Following the fitting of new external detachable keel and sealing the area between the bulwarks and deck planking with resin the model now sails without the risk of being overwhelmed by the waves.
New stand also made to make for easier fitting and removal of keel.
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Following the fitting of new external detachable keel and sealing the area between the bulwarks and deck planking with resin the model now sails without the risk of being overwhelmed by the waves.
New stand also made to make for easier fitting and removal of keel.
Paignton, in Yongs Park only in the winter as there is a concession for motor boats in the summer. The Exeter club's new pond is almost surrounded by trees over hanging the water, no good at all for boats with no motor. This summer I am going to try the river Teign (salt water tidal). I will have to loan a friends 16ft boat incase things go wrong and the model goes out to sea. Thinking about things, your motor although low down will give your boat a higher C of G to mine. My ballast is chips of sheet lead mixed with cement, spread along the bottom. I must confess I sold Spray on Ebay £250. Was the only fiberglass hull I had. Needed the room. I still have a Sailing trawler,4ft pilot cutter cutter 4ft, Topsail schooner 3ft, all plus bowsprit, & 2 paddle steamers 5ft & 6ft both steam. Only the schooner has a drop keel. 🔨
Just a few pics of the ballast, internal support and the fiberglass repair to the side planks to the uprights. Sail test tomorrow.
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I had previously ballasted the model with lead inside the boat so knew roughly where to place the keel and used the original lead to fill the keel. Tried before finally sealing with resin and achieved correct balance by moving the rather large 7.2v 2500Ma battery to the front of the mast. There is also a lump of lead in the very front to bring the fore and aft watermark level. I needed this with the lead inside and it is largely a feature of the hull shape with most displacement being forrard. Allup weight is now about 6.4kg.
The depth of keel is largely fixed by the width but there is a bulb at the bottom which places more lead lower thus increasing the righting moment. I am bending the mast if I push at the top so the righting moment is more than adequate. it will always be a trade off between depth and weight plus overall area. My prevoius attempt worked but the model would not turn as the keel ran the length of the boat. This keel allows me to steer admittedly using 140% throw on the rudder but I may add a false attachment that will Improve the response. I would remove this and the keel for display purposes. 😀
The scale rudder looks good, but appears it does not have much steering authority. I use a long, narrow, airfoil shaped rudder on my full sized sailboat and she turns on a dime. The rudder also extends as deep as the keel. Maybe if the keel was more narrow, but deeper the boat would not have so much to piviot on. As you stated a rig to sail, a rig to show.
The lead inside the hull made the model very heavy and difficult to handle.
Other club members have been using detachable fiberglass keels on their yachts so got Brian to make me one.
Had a right struggle removing the lead and needed to repair some damage to the hull, but all good now and detachable keel filled with lead and fitted to hull. The support is above the waterline inside the hull and is sealed with o-rings round the mounting post,top and bottom. 😊
Can now sail in most conditions but horror of horrors it was shipping water into the keel. 😟
Being a nice warm day yesterday managed to test in the tank at home and found the source(s). I had planked the deck and the edges were covered in some 1mm ply that was hiding some bad joints round the deck and the uprights. As a result any water on deck was finding its way into the hull. Stripped off all the 1mm ply and ran clear fiberglass resin in the gap between the planking and hull sides, filling any larger holes with scrap wood. Given another coat today and when fully sealed will make good and paint black as per the original 1mm wood.
The second winch used for the foresails was a pain to use and has been removed - the sheets are allowed to set freely and each tensioned with a soft spring inside the hull.
The lead inside the hull made the model very heavy and difficult to handle.
Other club members have been using detachable fiberglass keels on their yachts so got Brian to make me one.
Had a right struggle removing the lead and needed to repair some damage to the hull, but all good now and detachable keel filled with lead and fitted to hull. The support is above the waterline inside the hull and is sealed with o-rings round the mounting post,top and bottom. 😊
Can now sail in most conditions but horror of horrors it was shipping water into the keel. 😟
Being a nice warm day yesterday managed to test in the tank at home and found the source(s). I had planked the deck and the edges were covered in some 1mm ply that was hiding some bad joints round the deck and the uprights. As a result any water on deck was finding its way into the hull. Stripped off all the 1mm ply and ran clear fiberglass resin in the gap between the planking and hull sides, filling any larger holes with scrap wood. Given another coat today and when fully sealed will make good and paint black as per the original 1mm wood.
The second winch used for the foresails was a pain to use and has been removed - the sheets are allowed to set freely and each tensioned with a soft spring inside the hull.
