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>> Home > Forum > Building Related > Which Glue
Which Glue
(4467 views)
Author Message
cormorant
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 243
15th Mar 2016 08:32  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/21149

I am in the process of building model yawl' Stormy Weather' by ColombinI (now superseded by 'Isabel'). The 'deck planking' that comes with the kit is adhesive plastic sheet which looks like what it is.
To give me a base to properly plank the deck I intend to glue a thin sheet of ply to what I believe is ABS plastic.
I used Gorilla glue and made sure that both surfaces were clamped well whilst the glue was drying. Left it overnight but alas it came apart quite easily.
Has anyone any thoughts please?
Thank you.
Steve


I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure?
Haverlock
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 508
15th Mar 2016 09:11  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/21150

http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/bs014.html

Supposedly specific ABS glue but contact adhesive should work, I would try evostick. Just make sure you position it right the first time because
no second chances.

Roughen the ABS surface with a light sanding to give a key and remove any release agent.


"that's not a bug its just an undocumented creature."

Sir Terence David John "Terry" Pratchett, OBE (28 April 1948 - 12 March 2015)
cormorant
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 243
15th Mar 2016 13:42  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/21151

Thanks. Will give it a try and let you know


I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure?
Derek
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 146
15th Mar 2016 17:24  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/21152

I've tried that Gorilla glue on various things and find it useless. By its own admission it foams and expands. Sounds & looks like another version of expanding foam.

Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1527
16th Mar 2016 09:07  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/21154

HI Derek
There are two versions of this glue. I use the white wood glue version, which does not foam and is really good and bonds quickly. I made the same mistake when I first bought some, the foaming version seemed to stand out on the shelf display, but a subsequent visit revealed the white version. The price was the same for both versions.
The foaming version is good to fill gaps, say when doing restoration and once set it can be sanded. The (foaming) shelf life once opened is not good, about six weeks so not cost effective for small jobs.
The glue works by exposure to water in the atmosphere and evaporation so clamping to a non porous surface wont work. As Haverlock advised a contact adhesive is the correct glue for this purpose.
Dave 😀


Live long and prosper

Dave
jarvo
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 556
16th Mar 2016 09:30  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/21157

HI Derek, when you use the foaming version you have to clamp the joint tight as it will force the pieces apart, however for wood it sticks like muck to a blanket, every glue has its special place

Mark


Etherow Model Boat Club
HoweGY177
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 43
16th Mar 2016 17:03  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/21162

Try using high viscosity cyanoacrylate CA1500 from Surelocdirect.com based in Hull. This is a thick superglue and a brilliant product, can go off virtually instantaneously if used with an accelerator. Besides epoxy this is the only glue I use. Have built complete plank on frame hulls, mahogany decking with plasticard inlay, see my harbour, River Dance and Katie. It is also totally waterproof. Do not be tempted to use cheap superglues. I buy the 500 gram bottle and decant as required into smaller 50gm bottles that they supply foc. I have today ordered my 3rd 500gm bottle at £33.69 and have been modelling boat building for just 3 years.
Good luck, don't stick yourself to the boat. LOL

cormorant
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 243
16th Mar 2016 18:27  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/21163

Thanks for the advice. I am in the process of glueing the sections of ply sheet with Evostick, as suggested by Haverlock, which seems to be successful. However, I have ordered some CA1500 with appropriate accelerator to glue on the planks.
If I stick myself to the boat I'll let you know. Cheers.


I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure?
HoweGY177
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 43
16th Mar 2016 19:29  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/21165

HI Cororant,
A tip whilst planking your boat. I do not know the planking layout so my advice will be general. First do any edge planking, Make card templates for areas that require a curved section. Join sections of planking edge to edge to cover the template and then traceround the template on your glued sections. Sand to obtain a good curve keeping the inside edge perfectly square or slightly undercut. Spray accellerator on the deck, apply CA1500to the underside of the edging. carefully position once accelerator has dried and roll down firmly with wall papering edge roller and wipe off any surplus glue with a dry cloth. Don't use a wet cloth oyerwise the glue will set immediatly and turn white. Complete rest of edging in a simular way. Cut and lay any other edging such as around a hatch cover, strips down the centre of hull etc. Now for the styrene strips to represent calking. Cut the strips of styrene wider than the thickness of your wood planking, they can be reduced with a sharp blade and sanded later . Start from the bow and lay the calking around the strips already laid. Only use a thin bead of glue and work on a few inches at a time. All done now for the main planking. Shape your first plank shaping it to fit snugly against the calking. Before glueing in place do a dry run and mark the deck where the plank will lay. Remove the plank and spray the back. Apply a small amount of CA1500 against the calking and another bead near the centre, do not apply any at the outside edge at this time. Fit the plank rollering it into place. Cut the next piece of calking strip and next plank and do a dry fit and again scribe the deck. Now apply CA 1500 to the 1st plank edge, and lay calking strip immediatly apply another bead to the inside of the calking and lay the 2nd plank pushing it hard against the 1st sandwiching the calking strip. Never apply CA to the outside edge of the plank before cutting the next calk and plank, if you do and it sets you will end up with residue glue setting that will then either set on the deck or sticking the next calking strip or planking whilst you are shaping it. IE. always leave the working edge dry. Complete process for the remainder of the planking. Hope this is of some help.

cormorant
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 243
16th Mar 2016 22:37  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/21166

Thank you for taking the time to give me your tips. They are most helpful.
I have been getting my wood from JoTiKa (www.jotika-ltd.com) and spoke to John the MD about caulking. He suggested that as the planks are only 4mm wide I use a lead pencil to represent the caulking before sealing. Any thoughts?


