefully its maiden voyage will be this summer. ▲
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robbob
MouldBuilder
Martin555
RNinMunich
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Remove Ads 💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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Thank you Martin. I first found this site when searching for original pictures and specs. Not only did I find all kinds of information, but when I recently started reading some of the blogs from people working on the same boat, I got all kinds of ideas. Really glad I found it! I started this in November so posts might come deceptively quickly, then slow as I catch up to real time!
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Martin555
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💬 Re: Aerokits 1962 34.5" RAF Crash Tender rebuild, including interior.
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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You have a lot of hard work ahead of you but looking at the detail work that you have done on you'r other project you will manage it with no problem.
Good luck and please keep us updated. Martin555. ▲
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Colin H
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💬 Re: Strengthening the hull. Starting interior.
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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What a fabulous blog mturpin013! I will be returning to it regularly. It makes me want to go out and buy a small metal lathe. I have one I use for wood, which gives me a lot of pleasure, but it wouldn't be suitable for this kind of work. The last time I used a metal lathe was in the late 60s during the industrial part of my University Sandwich course! It was at the old AEI plant in Leicester. I still have some of the tools I made there. Loved it!
I've learned a lot from your blog already. It never occurred to me that the interior would be varnished wood. I asked about interior colors at the two FB model pages I belong to but never got an answer, so have painted the wheelhouse and uprights in the sick bay the same grey as outside and the floors and bunks a slightly lighter grey. Oh well! The original Aerokits model had sliding hatches on both the sick bay and engine room. Your model shows lifting hatches over the engine room. This is only critical because I plan the have the hatches open, to give a glimpse into the interior. A sliding hatch could feasibly be left open but a raised hatch would be less likely. The engines aren't that detailed so maybe a limited view through the windows is ok! It looks like you had the same problem I had with with a bulkhead running through the wheelhouse that you had to cut back. You are creating something really beautiful! Thanks for sharing. Mine is more abstract! It will be going to a grandchild and probably will be used/abused, plus some parts of the abuse this old kit has been through in the last 55 years will be hard to cover up and will always show through. ▲
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Martin555
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Remove Ads 💬 Re: Strengthening the hull. Starting interior.
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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Yes these are real boats - I seem to switch back and forth. Sorry. We were passed by a real Westmac 46s. Westmacs are popular on the Maine coast. They are ideal for the big seas sometimes found here. It’s a bit like the Cornish coast.
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Martin555
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💬 Re: Strengthening the hull. Starting interior.
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 mturpin013 ( Admiral)
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Hi there ED, Paste in the search at the top of blogs section - The Vosper 46 RAF Crash Tender Kit By Vintage Model Works.
or look down the blogs to about the third row and its there. By the way my roof opens so the detail can be seen. PS I note your comment - "I’ve been smoothly passed by one when bashing my brains out in our deep V Blackwatch 30 in a heavy Maine sea!". I assume your talking real boats here? if so what actually smoothly passed you? ▲
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Martin555
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💬 Re: Strengthening the hull. Starting interior.
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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You are doing a far more authentic and detailed job. I wish I had seen that wheelhouse bulkhead profile before I’d built mine as I might have gone in for a bit more detail. I kept telling myself to go for the general effect as it will be barely visible when the roof goes on, but actually you can see quite a bit through all those windows! I tried to find your blog, putting in your name in the search build blogs, but I’m doing something wrong. Will try again in the morning. Incidentally I wish this had been the bigger 46, but of course there wasn’t one back then and the whole point is to resurrect old family memories! I never built another kit boat. When I started building model boats again about 20 years ago, I got into scratch builds, mainly doing boats for my grandchildren that they liked. One grandson drools over the Wesmac 46S lobster boat which led to the last one. It’s actually a fascinating hull! I’ve been smoothly passed by one when bashing my brains out in our deep V Blackwatch 30 in a heavy Maine sea!
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Martin555
mturpin013
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💬 Re: Strengthening the hull. Starting interior.
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 mturpin013 ( Admiral)
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Hi there ED, unfortunately I agree with Rob. I have detailed my cockpit from some drawings supplied by Mike Cummings It may help to look at my blog - mturpin013 🇬🇧 - The Vosper 46” RAF Crash Tender Kit By Vintage Model Works.
Here are some pics of my offering. ▲
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Inkoust
DaveWhittaker
MouldBuilder
Martin555
Ronald
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💬 Re: Strengthening the hull. Starting interior.
