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Hi all, just thinking about the work I need to do on my Crash tender and the davit would seem to be a problem. Is there any info on it in any detail anywhere? Plans or good photos. I have size, but no details on the winch or the area below where it goes straight. As it's portable I guess it must be round is just manhandled into sockets, but I have no info on that side of things at all. All info. gratefully received.
Hi Martin. I have a drawing that shows the davit but not in very much detail 🤔. It is designed to be swapped between attachment points on both port or starboard sides ( hence 'portable' davit) and when not required it is stowed in the centre deck with the ends locating in some sort of retaining points on the deck and then (presumably) secured to the wall of the cabin. I added some detail to the white metal casting that came with my Vintage Model Works kit and also modified it to swivel on a removable fixing bracket.
See my build blog for more detail on how I made mine.
Robbob, thanks very much for that. I can work with that. I looked through your blog, but couldn't find the bit about how you did the textured surface on the decks, but I seemed to keep missing it. I don't suppose you could point me to the right page number? I was thinking of doing the same thing myself. I don't know if you saw my thread on colours, but I was wondering if the roofs were white at all. The best pictures we have of the boats show the cabin sides to be a slightly lighter colour than the roofs and decks. Could it in fact be the case that the roofs were also textured and therefore not white at all. The drawing I have that describes colours doesn't mention white, except for the FIRE writing. It otherwise mentions greys only. What do you reckon?
Oh, also, on the derrick.....it was moved often and fairly easily, so I'm thinking that maybe it had a more "instant" means of attachment, like a simple column which could be slid into tubular pillars either side. And surely the cutout in the roof would have been sufficient to clear the derrick without having cut outs in the derrick itself? It's modelmaking's great paradox that the most popular RAF boat by far has the least available reliable information!
The 'Deck Anti-Slip Finish' bit is on page 4 near the top.
Re: Colours. As there seem to be no colour photographs or film of the boats the question of colours for the decks, cabins and roofs is open to speculation but you are quite correct to point out that the plans do not specify white for anything other than the hull markings. The cabin roofs I believe would indeed have a textured coating as the crew were required to stand on them to operate the monitors etc. but I decided not to replicate the texture as is would just look like a bad paint job! I did carefully consider the colour options when painting my boat and decided to texture the deck and paint it in the colour specified ‘BS631 RAF Light Grey’ but to leave the cabin roofs untextured and painted white as that seems to be the consensus, and to my eye it does look 'right'. It is also a great shame, as you say, that one of the most popular RAF boats were so few in numbers and not well documented or photographed during their service life.
I have a suspicion that a book of drawings and specifications does exist somewhere as I have seen a few pages that appear to have 'Ministry of Supply' indexes and page references.
The 'Plans & Docs' section of this site has some useful information and some 'photos and drawings but they are of very poor quality and resolution.
Wouldn't it be nice if whoever has that resource were to make it generally available, I believe it's out there somewhere.
We can only hope.
Robbob.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana"
Spray textured paint? I've seen it all now, but actually I recall seeing something along those lines in the newly opened Wicks in our nearest town, so I might return to have a butchers at their range. Failing that it'll be chinchilla dust sprinkled into grey enamel (slower drying) paint. And I think I might try the all grey, but different shades, just to be doggedly different.
I do like an individualist 👍😉 Shame for the poor little Chinchillas though 😲😉 Do they come ready ground or does Chris have to put 'em through the Kenwood mixer?? 😲😁
Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Martin. The textured spray I used came from Halfords and was applied in very thin layers to build up the required texture, bear in mind that the finishing colour will 'fill' the texture to some degree. I also applied a satin lacquer to seal the final surface. Sprinkling pixie dust (or crushed chinchillas 😱) onto wet paint sounds a bit hit & miss to me 😁. Whatever you do is acceptable as 'modellers license', and why not be individual with a two-tone grey scheme👍👍.
Doug. I think I saw these books and others on Amazon UK when I doing my initial research but concluded that they probably wouldn't have any specific info or 'photos on the flying boat crash rescue tenders which are the subject of the discussion here and I didn't want to shell out on the off-chance that they would, but certainly very useful for the other RAF boats. RAF Hendon museum is very close to me, I could walk there in 20 minutes if I was feeling energetic, and it could be worth asking to see what 'photos and documents they have there.
Robbob.
Attached Files - Click To View Large
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana"
Gents, chinchilla dust is the flavour of the month treatment for making country lanes in model scenery, which, as you know, is my Winter pursuit. But, having a wonderful clear up in the workshop to incorporate this mornings win at a local auction of a 10 drawer document cabinet, I found my dust and it was a bit course. The Chinchies were obviously a little damp when ground
So, perhaps a trip to Wickes is called for. I was right next door earlier and forgot all about it, dammit.
No matter, plenty to do afore then. So nice to get all my plans and decals and info sheets in their own drawers.
Hi Robbob, I suspected as much🤔 Even though SAR is SAR! I envy you your proximity to RAF Hendon, but then again I've got the Deutsches Technology Museum 20 minutes down the road (not on foot!) which has all sorts of info on ships, boats, planes, etc etc. They have superb models, several originals, e.g. U1! And an excellent bookshop with thousands of reference books. One of which showed me how to correct the hull shape of my Type IIA U-Boat. Krick had it much too simple! I'm not there nearly often enough. Happy researching all, don't forget to build😁 Cheers, Doug 😎 BTW: sprinkling any sort of dust or sand (never mind the poor little Chinchillas😉) seemed to me at the outset to be 'hit and miss', here nowt, there a mole hill🤔 think I'll stick to wet & dry paper or the alu foil from Kerrygold tubs. Check 'em out, a great tread pattern 😉 PPS; thinking of starting the RSPCCh! 😁
Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Doug, the trick to a good even sprinkle (oy, madam) is height. A more even coating results from a good high sifting. White pepper can be good too, though might cause a sneezing fit and then the jolts would result in molehills
I might pop to Halfords and have a wee look tomorrow. They're just across from Wickes.
Weeing in Halfords! Gadsooks!😲 Tja, the tribulations of old age 😉😁 PS Of course the dust was coarse - if you had a wee look at it 😁 Hmm, must take more water with it 😁😁
PPS: Don't fall off the ladder while sneezing 😲😁
Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
In your case Doug, I'm not sure even water is a strong enough diluant!
Years ago I was living with my parents in Devon. They had a Radio & TV shop and I used to put the TV aerials up for my Dad. In those days I got bad hayfever and I was up on a roof with a 4 aerial and Amp. array when I started sneezing. I counted 27 sneezes whilst holding this aerial array. So bad was it that for the first time I also got a form of Asthma with it (they are connected), so there was I on somebody's ridge, a leg either side, sneezing loudly and wheezing worryingly just about hanging onto four bloody 18 element TV aerials. The home owner came out to see if I was OK and then her father-in-law came out looking hot and bothered. Neither realised what I'd seen on my way up the ladder! That's Plymouth Brethren for you!
Thanks for the reminder Iv'e just reserved a tin of textured paint from Halfords and Ref the colour scheme, I am thinking of joining the York model boat club and at an open day a few weeks ago I was talking to a club rep who actually served on the two RAF boats I will try and contact him and ask the question
See below reply from an ex RAF man The overseas colours are interesting and the link toRAF boats is really good "Hi Michael. when i joined the RAF in 1956 the boats that were specifically for the sunderland flying boats that were being decommissioned and I only saw one fire tender and the colour of the hull was black the main deck was I think bare wood with the well decks and superstructure painted grey with and the top painted white except when overseas the hull of all raf boats were white. Have a look at www.rafboats.co.uk and and you may find one on there. Regards Trev Secretary york model boat club"
Hi Mike, that's the site and link I've been recommending for months! 😉 http://www.rafboats.co.uk/ All the photos are black n white. His memories of the colours post '56 would be the peacetime schemes, and for STs. Martin is apparently fettling up a CT. Depends what you want to depict I suppose. Cheers, Doug 😎
Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Thanks for asking him, Trev. It still leaves me wondering as he recalls a bare wood deck which they never had. Strictly non-slip grey on the Crash Tenders.
Doug, I saw that site ages ago and it really doesn't come to any definite conclusions. We know the decks at least were non-slip grey and on the good pictures you can see how similar the roofs and decks were in terms of grubbiness, which, of course, would gather in the texture. Bad enough on grey, so I wonder why they would risk it looking even worse on white.
Has any body ask these questions of the people mention on that web site EG "Donald Smith (Marine Craft Historian) and Terry Holtham (Military Small Craft Historian) and Budge Bergin (Wireless Operator on the boats for 8½ years at various Marine Craft Units, including Mount B" I'm not sure if they are still with us but its worth a try if they are . I,m willing to try providing nobody has already tried to contact them Please let me know
mturpin, if you would like to try contacting those organisations/people it would be wonderful. I would do it, but I'm in and out a lot lately and can't seem to settle to anything more than half an hour. So if you would take on that task there would be a lot of grateful people. I've even read recently that one such person claims the decks were bare and the cabin sides were a bluish shade! I painted my removable roofs today and I can see why people choose white! It would look a bit too grey, but that's going to be a purely aesthetic consideration. I have found a method of producing non-slip, using Chines five spice powder! Hate the stuff, but it goes onto some Lidl's coloured lacquer, available for 2 cans for a fiver(!!!) which is proving to be lovely resin rich enamel paint. I'm off back tommorrow to get some white, just in case. I have white cellulose, but can't use that over the enamel. The Baufix paint dries very quickly for an enamel with a lovely finish. I have some excellent matt varnish if needed.
Please let us know how your enquiries go. Cheers, Martin
I have done some more digging and I hope this confirms the colour scheme for the boat. please see the reply I received from:-
Donald Smith RAF MARINE CRAFT HISTORIAN
Hello, Colour scheme for the above boat is as follows.
Black topsides, red oxide anti-fouled bottom separated by a 2in white waterline. All decks dark grey anti-slip deck paint, cabin sides light grey, cabin roofs white anti-slip deck paint. Mast-white, monitors red, crash ladder and davit silver/aluminium. An RAF roundel is centred 5ft 4in back from stem and 2ft 1.5in above mean waterline. The centre red disc 4in Dia., middle white circle 8in Dia., and the outer blue circle 12in Dia. The bottom of the white bow numbers should be 2ft 7in above mean waterline. They are 9in high by 6in wide with a 1.5in stroke width and a 2in separation between each number. The forward end of numbers 3 or 4 on the starboard side is 12in back from the outside of the roundel (Port side similar). The main FIRE letters are 2ft 6in high by 2ft wide with a stroke width of 6in and a separation of 6in between letters. The base of the letters is 7.5in above mean waterline. Transom numbers are 10in high by 8in wide and a stroke width of 1.5in and a separation on 2in. Base of numbers to be 1ft 5in above mean waterline. Draft marks are 3in high with a 0.5in stroke.
I hope this meets with your requirements.
Yours faithfully Donald Smith RAF MARINE CRAFT HISTORIAN.
👍👍👍 Air Publication Number please! 😁😁😁 Does seem to match up pretty well with the doc that Martin found. So, that seems to nail it, or what !? Happy painting people. Cheers, Doug 😎 (Or people painting - as the fancy takes you 😁)
Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Thanks for that, mturpin. It would seem to be a final word on the subject, except that the description (and appearance) on the Vosper drawing says Light grey non-slip on the decks and light grey smooth on the cabin sides. White is crossed out and grey inserted too. I am wondering if, for some quite unnecessary reason, the RAF repainted these areas on receipt of the vessels. I guess without specifications we can only go with the verbal. I will be using light, rather than dark, grey, simply as that is almost universally what the limited number of photos show. But I will be putting 5 spice powder in the deck one. Matt varnish on the white one. Thanks Mturpin.
I just had an addendum to the last post - "Hi Michael, I forgot to add that when they were new their cabin sides were varnished and it was later that it was changed to light grey." Regards Donald
That may be the case with some types, but the Mk 2s, 93 and 94 were grey, the Vosper drawing says so and even gives the correct paint type and number. Cerrux Light deck grey, smooth. Can't recall the number without looking it up. I think it was BS 631?
20th Jun 2018 15:01
