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>> Home > Forum > Electrical Related > Using old motors
Using old motors
(385 views)
Author Message
Westquay
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 71
7th Apr 2017 15:57  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27305

Hi all, I'm seeing posts on internet search dated 5 years or more ago, so here goes in modern times. I have a number of lovely old motors which I want to use in my speedboat models. By speedboat models I mean exactly that. Models of actual speedboats...woodies as they're widely known. They would need to go at something like a SCALE speed of 25 - 40mph, so no acid-loving ducks here, just fastish. PLEASE don't suggest I buy modern brushless stuff. I'm just not into all that. BUT, is there any newer thinking about speed control and reversing of the old Taycols, Frogs, Basset-Lowkes and SELs? I do posses one modern motor...a speed 480 taken from an airyplane. It's all I can get in my Sea Hornet, now it has been converted to a Chris Craft Racing Runabout.
Cheers,
Martin (already winding rheostats!)

Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1044
7th Apr 2017 18:47  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27312

Hi Westquay
Look at http://taycol.tk/Reverse.html re your Taycol motors.
As regards getting 25-40mph that may not be possible with your vintage motors. In their day the Taycols were the best around but I suspect after nearly 50 years they will be showing some deterioration in the windings etc. My supermarine double special was very impressive and gave a good spark from the copper foil bushes that increased with speed. You actually oiled the brushes.
Your speed 480in a suitable light planing hull maybe if your batteries were also not heavy.
An ESC will reduce the voltage to the motor so if you just want speed perhaps a heavy duty microswitch or relay would be best
as you will not presumably want to tinker around at slow speed.
I suppose you may still be able to get a Bobs board for the ESC which will work better than a rheostat.
Radio interference is a major problem and you will need to suppress the motors and keep all receiver wires/servo wires and the aerial well away from the motor. You have not stated what rc you intend to use but unless you live in a very remote area reed and similar early radio gear will not work well in the modern rc world.
Good luck and please keep us posted on your progress
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
Westquay
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 71
7th Apr 2017 18:59  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27313

Hi Dave,
many thanks for your answer. I wanted a scale speed of 25-40mh, so much slower than the real speed of that figure. As long as they just about plane I'll be happy. I've been trying to get a Bob's board for ages. My old friend has a few in his loft. He used to make all the display models, aircraft and boats, for Bob's models.
My R/C gear at it's earliest is Mini Hex from 1971 or Digimac. I can't get the REP single channel I once had, but which was stolen. I should say that my old Crash Tender (which I really should finish some time 53 years later!) always ran a treat with it's Supermarine Special, using said REP sytem. The Basset-Lowke motor is a permanent magnet type so will probably be OK with an ESC, but I have no idea what sort to use as I don't understand them. All I read seems to suggest that they are either expensive or unreliable. And they need "programming", which totally puts me off!

I have no model boat clubs near here, so would just use the local canalised river which has both sides accessible and is rarely used by full sized boats. But at least I don't have to worry about other R/C users.

Looks like the world is much the same for old motors after all.

Cheers,
Martin

Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1044
8th Apr 2017 11:16  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27323

Hi Martin
I see from your profile you are in a rural area so you may be OK with your rc gear.
ESCs can be expensive but generally work well. You will need a brushless type and both Electronize and Mtronic should work. I suggest you look them up on the web and either send an e-mail or ring them up to see what they suggest for your motor. Both allow you to set the nul point to your tx and require the minimum of programming to set up.
Perhaps your friend could visit his loft and let you have one of his Bob Bords. I have not seen any advertised for many years and I disposed of all I had to friends who were still using.
Good luck and please keep us posted with your progress. I would be interested to hear how you fare with the old rc gear.
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
Westquay
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 71
8th Apr 2017 12:03  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27325

Dave, thanks for your helpful reply. I shall bear all those things in mind. I have to finish the boats yet, but will let you know once all is installed. Would I be right in assuming that even a simple rheostat won't work on a Taycol with field windings?
Cheers,
Martin

Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1044
8th Apr 2017 12:20  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27327

Martin
It should work but the problem is the current draw is high (say 5 amp +) even at low speed as the coils creating the magnetic field have to be energised. This means your rheostat is not so simple due to the high current draw. Your best bet would be to make a servo attachment with a wiper that had a heavy duty brass contact with some brass plates on a paxolin panel. You could then connect resistance wire to the plates connected to say +ve with the motor connected to the wiper via the -ve. It's likely to be big and will get hot but should work.
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
Westquay
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 71
8th Apr 2017 14:48  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27328

That sounds like an elegant solution, Dave and I will try it.

Any idea how much resistance wire and what gauge would be needed on each segment and how they would have to be wired together?

Many thanks,
Martin

Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1044
8th Apr 2017 19:17  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27331

Martin
That's the question and I don't know the answer The wire will need to carry the max current and you will possibly need several strands in parallel and connected by nut and bolt to each segment. This will inevitably reduce the resistance per foot so the length will have to increase to get the same result. Each segment should be connected in series so your sliding contact has more or less resistance in play. Very much trial and error. I see the link I posted no longer works. This is cached on my PC so worked for me.If you want to see send me a pm with your e-mail address and I will share.
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
Westquay
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 71
17th Apr 2017 14:29  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27570

Well, I know I said I would be using older motors, but I think keeping them for older (non speed) boats is maybe the sensible thing to do, but the main reason for what I'm sure you'll all consider to be the obvious answer is that this weekend, my NiCad powered drill gave up the ghost, or rather its ancient batteries did, and unknown to me so did my son-in-law's! So suddenly I had 2 big ol' brushed moderns, but more than that, ESCs correctly matched to the motors as both drills have speed controls AND forward, neutral, reverse switches (and little finned gizmos which I take to be heat sinks) so what defense have I now against the "use modern stuff" brigade? I shall keep my older Taycols, SELs and Basset-Lowkes in period correct hulls.
So, the question is.....is there any reason why I shouldn't use the speed controllers that come with the drills and is there any harm in running the motors at less than the voltage they run at in the drill function? After all, I won't be doing up any 3" screws with these boats!

Cheers,
Martin