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>> Home > Forum > Electrical Related > And now it is ESC time
And now it is ESC time
(1347 views)
Author Message
none
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 185
28th Apr 2017 07:02  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27849

I will soon be looking for ESC,s

I had thought dual esc,s and now thinking two singles.
25 Amp Brushed for a 12 volt sealed lead acid battery.

I have seen an awful lot of 320 amp dual on ebay but seems the low price is a little unreal for what they are.and 320 amp again doubtful ..

Unless of course someone has one and tried it.

So what can the members recommend for a reasonable price and from where ?

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
28th Apr 2017 09:06  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27854

Try the Graupner Navy VR30
Ca 45 quid, e.g. Cornwall Model Boats

http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/graupner_2880.h...

😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
Westquay
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 180
3rd May 2017 21:41  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28067

45 quid!!
Jeez, no wonder I'm going sail!

Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
3rd May 2017 22:26  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28070

Saves on motors, batteries and chargers as well, so now you can afford a decent sail winch! Nicht wahr 😉


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
Westquay
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 180
4th May 2017 08:02  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28073

Nah, I can make one of them, I can't make ESCs!

Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
4th May 2017 10:07  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28077

Hi Martin, with me it's the other way round! Many years ago, when I couldn't afford ready made ESCs I took a standard servo apart and hitched the electronics up to some power transistors, left over from some stereo amp. experiments. Was easier for me to get hold of those than gear wheels!
I even etched my own circuit boards in those days.
Of course this trick only works for brushed motors - aber immerhin as they say around here! 😉 Will try to make a concise description of my hatch idea this evening. Have a good day. Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
Westquay
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 180
4th May 2017 10:40  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28081

Doug, my Dad was a radio and TV man. Used to make his own tape recorders and PA gear, but I couldn't ever get my head round it all as it doesn't move. If it goes round or connects in any way I'm there, but any wires and I glaze over like it was football or something (I detest all sport).
I don't even know how to wire up the microswitches on my sail winch. I might be on here for some help there from you!

Cheers,
Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
4th May 2017 11:00  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28084

My Dad was an electronics specialist in the RAF, one of the first radar guys!
Once I figured out how transistors worked and the resistor colour code the rest was relatively easy! I specialised in radio comms, from the early car mobiles and cellphone systems in the 70s - 80s to marine comms the last 30 odd years.
Feel free to ask, although I'm not so familiar with sail winch operation.
I suppose with all the tackle above deck you can't make it 'fit and forget' before you fit the deck? Good luck Doug


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
Westquay
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 180
4th May 2017 12:12  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28087

Sounds like our Dad's had similar careers. Mine was also headhunted into radar, but declined because of having to move away. But he had a very good radio & TV repair business till he died and somewhere along the line I too learned all the resistor colour band values. In fact Dad paid for a subscription to Radio Control Models and Electronics for donkeys years, from Number 1 in fact, but never had time to build anything!
So, yes, I will ask and the questions will seem dumb because I am bright enough to ask different questions, but ill-informed enough to have to ask in the first place! I will need help with my older motors too, because i can't understand the details on the Taycol website, so gamely gathered by "Dodgy Geezer".

Thanks for the offer. Similarly anything you need to know about modelmaking tricks and tips, please ask, although I'd say you didn't need to!

Cheers,
Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
4th May 2017 12:19  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28090

I don't know? I'm a bit two left handed when it comes to woodwork! OK for cupboards and fitting out the kitchen etc but not so terrific for miniature stuff.
See my comments on 'Using old motors' re the Taycols, I also have one which I plan to refurbish, it has no bearings 🤔, and experiment putting it back into the old Sea Scout that Dad built, only boat he ever finished!
Cheers Doug


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
Westquay
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 180
4th May 2017 12:31  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28094

Ooh, a Taycol without bearings, Hmm. They only had Paxolin bearings amazingly. My Supermarine Special is still fine and it's 54 years old this Christmas! I would probably suggest srewing a new plate of Paxolin over the old bearing. A very Taycol thing to do.

Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
4th May 2017 12:34  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28095

Shucks, I have sintered bearings in various sizes but no paxolin. Also lathes to make to size if necessary. Suppose I could use some old PC board (printed circuit not pers. computer!) 😉


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
Westquay
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 180
4th May 2017 15:46  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28104

If you have a lathe then I would say turn up a top hat shaped bearing and screw onto the paxolin end plate with 3 nuts and bolts.

M

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
4th May 2017 16:36  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28109

Good idea! 👍😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1427
5th May 2017 16:30  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28157

Hi Sonar
What size brushed motors are you wishing to control?
I my experience Chinese amp ratings bear little or no relationship to the real world. A good indication is the thickness of the power wires. It could be a decimal point problem and they mean 3.2 amps.
Like most things cost increases with the spec so higher current ESCs will cost more.
If you know the stall current of your motor then a good rule of thumb is to buy an ESC capable of double this current.
There are many suppliers that sell on the internet and searching under brushed ESC and (say) 50 amps will bring up details.
Action do a dual ESC but two seperate ESCs will work just as well.
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
none
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 185
5th May 2017 16:47  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28158

Hi These are the motors.
Not much info on them.

But they are large and I can also replace the brushes when required.

http://www.engel-modellbau.eu/catalog/product_info.php?cPath...

Big motors and they work very well in big models

I had the Action stuff dual ESC and melted the p94 still awaiting a return email response from them three days ago.

In the meanwhile as you say two esc's are more than likely better.

Two from Here http://electronize.net/model_electronics_frames.htm

They seem to have the stuff that I have reliably been informed will do the job.

So a few weeks time And I will be able to see how they go..

Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1427
5th May 2017 17:25  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28159

Hi
Specs say 180Watt so 15amp max at 12v.
I suspect the actual stall current is somewhat higher - a wattmeter connected between the battery and motor whilst briefly stalling the motor with a wooden clothes peg should give an indication. I do mean momentary unless you want to cook the motor or wires!
The Electronize will work up to 24 volts which would halve the current and may be a better solution.
I was going to look on the site and see if they suggest an ESC but my McAfee warned me off- don't know why. This is a commercial motor and from its pic I suspect high current. It's also possible that it is multipole and may be generating lots of back emf which may need some fast Schottky diodes adding to the ESCs to protect the MOSFETS. I would check with the tech guys at the ESC suppliers to see if they recommend their product for this motor.
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
none
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 185
5th May 2017 17:35  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28160

I did ask and they seemed to think there just large motors of approx 850 the escs they said should be ok for them.
So it's a wait and try it game again.The motor makers have not sugested any Esc.s

none
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 185
5th May 2017 21:07  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28162

If anybody has an electrical Background It seems it is possible to make your own ESC http://www.rc-airplane-advisor.com/electronic-speed-controll...


And http://trebor69.tripod.com/speedcnt.html

May be of help to some member

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
5th May 2017 22:08  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28165

Hi All, my McAfee warned me off as well! Seems Engel hasn't updated his Security Certificate Algorithm. Which means connections to his site may not be secure, especially for paying! Recommend PayPal. I checked his company here in Germany and it has good write ups in the various responsible authorities; company register etc. Nothing negative anywhere, company was registered in 1994, one manager and two participating investors. I don't think taht there is anything suspect about the company, a 3 man show? An unsecure connection (acc. to McAffee) is the only food for thought.
The 'motor maker' seems to be Bosch. Bosch makes motors for all sorts of things from windscreen wipers to washing machines and some aerospace stuff. They won't be particularly interested in footling around with us model makers! Odd thing is I don't find it or any specs on their Erzatzteil (Spare Parts) site.
Better the devil you know .....?
Cheers from Munich, 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
none
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 185
6th May 2017 07:14  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28176

So Far as payment goes
You place your order They then make sure they have the amount you order in stock they then pack it and send you a Proper Pay Pal invoice. Through Paypal not a website..

You pay ....They check and then post.. Easy..
Never had any problems.

If it is not in stock it is Not advertised......

Never seen a spare parts site is their one ?

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
6th May 2017 07:28  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28177

Hi Sonar, I agree. I use PayPal whenever possible. The spares list I referred to is on the Bosch site not Engel, since you mentioned that the brushes are replaceable. I was trying to find some more info on the motor from the maker. Engel, as far as i know, doesn't make anything.
Cheers 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
none
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 185
6th May 2017 08:48  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28181

I think Engel is a supply shop only.

Maybe they do manufacture something else not advertised on the web site.

Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1427
6th May 2017 10:54  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28191

Hi Sonar
I have been building electronics for many years as a hobby so am speaking from experience. The circuits you mention are for Forward only so may not suit if you require reverse.

As it happens I am repairing an Electronize VR ESC and there are two large Schottky diodes protecting the MOSFET. The motors seem to be designed for industrial use and are very similar to car heater fan motors which I have used in my model tugs and damaged the MOSFETs in the ESC. Not all motors have multiple poles, which appear to be the main culprits.
If you have a problem at least you can go back to the supplier and ask for your money back.

I am sure Engel is perfectly legitimate and provides a good and efficient service and I agree that PayPay is a secure payment method.
However the site connection is insecure and any personal or financial details you provide on line to the website be it for card or PayPal will be visible to anyone to intercept.

The https in their address is incorrect and could well lead you to believe the connection was secure.

I think Doug has identified the motor manufacturer and the motors may be end of line stock being sold by Engel. It certainly looks an impressive motor.
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
6th May 2017 12:02  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28196

Hi All, Correct👍 The circuits appear to come from 'fly-boy' sites.
I checked out Engel in the Chamber of Commerce here. No problems.
Just seems the site builder has gone on strike or left or something.😉
I seem to dimly remember buying some stuff (motors?) from Engel about 2 PCs ago!
Had no problems except delivery was not so fast as expected, but the stuff did arrive. I've also been looking at their sub diving kit to maybe pep up my dynamic diving 1:72 Type IA U26 .
Cheers 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1427
6th May 2017 13:26  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28199

Hi Doug
Whatever the reason anyone sharing personal date over the company web site is being exposed to a very real risk until the connection is secure. If you do not have some form of security on your PC/tablet etc you may not be aware that the connection is not secure.
Interesting comment about sub diving kit, why not start a build blog?
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
6th May 2017 14:16  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28200

Hi Dave, absolutely clear! You and I seem to have the same Web Adviser 👍 With the sub that's just research at the moment! It needs renovating just to run as dynamic, not used for 10 years. Needs new accus and then re-trimming for the different weight! So, spurred on by Westquay👍; I have moved the renovation of Dad's old Sea Scout up the priority list. Took her down of the shelf day before yesterday after 25 years or so and removed all the junk. See attached photos. Junk was used for experiments with siren, water pump, lights etc. Photo 1 'Off the Shelf', photo 2 'Junk Removed', photo 3 'The Junk!', #4 Stern and cockpit 'Off the Shelf'. Old DIN audio socket is for charging the RX accu. The hole was for a screw in telescopic antenna, borrowed from an old TX! Not very aesthetic but Quick and Dirty for trying things out. The 'odd thing' sticking out the transom is just a dummy exhaust hiding the bolt I put in to fix the antenna bracket inside. Needs must ....
I have also started cleaning up the old Taycol Target and will put that back in instead of the Decaperm. Taycol will be adapted to run on a modern ESC with reverse; using the bridge diode method.
Have been thinking of a Blog for the renovation of the Old Lady (the boat not the other half!!!😉)! So U26 will have to wait for more than just an interim refit. The SLEP comes much later! Not much room for diving gear, hull was carved out of 4 thick planks glued together with a big slot in the middle for equipment! Will be a challenge!!!!!!!!
Cheers 😎


Attached Files - Click To View Large


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1427
6th May 2017 14:48  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28205

You really should start your own blog for the Sea Scout. Very nostalgic model and it looks like a Deccaperm installed!
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
6th May 2017 14:57  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28206

Aye aye Sir, WILCO! Already compiling photos, a couple of the Taycol Target attached. She rattles bit but runs! Brush gear badly needs cleaning and resetting.
Big clean up of the hull starts tomorrow. Deck in surprisingly good condition 😊 WATCH THIS SPACE !! Cheers 😎


Attached Files - Click To View Large


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
Westquay
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 180
6th May 2017 16:32  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28214

Oh dear....we have created a monster, Igor

Don't forget, Doug, Taycol brushes need to be lightly oiled. Don't run 'em dry.

Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
6th May 2017 16:53  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28216

Niet! 😉
I gave 'em a drink of light machine oil as per instructions 👍
Dasvidanya tavarich 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
Westquay
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 180
6th May 2017 17:31  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28219

Good man. Take a choliday in an aparachik concrete box on the coast.

M

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
6th May 2017 23:04  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28244

Good evening Martin, Early 1990 just after the 'Wende' I was at a shipyard in Wolgast on the Baltic coast, opposite the island Usedom. The hotel on Usedom was superb, newly renovated to western 4* 😉 Woke up to sunrise over the Baltic. 👍
But when we drove into Wolgast to visit the yard the roads were all gone! Yep, we drove round a corner and CRASH we dropped about 2 feet cos all the road and subsurface had been dug out ready for new roads sometime (Irgendwann!🤔) No signs, no warning! Saw some of the 'concrete boxes' at Peenemunde etc. Awsome!
Strangely, the reason for the visit was a class of 8 500ton Patrol Boats for Brazil! I got the COMMS contract! 😊 wasn't invited to anybodies Dacha though 🤔
Many thanks for your advice and prompting, although I'm not a great woodworker and yacht lover like you I can appreciate the work that goes in and the beauty that comes out. In many ways we seem to be like minded. Cheers, your friendly neighbourhood MONSTER 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
7th May 2017 00:15  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28255

PS @ SONAR; sorry for hijacking your topic! 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug