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>> Home > Forum > Building Related > Help Needed new Builder Billings St Canute
Help Needed new Builder Billings St Canute
(2744 views)
Author Message
Frodo31
(Petty Officer)





Forum Posts: 5
27th Mar 2018 06:41  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40460

Hi All,

New to building and just got my first kit, Billings St Canute. All going along well until....

Looking at the stern of the boat i am trying to dry fit it all before committing to Glue, I cannot work out how to fit the prop shaft and the rudder mechanism.

The rear bulk have been laser cut to allow the prob shaft to go through, however the stern has not, the shaft is about as thick as the wood for the stern so i cannot believe you have to drill it, the same problem is with the rudder.

Sorry for what may be stupid question and thanks in advance for the help


Attached Files - Click To View Large

Gascoigne
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 6
27th Mar 2018 15:18  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40474

.In this case, I do believe you are meant to complete the hullconstruction first then drill out the holes for the rudder stock and the propellor shaft. Alternatively lay the profile of the stern flat, draw an outline of the shape. Cut out the channels, leaving two halves. Secure the two halves flat over the profile and glue pieces of balsa wood across the channels either side, thus joining them together again preserving the profile now with a clear channel which you can now use in the hull construction. Do have another careful look at the instructions though as I am surprised the answer isn’t there.
Good luck.


Gascoigne
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2207
27th Mar 2018 22:20  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40490

I agree Gascoigne 👍
Classic case of 'things out of context'!

Frodo, when the hull is constructed as per instructions I am sure you will find that that stern piece is supported on both sides by laminated pieces. 😊
Then you only have to carefully drill through the middle.
On no account drill or cut the stern piece until it is attached to keel and ribs to hold it in position. Otherwise you hardly have a cat in hell's chance of getting the shaft in line with the pre-cut hole in the bulkhead, or even of correctly aligning the stern piece to the keel!
Dry fitting to test the accuracy is good, but don't cut or drill until the instructions say to 😉
Ciao, Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change,
the Courage to change things that I can, and
the Wisdom to know the difference!
mturpin013
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 58
28th Mar 2018 18:33  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40525

Absolutely, by all means try to dry fit parts before gluing but there are some aspects that can't be done before the structure is glued and structurally sound.

Richard7
(Chief Petty Officer)





Forum Posts: 20
29th Mar 2018 14:41  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40550

Hello, l am very new to this forum and this is my first post so here goes. I have just started the Billing kit St Canute and l have installed the prop and rudder shaft. I found out that it is best to complete fig 1, 2, 3of the building instructions. But before l did that l drilled a small hole in part 53 for the rudder& prop shaft. Then glued all the parts. Before planking l cut away where both shafts, glued (2 part glue) both in place. My problem which l hope someone could help me with is fitting the M500 motor, as far as l can see l am going to have to remove a lot of wood from the keel part 00 and bulk head 5 so l can fit a support for the motor bracket as it looks like the motor has to fit very low so it aligns with the prop shaft. This has to be done at this stage as it would be almost impossible to do this with the planking in place. Can anyone help with any advise regarding fitting the M500 motor to the St Canute? Appreciate any help, thanks Richard7

kmbcsecretary
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 211
31st Mar 2018 18:04  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40622

Could you post a picture of the area where the motor is to be mounted or of the diagram in the instructions ,as it may help with giving you the right advise and not cutting away material that you don't need to


Former tug nut now switched to sail because of health
Richard7
(Chief Petty Officer)





Forum Posts: 20
31st Mar 2018 18:50  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40624

Hello, thank you for your reply, l will endeavour to post a couple of pictures. There is no diagram in the instructions regarding positioning the motor which is typical of Billing Boats, all it does show is a picture of the propshaft. I will scan that picture tomorrow and attach the PDF. I took the advise on the Billing Boats UK regarding the motor size M500 (Mtroniks).
Cheers
Richard


Attached Files - Click To View Large

Frodo31
(Petty Officer)





Forum Posts: 5
31st Mar 2018 19:16  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40626

HI all, thanks for the tips, Richard could you post pics of the prop shaft and rudder before the planking,

Also all with the planking, it looks like the planks are not long enough, any tips

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2207
31st Mar 2018 21:38  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40629

