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>> Home > Forum > Building Related > Painting
Painting
(837 views)
Author Message
steve-d
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 45
21st Oct 2018 18:48  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47340

I have a Huntsman 31 model I am refurbishing.
The paint is peeling off from age, the muppet who painted it only applied one coat (Me), the Humbrol enamel was probably too thick for the fine grain of the birch ply and spruce.

I am planning to start with cellulose sanding sealer as it is nice and thin so should get a good key into the grain.

So..
What paint should I use over the sealer?

Some parts of the ply I want to look like teak deck planking so first I think I need a stain. Then line in the planks with fibre tip pen followed by what type of varnish?

Some of the spruce needs to look like mahogany so do I stain it or use some sort of paint?

Thanks
Steve

mturpin013
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 69
21st Oct 2018 20:27  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47343

If you intend to stain the wood don't use sanding sealer first as the name suggests it seals so your stain won't take. as for simulated planking I suggest you sand the deck as smooth as possible (down to 1000 grit paper) and the using a scalpel type blade score the deck lines, but be careful as any slip will show on the final deck. After scoring the lines use a stain to rub over the deck and immediately remove the excess with a cloth, the stain will have more effect in the scores thus showing deck lines. When dry remove any excess with white spirit and leave to thoroughly dry, then sand again. This should leave you with a planked deck look which can now be sealed followed by coats of lacquer - Halfords do a clear lacquer. I suggest you try on a piece of scrap ply first.
good luck

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2484
21st Oct 2018 21:52  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47348

Concur Mike. 👍 I would just add; use the back edge of the scalpel blade and angle it slightly into a thick metal ruler as a guide, helps to stop it gliding off into the grain due to the bevel on the sharp side.
Mind your fingers!! 😲
Ciao, Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
onetenor
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 462
22nd Oct 2018 03:07  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47358

Dilute the stain before use and apply thinly.You can use additional coats if needed but you can't take it off if it's too dark.👍

Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 796
22nd Oct 2018 09:21  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47359

My cabinet maker Granddad always said to stain the finish , never the wood, as stain can kill a grain. He would always use shellac/French Polish and then stain over that with a stain filled further coat of french polish. The same is done with real Rivas and no other boat can claim the finish that Riva always got with stain over Epiphanes varnish. I use cellulose sanding sealer on the wood, then a spirit based stain (NEVER acrylic water based muck) on the sanding sealer and then varnish, proper spar varnish to get that lovely glow. I have always used steamed Pear to represent mahogany in scale, but it does need a little darkening and that's how I do it. That way you control the colour, but don't "kill" the grain. Grandad also said , "always cut wood, boy, don't scratch it, make it bleed", so I became a dab hand with a cabinet scraper and use very little sandpaper.

Here, as they say, is one I made earlier using exactly these methods.

Martin


Attached Files - Click To View Large

Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 796
22nd Oct 2018 09:27  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47360

Oh and back of a scalpel's fine or I found a slightly blunt scriber, which is less likely to follow the grain. Of course planks made from suitable veneer would give you the laid deck look as well, but take longer.

Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2484
22nd Oct 2018 10:33  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47362

Mornin' Martin,
We musta had the same Grandad! And he musta had a bicycle!! 😉
Mine was a master carpenter, made a lot of church furniture amongst other beautiful things, and used such techniques and similar sayings.👍
I inherited a few of his tools, chisels and planes and his W.H. Marsh wood stamp.
Granny unfortunately sold the rest before I could get down to Folkestone and prevent it 😭 I was in the middle of A Level exams at King Ed VII Grammar in Kings Lynn at the time.
Cheers, Doug


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
steve-d
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 45
22nd Oct 2018 12:23  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47370

Thanks Martin you came to my rescue...I had already sanding sealed the deck.
I like the idea of scoring the ply and rubbing the stain in but the planks curve following the line of the hull and I don't fancy my chances of controlling a scalpel along the curve. They try to take your fingers off in normal use without giving them an unfair advantage.
I've still not decided how to mark the lines even with the fibre tip pen. Think I will have to make a form of 'Odd Leg Caliper' to do most of it.

Haverlock
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 503
23rd Oct 2018 00:12  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47389

rather than making odd leg callipers head down to W H Smith and pick up a helix drawing set. It includes a fitting so you can clamp a pen fits the spring bows


"that's not a bug its just an undocumented creature."

Sir Terence David John "Terry" Pratchett, OBE (28 April 1948 - 12 March 2015)
Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 796
23rd Oct 2018 08:47  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47390

Steve, I am not an intimate of Fairey boats, but traditionally, motorboats have their deck planking in straight lines, whilst yachts have it following the edge of the boat and joggling into the King plank, so you may only need to mark straight lines, but Fairey might prove the rule by being the exception. Bearing what you say in mind I think the old pencil trick may be sufficient, but once you've done that and put a finish over the top be very careful if and when you rub down, lest you go through to the pencil lines as that will be very difficult to correct.