Broke the mast on Sunday when putting in car. 😰
Needed to replace in any case as this was my original and designed to use a different fixing for the ratlines which required a hole through the mast to allow a removeable peg allowing a sleeve to be lowered so the mast could be collapsed without de-rigging. As I had abandonded this including the sleeve there was always a weak point. 🔨
Spent yesterday and today remaking and re-rigging.
If nice tomorrow I may be able to sail. 😀
Needed to replace in any case as this was my original and designed to use a different fixing for the ratlines which required a hole through the mast to allow a removeable peg allowing a sleeve to be lowered so the mast could be collapsed without de-rigging. As I had abandonded this including the sleeve there was always a weak point. 🔨
Spent yesterday and today remaking and re-rigging.
If nice tomorrow I may be able to sail. 😀
Polyester resin now set nicely and all lead very secure in the bottom of the boat. Floatation test shows a slight list which has been corrected with four small lumps of lead seen on the deck but now fixed inside with some silicon bath sealant so I can reposition if required.
Motor now fixed on stand supported with props to the keel and hull side. I have a small brass bracket fixed with two screws to the winch cross members so removal for servicing is easily achieved.
Just need to complete the boat on the deck. Will probably remove when on water, so will fix to deck with rigging rope.
Just need a nice steady wind to test stability. Video to follow, 😀
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Polyester resin now set nicely and all lead very secure in the bottom of the boat. Floatation test shows a slight list which has been corrected with four small lumps of lead seen on the deck but now fixed inside with some silicon bath sealant so I can reposition if required.
Motor now fixed on stand supported with props to the keel and hull side. I have a small brass bracket fixed with two screws to the winch cross members so removal for servicing is easily achieved.
Just need to complete the boat on the deck. Will probably remove when on water, so will fix to deck with rigging rope.
Just need a nice steady wind to test stability. Video to follow, 😀
Made the seal in situ with a false base beneath the cover. Used casting silicon as it dries nice and hard. Pleased with the result which has made the rear deck absolutely watertight. I used a small brass screw to hold the cover in place and Improve the seal underneath.
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Made the seal in situ with a false base beneath the cover. Used casting silicon as it dries nice and hard. Pleased with the result which has made the rear deck absolutely watertight. I used a small brass screw to hold the cover in place and Improve the seal underneath.
Me again! I've ordered the plans from Chris and await their arrival - at the moment I'm thinking scratch build but was wondering what others thought about the merits of the fibreglass hull?
- PS re the ballast I've seen lead shot used -secured by putting it in a plastic bag adding yacht varnish mixing and then pouring into the bilges.
This chap has some good ideas - http://joliebrisemodels.co.uk/index.html
The hull is a nice solid casting in fibreglass. Very realistic finish and ideal for the model. The shape of the hull is very rounded and scratch building would require quite a number of frames to achieve the correct contours. However if this is your building method of choice then you will certainly enjoy the build.
Lead shot is good for ballast and the method you suggest would work. I have a good supply of lead sheet so have used this without incurring extra cost.
Have now fitted 6kg of lead sheet to the base of the hull in small pieces applied each side of the mast support. Decided against casting two single pieces as access is restricted and the sheet follows the contour nicely. I need to test in water and once trimmed I will fix in place , possibly by pouring in polyester resin to cover over. I believe this will be necessary as I do not want any movement whist at sea!
Need to fill up the holes in the keel for the abandonded outer keel.
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Have now fitted 6kg of lead sheet to the base of the hull in small pieces applied each side of the mast support. Decided against casting two single pieces as access is restricted and the sheet follows the contour nicely. I need to test in water and once trimmed I will fix in place , possibly by pouring in polyester resin to cover over. I believe this will be necessary as I do not want any movement whist at sea!
Need to fill up the holes in the keel for the abandonded outer keel.
Progressed this and spent some time making the keel. Worked fine in the test tank and the Yacht is rock steady, the mast is flexing if I push at the top.
However I have several misgivings; the keel is very heavy and the proposed mounting may not be sufficiently strong to withstand the forces experienced on the lake, wind is unpredictable and everything needs to be shipshape to avoid disaster; the sheer size and depth of the keel will make steering unpredictable as the nice clean lines will have been spoilt. 😰
Others have successfully sailed this model with internal ballast and it is possible that I can achieve the same result. Re-reading Philip Vaughn Williams article in Model Boats from a few years ago (vol 48 577) it appears that the full size carried all its ballast in the middle third of the vessel - to allow good seamanship in riding the waves rather than ploughing through. I intend therefore to make a mould of the inside of the hull using balsa fitted to contour and then casting in two pieces, port and starboard. I have a square block for the base of the mast mounting so will use this to key the lead in place. I did favour removing the lead for transport but believe I may have to have it as a permanent fixture. Fortunately I have a suitable carriage to transport to the lake side. 😊
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Progressed this and spent some time making the keel. Worked fine in the test tank and the Yacht is rock steady, the mast is flexing if I push at the top.
However I have several misgivings; the keel is very heavy and the proposed mounting may not be sufficiently strong to withstand the forces experienced on the lake, wind is unpredictable and everything needs to be shipshape to avoid disaster; the sheer size and depth of the keel will make steering unpredictable as the nice clean lines will have been spoilt. 😰
Others have successfully sailed this model with internal ballast and it is possible that I can achieve the same result. Re-reading Philip Vaughn Williams article in Model Boats from a few years ago (vol 48 577) it appears that the full size carried all its ballast in the middle third of the vessel - to allow good seamanship in riding the waves rather than ploughing through. I intend therefore to make a mould of the inside of the hull using balsa fitted to contour and then casting in two pieces, port and starboard. I have a square block for the base of the mast mounting so will use this to key the lead in place. I did favour removing the lead for transport but believe I may have to have it as a permanent fixture. Fortunately I have a suitable carriage to transport to the lake side. 😊
I have used a piece of aluminium extrusion I happened to have to make a frame for the lead. This was fitted to the keel with three stainless bolts passed through three brass tubes fitted into the original keel, which is solid fibreglass. I made a very rough mould to fit the aluminium and poured lead into this to create the keel. I have bound the lead to the extrusion with copper wire passed through holes in both at each end and in the middle. Due to the hull shape there is more ballast needed at the prow than the stern so the casting reflects this. Also additional lead was added on the starboard side to balance the battery. Once correctly balanced I intend to cover with glass cloth and resin and make the keel symmetrical with balsa infills. I will also make a balsa fairing to spead the load onto the bulbous forward part of the hull
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I have used a piece of aluminium extrusion I happened to have to make a frame for the lead. This was fitted to the keel with three stainless bolts passed through three brass tubes fitted into the original keel, which is solid fibreglass. I made a very rough mould to fit the aluminium and poured lead into this to create the keel. I have bound the lead to the extrusion with copper wire passed through holes in both at each end and in the middle. Due to the hull shape there is more ballast needed at the prow than the stern so the casting reflects this. Also additional lead was added on the starboard side to balance the battery. Once correctly balanced I intend to cover with glass cloth and resin and make the keel symmetrical with balsa infills. I will also make a balsa fairing to spead the load onto the bulbous forward part of the hull
I had originally arranged for a belt drive to the prop but was not happy with this arrangement as adjustment was difficult. I have now changed to direct drive with a high tork low rev motor - ex equipment so I don't know the provenance but it is low current - stall is 1amp and size is between a 400 and 500 type motor. Our lake is large but as with most sailing vessels there is a tendency for the boat to find the obstacles and the motor helps correct the course when the wind is being unhelpful 😰 Decided to complete this before I commence fitting the lead to the keel below the boat as the new arrangement gives more space and acess inside. Motor now replaced. Final fitting will be completed once tested on the lake.
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I had originally arranged for a belt drive to the prop but was not happy with this arrangement as adjustment was difficult. I have now changed to direct drive with a high tork low rev motor - ex equipment so I don't know the provenance but it is low current - stall is 1amp and size is between a 400 and 500 type motor. Our lake is large but as with most sailing vessels there is a tendency for the boat to find the obstacles and the motor helps correct the course when the wind is being unhelpful 😰 Decided to complete this before I commence fitting the lead to the keel below the boat as the new arrangement gives more space and acess inside. Motor now replaced. Final fitting will be completed once tested on the lake.
HI Dave
I think I did not explain very clearly about wind at our lake it comes in of the sea but the lake sits down below an embankment and on one side there are apartment blocks so the wind does swirl around to the point you can be beating in one direction when the wind will do a 180degree change in direction. if the wind is gusting about I leave the topsail off this makes it a little more stable.My bowsprite is held in position by a wooden tapered wedge so if I do run into anything the bowsprite just slides back onto the deck then all I have to do is pull the bowsprite forward and refit the wedge and away we go.Cant remember the weight of the ballast could weigh boat minus masts and rigging etc it will give us a ballpark figure when I get a chance will mail you.
Good sailing
David
HI David
Sounds very similar to our lake. I can easily lower the Topsail and with the lead now amidships and sealed to the base of the hull I am confidant that I can sail safely.
My bowsprit is also wedged so acts like yours. Also helps to load into car and storage.
Actually need nearer 6Kg of lead in the end so my total weight is over 7Kg.
Thanks for the additional feedback
Dave