Evenin' All, attached the Billings instructions. See Fig. 2, page 18 and Fig. 13, page 29.
Seems there are already cut outs in the keel for motor fitting!
Seems to me that the motor could be bolted to a simple cross piece which is then bolted or glued to bulkhead #4.
Max possible diameter of motor (without having to butcher the keel) can be measured from the profile given in Fig. 13.
Your photo shows the motor too far aft, too close to the shaft.
The mount should not sit on the bulkhead but forward of it in the recess in the keel. Billings designer obviously foresaw a longer coupling and a smaller motor. Maybe a 400 can size!?
I agree, the Billings instructions are more than a bit meagre. 🤔 I've also noticed that the German translation is better and makes more sense than the English version 🤔 If you need any help with that let me know!😉
Cheers Doug 😎


Attached Files - Click To View Large


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change,
the Courage to change things that I can, and
the Wisdom to know the difference!
kmbcsecretary
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 211
31st Mar 2018 22:32  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40631

I agree with you there Doug it does look like a space for a 400 size motor is already there .
The only other option I can see without butchering the frame to much is to piggy back the motor to the prop shaft and use either a timing belt drive or gear drive.
Ron


Former tug nut now switched to sail because of health
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2207
31st Mar 2018 22:48  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40633

Thanks Ron 👍 I would have thought she would be a bit 'over-motored' with a 500er at 20K rpm anyway! 😲
I have a couple of old 540s in my 53" destroyer and she goes like stink on 12V 😁
See what you mean about the belt or gear drive, but might be a bit 'heavy' for a new builder!?
Looks like I might have fun squeezing the Taycol Target into the ancient Billing Cutter I have. Cheers Doug 😎
Richard: if you do fit the 500 it looks like you may be
'Boldly going where no model boat builder has been before'! 😁


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change,
the Courage to change things that I can, and
the Wisdom to know the difference!
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2207
31st Mar 2018 23:25  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40637

BTW Richard, if you do cut the recess further into the keel I would reinforce the keel with some wood fillets on either side for strength.
Looking at the whole construction; I would be inclined to do this along the whole keel anyway - to help with fixing the planking and give the hull more strength, not just relying on a fillet of glue! Cheers Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change,
the Courage to change things that I can, and
the Wisdom to know the difference!
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2207
1st Apr 2018 00:34  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40640

BTW2: for both 'New Builders' Frodo and Richard; a planking tip.
Start at the keel and work upwards alternating from side to side.
helps to stop the hull twisting 👍 Cheers Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change,
the Courage to change things that I can, and
the Wisdom to know the difference!
Frodo31
(Petty Officer)





Forum Posts: 5
10th Apr 2018 04:49  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40929

Hi guys, got to planking and totally lost, sorry again for the stupid question. The planks are not long enough for the hulk please see the pictures of the instructions , it seems to indicate doing them alternative but not sure what to do with the gaps. Help appreciated


Attached Files - Click To View Large

Richard7
(Chief Petty Officer)





Forum Posts: 20
10th Apr 2018 11:31  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40933

Yikes Frodo, I have just measured my plank lengths and indeed they are shorter than the hull approx. 90-100cm!! Considering two kits are identical this must be the intention of billing boats. Has anyone got and advice on this? I was thinking that it might be best to split the plank in half, glue the bow and stern ends first, then glue a plank section in the middle area? "We could do with some help here chaps". Another thing Frodo, do not try and fit the M500 motor I have!! (please see photos), stick with the M400 its smaller. As you can see in the photos my battery will not fit....GULP. Does anyone know if there is a smaller battery out there? The one I have is a 4405385 (Cornwall model boats P/N) 7.2V 3300 H. One other thing Frodo "DO NOT" fit the metal rudder post & item 16, if you do you will not get your inner prop shaft into the tube. The only way to do this would be to remove the motor. Probably best to leave the rudder & item 16 until you have fitted the motor & battery. Also I am finding the space in the hull is very limited for radio control, choose your equipment wisely. I am now thinking I must ditch the M500 motor for the M400 and then look at alternative battery size. After building the Boulogne-Etaples this St Canute kit is extremely challenging. Anyone out there with some suggestions would be a great help....kind of sinking here a bit (a few photos attached) Frodo if you have any further questions please let us know. Cheers Richard.


Attached Files - Click To View Large

BigAlio
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 44
10th Apr 2018 11:46  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40934

Hi can you mount battery across the hull or open up the forward bulkhead ?
As for planking lay long plank then join to short plank and go alternate front to back over lapping joints

kmbcsecretary
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 211
10th Apr 2018 14:15  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40942

R E the planking i would suggest that you cut the timber at the closest bulk head to where the blank ends then with the length of timber that you cut of the end piece use that for the next plank starting at the opposite end to the last one and just keep repeating as you go, that way you dont get joints in the same area along the hull making it stronger just remember that you need to cut at a bulwark and to leave half of the thickness of the bulwark for your next joining timber.
do not cut the lengths in half as all you end up doing is wasting a lot of material and joints in the same area of the hull resulting in a weak point.
Ron


Former tug nut now switched to sail because of health
kmbcsecretary
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 211
10th Apr 2018 14:18  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40943

R E the battery richard the easiest option would be to change the battery for a hump back one, i know components sell them but unsure from other suppliers
Ron


Former tug nut now switched to sail because of health
Richard7
(Chief Petty Officer)





Forum Posts: 20
10th Apr 2018 15:12  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40949

Hey thanks Ron for the planking tip....as for the battery have you got a photograph picture of a hump back battery? Like you mentioned my other option would be to take some of the forward bulkhead out, dam there’s not a lot of space in this model, it’s taken me by surprise still it’s all good experience. In your opinion would you keep the larger motor fitted or would you change it for the smaller version M400? Thanks again for your kind help...Richard

kmbcsecretary
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 211
10th Apr 2018 15:42  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40950

hi Richard this is a hump back battery (pic 1) or you could use a compact battery (pic 2) both can be found at
https://www.componentshop.co.uk/batteries/radio-control/larg...
You could change the motor for the smaller 400 type if you could find use for the 500 for something else but you have altered the framing to fit the 500 now so it would mean having to undo what you have done and at this stage do you think its worth the hassle only you can decide that.
Ron


Attached Files - Click To View Large


Former tug nut now switched to sail because of health
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2207
10th Apr 2018 16:15  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40952

Hi Richard, so far Ron has been right on the button 👍 and just beat me to it on the planking. BTW: Planning is half the game, so first split the planking packs into two equal sets. Offer up the shorter planks to the framing to see where to cut with absolute minimum wastage.
MEASURE TWICE OR THRICE AND CUT ONCE!! Is the maxim😉
Work on alternate sides to minimise twisting of the hull. Good luck.
The second batt Ron suggests should be your solution as it's only about 68mm long. The 'inline' pack you have is about 105mm.
https://www.componentshop.co.uk/7-2v-3700mah-sc-nimh-compact...
Actually the Billing instructions (such as they are🤔) recommend an 8.4V pack, but since you have fitted a more powerful motor than recommended this 7.2V pack should throttle it back a bit 😉 Run time probably less than with the 400 though.
Cheers Doug 😎
PS Dimensions of Hump Pack added; too long! 112mm😆


Attached Files - Click To View Large


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change,
the Courage to change things that I can, and
the Wisdom to know the difference!
Richard7
(Chief Petty Officer)





Forum Posts: 20
10th Apr 2018 16:43  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40954

You guys are good,very good! Going to order the hump back battery (68cm), that will save me butchering anymore of the bulk heads......huge thanks! Regarding the planking in the kit, they are all the same length about 90 cm short of the actual boat length, have purchased a “planking machine from Mantua, never used one before but am hoping it will help me to bend the planks before fixing with glue, have you used anything like that, any tips? Cheers and thanks

kmbcsecretary
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 211
10th Apr 2018 16:57  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40958

not used the plank benders before richard i have made my own plank steamer to soften the planks for bending using a wallpaper stripper with a length of copper pipe fixed to the end to place the planks in works a treat 😎
may i remind you richard i noticed there is no strengthener on the joint below where the motor couplings is, i know it goes below the planking line but you could still place a strengthener above the planking line in side the hull


Former tug nut now switched to sail because of health
BigAlio
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 44
10th Apr 2018 17:39  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40961

Hi Richard and Frodo there are some good video clips on youtube showing planking techniques maybe of some help

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2207
10th Apr 2018 17:51  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40964

Agreed Ron, that keel joint definitely needs some reinforcement👍
Personally I would do the same between all the bulkheads to give the last plank something to sit on and strengthen the whole shebang.
Actually it should be the first plank; start at the keel and work up on alternate sides. 👍

BTW Richard, if you buy a 68cm battery you'll have to build a half full size boat 😉😁 Also, when cutting the planks try to make sure that you don't have short pieces at the stern. They will be harder to keep in place than longer chunks and won't take the hull shape properly and smoothly. Try to keep the joints somewhere in the mid section where the hull is flatter and the joints are under less stress BUT not one above the other, stagger them at least one bulkhead from plank to plank.

