Cookies used in this website are gluten free, wheat free and dairy free. By using this website you agree to our use of cookies. More Info
Guest
Login Below
Join Us On Social Media!
   
Get The Model Boats App!
Apple App Store
Android app on Google Play


Help Support This Website
£
or enter custom amount

(Non Contributor)

Help support this free
website and donate.



£285 a year is needed to keep the website and apps online. Please consider donating £5 or more to help towards these fees.
All donations are securely managed through PayPal. Amounts donated are not published online.

Many thanks for your kind support.

Model Boats Website Team


Donation History
July 2017: 14 people
June 2017: 8 people
May 2017: 8 people
April 2017: 23 people
March 2017: 9 people
February 2017: 12 people
January 2017: 26 people


Unique Visitors This Month

Website Members

Terms and Conditions
Privacy Policy
Advertising
Contact


Model Boats Website
Active Users (2)
Login or Register
To Remove This Ad

Login or Register
To Remove This Ad
>> Home > Forum > Building Related > Couplings
Couplings
(1470 views)
Author Message
Midlife306
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 63
12th May 2017 19:32  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28739

Hi All, a quick question, I've seen these stepper motor couplings used on a lot of European boats on YouTube, they are really cheap.
Why don't we use them in the UK?
Cheers
Wayne


Attached Files - Click To View Large

Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1174
12th May 2017 20:52  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28751

Wayne
I suspect it has to do with alignment. Many model boats have motors and prop shafts that are slightly out of alignment and benefit from a universal joint type connector that allows for this.
Stepper motors and their loads are usually build to tight specs where the drive and load are in absolute alignment.
I inherited a box full of similar couplers but with heavy springs in the middle (where yours have slots). The previous owner used to build his own equipment and was into mechanics and lathe work as well as electrics and model boats.
If you can get the drive train in line I believe they should work. If you are considering using on your model a further post on the outcome would be great.
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
Midlife306
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 63
13th May 2017 08:56  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28767

Hi Dave,
I was just wondering why us Brits don't use them, I have seen them used on mainly German boats on YouTube.
I'm sticking with our normal couplings👍
Cheers
Wayne

muddy
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 8
13th May 2017 09:23  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28768

Hello, These couplings are used in Radio equipment, but only usually found at Amateur Radio Rally's, and with 1/4" plain holes with grub screws, except i beleive Prop Shop used to sell them in various hole/shaft sizes, don't know about buying new, possible that RS Components have them, or such like stores. Good Luck....Muddy....

Midlife306
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 63
13th May 2017 10:24  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28774

There are loads of these stepper motor couplings on eBay
Cheers
Wayne

muddy
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 8
13th May 2017 11:30  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28785

Ahh, The obvious, well done.. Muddy

onetenor
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 115
13th May 2017 21:32  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28813

Whatever happened to the couplings comprising two rubber discs with a bonded in coupling in the centre and 4 I think it was bolts joining the discs together?

muddy
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 8
13th May 2017 21:56  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28816

Good thinking, or the Leather disc fixed with 4 screws between two metal disc's, wernt they sold by Taplin, thought they were advertised with the Taplin Twins.. Muddy....

Westquay
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 180
14th May 2017 13:15  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28832

They tend to work OK on angularity, but not actual misalignment.
I'm happy with slot and pin! Or those wonderful Taycol ones with two sections that have a rough square shape bashed into the ends, then a square stick in between. They help the Taycol famous noise which I love. Who wants silence anyway?

Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
14th May 2017 14:06  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28833

That's why mine is so quiet!! 😉
I've only got a standard UJ. Dad's orig. coupling was just a straight tube.
😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
14th May 2017 14:06  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28834

PS. Preparing to solder the Taycol reversing board! 😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
onetenor
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 115
14th May 2017 14:12  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28836

Yep those leather couplings could also be rubber too. some were home made too. Relatively simple to do even with hand tools👍

onetenor
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 115
14th May 2017 14:18  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28837

On reflection it could have been two bolts making the coupling up🤓

Westquay
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 180
14th May 2017 14:25  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28838

2 bolts one side, 2 tother. Good enough for Lotus Elan, GT6 Mk2 and early 3 and Hillman Imps. Absolute pigs to renew!

Martin

BOATSHED
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 47
14th May 2017 18:36  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28841

I have that funny square stick coupling with my Taycol Super Marine. But was going to use a rubber coupling, Which is best. I plan to put this motor in either my Sea Queen or possibly my 46" Crash Tender. Not sure which though. As I have purchased a nice brushless motor and speed controller to go with it. I am unsure though if it will push the boat fast enough. I have tried the Taycol with a electronic speed controller on the bench and it seem's to work's OK but I have seen some say that they interfere with the speed electronic controllers. Any advice on this please.


BOATSHED
Westquay
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 180
14th May 2017 18:58  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28842

Boatshed, I would say the Taycol would suit the Sea Queen better as it's more of a cruiser. The Fire Boat needs some ooomph to get it on the step, as they say. If you have a brushless, use it in the big Crash Tender.
The beauty of the Taycol coupling is that it simply works. It cannot NOT work. Been in my Crash Tender for 53 years, doesn't look even slightly worn! As to electronics, I just don't trust ESCs, whoever makes 'em and with Taycols you need somebody who understands lecktrickery, which ain't me, but Doug's an electrical man. You can see him trailing wires when he goes for a stroll.
I have bought some supression condensors, but no idea where to put 'em!

Cheers,
Martin

Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1174
14th May 2017 19:57  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28845

Boatshed
Use whatever you want as a coupling with the Taycol. Its so inefficient it will make little difference. They are major sources of interference but capacitors and careful screening will allow them to work with modern RC and ESC's. If you use metal to metal couplings they can cause interference.
Your brushless will require a good well engineered modern type coupling with the motor and shaft in alignment and solidly mounted.
I use a 42xx brushless in my Sea Queen and it is fast. Has your Crash Tender two props? If not the Super Marine should be OK. I would use a nice 3 cell LiPo to make up for the lump of lead that is the Taycol. A brushed 800 would be suitable for either model.
If you want reverse you need to modify and add a bridge rectifier. Doug (RNin Munich) is converting his Taycol so perhaps he will post a blog.
Good luck with the build
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
Westquay
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 180
14th May 2017 22:00  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28857

Isn't it funny how I used my Crash Tender 53 years ago with 27 meg R/C and never ever had any interference problems. Now the fashion victims all want those ugly little cans from Mabuchi or brushless, suddenly the lovely old Taycols are unusable. Rubbish.

If modern R/C is that fussy we haven't moved on at all. Maybe because I have an unbroken link to the Taycol and the Crash Tender I see no reason to just give in and use modern stuff I detest.

I have never been a fashion victim and I am not starting now.

I think this and any other model boats forum and I have reached the limits to our mutual usefulness. I'm off to do things my way. Where I've had help, thanks. Otherwise?............

Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
14th May 2017 22:13  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28858

Hi Boatshed, I'm converting a Taycol Target but the principle is the same with Supermarine. Attached are the original Taycol diagrams for the Supermarine wiring, plus a wiring graphic, with circuit, of the mods for reversing it!
You will need a bridge rectifier, BR, (or 4 single power diodes, see attached diagram) rated for at least 5 or 6 Amps. Essentially the DC outputs of the rectifier (+ & -) got to the brushes. The two AC connections (~ x2) go the the field coil. (I'm not yet convinced that this is the best way round!) Also, put two 4Amp fuses in series with the field coil and one brush connection.
For suppression try a 0.1 microfarad non-polarised ceramic capacitor across the brush terminals. Otherwise the pyrotechnics at high revs are quite spectacular 😉
I assume that the ESC just controlled the speed without reversing?
Good luck, let us know how you get on. Cheers Doug 😎
PS I'm about to test my reversing board, wish me luck, more later. 😁


Attached Files - Click To View Large


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
14th May 2017 22:15  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28859

Ciao Martin, Schade! 🤔


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1174
14th May 2017 22:33  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28864

Hi Doug
I knew I could rely on you to share your diagrams. I will look at your motor post later. Are sparks on the menu?

Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
14th May 2017 22:51  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28867

You betcha! Lovely smell though 👍
I'm still not convinced of this circuit. I'm trying it with a Graupner VR30. Guess I'll know in a few minutes, one way or another 😲😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
onetenor
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 115
14th May 2017 23:21  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28871

Re those doughnut couplings for the Elan etc they now have a version done with two C/V joints and a solid bar between them.A pity there is nothing like it for model boats

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
14th May 2017 23:28  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28875

Dave, see Sea Scout - Taycol blog for first test results. No vid yet 🤔
Cheers 😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
onetenor
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 115
14th May 2017 23:31  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28876

Those circuit pics are small How do you couple up to the field coils or with a premag motor?

onetenor
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 115
14th May 2017 23:36  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28878

Just thinking ! If C/V joints are available for model cars it may be possible to make up a coupling for a boat. Anyone know if these are available?

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
14th May 2017 23:41  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28880

Sure they are. But why bother? UJs are also made for boat shafts. Double action if you want, but I've never seen the point of that. 😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
15th May 2017 01:07  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28882

@ onetenor; did you click on the pics and download? Do that and they'll appear full size in your usual pic viewer.I use Irfan View, not the MSoft crap.
See also my Sea Scout blog for test results. The Target works perfectly with a brushed ESC with + & - from the bridge connected to the brushes. The two ~ outputs connected to the field coil. You will need to modify the links on the motor connectors as per diagram for the Supermarine. Bon chance.
I'm now going to celebrate with a wee dram o 17 year Lagavulin 😉
Good night from Munich, cheers 😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
15th May 2017 01:09  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28883

PS What's a 'premag' motor? If you mean permanent magnet motor - it ain't got no field coils to worry about! 😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
BOATSHED
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 47
15th May 2017 14:59  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28908

Hi Doug, Many thanks for your advice on the Taycol wiring.The ESC I am using is for reversing as well. I am not too good on the electrics and reading the electrical diagrams. But the centre diagram you have posted seems straight forward to me. I also have a Taycol Double Special that I will be using. Will your centre wiring diagram be the same for use with the Double Special. Also would it matter if a 10amp Bridge Rectifier was used and on a quick search all I can find is at Maplins is a Resin-Dipped Ceramic 100pF Capacitor would this be sufficient.
Tom.


BOATSHED
Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1174
15th May 2017 15:40  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28909

Hi Tom
There is a Taycol site that may help you with your Taycol motors
http://taycol.tk/wiring.html
There are slight differences in the different motors and your Double Special falls into this category. The diagrams are clear and you should be able to modify OK.
There is a special page for the Taycols with reversing coils such as the Double Special. This uses the Bridge rectifier without any modification to the motor. For your 10 amp bridge rectifier this would be the best option as it will effectively double it to 20 amps. 25 amp are recommended.
The caps you have are not of the right value you need 0.1 uf (Mfd) or 100000 pF (Mmfd). You may also see them as 100nF. Ceramic are the type you need.
http://www.justradios.com/uFnFpF.html
The above is a useful chart of the different capacitor values most often quoted in electronic diagrams.
Doug has certainly shown the way and if it encourages others to ressurect and modify their Taycols all to the good.
Good luck with the modification
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
15th May 2017 15:47  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28911

Hi Tom,
Wow! A double Special 👍 So you have some decent bearings 😉

This motor has a reversing coil which you will need to disconnect and isolate. The wiring is then changed to link the two field coils together (as on my old two-coil Target), then same procedure as with my Target, - see attached instruction sheet for the Double.
BTW; on further testing (to find out why nothing moved on the first attempt) I found that (as it should be) you can attach the + and - from the bridge to either the brushes or the field coil, the two ~ (AC input) pins of the bridge vice versa. Musta dun summat daft on my first try. Not the first time, or the last I suspect. 😉
Don't run too fast or too long in reverse the comm and brushes don't like it!

Good luck, Doug 😎


Attached Files - Click To View Large


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
15th May 2017 16:00  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28912

Yep, that's the page I found, amongst others.
I'm not so sure that you can reverse the Double without mods. The reversing coil needs to be disconnected and isolated, then you can use this 'freed' post to connect the ESC and the field coil.
Haven't seen one in the flesh so I'm open to correction if someone's done it differently. 😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
15th May 2017 16:22  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28916

PS re Bridge rectifier-
Main thing is it can handle the stall current of your motor.
Don't know what this is for the Double. With my Target it was less than 3A so I used a 4A rectifier. Don't forget the fuses to protect field and armature coils!! 😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
15th May 2017 17:04  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28917

Hmm! Pondering this some more you CAN NOT use the rectifier trick to connect to an ESC without modifying the motor wiring! In the standard 'out of the box' state the field coils and brushes / armature are all in series, with the armature in the middle of the split field coil, as on my Target. Hence only two connections for the battery.
To connect the ESC via the bridge you have to separate the field coils from the armature. Otherwise you can't reverse the motor.
Hence the motor wiring is changed to link the two field coils in series and isolate them from the brushes. See step 3 in the instructions. Forget the reverse coil, just disconnect it and insulate the end.
Now you have four connection points: two for the field coil and two for the brushes. Sooooooo as before; + and - from the bridge to either field or brushes, the two ~ pins from the bridge vice versa! which way round you do it is free choice.
Cheers Doug 😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
BOATSHED
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 47
15th May 2017 18:13  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28918

Hi Doug, the motor already has a capacitor on it, the markings on it are 0.1 - 100 WIMA FKS. I assume that that is sufficient. The box says only needs a single pole switch or relay for reversing. I will just need to sort out wiring up the relay.


BOATSHED
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
15th May 2017 18:23  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28919

Hi Tom, Re Capacitors - check here, Radio Spares.
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/passive-components/capacitors/...

Any of these should do the trick. I filtered out anything not suitable for this purpose.
Cheers 😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
15th May 2017 18:36  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28920

OK. You can do that just for reversing, but no speed control without the ESC. Also relay contacts have an irritating habit of arcing and burning when used for high currents. More sparks!
Your choice but I find the bridge solution is more elegant, more compact and probably more reliable.
You'll need a second channel to trigger the relay, could get exciting if you're on full ahead at the time! Or do you intend to use the negative swing of the ESC output to switch it?
Don't forget the diode across the relay coil to kill the induced voltage!
Let us know what you decide and how it goes. I know which way I would go. Cheers 😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
15th May 2017 18:48  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28922

Hi again, WIMA FKS ='Folienkondensator' which means it is a polyester foil capacitor. Ceramic is more suitable. The 0,1 - 100 means it is 0.1microfarad, 100V DC.
😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1174
15th May 2017 18:56  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28923

Hi Doug
Sorry but you are mistaken. Later Taycols such as the Double Special had a separate reverse winding that provided a slower speed in reverse when selected. There are two connections one for forward and one for reverse. You can use a relay or double way switch to alter the contact.
A modern solution is to use a bridge rectifier as an electronic switch.
I have one and have done the conversion and it works.
Current is high and 25 amp capacity is recommended for the Double Special.
Please have a look at
http://taycol.tk/Rectifier.html
There is a diagram showing the separate coils and how to connect the rectifier.
A fuse is a must as you have advised and for reasons explained in the article.
I do agree your solution will work but I would suggest this alternative works using the Taycol as designed and avoids any disconnection of coils.
Whatever method is used the increased current will require the bridge rectifier to be mounted on a heat sink.
Hope this clarifies and helps you understand these fascinating motors in all their variations
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
BOATSHED
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 47
15th May 2017 18:57  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28924

Hi Again, I am even more confused now, I have never been good with the electrics, this is why up to now any electric boat I have had has been either ready built, or standard 580 style motor with a standard speed controller. Those have been easy the same as R/C is easy to fit. I might just go down the road of motor fitted and no reversing. After all all the ic powered boats I have had have never had reverse on them.


BOATSHED
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
15th May 2017 19:04  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28925

Hi Dave, I know about the reversing coil, reverse wound (natch) and fewer turns so motor is slower. Sure you can switch that, mechanically or electronically but is the ESC still the trigger for reverse?
😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
15th May 2017 19:08  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28926

OK, found it. Makes sense 👍 Connecting the AC input pins together turns the bridge into a couple of power diodes! Elegant.
😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
15th May 2017 20:05  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28928

So Boatshed, don't give up! The solution Dave mentions is very elegant nd simple 👍 Go to this page http://taycol.tk/Rectifier.html as Dave suggests,
and follow the instructions for 'using single diodes'. Or the bridge version if you can't get the diodes easily. circuits attached as on above mentioned page. Cheers Doug 😎


Attached Files - Click To View Large


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
sonar
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 185
15th May 2017 20:15  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28929

well Getting Back to the name of This Thread Couplings

These are the couplings that I have been using.

4mm or 5 mm thread one end and up to 10 mm socket the other end.
Joined together with rubber tubing. and small wire through the tubing and fittings for that little extra piece of mind.

Buying the ends or complete coupling from MMM

Also if using the 8mm socket end your find they will fit right over the std 4mm threaded fittings.


Attached Files - Click To View Large


I much prefer the company of older woman but as the years go by there are less and less about..
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 492
15th May 2017 20:58  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28932

Sorry for the hijacking 🤔 I was led astray! 😭
😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" 😉 Doug
BOATSHED
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 47
15th May 2017 21:09  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28934

No apologies required. I need all the help I can get, as I'm completely out of my depth when it comes to the electrics and capacitors and relays etc. I am taking in as much as I can but lots of it are way over my head. I have already had it running off of an ESC but with no reversing. Thanks TOM.


BOATSHED
onetenor
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 115
15th May 2017 21:42  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28938

Yes I meant a permanent magnet motor ( Permag ) and know there are no field coils.Hence my puzzlement regarding reversing

Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1174
15th May 2017 22:07  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28941

Hi Sonar
I often use this type of coupling. Easy to turn up a piece of brass to suit the shaft, drill a couple of threaded holes for ss lock grub screws or thread to suit the prop shaft.
I have used silicon exhaust tubing but car heater tube is just as good. The locking bits of brass are essential to prevent slippage.
I have even used the slotted type brass couplings from universal joints as they are available in a variety of bores and threads.
Make for very strong and smooth coupling with no noise.
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
onetenor
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 115
15th May 2017 22:45  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28943

Talking of brushed motors I like the /Graupner 400's /600's/800' s Lovely motors. I think.

sonar
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 185
16th May 2017 07:39  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28952

I guess even the std couplings that have plastic housings can be torn apart and the brass ends used in the same way if you can find the rubber hose to fit.

A lot safer than the cheap ones.


I much prefer the company of older woman but as the years go by there are less and less about..