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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Hi Rob,
Oops! I had actually printed out all these photographs and some stills from the videos, except for the sectional at frame 18, which I wish I'd seen. The wheelhouse and helmsman are now finished (I'm slightly ahead of my posts), but I think it is fine. The first picture is very blurred when even slightly enlarged and I compromised with fewer gauges. I took the dimensions from this plan, so I think it's pretty close, but again the plan is pretty blurred. The wheel might be slightly further back, but not much. None of it is 100% accurate and I keep telling myself that all this stuff will not be too visible as the roof will be fixed. I try to imagine everything looking through the windscreen etc.! Thank you for your help. I can't wait to get up to real time so I can seek advice and hear comments as I'm building. I'm not that far ahead of this! I do really appreciate the help, advice and comments everyone's made already and am so glad I joined this group. Thanks. Ed ▲
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MouldBuilder
Martin555
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💬 Re: Strengthening the hull. Starting interior.
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 robbob ( Admiral)
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Hi Ed.
Your 'photo of the helmsman in the wheelhouse is not correct, I'm not sure where you found it but the wheelhouse and control panel should look like this....see 'photos. Also there's are videos on YouTube that shows some of the wheelhouse interior too.. ▲
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DaveWhittaker
RNinMunich
MouldBuilder
mturpin013
Martin555
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💬 Re: Strengthening the hull. Starting interior.
4 years ago by 🇭🇺 MouldBuilder ( Vice Admiral)
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That woodwork looks very good.👍
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Martin555
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💬 Re: Strengthening the hull. Starting interior.
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Nice work,
Keep it up. Martin555. ▲
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DaveWhittaker
MouldBuilder
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💬 Re: Motor, Servo fitted. Fake engine room lifts out to access machinery.
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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I'm in the US, so you might find things are different in the UK, but the E-flite 15 requires a 40 - 45 amp ESC and I've traditionally paired it with a 60 amp Dynamite marine brushless ESC and a 4450mAh 12.6v 3cell LiPo, all from Horizon Hobby. I try to keep everything interchangeable (same battery dimensions, same brand of motor etc) as I like experimenting. With this ESC I actually fan cooled it in the last boat, as I run my boats in salt water. Squirting WD40 through the cooling system after a run does work, but it makes sense for me to avoid water cooling, so when I eventually get around to the ESC, I might look at one designed for cars. Will keep you posted!
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Remove Ads 💬 Re: Motor, Servo fitted. Fake engine room lifts out to access machinery.
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 alfiesmail ( Able Seaman)
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hi
ref your E-flite #15, 950kv,motor, what speed controller and battery will you be using? ▲
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Martin555
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💬 Re: Motor, Servo fitted. Fake engine room lifts out to access machinery.
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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Thanks Doug. As you say, 93 really does look different in more than one picture. Looking carefully at these two, it's really hard to see how they could be the same color scheme, but I do take your point that greys can play tricks. I think I will take your (and others) advice and go with what I was going to do. After all, the interior colors are already wrong! I gather this isn't the first time these color schemes have been discussed and I'd love to hear more!
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DaveWhittaker
Martin555
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💬 Re: Motor, Servo fitted. Fake engine room lifts out to access machinery.
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Ed,
Understand your dilemma, but that's the problem with black and white photos. Not withstanding that one is of 93 and the other of 94! Shades of grey and white can look very very different depending on which way the daylight is falling on the subject and the angle the photo was taken from😮 One B/W photo only is not conclusive. Have a look here at the originals ▲
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Martin555
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💬 Re: Motor, Servo fitted. Fake engine room lifts out to access machinery.
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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Thanks for all this input. The problem I have is the difference between these two pictures. I happen to prefer the look of the darker sides and lighter deck, but if the picture that indicates this is some optical illusion and none were built this way, at this point I can still change it.
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DaveWhittaker
Martin555
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💬 Re: Motor, Servo fitted. Fake engine room lifts out to access machinery.
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Don't be a meany Mike, share your secrets with all of us 😊
Cheers, Doug 😎 PS Is it possibly the original Vosper paint spec? See attached pic. Copy of copy of ..... I'm afraid🤔 But it clearly states that 'As built' the cabin roofs and coamings (sides) were 'smooth deck grey'. Posts on this site from ex crew members state that during the short careers of these two boats (93 & 94) the roofs may have been repainted. Some months ago this topic was exhaustively discussed in at least one thread/build blog. Seems to be a recurring theme😉 ▲
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Martin555
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💬 Re: Motor, Servo fitted. Fake engine room lifts out to access machinery.
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 mturpin013 ( Admiral)
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I have sent you a PM on paint specs
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Martin555
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💬 Re: Motor, Servo fitted. Fake engine room lifts out to access machinery.
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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They’ll come up in a future post shortly, as I catch up. I’m not that much further ahead. Currently doing decks. Taped for the non-skid but would love to get some feedback on exterior colors
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Martin555
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💬 Re: Motor, Servo fitted. Fake engine room lifts out to access machinery.
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Ed,
Do you have any photos of the clay figures that you made ? I would like to see them. Martin555. ▲
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💬 Re: Motor, Servo fitted. Fake engine room lifts out to access machinery.
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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Martin, with past figures I've always used pottery clay but recently lost my access to a kiln to fire them. I therefore tried simple Sculpey, available anywhere, which can be fired at a much lower temperature in a regular oven. You cannot get anything like the detail achievable with pottery/sculpting clay. I found it was easier to fire the roughly shaped clay and put in the details with a Dremel, files and fine sandpaper. I have now done three figures for this project this way, but I would recommend anyone trying it to try to use proper sculpture clay and fire it. One thing to note if using real clay is that it shrinks when fired, so don't use a balsa plug or it will crack. Rolled up paper can work to fill a void.
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Martin555
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💬 Re: Motor, Servo fitted. Fake engine room lifts out to access machinery.
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Ed,
Reference:- "Clay was roughly spread over a balsa block and fired". Could you tell me what clay you used and the process please?. Keep up the good work. Martin555. ▲
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jbkiwi
MouldBuilder
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💬 Re: Cabin modules finished. Wiring for lights done.
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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Doug, the head was conveniently round the corner and out of sight from the companionway, but it would have been fun to have a go at it!
I have to admit I have never spent time inside a Naval vessel and my imagination got it wrong! Of course the old timers I sailed in normally had white paneled overheads and bulkheads, so I should have known! ▲
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RNinMunich
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Remove Ads 💬 Re: Cabin modules finished. Wiring for lights done.
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Excellent work ED👍👍
While you are fitting out the interior I hope you don't forget the ESSENTIAL piece of equipment in the attached pic. 😮😁 Taken on an original Vosper boat. Cheers, Doug 😎 BTW Nearly all the naval ships I've been on over the last 37 or so years, from China to Chile and SA to Canada, incl. patrol boats to light carriers, had pale green interior walls. A few had pale cream instead. Submarines seemed to be grey wherever you looked🤔 ▲
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Martin555
Rookysailor
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💬 Re: Cabin modules finished. Wiring for lights done.
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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Thanks Rob. I knew I was going to have to scrap almost all the superstructure except the cabin sides and I chose to do all the strengthening of the dilapidated hull from the inside, so it made sense to do it this way. It also made it easier to spend time on the interior! This of course was a kit and already built, so was a bit different, but I make a habit of trying to build each model in a completely different way (one was literally from the inside out, starting with the cockpit sides!). For last winter's project, the Wesmac lobster boat, I actually installed the motor, home made gearbox and prop shaft after just building the keel and stem. I only had profile line drawings so the boat had no bulkheads at all. I built it out sideways from the keel. I would do this again, especially with an open transom. Very rigid.
Ed ▲
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💬 Re: Cabin modules finished. Wiring for lights done.
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 robbob ( Admiral)
✧ 16 Views · 3 Likes
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Looking very good Ed.
Interesting to note that you're working from the inside to the outside with the detailing when I for one work on the outside first! But I can see your logic as access is so much easier with most of the superstructure out of the way. Are you using filament lamps for all your lighting? If so you may have trouble replacing them when they pop. LED's are sooo much better and have a massive MTBF. Rob. ▲
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💬 Re: Cabin modules finished. Wiring for lights done.
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
✧ 13 Views · 1 Like
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Hi Ed,
I think you are doing an excellent job on your rebuild. I really like the planking. Keep up the good work. Martin555. ▲
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💬 Re: Helmsman for RAF Crash Tender rebuild
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
✧ 14 Views · 1 Like
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I tend to agree with you ED.
Didn't much like the look of the so called flesh tones and the higher price deterred me somewhat🤔 I agree white gives us a 'blank canvas', so to speak, to colour as we wish. Attached the link to the 'Doll' flesh colours. Cheers, Doug 😎 ▲
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4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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Hi Doug. It's pretty hard to overcook Skulpey, unless you just walk away! I set it for 15 minutes, then tapped it to see how it was hardening, then ten more minutes and repeat. Most were done in 25 minutes but some thicker parts need a little more. If an area is overdone (as one little piece was) it starts to go brown, which makes it harder to paint, but still no smell. Never heard of flesh colored clay, but personally I think I would still prefer to start with white! Experiment!
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💬 Re: Helmsman for RAF Crash Tender rebuild
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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PS to Colin,
Mighta guessed you two would know all about this polymer clay stuff😉 many thanks for the tips👍 BTW: How's the Commander refurb going? Got around to testing the Supermarine yet? I'd hate to think you weren't happy with it or summats gone wrong🤔 Cheers, Doug 😎 ▲
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💬 Re: Helmsman for RAF Crash Tender rebuild
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Colin,
Please pass on my congratulations to Caroline. She has done a fantastic job. Martin555. ▲
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💬 Re: Helmsman for RAF Crash Tender rebuild
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Brilliant Caroline👍
My gast is absolutely flabbered😮 Colin, I'd wondered about smell cos both versions seem to be based on modified PVC! I've also seen warnings that if you overheat Sculpey you could end up producing hydrochloric acid!!! ☹️ ▲
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💬 Re: Helmsman for RAF Crash Tender rebuild
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
✧ 15 Views · 2 Likes
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Doug, There was no smell with Sculpey and my wife would notice as I used her regular toaster!
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💬 Re: Helmsman for RAF Crash Tender rebuild
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Colin H ( Fleet Admiral)
✧ 16 Views · 3 Likes
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Hi Doug, keep away from the fimo, the fumes when you cook it are awful. But the results are good if you have a spare baking tray and don't mind the smell.
Here is what Caroline does with fimo, all the veg in the kitchen garden and the food etc in the kitchen. Cheers Colin. ▲
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Rookysailor
Martin555
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💬 Re: Helmsman for RAF Crash Tender rebuild
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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Doug, Fimo is another popular Polymer clay, very similar to Sculpey. It comes in a softer version than the original, but you still need to work it between your fingers. Don't be tempted not to fire it, as some people are. If you're going to paint it, stick with white!
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💬 Re: Helmsman for RAF Crash Tender rebuild
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
✧ 14 Views · 1 Like
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"Planning to do a figure on deck, controlling the forward fire hose, which will be more animated"
Wow😮 So you're into Androids now Ed!! 😎 ▲
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💬 Re: Helmsman for RAF Crash Tender rebuild
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Great stuff ED, Many thanks for the info👍
Had a sniff around here and my local art supplies shop has Sculpey in stock😊 Also a German near equivalent called FIMO. Ever heard of that or tried it? As a quirk of fate would have it the stuff is actually made not a mile or so from where I live. Small world 😉 Re casting duplicates: see what you mean. Maybe I could mass produce a whole crew to 'Dress Ship'? 😂🤣 I should live so long! Cheers, Doug 😎 ▲
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💬 Re: Helmsman for RAF Crash Tender rebuild
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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The downed airman and medic will appear shortly! Planning to do a figure on deck, controlling the forward fire hose, which will be more animated and fun to do, but that's a way off!
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4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Ed,
I hope you make more figures as i would like to see photos the process as you go along. And how you set them in to a pose. Martin555. ▲
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💬 Re: Helmsman for RAF Crash Tender rebuild
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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Blow by blow Doug!