If you don't get on with the bender (and the hull will be painted and not varnished) you could cheat a little (we all do it when it suits😊) and glue balsa blocks around the stern and carve and sand to fit.
@ Frodo, this was originally your thread 😲 - hope you are following and all this helps you as well!? Best of luck to you both, cheers Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change,
the Courage to change things that I can, and
the Wisdom to know the difference!
Frodo31
(Petty Officer)





Forum Posts: 5
10th Apr 2018 18:20  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40967

Hey guys all amazing tips, I will give it a go, I am amazed at how bad the instricuons are for what is meant to be a beginners (all be it advanced beginners ) build ! I will post some pics as I go along, thanks all

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2207
10th Apr 2018 18:31  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40970

Go for it Frodo 👍👍
Look forward to the pics (Build Blog?) and 'Maiden' vid 😉
PS I have downloaded the 'destructions' and find that the German translation from the Danish is slightly better, but the format of Billing's instructions is basically Sh-one-T. Instructions for 'Insiders'.
Ran across this phenomenon professionally here in Germany with Operating Manuals and System Descriptions written by the development engineers. THEY KNEW how it all worked!😲
I had to introduce a new style which helped the guy confronted with the 'beast' for the first time to use it and to fix it if the wheels fell off.
And for the Admiral a System Description which would simply explain to him why he should spend his hard fought budget on that particular equipment or system. Lots a fun 😉


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change,
the Courage to change things that I can, and
the Wisdom to know the difference!
Richard7
(Chief Petty Officer)





Forum Posts: 20
11th Apr 2018 16:39  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40993

Hi everyone, l checked the planking balsa in the kit and they are all the same length, so when fitting l assume that you should start from the bow end and the next from the stern end and vice versa. Then fill the shorter lengths use a full plank strip and cut small lengths to fill the end gaps? Between us l cannot see what the logic is behind Billing Boats doing this? Both my previous billing boat kits came with planking longer than needed. All very odd. I will ensure that l strengthen the keel as suggested, thanks to all for your help. Frodo l look forward to seeing some photos of your planking once you’ve started. Cheers Richard.

Richard7
(Chief Petty Officer)





Forum Posts: 20
11th Apr 2018 16:47  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40994

Doug, when l purchase the compact battery pack from the web site you advised, do you think l need to purchase a different charger? I have a sprint charger that l was using for the longer battery pack that will not fit into the St Canute.
Cheers
Richard

kmbcsecretary
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 211
11th Apr 2018 16:55  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40996

Richard the battery should come with the standard tamiya connection


Former tug nut now switched to sail because of health
Richard7
(Chief Petty Officer)





Forum Posts: 20
11th Apr 2018 17:01  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40997

Thanks Skipper, the charger that I have does have Tamiya connections, but can I use the existing charger that I have or should I buy another one for the compact battery? I don't want to damage the new battery when it arrives....
Cheers

kmbcsecretary
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 211
11th Apr 2018 17:05  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/40999

It should be fine basically same battery as your original one just been assembled differently


Former tug nut now switched to sail because of health
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2207
11th Apr 2018 17:06  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/41000

Hi Richard, if the charger was good for the original battery and both are NiMH it will be good for the new one as well.
One thing bothers me slightly: what does 'Sprint' charger mean? Just a name or does it only do fast charging at high current?
Which is not recommended as it shortens the battery life. 😆
Which charger is it? All the best, Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change,
the Courage to change things that I can, and
the Wisdom to know the difference!
Richard7
(Chief Petty Officer)





Forum Posts: 20
11th Apr 2018 17:16  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/41002

Hi Doug....I've attached a photo of the charger, its a Sprint NX84 purchased from Cornwall Model Boats...
Richard


Attached Files - Click To View Large

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2207
11th Apr 2018 17:30  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/41004

Thanks Richard, that's fine👍
"1Amp delta peak" so no high current, excellent.
Will charge the 3700 compact in about 4 hours from flat.
BTW: don't let the pack go below 1.1V per cell, they don't like it and get lazy!
Go go go😉 Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change,
the Courage to change things that I can, and
the Wisdom to know the difference!
Frodo31
(Petty Officer)





Forum Posts: 5
11th Apr 2018 21:00  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/41008

Hi Richard, it does seem really odd , especially if you look at the plans for the planking which seem to indicate planks are long enough. Anyway who know maybe a bad set of wood, but sure will work!

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2207
11th Apr 2018 21:38  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/41011

Hi Frodo and Richard,
Herewith the 19th epistle from the Munich detachment to the ....!?
Problems are only challenges waiting for an elegant solution!
Billings just wanted to keep costs down, you have the tips soooooo -
Go go go Guys 👍
😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change,
the Courage to change things that I can, and
the Wisdom to know the difference!