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>> Home > Forum > Electrical Related > Twin Esc/Mixer
Twin Esc/Mixer
(1056 views)
Author Message
NPJ
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 70
17th Oct 2017 12:06  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/34628

I have an Esc/Mixer from Action Electronics. A P94 which I am thinking of using to control the twin motors on a Richardson Tug.

Now I am very new to this sort of thing and when I unpacked it I found it has two plastic panels attached to the circuit board at right angles and measuring 50mm or 2” up into the air.

I cannot find any reference to these in the paper work.

Are they just to attach the board to something or of greater significance?

Also when connecting up the unit to the motors, are there any ‘special issues’ I need to be aware of?

Help needed please.
NPJ


Attached Files - Click To View Large


NPJ
Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1428
17th Oct 2017 12:36  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/34630

The large protusion will be the heat sinks for the power Mosfets. Looks like a cardboard spacer in between to protect during transit.The case top with slots will fit over the plates to protect.

The green screw connections are for the motors. You take the two motor leads and insert into the connectors and tighten the screws.
If the motor(s) run in the wrong direction just swop over the leads for the relevant connectors(s).

The two black and red wires are for the separate battery supplies. Make sure you connect the red to positive and the black to negative and its is advisable to fit an inline fuse (=


Live long and prosper

Dave
NPJ
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 70
17th Oct 2017 14:07  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/34631

Great. Did not even consider it before your mail.

No slots in the box, but I can see now that you are expected to cut those yourself............

There are two sheets of instructions and I see the shaded areas on the diagram of the box lid but no indication of what they are for.

They assume you know what you are doing............!

Well there are eight holes of different shapes to cut out so that will take a while.

You realise that my next thread is going to be asking on the sound generator!

May not get much further now before the break away for a week.

Thanks for all your help.

NPJ.


NPJ
tomarack
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 24
18th Oct 2017 17:15  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/34722

Hi,
look here, please...
here is a clear overview of where to connect the components,

but it seems that the current product is somewhat different.

http://www.componentshop.co.uk/p94-dual-esc-and-mixer-2-x-20...

http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/Mixers.html


Main principle: if It is not broke - do not repair It !
NPJ
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 70
18th Oct 2017 18:53  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/34724

Thank you for that Tomarack.

When they say "in a box" they do not tell you that the box is separate and that you have to make eight holes of various types yourself before you can install!

Going to have to leave it now until back from a weeks break.

Will be back to you then.

Cheers.

NPJ


NPJ
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
18th Oct 2017 20:34  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/34728

Hi Neil, sorry but they do tell you that. See pic! Extract from the pdf file data on the site, which one can read before ordering!
Check this out-
http://www.componentshop.co.uk/pdf/P94.pdf
You need the slots for the heat sinks cos you seem to have the 20A version.
Which is more than you need for the Richardson I think.
I don't need the slots cos I bought the 10A P94 Lite version.
What do we learn? Slow down and read the manual and small print 😉
Cheers Doug 😎 Have a good break. Kit-Kat? 😉


Attached Files - Click To View Large


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
saga32
(Chief Petty Officer)





Forum Posts: 6
18th Oct 2017 22:05  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/34740

Mention was made earlier of the two sets of red and black wires being for separate batteries. The manual says "Do not under any circumstances connect a separate battery pack to each pair of red and black wires - it may seem logical but you will very probably do fatal damage to the P94"
I would agree with the previous post from NPJ "slow down and read the manual" There's a lot in there.
Hope your tug installation goes well

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
19th Oct 2017 00:37  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/34764

"slow down and read the manual"
That was from me! 😉
Sometimes we have to brake Neil's enthusiasm a little!
Cheers Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
NPJ
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 70
19th Oct 2017 07:28  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/34767

Yes you are quite right Saga32. I am an only child spoilt brat and want everything to happen NOW...........!

My 'tutors' here spotted that a while back and are an invaluable help.

By the way all, why are the battery cables with the Unit nice and thick and the original ones on the motors so so thin and frail looking?

All the best.

NPJ


NPJ
jarvo
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 497
19th Oct 2017 09:43  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/34769

NP, the motors have "light" wiring because thats all they need, low current draw, the esc/mixer is designed for use with large motors as well, so heavy wires heavy current draw.
Doug, aka, RN, is right, check all you have done, both in stages and just before you switch on for the first time. I fried an ESC yesterday by simply screwing the supply leads in the wrong way round. POP, few wisps of magic smoke and £50 down the drain.
Check and re-check helps to stop the disappointment.
Mark


Etherow Model Boat Club
Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1428
19th Oct 2017 09:56  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/34771

Having looked at the P94 self build diagrams the two positive and negative leads are connected together on the circuit board. The positive leads are connected by a thin copper track which I suspect would suffer if two mismatched (voltage wise) batteries were connected to each positive lead. By using two sets of leads the wiring is kept to smaller diameter and matches the two power distribution boards by ACTION.
The instructions do warn against using separate batteries and there is a wiring diagram showing both sets of leads joined and fed via one large fuse to the battery. However the diagram on the description page shows fuses on each red lead which should be ignored and probably accounts for any confusion regarding battery connections.
There can be problems (some are incompatible systems) with 2.4 sets due to the delay in the signal establishing after the ESCs have self set and sometimes when the BEC voltage drops due to high current demands.
This can be overcome by changing the chip to a non self setting version or disabling the onboard BEC and using a separate Rx battery.
Personally I use a separate battery wherever possible.


Live long and prosper

Dave
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
19th Oct 2017 10:20  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/34774

Exactly Dave 👍
Several of us have extolled the virtues of separate Rx batteries.
I feel I have more control over what happens when on start-up and testing. For testing I usually use a variable PSU anyway.
I also prefer to use drive batteries for just that and not waste endurance supplying servos etc.
Finally, for multi-channel setups and/or large servos, winches etc the BEC may simply not have sufficient current capacity.
Cheers Doug (aka 'The red-lead snipper'😉)


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
19th Oct 2017 10:36  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/34776

Spot on Jarvo👍 Shame about the fry-up though!
Neil, the ESC you have is for 20A (which is overkill!) so the wires are dimensioned for 20A plus a good margin for safety. The tiddly motors in Richardson and Southampton probably only draw about a tenth of that ca 2A or so. Therefore 'tiddly' wires as well😉
BTW: don't forget the fuses! The P95 Fuse/Indicator Boards from Action are quite useful for electronic novices, use standard car type blade fuses, and are dead easy to duplicate on a chunk of matrix (Vero) board😊
Happy modding, cheers Doug 😎


Attached Files - Click To View Large


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
NPJ
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 70
19th Oct 2017 14:22  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/34789

Must stop this, but just read your post.

I have put everything away, but can still order stuff..............

Shall I get a couple of those from Bangor so they are here on my return? Anything else like that which can come ready whilst I am on R&R?

NPJ


NPJ
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
19th Oct 2017 15:07  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/34790

Hi Neil, yes get a couple of singles or one dual board as you wish, same price, fiver a chunk. They make wiring up the motors a doddle.
Also think about a few of the switch boards. See link above. Single switches you can use on the 3 on/off toggle switch channels on the Tx; A, B and D. A dual switch version you can use on the two way switch C on the Tx.
Make sure they can switch enough current for the load you want to use; esp. the smoker! Don't know what current yours takes, you may have to suck it and see with a multi-meter. Cheers Doug 😎
PS don't forget to tell 'em to send my commission! 😉😉


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
NPJ
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 70
9th Nov 2017 11:15  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35572

Thanks for that stuff on the PM.

I am assuming the white wire from the motor is positive...........

As you can see I an working in a very tidy fashion..............

Need to first finish the temporary sound set up on the build blog and then move to the battery/motor wiring on there.

All the best.

NPJ


Attached Files - Click To View Large


NPJ
NPJ
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 70
9th Nov 2017 11:26  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35574

Just notice both wires from motors appear white! One on the left is white the other yellow..........

NPJ


NPJ
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
9th Nov 2017 11:27  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35575

My pleasure👍
Re motor wires; I would be more inclined to think that the red one is the positive!! You'll soon find out if you do the rotation check I mentioned in the PM! Have fun and don't blow anything up! Check twice - pay once😉
Cheers Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
9th Nov 2017 11:48  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35576

About to do some checking on my Southampton (after lunch!) Will let you know soon with pics. Wires from ESC to motors in mine are red and black!
Back soon, Doug 😎
BTW: from the propeller form on mine - when going forwards the port prop turns anticlockwise and the stb. prop clockwise.


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
NPJ
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 70
9th Nov 2017 12:25  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35577

I am going for lunch now as well. Another cold chicken salad!

The red lead connects one motor to the other. The white and yellow wires are those that went to the original control board. I though in these circs white was the positive....????

Munch munch.

NPJ


Attached Files - Click To View Large


NPJ
figtree7nts
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 331
9th Nov 2017 13:23  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35582

Hi NPJ

I have the Southampton also. which I repainted and relabeled.
my Southampton came with 27Mhz! But I converted it to 2.4Ghz.
I see your going to use a P94 for independent motor control!
you see the red wire unsolder it! now take the ferrite coils (Black Barrels) and unsolder them as well! then solder leads to each tab on the motors. you should now be able to connect the motors to your P94...

Ed


Attached Files - Click To View Large


"Fair winds calm Seas"
figtree7nts
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 331
9th Nov 2017 13:30  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35583

ONLY REMOVE THE FERRITE COILS IF YOUR GOING TO USE 2.4GHZ.
I found that the Ferrite Coils Interfered with the RC System!


"Fair winds calm Seas"
NPJ
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 70
9th Nov 2017 14:41  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35589

Thank you Figtree.

This model was already 2.4GHz and the images show what is there. No markings on motors that I can see to indicate polarity.

Your 'upgrade' looks good. Given what you did, did you bother with 'earthing'?

On the build site can you indicate how you attached the tyres as mine are very 'flimsy'.

Your help is appreciated.

NPJ


Attached Files - Click To View Large


NPJ
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
9th Nov 2017 15:20  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35590

Thanks Ed!👍
Hi Neil, you also need to remove the wire link between the two inner motor tabs. These are the + connections from the ESCs, when in forwards gear!😉
Cheers Doug😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
9th Nov 2017 15:24  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35591

BTW Ed, I love the mop on the bow 👍
Does the missus use it to clean the bath? 😉😉


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
figtree7nts
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 331
9th Nov 2017 15:41  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35592

Yes, How did you know!
We're constantly arguing over who gets to use it next!


"Fair winds calm Seas"
figtree7nts
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 331
9th Nov 2017 16:20  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35594

Hi NPJ

I took and ran white thread through the holes that are on the tires. Then made a knot on the inside of the bulwark (inner sides) that's it.


Attached Files - Click To View Large


"Fair winds calm Seas"
NPJ
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 70
9th Nov 2017 18:07  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35599

Thanks for that Figtree.

When I did a 'trial' one, the cord pulled through the thin material.

So I am looking for another way should they ever get used for their proper purpose.

All the best.

NPJ


NPJ
figtree7nts
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 331
9th Nov 2017 18:57  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35604

Maybe you can loop the string like I did!


Attached Files - Click To View Large


"Fair winds calm Seas"
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
9th Nov 2017 19:08  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35606

Hi Neil, It's the 'thin' that cuts!😡
You're supposed to use the 'rope' supplied with the boat dampen and twist the end to get it through the holes in the tyres. Then loop de loop 😉
BTW: the tyres seem to me to have an amazing amount of tread left. Most tugs I've seen they are almost bald! Think I'll have to design a Dremel powered Tread Wear Machine 😉


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
figtree7nts
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 331
9th Nov 2017 19:19  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35608

I believe the string that comes with the Southampton is a tad bit thin also flat! That's why I used the thicker string.
RNinMunich My tug came with brand new tires as well!
I know what you mean about the balding tires....
They look better for realism, but who has time to ware down a tiny tire.....😜


"Fair winds calm Seas"
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
9th Nov 2017 19:33  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35611

Hi Ed you have an even older version than I do, the 27Meg job, I have the 40Meg version and the 'rope' is about 1/8" thick and round! Seems OK.

Re tyres: that's why I tongue in cheek suggested a Dremel powered machine to do the job 😉 Cheers Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
NPJ
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 70
9th Nov 2017 20:30  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35612

Figtree and RN. I can see us all sat down rubbing the tyres on a box of Swan Vesta with a glass of wine to hand, but life is too short for that.

Thanks for the tying tip I will refer to it in the Build Blog.

I am going to look hard at the mixer/esc tomorrow as I am not confident that I have understood what has been said.

TFN.

NPJ


NPJ
figtree7nts
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 331
9th Nov 2017 20:40  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35615

NPJ

Take your time and read and study the instruction.
There is no need to rush! If you have any questions.
Feel free to ask as many as you need....


"Fair winds calm Seas"
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1126
9th Nov 2017 21:20  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/35619

Neil, life's never too short for a glass of wine, only too short to drink bad wine! 😉 I have a glass of Rose de Loire before me 😊 Cheers all 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 cheers Doug
NPJ
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 70
22nd Nov 2017 18:04  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/36063

Your advice please....................

Would it be OK to position the Receiver Battery on top of the Esc/Mixer box?

As you can see I have cut the holes as required for the Unit!

All the best.

NPJ


Attached Files - Click To View Large


NPJ
jarvo
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 497
22nd Nov 2017 21:43  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/36068

The basic answer is yes, but, ..... lay esc/mixer on its side, then lay the battery pack along side, just so you don't block the cooling holes in the esc.

Mark


Etherow Model Boat Club
NPJ
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 70
23rd Nov 2017 08:51  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/36074

Thank you for that.

I will see what can be done.

All the best.

NPJ


NPJ
NPJ
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 70
6th Dec 2017 14:01  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/36442

Somewhere RN Doug referred to fuse ratings and I bought more. having found they are hard to change Mark told me about the tool that is used.

In the buying of these things and looking for more space on board, I noticed 'mini blade fuses' are available.

Why are we not using these.......................?

NPJ


NPJ
tomarack
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 24
6th Dec 2017 15:51  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/36444

Hi,
in my model I have flat fuses used in cars.
For this case, it is possible to select different sockets in a specialized store, and replacement of fuses is simple.
Tom


Main principle: if It is not broke - do not repair It !
NPJ
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 70
6th Dec 2017 16:44  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/36447

Thank you for your reply. Yes Tom, these are just as you described.

What I saw and did not realise were available are the same structure but smaller and I thought that would help.

However, there may be a good reason why they are not used here. So I thought this is the place to ask!

All the best.

NPJ


Attached Files - Click To View Large


NPJ
jarvo
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 497
6th Dec 2017 22:13  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/36463

NJP. you can use the mini blade fuses, no problem, the difference is price, standard fuses are about half the price if mini's. Apart from your mounted fuse holders, why not just use crimp spade connectors??? get the right size for the blades no need for a holder or mounting

Mark


Etherow Model Boat Club
NPJ
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 70
7th Dec 2017 09:10  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/36471

Hello Mark. I was just not aware of the choices and followed the 'usual routine'..........

When space is such a consideration, I expected to see more of this type of approach.

Enjoying the journey anyway.

Thanks for your help.

Cheers.

NPJ


NPJ