I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure?
HoweGY177
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 43
17th Mar 2016 07:45  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/21172

HI cormorant,
With narrow planking you might be as well to pencil in corking as otherwise the corking strips could look too heavy and disproportional. Don't try and make the pencil lines too dense when varnished they will be intensified and look false. A collet pencil with ejector leads will keep lines more consistant than pencils that you sharpen. Buy a selection of hardness leads, 2H, H and HB should suffice and practice on a trial piece first. Remember the lead lines will smudge if handled so all sanding and prep work must be done before hand. On a sample you may want to apply a diluted coat of varnish applied with a cloth to lightly seal the surface first, let it dry befor applying calking lines. Another method is to blacken the edges of your decking strips first before laying again try on a few offcuts to see which way you prefer.

jarvo
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 556
17th Mar 2016 09:31  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/21173

HI Cormorant, another possibility is to use black paper as caulking, fit between each plank, when finished sand back to the deck, apply first coat of varnish then sand again to a smooth finish. Continue varnishing and gentle sanding until the deck is ready

Mark


Etherow Model Boat Club
RHBaker
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 120
17th Mar 2016 12:37  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/21177

I was recommended to us UHU glue as it allows some re positioning and , once dry, the excess can be removed easily.
Also tried marking the plank edges with soft pencil or black marker to simulate caulking. Apart from making a mess, found the easiest way was just to carefully lay the planks and let the slight gap simulate it.
Once varnished cannot tell which technique was used where, so in future will just lay the planks carefully and not bother with marking the edges.


Attached Files - Click To View Large

cormorant
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 243
17th Mar 2016 17:17  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/21181

Thanks for all the advice guys. As you can see from the attached at fig 33 most of the planking is curved. My planks are 4x1mm and although the curve is slight they will still need bending. If I am to use CA1500 the wood needs to be dry so soaking in water is a non starter.
I have a wallpaper steamer which I could use. Any other tips please?


Attached Files - Click To View Large


I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure?
HoweGY177
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 43
17th Mar 2016 17:53  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/21182

Suggestion is that you do not curve the wood by bending but glue several pieces side by side to cover the area. lay it on the deck to just overlap the sides and then scribe a line on the assembled strips following the edge of the deck. Cut off the excess and then scribe a further arc 4mm in. Cut off the excess, sand edges and trim ends to suit. Glue in position. before repeating for the next section. Again look at my harbour for 'River Dance' her edging strips were done in the same manor as described above.
Bending strips the way you want is tricky and the wood will tend to twist as you attempt to bend it.

cormorant
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 243
18th Mar 2016 16:50  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/21187

As I understand it then, only the edge strip follows the curve of the deck and the remaining planks are straight?
I was hoping to follow the plan, and the full size version, where all the deck planks are curved, not just the edges. Seems too ambitious as it's my first attempt so I will probably follow your advice. 'River Dance' really looks the part!


I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure?
HoweGY177
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 43
18th Mar 2016 18:15  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/21188

I've taken a very careful look at the deck plan and looking at the aft picture the grain on the wood is so consistant that I believe it could have been penciled in. If you do decide to pencil the curve calking in you may want to make a jig to mark the planking. I suggest making a 'T piece. make the top of the 'T' about 30mm long with 2 small blocks at the end of the 'T' these will follow the edge of the deck. On the long side of the 'T' mark and drill a series of small holes at the plank width to accept the pencil lead. Use the jig by holding the jig against the side of the hull starting near one end and scribe one plank at a time by moving the jig along the length of the hull. Repeat the procedd for the other side. Hope this helps.

Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1527
18th Mar 2016 18:53  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/21189

HI cormorant
Looking at your pic33 the deck planks are clearly curved. On working boats planks are usually straight but on pleasure craft they are often curved as with your model.
If you are using straight planks then the edges are usually stepped into a curved outer plank see http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/bb/bb-55/96-scrat... for an example. The important point is to avoid having very thin slivers of plank up to the join. Takes some time but should be within your remit and will look good if you take care.
If you have not planked a deck before there are several u-tube feeds that offer help. The important part is laying the king or centre plank and making sure it is central down the deck.
Good planking
cheers
dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
KenThompson
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 53
18th Mar 2016 22:26  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/21191

HI Cormerant, I use a black felt tip pen on the edge of my planking to give the impression of corking, looks good and effective. Just roll the felt tip along the edge, easy to do.
Hope this is useful to you.
Ken


May the wind always be always where you want it .
cormorant
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 243
24th Jun 2016 01:52  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/22631

Hi Folks

Just to let you know I have finished Stormy Weather. I am quite pleased with the deck planking using contact adhesive to glue a ply base to the plastic deck and cyano to glue the planks on.
The scale was too small to imitate caulking so I have left the joints plain and used a matt varnish.

She looks good on the water though the running rigging needs some tweaking

Many thanks for all your help


Attached Files - Click To View Large


I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure?