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>> Home > Forum > Electrical Related > All hooked up, nowt happens...
All hooked up, nowt happens...
(945 views)
Author Message
Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 796
16th Nov 2018 21:02  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48074

Hello all, since I keep the weekend for me I thought I'd try hooking up all the lecktrickery for my brushless motor. It's one of they outrunning tiddlers. I have a 3S LiPo which is firing on all cylinders at 3.79 volts per. I plug it in to the ESC, some Chinese one I got recently. I soldered wires to a T type plug that fits the Overlander battery pack. I'd already soldered the 2mm connectors to the other end of the ESC wires and protected them with heat shrink. Plugged tested (6.2 volts) Nimhs into Rx and it starts flashing, then plugged ESC into a channel and the motor, yes , the MOTOR starts beeping! How the hell can that happen? I plug the battery in and the motor beeps even quicker! What on earth is happening? Needless to say, no rotation, buzzing, whistling, just beeps from a motor, clear as you like!
Please help. I am already teetering on the edge of getting rid of all my working stuff as it takes up space and is such a damned faff! But what I have, I would like to work. Just long enough to prove it all.

Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2483
16th Nov 2018 22:24  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48077

Dear Martin,
the motor is beeping because the ESC is telling you it needs programming.
It sends a series of pulses to the motor to do this.
Programming means telling the ESC where is neutral on the throttle stick, and where are full ahead and full astern.
Check the ESC instructions to see how to do this.
If you get stuck again tell me exactly which TX, RX and ESC you are using and I'll see what I can do.
Cheers, Doug
BTW; IF you do decide to ditch all your 'working stuff' please send me an inventory for first dibs!! 😁👍


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 796
17th Nov 2018 00:47  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48081

Hi Doug, as you can probably guess, I have as much chance of programming an ESC as flying with my own wings to Munich! The ESC didn't come with any instructions. I didn't know they needed them! More to the point, how the Hell can a motor beep? Where's the beeping kit in a motor with one moving part?
So, now what. It's a Flysky pistol grip 3 channel (third is a switch) set of Tx and pre bound Rx. The ESC ? Gawd knows, a flat thing inside a big yellow heat shrink casing. I got it from China recently. All I can do is take a picture of it with my nice new camera tomorrow. Does it matter which way round those three wires go on the motor?

I'll post pictures tomorrow.

Thanks,
Martin

Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 796
17th Nov 2018 01:01  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48082

If the ESC has a BEC in it, do I have to forget the Rx pack of Nimhs? The ebay listing of something very similar says it has a BEC. Would it be better to just use the Nimhs, in which case how do I treat the ESC Rx wiring? just ignore it?

Martin

Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 796
17th Nov 2018 13:48  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48089

Here's a pic of the set-up, with the ESC central. Rx is in a little styrene box I made for it.
Shows the motor too on its mount.

Martin

And yes I got the heat shrink on the battery leads the wrong way round, but had so much trouble soldering the bloody wires to that stupid t shaped plug I couldn't be arsed to change em over!


Attached Files - Click To View Large

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2483
17th Nov 2018 15:58  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48090

Hi Martin,
Looks like this one
XXD HW30A 30A Brushless Motor ESC For Airplane Quadcopter
Which means it ain't got no backuds! But I don't suppose that bothers you.
Attached is the manual as pdf.
Before you can run the ESC you have to program the type of battery; LiPo or NiMH. The ESC then sets the correct cut off voltage to protect the battery from deep discharge. See second page of pdf file for instructions.
The ESC has a 5V 2A BEC. If you use a separate RX battery you MUST disconnect the small red wire from the RX plug!
Bon chance, Cheers, Doug 😎


Attached Files - Click To View Large


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 796
17th Nov 2018 19:29  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48092

Doug, I did briefly connect both Rx battery and ESC to the Rx. Does that mean I've done summat bad?

Also the pdf doesn't open. How can I do that?

Cheers,
Martin

steve-d
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 45
17th Nov 2018 23:41  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48098

Before Doug shouts at you.
Click on the PDF, It opens as if it a photo, top left click on download, go find it in your downloads.

Steve

rapidair65
(Seaman)





Forum Posts: 5
18th Nov 2018 07:55  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48101

Following this with some interest as I am about to convert my Arun lifeboat to a brushless set up using Turnigy Aerodrive motors and marine esc. Hoping to keep the two lead acid batteries for power as they make good ballast!

Lordgord
(Petty Officer)





Forum Posts: 9
18th Nov 2018 08:28  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48102

I can only sympathise, I have had these lecky problems since I started building some time back. My solution was to find a friendly "electric savvy" builder to help me out by wiring one of my boats for me, I now have a system I Can use as a pattern.👍

Haverlock
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 503
18th Nov 2018 09:37  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48103

first question which no one seems to have mentioned is :- did you have the transmitter switched on BEFORE you powered up the receiver/ esc ? If not de power the receiver and try switching on the transmitter .

Most of these systems have an interlock to prevent the motor running if there is no transmitter.


"that's not a bug its just an undocumented creature."

Sir Terence David John "Terry" Pratchett, OBE (28 April 1948 - 12 March 2015)
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2483
18th Nov 2018 09:38  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48104

Hi Martin, maybe! Maybe not! You might be lucky.
Check the RX with just a servo plugged in somewhere.
Then try setting up the ESC according to the instructions I sent.
Basically all you have to do is tell it what type of battery you are using. Then it sets the correct 'Cut Off' voltage.

BTW: since this is a 'One way only' ESC before you switch the system on make sure the throttle stick is pulled right back. Otherwise the motor will start up straight away. Mind yer fingas!! 😡
Also check that the throttle channel is not reversed at the TX - like most Futaba sets for some crazy reason - or again the motor will start up with the throttle pulled back.

PDF: as Steve says; click on the Icon, then on [Download] in the top left corner. Windows should then offer you the choice of 'Open' or 'Save'.
Click 'Save' and Windows will ask where you want to put the file.

Cheers, Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2483
18th Nov 2018 09:55  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48105

Hi rapidair65,
Most Brushless ESCs seem to assume that you are using either LiPo or NiMh batteries. It needs to know which so it can set the correct cut off voltage per cell, e.g. 3.=V for Lipo. From the applied voltage it can work out how many cells and the correct cut off.

If you are using two SLA I assume 2x6V in series giving 12V.
So tell the ESC that you are using NiMh and it will assume 10 cells @ 1.2V / cell.
I'll be interested to hear how you get on as an SLA has nominally 2V per cell!! You should get away with it as the ESC checks the total voltage applied - it has no access to individual cells 😉 It will probably let the battery voltage go down to 11V before stopping the motor(s)😲
Good luck, Cheers, Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2483
18th Nov 2018 10:20  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48106

Hi Haverlock,
Good point! I took that as a 'given' since it is 'standard procedure' to stop servos and motors going uncontrolled wild.
Rule for the RX is OLOF, On Last Off First.
Cheers, Doug


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
rapidair65
(Seaman)





Forum Posts: 5
18th Nov 2018 10:49  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48108

Hi Doug
I’m using 2 x12v SLA wired through an action electronics parallel board to give 12v. I hope to feed the power through the existing action electronics fused power distribution board which will feed the two esc and all my on board lighting, radar scanner etc.
Cheers Selwyn

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2483
18th Nov 2018 11:18  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48109

Sounds good to me Selwyn 👍
That board is a sensible (essential) idea in that setup. Stops a stronger battery trying to charge the weaker one.👍
I have several Action Electronics modules as well (duplicated some 😁)
They're good, well made stuff.
Anyway, your brushless ESCs will 'see' 12V so setting them up as running on NiMh should do the trick. If you set them up as 'LiPo' they might think it is a 3S 11.1V battery and try to let the volts go down to 9V before cutting off!! Not good for the SLAs 😡
IF they assume it is a 4S 14.8V Lipo they will cut off at 4x3.0 i.e. 12V which will drastically shorten your run time; you'd have to keep the SLAs near fully charged (13.6V) all the time.
Bon chance mon ami, let us know how it goes.
All the best, Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
rapidair65
(Seaman)





Forum Posts: 5
18th Nov 2018 11:46  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48110

Thanks Doug, all this electrickery baffles me but I have managed to pass the first hurdle, soldering the EC5 cannectors to the power leads! I'll post as things progress.
Selwyn

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2483
18th Nov 2018 12:07  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48111

It's not rocket science Selwyn, just stick to the rules and you'll be alright.
If you're not sure about something, just ASK before the magic smoke appears 😡
There's lots of 'been there done that' guys here on the site who can help out.
Cheers, Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 796
18th Nov 2018 14:15  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48113

Doug, just managed to download the PDF. I hadn't noticed the download sign and it just put up a bigger PDF picture. BUT...what the hell all that stuff means I have no idea. 1 Beep, 2 Beeps, 3 beeps. My motor just beeped continually. And no, I didn't know the Tx had to go on first either. It's been a LONG time since I played with RC gear of any sort and that was much simpler than all this modern stuff.
I've put it all away now, so I'll have another go during the week and see if I can get any sense from it.
I can't ask any locals as they're all old tuggers with basic electricks.

Cheers,
Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2483
18th Nov 2018 14:32  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48114

Hi Martin,
You don't have to know what it MEANS you just have to do exactly what it says. It's written in surprisingly good and clear English compared with most!

Even with the old 'dumb' RC the rule was always TX on first and off last.
Just to stop the servos and motors going bonkers and maybe chopping your fingers off.😡 Take it slowly and go step by step and you'll be OK.

Cheers, Doug
BTW; thanks for waking me up with the foghorn 👍 nearly missed the 4th frame of the Sullivan vs Trump duel. No not THAT Trump 😁


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 796
19th Nov 2018 11:04  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48132

Doug, the instructions tell me to do what you guys have as to order of switching on, but the beep bit doesn't actually explain what to do which is what I meant by what it means.

Foghorn? What foghorn? Sullivan, Trump?

Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2483
19th Nov 2018 12:04  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48133

See attached Martin,
Same procedure to open as with the pdf.

"Foghorn? What foghorn? "
The one that sounds to tell me that a new post has arrived on the site.
See above the list of Active users on the right of the screen - [Toggle Sound].

"Sullivan," Ronnie 'The Rocket' O'Sullivan.

"Trump?" Judd 'The Ace in the Pack' Trump.
Finalists in the Northern Ireland Open Snooker Championship.
One of the 'Home Nations Series'; England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
Alles klar Herr Kommissar?
Cheers, Doug 😎


Attached Files - Click To View Large


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 796
20th Nov 2018 08:28  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48139

Thanks, Doug,
I take it that throttle down would mean throttle back with a pistol set like the Flysky? Also, it's a Lipo I want to tell it about. I went nuts and bought one as it's a brushless motor.
So as soon as I hear a beep I yank back on the throttle trigger? Let's hope it doesn't just beep continuously like it did before.

Foghorn? I had no idea it was there.

Norn Airish Snookrr soo et ezz. Don't do sports.

Cheers,
Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2483
20th Nov 2018 09:34  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48140

Mornin' Martin,
I've never used a trigger throttle (and never want to!) but I suspect that yanking back is Full throttle, which means you need to push it forward for programming!! Corresponding to stick back (or down) on a normal two stick set. Which is motor stop on such an aircraft ESC with no bacckuds.
Cheers, Doug 😎
PS: just checked the manual for a typical Flysky Pistol Grip set (usual Chinglish gibberish🤔) but it confirms that trigger hard back is 'Full Ahead' !!
BTW: since you appear to be using an aircraft ESC on a Car/Boat radio set (not a good idea!) make sure that before you switch on the RX that the throttle trigger is pushed right forward. Otherwise the motor will go off half cock straight away. If you release the trigger it will probably go to the 'Half Ahead' position. So mind your fingers.😡


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
boaty
(Admiral)





Forum Posts: 63
20th Nov 2018 10:50  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48141

Hi Westquay

It sounds Doug has got it right. I only went over to brushless 3 years ago when I returned to fast electric. All my existing models at the time had brushed motors installed and I did become confused with the "new technology".

Having three wires from the motor to the ESC was a bit difficult to comprehend but as the boat was an RTR it was helpful due to having an instruction manual with it.
It just takes time and experience to get use to such changes but it will be right in the end.