I generally use potter's clay but lost access to a kiln, so experimented with a low fire Polymer clay. I used Sculpey, available everywhere, which can be fired in a toaster oven, resting on tinfoil in a tray. Don't be tempted with a self hardening clay. They get very brittle when dry, particularly tough for extended limbs etc.. A good potters clay is so much better for getting detail etc so is only fired when finished. With Polymer clay, I found it was easier to get the rough shape, fire it, then start on making the figure. A Dremel with the smallest sanding drum makes short work of larger spaces, but the detail is easier with very fine carving bits and fine sandpaper folded over an edge. The Polymer clay can't be thicker than about 3/8" for baking, so does need a core. I used Balsa. Sculpey can be quite hard, so needs to be softened by repeatedly squeezing small pieces between fingers. It can be softened with Vaseline, but it's very easy to use too much and if possible best avoided. Make the core smaller, assuming you're adding 1/8 to 1/4" of clay. You need enough clay to have some freedom carving, but if you do go through, you can patch small holes with wood filler. Before carving, draw a line representing the spine and the face, preferably joining the two over the head so that everything lines up! Cross this with lines for the eyes (center of the head), the mouth, chin, waist, hips etc.. If you have access to a kiln and want to use real clay, remember it shrinks when fired, so don't use a solid core. You can use fine skewers (wood or metal) to keep the shape when working on it, removed before firing. I used good quality water color paint and of course always use a white or light clay. You could make a mould and cast figures in resin, but for me, the whole point is to make each one different. If casting, you could use real clay as it wouldn't have to be fired before making the mould. If all this sounds too much, this is a really useful way to make realistic cushions for seats, that can be shaped to look soft and inviting! If you do try any of this and have questions, don't hesitate to ask! ▲
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💬 Re: Helmsman for RAF Crash Tender rebuild
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
✧ 14 Views · 1 Like
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I was wondering that too Marky 🔥🔥😭
😎 ▲
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💬 Re: Helmsman for RAF Crash Tender rebuild
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 marky ( Commodore)
✧ 15 Views · 2 Likes
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Does the wooden armiture catch fire in the kiln/oven ? And if not ,is it a low temperature drying clay?
Cheers Marky👍 ▲
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💬 Re: Helmsman for RAF Crash Tender rebuild
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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You betcha Martin👍
Me too Ed😉 I ain't nevver seen nuffink like dat afore!😮😉 Courtesy of my lovely Gisela I have a gift voucher for a major local arts supplies shop. I'm sure they can provide the necessary materials. I just need to know what, and how to use it😁 Looking forward to a blow by blow Ed👍 Cheers, Doug 😎 Thinks 🤕: I guess after you've done one it might be used as a master to make a mold for casting (resin?) of more? ▲
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💬 Re: Helmsman for RAF Crash Tender rebuild
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
✧ 14 Views · 1 Like
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Very good indeed Ed,
It has been a long time since i have seen someone make their own figures. Well done. Maybe you could do a step by step article on it as i am sure other members will be interested as well as me. Martin555. ▲
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💬 Re: Helmsman for RAF Crash Tender rebuild
4 years ago by 🇭🇺 MouldBuilder ( Vice Admiral)
✧ 14 Views · 1 Like
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Never seen that done before.
Really good.👍 ▲
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💬 Re: Helmsman for RAF Crash Tender rebuild
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
✧ 14 Views · 2 Likes
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It's ALIVE!! It's ALIVE!!😮
Fine work Dr Frankenstein👍 Who else woulda thoughta that? Do you work in a museum restoration shop by any chance Ed? Cheers, Doug 😎 ▲
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💬 Re: Crash tender wheelhouse finished
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
✧ 21 Views · 2 Likes
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"The close up camera is cruel! "
Tell me about it Ed!🙄 The close up of your instrument panel tells me your boat may be outta gas! 😁 Nice work👍 Word to the wise though! For the back panel to the console I think I might have chosen a smooth plasti-card rather than an open grain wood.😉 But as you say; You can only see it through the windows. Main thing is you are 'keeping an old lady' alive.👍 KUTGW, Cheers, Doug 😎 ▲
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💬 Re: Crash tender wheelhouse finished
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
✧ 20 Views · 1 Like
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I like the use of the servo wheel for the helm.
It certainly gives you something to think about when you make your own fittings. Well done. Martin555. ▲
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💬 Re: An unfortunate downed airman is in the sickbay
4 years ago by 🇭🇺 MouldBuilder ( Vice Admiral)
✧ 21 Views · 1 Like
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This is very clever.😊
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4 years ago by 🇳🇿 jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
✧ 21 Views · 1 Like
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Nice touch!
JB ▲
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💬 Re: An unfortunate downed airman is in the sickbay
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Rookysailor ( Commodore)
✧ 21 Views · 1 Like
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Proper good that Ed👍, looks like the patient will be OK, look forward to seeing the medic and see what he thinks....
Cheers Pete ▲
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💬 Re: An unfortunate downed airman is in the sickbay
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
✧ 22 Views · 2 Likes
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Hi Ed,
Very very cleverly done. Really looks the part. Well done. Looking forward to seeing The concerned medic. Martin555. ▲
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💬 Re: Windows and decks
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
✧ 21 Views · 1 Like
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For a textured non slip deck i have seen fine grit sand paper cut to shape and glued to the deck then painted and coated with lacquer.
Martin555. ▲
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4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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Doug, I'm happy I did the windows this way, but they were indeed a pain! No opening was quite the same size! Ed
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💬 Re: Windows and decks
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
✧ 21 Views · 1 Like
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"The windows had to be flush as I am finishing the inside, so it has to look ok from both sides. If the inside isn't important, you should definitely just stick the 'glass' on the inside. I would definitely not recommend doing what I did if you don't have to!"
Hi Ed, Not sure I agree with that! I did that with my Sea Scout some 25 years ago during a 'quick get it on the lake' rush refit. The boat was built by my Dad in the early 60s. I didn't like the resulting deep recess on the outside, about 2-3" scaled up I suppose. So when I did a proper renovation and refit 2 years back I used 3mm tinted plexi for a flush fit inside and out. Description in my Blog here- ▲
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💬 Re: Windows and decks
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
✧ 22 Views · 2 Likes
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Too late Ken! They are a very tight fit so I used a tiny amount in the corners and didn't get it on the plastic, so I should be ok. I'm surprised to hear CA glue goes hazy over time. I made several 'glass' display cases a while back, with perspex glued along the edges (no wood frame) and the joint hasn't changed color. The CA glue I use is BSI (Bob Smith Industries) Super Gold odorless and is expensive ($40 for a small bottle), but I am one of the 5% of the population that is allergic to the smell of regular, much cheaper, CA glue. I get strong flu like symptoms within 2 hours! Wondering what the glue sold for windows is made of and if it is similar to the stuff I use.
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💬 Re: Windows and decks
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
✧ 23 Views · 3 Likes
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Hi Peter
I'm a little further ahead than these posts imply, but didn't want to overload everyone with pictures! I'm almost up to real time! The rub rail around the outside is 1/16" thick to bend easily, but wider than I needed to take care of some bad parts of hull to deck joint. I then sanded that flush with the deck, leaving a small rounded bead over the joint. I've seen some modelers paint this bead white, although I didn't see this in any original pictures, so left it grey. The safety rail which is mounted on the edge of the deck, I ran from the front cabin to the stern and transom. This was 1/8" x 1/8". The wood I use almost exclusively is Bass (Lime?) which is easily available in the US and can be bought cheaply in bulk, in many cross sections. You can see both rails fairly clearly in the last picture of the bow (not the one showing the spray can) and also in the closeup of the brass lift eye before painting. The windows had to be flush as I am finishing the inside, so it has to look ok from both sides. If the inside isn't important, you should definitely just stick the 'glass' on the inside. I would definitely not recommend doing what I did if you don't have to! If you can find textured spray paint, I would think this would be easier and give a really even coat. I did look at 'sand' that was sold at the hardware store for this purpose (I think it was actually crushed shells), which probably would have worked, but I was worried about getting it even. The spray worked really well. It does of course involve quite a bit of masking. Don't hesitate to ask questions. I have learned so much from people on this site. Good luck. Ed ▲
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💬 Re: Windows and decks
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 pmdent ( Petty Officer 1st Class)
✧ 27 Views · 1 Like
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Ed - coming along nicely - I am just a few days behind you with my restoration. I have a couple of queries:
1) Did you manage to get dimensioned wood for the "rub rail" ? if so what size is it ? 2) I noticed you ran rub rail all the way to bow - but I recollect seeing the rail stop somewhere around the forward cabin top - not sure if this was on a photo or someones model..... can you enlighten me ? 3) I wondered why you made aft cabin windows "flush"... I was going to just glue an oversized piece of clear plasticard over the inside oversized...…. 4 ) Would adding fine sand into a brushed paint layer on decks work rather than faff with a sprayed texture do you think? Appreciating your input !!! Cheers Peter ▲
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💬 Re: Windows and decks
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
✧ 20 Views · 1 Like
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She is coming along nicely, keep it up.
Martin555. ▲
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💬 Re: Forward cabin tops done
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
✧ 21 Views · 1 Like
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Hi Pete,
Many thanks for your kind offer👍😁 I'll bear that in mind. You may have trouble sending paints etc though! Think I can get Rust-Oleum through Ebay.de, it all comes from a supplier in Kings Lynn!!! Probably have to pay duty now though ☹️ Damn BREXIT😠 Cheers, Doug 😎 ▲
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4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Rookysailor ( Commodore)
✧ 21 Views · 1 Like
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Anything that you may require from Amazon Doug, I would be only to pleased to acquire such,as I already get free p&p(from being an Amazon prime member) and forward to you in Germany.😊
Cheers, Pete ▲
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💬 Re: Forward cabin tops done
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
✧ 21 Views · 1 Like
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Hi Pete,
Amazon.com and other USA suppliers won't ship to UK (or Germany🤔) But Amazon UK stock it, good for you 😉 but not for me 😭 ▲
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Rookysailor
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💬 Re: Forward cabin tops done
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Rookysailor ( Commodore)
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Thanks once again Ed, for conducting the search. I think my best bet would be to contact a supplier in the USA and see if I can get it sent to me here in the UK.😐
Cheers, Pete ▲
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💬 Re: Forward cabin tops done
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
✧ 22 Views · 2 Likes
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Hi Pete. I was in the hardware store today. They have a huge range of Rust-oleum but the closest thing I could find was this fake stone paint which is probably in the same set as yours. The granules seemed less regular as the plain textured paint but it might work. Good luck. Ed
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💬 Re: Forward cabin tops done
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Rookysailor ( Commodore)
✧ 21 Views · 1 Like
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Thanks very much Ed, I was wondering if they call it different over here for the same product, but if you can find some further information, that would be great, as far as price goes, we always get screwed here in the good old UK👎
Cheers, Pete ▲
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💬 Re: Forward cabin tops done
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
✧ 21 Views · 1 Like
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Pete, I haven’t seen this over here, so I’m not sure, but I think the finish might be a little rougher, judging by the cap. I will take a look in the hardware store in the next day or so and see if I can find an equivalent. Don’t like the price: this stuff is a lot cheaper over here! Ed
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💬 Re: Forward cabin tops done
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Rookysailor ( Commodore)
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Hi Ed, could this be the same textured paint that you used? they do it in a choice of colours! can you help🤞
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💬 Re: Forward cabin tops done
4 years ago by 🇳🇿 jbkiwi ( Fleet Admiral)
✧ 21 Views · 2 Likes
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Re - Hardest part was splitting the masking tape into fine enough strips.
An easy way to make fine strips of tape is to stick the masking tape on a sheet of glass (I use an old louver window blade) and use a steel rule and a Stanley knife. You don't need to stick it down hard, - just enough to hold it straight and flat, and hold the knife at about a 5 deg angle while cutting. I've also used this method for Solarfilm aircraft covering for trim pieces. JB ▲
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💬 Re: Forward cabin tops done
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 pmdent ( Petty Officer 1st Class)
✧ 27 Views · 1 Like
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Ed, thanks for the motivation.....perhaps I will try textured decks.....what is the full spec of the Rust-Oleum product you used as I cannot see the full can label....I get Rust-oleum Multi-color Textured....but when I google that appears quite a broad range of product...…..cheers Peter
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4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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Peter, I didn't know about the Rust-oleum texture paint either and found it by accident. It really does work perfectly. The grit is finer than sand and it's easy to get a very even coat. I suspect there is something similar in the UK, but I don't know. The concrete effect spray doesn't sound like quite the same thing, but might be worth looking into. I've added sand when painting the decks of full size traditional sailing boats and didn't find it easy to get a professional finish, so the textured spray paint was a find. Sorry this isn't more helpful, but I'm sure you will find something. It doesn't really matter what color it is. Incidentally I looked up Efailwen and it looks like a beautiful part of the country. I grew up on Tresco, Isles of Scilly, just a bit south of you! Ed
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💬 Re: Forward cabin tops done
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 pmdent ( Petty Officer 1st Class)
✧ 27 Views · 1 Like
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Ed, I see you used Rust-oleum Multi-color texture spray from the can in one of your photos. Clearly available in USA - but I don't think we have exact same product here in UK. I see Rust-oleum "concrete" effect spray that I can get here in Uk but wondered whether it will have same "texture" look as yours..... does your texture arise from sand particles in the spray or what ? Peter
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💬 Re: Forward cabin tops done
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
✧ 21 Views · 1 Like
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It’s not so difficult Peter. Hardest part was splitting the masking tape into fine enough strips. Someone told me afterwards that you can buy a tool to do that! Good luck! Ed
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Martin555
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💬 Re: Forward cabin tops done
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 pmdent ( Petty Officer 1st Class)
✧ 27 Views · 1 Like
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Ed, likewise really nice job on the non-skid and masking....envious......I have to decide whether to bother with this level of detail now as I am about to put in windows and ready for finishing colours...….hmmmm... .not sure I CBA !!!!! for now - Peter
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💬 Re: Forward cabin tops done
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Rookysailor ( Commodore)
✧ 22 Views · 2 Likes
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Lovely bit of masking work Ed, and the finish you have got works really well, think I will have to do the same to mine now😐
Cheers, Pete ▲
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💬 Re: Forward cabin tops done
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
✧ 22 Views · 2 Likes
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Hi Ed,
Clever use of the poppers as filler caps. Well done. Martin555. ▲
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💬 Re: Engine room cabin top
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
✧ 21 Views · 1 Like
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You're right Pete👍 Beady eyes 🤓😉
It's missing in pics 5 and 7 as well. Which makes me even more certain that these pics are from the same trials day and the boat was still property of the yard. Cheers, Doug 😎 ▲
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4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Rookysailor ( Commodore)
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You could be right Doug, also notice on piccy 12,
the port boat hook is missing, but the holders are there.😐 Cheers, Pete ▲
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💬 Re: Engine room cabin top
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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Hi Pete,
I strongly suspect that that photo was taken during 93's yard trials before she was handed over. So that might be a red merchant ensign. Can't see how the light RAF blue would show up so dark in any light when the cabins look so bright, even in a B/W photo! Same for numbers 5 and 12, looks like yard personnel operating the monitors as well. Cheers, Doug 😎 ▲
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💬 Re: Engine room cabin top
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Rookysailor ( Commodore)
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On picture seven Doug, what colour ensign is No3
flying, it looks to be BLUE, but of course black and white photo's can be fooling.😐 Cheers, Pete ▲
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💬 Re: Engine room cabin top
4 years ago by 🇩🇪 RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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"in practice ventilation cowls or dorade cowls are often rotatable 360 deg"
Exactamente Peter, 👍 I would guess always on these small fast boats. You only have to look at the many photos of these boats on the WWW to see them in various positions pointing forward or aft. Some samples attached. Generally it seems that the forward ventilators mostly face forward and the aft ventilators towards the stern. Logical for a good through flow. As you say, the fwd vents would be turned round if belting into a seaway, can be seen in some of the photos. Odd, in a least one photo no cowls are visible at all!? So once again- You pays yer money and takes yer choice! As Willy Shakespeare would say 'Much ado about nothing'? 😁 Cheers, Doug 😎 PS Funny, I always thought that dorade was an Asian fish!? 😉 ▲
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💬 Re: Engine room cabin top
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 pmdent ( Petty Officer 1st Class)
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Ed, thanks for your thoughts and layout plan. Re front or aft facing - in practice ventilation cowls or dorade cowls are often rotatable 360 deg - so one can either encourage air flow or reduce it especially if bashing into a head seaway to limit water ingress below ! so I don't think it matters water you commit to on the model. Still not sure whether to rebate by cowls a bit deeper than the lug......will see how it looks in situ on the model before committing....I agree it is amazing you can still pick up bits for these kits so many decades later !.
Cheers Peter ▲
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💬 Re: Engine room cabin top
4 years ago by 🇺🇸 EdH ( Midshipman)
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Peter, I agree the cowls in the kit seem a little higher than some photographs imply, but not by much. When my father and I built this originally, we drilled holes for the lugs and mounted them flush with the deck, as I think they intended. I will do the same with the refit. At first I thought of mounting them on small raised blocks, but decided against for the same reason. Did you get the layout of where they are supposed to go? The smaller ones are in front. My kit was short the two aft fairleads, but I can make them. I think they mean you to put the posts all the way aft. Not everything in the kit is exactly accurate. There's also the question whether the cowls should face forward or aft. I think I will follow the trend and face them forward as they are prettier this way, but in my sailing days they always faced aft as the airflow went from the companionway forward through the cabin and exited through the cowls. Some of the original pictures also show this. I also bought the tow hook, which was a bit on the basic side and will involve some modification! Based on this, the crane will be scratch built! I am however very thankful and still marvel, that the exact same basic kit is still available for this boat 58 years later! Ed
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💬 Re: Engine room cabin top
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 pmdent ( Petty Officer 1st Class)
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Ed, I have just received my fittings kit from SLEC. I have a query re the ventilation cowls or " dorades". The SLEC pieces have a locating lug but if you install only to this depth - the overall height of the cowl is way bigger than the looks in actual tender photographs. I was thinking of installing them through a hole dia to match the actual cowl stem and so locate them lower and match photos more.....had you had any thought / observations about this?
Peter ▲
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💬 Re: Engine room cabin top
4 years ago by 🇬🇧 Martin555 ( Fleet Admiral)
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Nice work Ed,
Martin555. ▲
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