Doug, I reckon our Grandads must have been from the same school of woodwork. His other big beef was people who varnished teak. The only time I ever saw him genuinely annoyed was when he and Nan paid an unexpected visit just as Dad had teak veneered an oak gate leg table that Dad'd brother had made years before as a wedding present for Mum and Dad (he was also a cabinet maker). Having sawn the ogee shape off the edges and teak veneered it he varnished it and hung the leaves from the washing line to dry. Grandad saw them hanging up and asked, "What the bloody 'ell's that?" "Oh just modernising the table", said Dad. "You don't varnish teak, boy, you oil teak, only bloody railway carriages are varnished, and they're all bodge jobs" He really went on alarming. Dad just couldn't bring himself to ever varnish a bit of teak veneer again!

KES is still one of the main schools in Lynn, btw.

Cheers,
Martin

steve-d
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 45
23rd Oct 2018 15:29  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47400

Will post pics of the curved planking when I get in this evening but in the mean time any thoughts on the type of paint I should use on the hull? The subject boat is painted with International 'Toplac' but the smallest tin they do is 750ml (£22.95) so its not getting that. The model was painted with Humbrol enamel but it peeled so perhaps to be avoided.

steve-d
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 45
23rd Oct 2018 20:17  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47402

This is the planking I need to replicate.
Pretty complex but that is what I have let myself into


Attached Files - Click To View Large

Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 796
23rd Oct 2018 20:31  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47404

Ah! I thought Fairey might prove the exception to the planking rule. Well, it'll look nice, that's for sure. Paint. I always use enamel and my local auto paint shop will make me 1/4 litre tins up, of HMG, which lasts a long time from a small spray gun. Failing that, Rustoleum do some lovely rattle cans in a range of colours that spray very well and are only just over a fiver a tin. One tin would do you if you're careful. I've just given my Darby One Design its second coat of blue after a rub down and I'm happy with that. Dries very quickly, but is a nice gloss. It is a bit thin, so be very careful how you spray. Better to do two coats than one thick one. But really, if you can get it, HMG is the best bar none. Worth hunting for. Paint, alas, just ain't cheap anymore. Would that we could get tins of Valspar or Japlac, eh? The proper original stuff. Plastikote was a good paint when it was an enamel, now it's acrylic water based muck. No coverage and reacts with itself, let alone owt else.
I would be inclined, btw, to do that curved deck in veneer, so all your mistakes will be made before it goes on the boat. In which case, once the planks are made and fit bang on, go up the edges with a black marker pen. It will look like caulking when all is done.

Good luck,
Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2484
24th Oct 2018 00:35  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47411

Good luck Steve! I see your problem 🤔
Don't know how you want to do that with calipers😲
The radius is not constant so how do you progressively adjust the caliper / compass to match!?
I would make a brass / alu template (min 2mm) to match the deck edge curve.
Then you only have to mark the plank widths, at both ends, to be able to set the template for the next plank.
The elegant 'T' piece on the bow I would first mark and scribe using a card or plasticard template taken from the plan.
Bon chance mon ami!
Cheers, Doug 😎


Attached Files - Click To View Large


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
steve-d
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 45
24th Oct 2018 09:21  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47416

Yes coming to the same conclusion on a template rather than calipers because the planks follow the hull curve along the side of the cabin but do not follow around the bow.
I'll make a template of the side and see if I can move that forwards and achieve the required result.
I think I may also cheat a little and have slightly wider planks than scale and hope there arn't too many 'rivet counters' (Land Rover expression) out there.

Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 796
24th Oct 2018 10:03  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47417

I notice your first picture shows properly joggled planks into the King plank, but Doug's picture shows no joggling on, I assume, a similar boat.
Joggling will look so much nicer.

Not keen on the varnished deck of the boat seen from the rear. Scrubbed teak is the "proper" finish for a deck.

Cheers,
Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2484
24th Oct 2018 11:52  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47418

Except on Rivas and the like Martin😉
(and restored Sea Scouts of course😁)
Both my pics were taken from Huntsman 31 For Sale ads.

Rather like the curved planking, but would be a devil to do!
Planks would have to be pretty thick to stop 'em warping while trying to curve 'em 😲
Way to go Steve 👍

Joggle jiggle, what's it matter so long your mojo works 😁😁


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 796
24th Oct 2018 14:07  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47421

Ah, there are motor boats, Doug and then there are woodies! Woodies have varnish...everywhere, motor boats are a little more utilitarian I think. Perhaps the Fairey tendency to be on the sea rather than freshwater lakes meant they had scrubbed teak decks.
If you made the deck planks from, say 2mm stuff, they would curve no problems, but veneers would have to be cut to shape. Nice sharp knife and gently does it is the trick.

Martin

marky
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 274
24th Oct 2018 22:07  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47430

Could you make a template of the deck marking the planning on it ,then working from the centre or outer edge trim off the first plank put the template back on, and scribe or draw 1st line then trim to 2nd line repeat until all the planning is done.

steve-d
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 45
24th Oct 2018 22:16  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/47432

Yes you could but to make the template you would have to draw out all the planking so you may as well do it once on the deck.
It would be no easier doing it on the template.
The second issue would be needing to use card for the template then run the risk of the ink marking running under the template edge.