My only experience of a non starter was back in 1976, this being the only time I had a date with a married woman. I had a Lotus Elan then and there was no room in the back and it would have been a waste of time calling the AA to resolve it.😁😎

Boaty


Dave Keech
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2483
20th Nov 2018 11:44  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48142

You're as BAD as me Boaty 😉 but I had a Rover 2000 with fully reclining seats back then - no problem 😁

Re 3 wires on a brushless. Simply put, this is analogous to a 3 phase AC motor (such as used in bathroom extractor fans etc).
If you apply a single phase AC voltage to an AC motor it just twitches backwards and forwards in the same place as the voltage crosses from the positive to the negative half cycle. Thus 3 phases are applied giving 3 'shoves' in sequence to keep things moving. A starter capacitor is also needed to give the motor a 'belt' to shove it off.

Similarly with a brushless:
the ESC senses where the motor armature is in relation to the magnet poles and applies a DC pulse to the next armature coil in sequence.
When you shove the throttle up the pulse width lengthens applying a longer shove and thus more energy and speed.
Pulling the throttle back with a reversible ESC just turns the pulse train upside down so that negative DC pulses are applied to the motor, reversing the magnetic field created in the armature and thus the rotation.
Simple really.
It's the sensing and timing done inside the ESC that's the tricky bit, which is why we had to wait about a hundred years from the invention of the AC motor (Nikolai Tesla) until we could use them in models - thanks to micro-electronics.
Here endeth today's seminar 😁😁
Happy brushlessing Folks, cheers, Doug 😎
Hmmm, perhaps that's why electric toothbrushes use brushed motors! 😁😜


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2483
20th Nov 2018 11:48  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48143

BTW Martin, going back to your original post-
"Plugged tested (6.2 volts) Nimhs into Rx and it starts flashing ..."
Did you check that the RX is Bound to the TX?
E.g. by trying it with just a simple servo before messing with the ESC?

Doug


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
rapidair65
(Seaman)





Forum Posts: 5
20th Nov 2018 15:54  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48144

The Arun lives! All wiring completed this morning, Tx turned on, stick full forward, boat turned on, esc bleeped, stick to neutral, more bleeps, advanced throttle, both props turn in correct direction for ahead propulsion, motors stop when returned to neutral. No reverse yet so it looks like the esc will need programming. Down at Derby Model Boat Club tomorrow to consult our programming guru. Result!👍

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2483
20th Nov 2018 16:22  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48145

Well done that man! Bravo Zulu 👍
At the 'more beeps' stage I think maybe you should have moved the stick back to tell the ESC where reverse is. Your Guru should sort that OK.
Also I have found that many reversible ESCs are set up by default (Out Of The Box) for cars with a brake function activated.
This means that before going astern it just brakes the motor and stops.
You then have to give the stick another shove backwards to actually go astern. Irritating but correctable by changing the ESC mode from
Forward / Brake / Reverse to just Forward / Reverse.😉
Have fun, cheers, Doug 😎
PS Pics / vid of the action some time ? 👍


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
rapidair65
(Seaman)





Forum Posts: 5
22nd Nov 2018 07:57  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48211

Arun now sorted. Programming card did not work so I translated the pidgin english instructions for the ESC and it worked using the Tx. I now have forward and reverse, correct prop rotation and no battery protection. Also the water cooling system for the ESC works with the water exiting from the exhausts on the stern. On the down side the nav lights have stopped working! Pictures of installation and finished boat later.

Westquay
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 796
22nd Nov 2018 11:35  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48215

Doug, the Flysky comes pre-bound at the factory. Civilised! I have tried it with an old servo and it worked a treat. Haven't got anything done on the ESC yet. I'll try again at the weekend.

Cheers,
Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2483
22nd Nov 2018 11:46  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/48218

That sounds good Martin.👍
So all you need to do now is be a bit quick on the trigger at the weekend.
Shove it forward as soon as you hear the first beep, then switch the ESC OFF. Then power everything down (RX then TX) and when you switch on again all should be hunky-dory. The Lone Ranger rides again 😉
Cheers, Doug


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug