Cookies used in this website are gluten free, wheat free and dairy free. By using this website you agree to our use of cookies. More Info
Guest
Login Below
Join Us On Social Media!
   
Get The Model Boats App!
Apple App Store
Android app on Google Play


Help Support This Website
£
or enter custom amount

(Non Contributor)

Help support this free
website and donate.



£285 a year is needed to keep the website and apps online. Please consider donating £5 or more to help towards these fees.
All donations are securely managed through PayPal. Amounts donated are not published online.

Many thanks for your kind support.

Model Boats Website Team


Donation History
November 2018: 9 people
October 2018: 9 people
September 2018: 13 people
August 2018: 5 people
July 2018: 8 people
June 2018: 8 people
May 2018: 7 people
April 2018: 24 people
March 2018: 13 people
February 2018: 4 people


Unique Visitors This Month

Website Members

Terms and Conditions
Privacy Policy
Advertising
Contact


Model Boats Website
Active Users (21)
Login or Register
To Remove This Ad

Login or Register
To Remove This Ad
>> Home > Forum > Electrical Related > Cheap motor for a quick fit, but what prop gents?...
Cheap motor for a quick fit, but what prop gents?...
(1004 views)
Author Message
Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 793
14th Aug 2018 18:03  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45059

Hia ll,
I want to fit a drill motor to the Chris-Craft (basically a modified Aerokits Sea Hornet). I want a quick fit, to use with my existing ESCs. I can get a motor for a fiver. I have a shaft, can make couplings, but what size prop would you suggest for such a motor and boat? I want to stay within around 20 Amps for the ESC's sake. I ask only that the boat lifts a bit. Most woodies were not actually that quick, they just looked it.
Thanks for any advice. I can make almost anything, but have little or no experience of working models.

Cheers,
Martin

CB90
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 29
14th Aug 2018 20:14  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45062

Hi,
Lots of factors to take into consideration,
1 specification of motor
2 voltage to be used
3 size and weight of the boat
4 speed you wish to achieve
5 Current limitations (20A)

Besides the above if it is a brushed motor and your limit is 20A I would opt for a propeller of 30mm to 35mm (low pitch).

The old rule for Brushed motor is do not use a prop any bigger than the diameter of the motor. the bigger the prop/pitch the more current and a hot ESC.

Act with caution, put a 15A fuse in line just in case to protect your ESC.

It is difficult to give advice there are lots of unknowns.

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2410
14th Aug 2018 20:51  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45065

Hi Martin,
I assume your Sea Hornet is the 24 x 8 inch version.
Which means your hull is the same as my Sea Scout. You just have a different topside!
As you have seen my Sea Scout with that hull does pretty well on a 35mm prop.
https://youtu.be/zPgYicA0yGw
https://youtu.be/b0BWJ3duzDw
Which drill motor is it? What was the drill voltage?
Cheers, Doug 😎


Attached Files - Click To View Large


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change, - the Courage to change things that I can,
and the Wisdom to know the difference!
Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 793
14th Aug 2018 22:16  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45067

Hi Doug,
yes, very similar sizes. (Nice finish on your Sea Hornet, btw. Mine cost me 99p off ebay!). My drill motor is from a 14.4Volt one, if I can find it! OR, I'll buy a 20,000 rev one from ebay. Roughly the same I should think. I'm going brushed because I have ESCs to use up, apart from the one or two for the Taycols, thanks to your kind provision of electro-boards. I was thinking 30-35mm prop. so that's good to have confirmed. This is actually the first full installation I've ever done in a model boat. My Sea Urchin is free running, the Crash Tender was installed by my Dad with REP single channel stuff and I once put a rudder servo in my brother's borrowed 575 yacht. Everything else (and that's a lot) has been static.
Just got the steering servo mounted and made a sweet wee box for the Rx to help prevent it getting wet.

Motor next.

Cheers,
Martin

CB90
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 29
14th Aug 2018 22:27  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45068

Quick note. Remember your ESC will have a voltage limit as well as a current limit.

Good luck
Roy

Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 793
14th Aug 2018 22:43  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45069

I would be using the 9.6 or 11 volt options probably. No idea, off the cuff what the ESCs are. In fact the bigger ones with heat sinks on them have no writing. They also don't seem to be BEC equipped either. There's a switch on the end of a lead, but nothing out of the other end of the switch!
Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2410
15th Aug 2018 00:27  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45071

Mornin' (😲) Martin.,
First off; the Hornet ain't mine, wish it was 🤔
I had a look on the Lesro Models site to get an idea of what the prop would have to shove! Was surprised to see it is my hull with a different lid!
The current kit is 80 quid BTW.

To the motor / ESC;
Yeah, you could use an 11.1V LiPo on that motor. BUT your ESCs probably are not LiPo SAFE! Which means that they won't have an automatic shut off or slow down function for when the battery is getting near it's Suicide voltage; roughly anything below 3.0V. Some say 2.7 but I don't risk that. So you would have to be cautious on the first runs and frequently check the remaining volts to learn how long you can run before you risk damaging the LiPo.
If you can squash it in how about a 12V 10 cell NiMh? That should give you a good turn of speed with the 35mil prop. Bit heavy though🤔
I use an 11.1V LiPo in my Sea Scout with a 1000kV brushless. i.e. ca 11.100 rpm full bore, and that lifts her snout quite well as you have seen.
Hope you find the motor, you seem to make a habit of 'mislaying' motors!
Have you found the Supermarine yet?
Apropos Supermarine; I've just been asked to renovate one 😉 Looking forward to that so I can see it's coil construction first hand. Will help me refine the mod instructions for you.😉
ESCs; mail me any printing on them and photos and maybe I can identify them and their capabilities.
The switch makes me think maybe they do have BEC! The leads don't go nowhere cos it's only there to switch on the ESC / BEC. In my experience only ESCs with BEC have such a switch.
Easy way to find out; set up an RX with a servo, plug the ESC lead into the RX, stick a battery on the ESC WITHOUT motor, switch on the TX and the ESC (move the switch to the end where two wires are connected) and see if the servo responds to the TX or any LEDs flash on the RX.
Or just measure the volts across the red and black wires on the RX plug!

If the ESC has a heat sink I don't think you need worry too much about current capability. Use your natty new Wattmeter to measure the current drawn by the motor as you run it slowly up to full speed. 😉
Don't think you need worry about volts either; all but the teeny weeny ones (like the fingernail size 3.7V ESCs I just bought for my Plastic Magic ships with only a 1S LiPo supply) can normally handle at least 12V, it's current that usually kills 'em😡

Sorry; Your electro-boards are still here, haven't been too mobile lately🤔
So I ordered some prepaid DHL labels (arriving Thursday) and will then get them to collect your parcel from me. Will email when they're finally underway.
Cheers, Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change, - the Courage to change things that I can,
and the Wisdom to know the difference!
Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 793
15th Aug 2018 10:12  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45077

Hi Doug, thanks for the info. I'll try all that this coming weekend. I'm pre-occupied with grandson and getting the cylinder heads done on the Vincent master pattern currently. That's been around for a year now and is very near completion, so I tend to keep weekends for my stuff only.

I'll take some pics. of my ESCs for you. One small one is a Simprop 18Amp. That much is printed on it. So, I assume OK for a smaller motor.
The others I don't even remember getting. But I have often been sent stuff as a thankyou for making bits or sending materials that they couldn't get hold of. I got some small brushless motors that way. A 2012? Would that power a smaller boat with a couple of LiPos? I'll do some pics of those too.

Don't forget to add the postage of my stuff to the bill.

Cheers,
Martin

Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 793
15th Aug 2018 10:44  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45078

Doug, just seen the prices of 12V NiMh packs! I'd be better off using a 3s LiPo! I can get one of those from the local model shop for 15 quid. I could use the inrunner I have just got for the outboard in the Sea Hornet and just get one of those brushless ESCs. Jeez, this is all so expensive!

Cheers,
Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2410
15th Aug 2018 12:30  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45081

Hi Martin,
Welcome to the world of 'working' models😉
It also cost me a small fortune when I started to get into brushless and LiPo stuff last year after retiring.
That Simprop ESC should be fine for your Supermarine (if you ever find it 😁)

See what you mean about the prices for bigger NiMhs 🤔
OK, 'Go LiPo young man', BUT remember what I wrote above; Watch 'em!

Any other printing on that 2012 motor? Maker? kV rating? A pic might help. What do you mean by 'a couple of LiPos'? 2S?

Re Brushless ESCs; have a look at the Turnigy range at HobbyKing, or Quicrun at HobbyWing.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/power-systems/speed-controllers/...

https://www.hobbywingdirect.com/collections/quicrun-brushless-system

You can probably find a UK shop for these; Google them!
I use the 30A Quicrun version in my Sea Scout works fine with my Propdrive 2830 1000kV motor and a 3S LiPo. See pic.
Cheers, Doug 😎


Attached Files - Click To View Large


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change, - the Courage to change things that I can,
and the Wisdom to know the difference!
Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 793
15th Aug 2018 14:20  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45087

Right, took some pics., typically not great, thanks to this useless bloody camera needing the centre of the sun to take a decent clear picture.
The writing on the chrome motor says 2408-21-T3. There's nothing on the other one. The ESC just says ESC and Made in China, but then what ain't?

I think what I'll do is actually finish the boats first, then buy in the necessary as by then I will have sold some stuff to pay for it without seeming selfish to the dear bride.

Martin


Attached Files - Click To View Large

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2410
15th Aug 2018 15:04  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45088

OK, found one, 'discontinued product' 🤔
Seems Tower pro only make gas engines these days.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/towerpro-brushless-outrunner-240...

Specs
"TP 2408-21
The most widely used towerpro motor available today. the 2408-21T is often used in GWS (means Grand Wing System, USA apparently!) upgrades. Paired with just an 18A besc, this motor is an excellent and cheap way to upgrade small planes to brushless.
An RD1047, RD9070 or 8040 size propeller are the best choice, with the RD9070 and 8040 giving the best thrust and amp draw balance.

For 2-3 Li-Poly Cells (7.2-12.6V)
31 mm diameter x 62 mm length
Maximum current: 13A
Weight: 50.2 grams / 1.77 oz
Comes with stick mount plastic frame
Firewall mount capable
Comes with two prop nuts and one washer
3mm shaft diameter
10mm x 10mm stick mount
Kv: 1750
9 Stator Poles, 12 Magnets"

So it's OK for a 3S LiPo, which will give about 19.400rpm OFF LOAD.
Max current 13A ON LOAD.

No way of finding the other little one without at least a hint🤔
Looks like an Outrunner plane motor as well. Suck it and see!
Probably similar specs to the Tower motor.

The two brushed ESCs should be good for your Taycols as none of them should take much more than 10A or so. Use 15A fuses, as I have already fitted to your converter boards.😉
Bon chance mon ami, Cheers, Doug 😎
Re GWS;
https://www.google.com/search?q=GWS+models&client=firefox-b&...

Pic is a typical GWS small plane, called 'Slow Stick'. If I had one I would name it 'Spindle-shanks' 😁


Attached Files - Click To View Large


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change, - the Courage to change things that I can,
and the Wisdom to know the difference!
Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 793
15th Aug 2018 17:13  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45094

Aha, I assumed it was an airyplane motor. I had an Ugly Stick once, given to me with a speed 400 motor and a gearbox with a bent shaft. So the motor came on board as a spare and the gearbox was dumped, but I stopped doing aircraft and so gave the Ugly Stik back to its reluctant owner. There's a whole range of Ugly Stik type things, all ugly and odd looking but apparently they fly very well. Looks like your photo shows a brushed 380 type motor with gearing too.
Not sure about the 62mm length! It's way shorter than that. Has, as you can see, a flange mount. There's no mount for the blue one. The magnetism is amazing. I can hardly turn the shaft with fingers.

So, do you reckon the motors would work in a boat?

Cheers,
Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2410
15th Aug 2018 17:18  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45095

Hi Martin, just off for dinner with the GF so will answer later, cheers, Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change, - the Courage to change things that I can,
and the Wisdom to know the difference!
Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 793
15th Aug 2018 18:19  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45096

Bon appetites, mon Braves.
I have stopped doing Vincent heads (my neck feels like it'll break) and started looking for stuff. The Supermarine is, I hope to hopes, in the loft. But, whilst looking for the drill motor, I found the speed 400 from the electric Ugly Stik aeroplane. I'm wondering if that will power the Sea Hornet. Not sure what voltage they run at, so I'm orff to check that out.

Also found the Hornet II model I carved in the hope I could get it scanned and sections (i.e. frames) made. 2 down, 2 to go! Fingers crossed.

Cheers,
Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2410
15th Aug 2018 22:05  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45099

Evenin' Martin,
Attached the Graupner Speed 400 specs. Pic 1 is the brushed version nominal 7.2V, pic 2 the brushless nominal 11.1V.
Don't think the brushless 400 is any good for your Hornet, not enough shove? Ca 14400rpm OFF LOAD with a 3S LiPo.
The brushed version might be though. It should run OK up to MAX 9.6V.
Try 'em and compare.

The 62mm in the TP2408 seems to include the shaft length!
It might well drive your Hornet but maybe not record breaking😉
The other, blue one, might! But who knows as it's anonymous 😲
On closer inspection I suspect the blue one is an inrunner!?
Cheers, Doug 😎
PS: Specs for your Simprop ESC
"5 bis 10V. Strom: 12A (25Amax). 5-8 NiCd / NiMH. BEC: 5V/1A.Gold-2mm Buchsen. Maße: 27x11, 5x8, 5mm. Gewicht: 5g. "
I.e. 5 to 10V, Current 12A (25A MAX). So OK for your Taycols on a 6 to 9.6V NiMh👍 Not sure if it does backuds though, probably not!


Attached Files - Click To View Large


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change, - the Courage to change things that I can,
and the Wisdom to know the difference!
Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 793
15th Aug 2018 23:46  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45103

Thanks, Doug,
the blue brushless is held by something that grabs the smaller cylinder and the rest spins round, ergo, outrunner. If I ever make a lightweight I might try one in there. The brushed 400 I will try in the Sea Hornet. Gotta be worth a try. And that Simprop should be OK for it, n'est ce pas?
What concerns me is the lack of sizes available in props. They all seem to start at 35mm which might be a little too hefty for the 400, but I can't find a 30mm anywhere.

I also found the Hornet II I carved a while back with a view to getting it scanned for frame sections, so that's another wee job to finish off. I am looking forward to doing that one.

Cheers,
Martin


Attached Files - Click To View Large

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2410
16th Aug 2018 00:04  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45104

Hi Martin
have a look at the Rabeosch range at Cornwall Model Boats.
https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/m2-raboesch.ht...
Don't know what diameter your shafts are but the 156 series might do what you want and they start at 20m (EDIT: Oops! read mm please😲), as do most other series.
https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/R156-M2.html
for the 3mm shaft versions
https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/m3-raboesch.ht...
or 4mm
https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/m4-raboesch.ht...

I am gradually changing all my long thin WW2 ships to the Rabeosch 162 series with excellent results.😊
https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/R162-M3.html

Now back to some fish cutter bashing! I've got less and less boat😲but more and more space for motor and batteries an' stuff!😊
Blog update soon👍
Cheers, Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change, - the Courage to change things that I can,
and the Wisdom to know the difference!
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2410
16th Aug 2018 00:28  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45105

Agree on the 'blue' motor Martin.
Looks like the mounting flange, as on the Tower pro motor, is missing🤔

BTW: Is that per chance your bald patch in that natty ally covered gent's racer? 😁😁


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change, - the Courage to change things that I can,
and the Wisdom to know the difference!
Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 793
16th Aug 2018 08:26  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45108

Doug, thanks for the reference to Raboesch, but 12 quid a prop ain't gonna happen I'm afraid! I shall have to find some under 30mm plastics somewhere though, just in case they are what's needed. Either that or cut down 35mm props.

Me, in Hornet II? Ha! I should be so lucky. I've still only ever been in one speedboat despite loving them all my life (apart from my own Albatross of course, which I only ever got one go in before the river speed police moaned at me).

Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2410
16th Aug 2018 16:47  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45113

I can only lead the horse to water ........... 😉😁


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change, - the Courage to change things that I can,
and the Wisdom to know the difference!
Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 793
16th Aug 2018 19:44  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45118

But you can't make him spend his spondooliks, yeah I know. Found the prop shaft for the Sea Hornet. It appears to be M3. Knowing my luck it'll be 1/8th" Haha.

Cheeres,
Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2410
16th Aug 2018 20:11  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45119

Raboesch also do imperial threads Martin😉
https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/raboesch-176-s...

CMB also have some Graupner plastic props (😡) but not much of a selection. Small sizes only with 2mm thread. 🤔 Turn your shaft down?
https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/plasticm2.html
Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change, - the Courage to change things that I can,
and the Wisdom to know the difference!
Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 793
16th Aug 2018 21:13  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45121

Problem with Raboesch props, Doug (apart from cost) is that they're very scale boatish. I will need something a bit sporty and 2 bladed. I could make one, of course, but have no idea where to start shapewise apart from copy a real fast runabout prop. Silver soldering a prop ain't a problem for me. It's a damned faff though! Here's the boat I'm kinda modelling the Sea Hornet mods on.

Cheers,
Martin


Attached Files - Click To View Large

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2410
16th Aug 2018 21:55  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/45122

My mistook! Thought it was a scale boat.
OK, Try nosing around here
https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/propellers_451...
There's at least a 25mm version, M3.
Or here, from 30mm, only M4 though
https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/propellers_230...

FYI attached is the current Raboesch catalogue, lots of useful stuff, not just props.
BTW: my Sea Scout, same hull, uses a Raboesch brass 30mm from the 162 series and she's sporty enough don't you think?
Whatever, Happy Hunting👍
Cheers, Doug 😎


Attached Files - Click To View Large


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Grant me the Serenity to accept things I can't change, - the Courage to change things that I can,
and the Wisdom to know the difference!