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>> Home > Forum > Electrical Related > Mtronics W-tail marine mixer connections.
Mtronics W-tail marine mixer connections.
(843 views)
Author Message
Colin H.
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 468
12th Feb 2019 15:34  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50344

Have decided to remove the vintage rc gear from my recent acquisition and put in 2.4ghz system,
I am hoping to be able to control the 2 motors via 2 ESC's and Mtronics w-tail mixer, (which I already have) but I have don't have any instructions or diagrams for fitting it. Can anyone help me please. BTW it will be a 6 volt system.
Thanks in advance Colin.


Fair winds and calm waters,
COLIN.
TOWN3810
(Sub-Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 16
12th Feb 2019 15:52  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50345

Hi Mtronix provide excellent after sales service on their products 01943 461482 They will provide a wiring diagram But why not control each esc from 2 separate channels on your transmitter and forget complex mixers Just a thought or it might be the wine talking again Cheers Ian

JOHN
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 24
12th Feb 2019 17:23  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50349

Hi Colin
will this help
john


Attached Files - Click To View Large

Colin H.
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 468
12th Feb 2019 18:39  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50350

Thanks John, that's a great help, am I correct in thinking that if I connect to 2 ESC's and 1 rudder servo it will control the motor speed to help turning.
Cheers Colin.


Fair winds and calm waters,
COLIN.
Colin H.
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 468
12th Feb 2019 19:13  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50352

Thanks Ian. I'll get in touch with them.
Good thoughts, but with my rheumatism I think controlling 2 motors separately and also the rudder would be quite difficult for me.
Cheers Colin


Fair winds and calm waters,
COLIN.
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2549
12th Feb 2019 19:35  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50354

Hi Colin,
Try this version, P94 for brushed motors, from Action Electronics at Component Shop. Only throttle and rudder inputs with automatic mixing. I have one of these I intend to use for my long thin destroyer, or maybe the Graf Spee.
Or the P40 for Brushless, same operating principle.
https://www.componentshop.co.uk/action-electronics/mixers-mu... I may get one of these for my PT109.
heers, Doug 😎


Attached Files - Click To View Large


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Colin H.
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 468
12th Feb 2019 21:50  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50355

Thanks Doug,
So right for the job, but so expensive, I am trying to use what I have or can get cheaply. As you know I am rubbish with electronics. This is for my latest aquisition, a vintage model paddle Steamer with individual paddle motors and a rudder. The old system of a digimax 4 needs updating. How's the taycol coming on, my first big show is at Easter and I was hoping to include the Sea Commander.
Cheers Colin.


Attached Files - Click To View Large


Fair winds and calm waters,
COLIN.
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2549
12th Feb 2019 22:17  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50356

Evenin' Colin,
Understand. But; Not sooooo expensive when you consider that you are effectively getting 2 ESCs in one compact board, plus the rudder mixer. With the Mtronics gizmo you still need the separate ESCs, which also makes the wiring messier!🤔

Taycol and converter board are packed up and will be on it's way to you per DHL this week. Ought to be with you before April!!😉
Look forward to the pics of the Commander renovation.
The paddler looks neat as well👍
Cheers, Doug 😎
PS there are also outputs for controlling Smokers or Sound Modules on the AC board.


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Colin H.
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 468
13th Feb 2019 07:30  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50361

Thanks Doug, I will have to put one on my birthday list, only 5 weeks away. Last comment on your message I assume you are talking about the all in one system.
Just off to the quacks for my 4 weekly blood tests. Bye for now.
Cheers Colin.


Fair winds and calm waters,
COLIN.
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2549
13th Feb 2019 08:32  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50366

Mornin' Colin,
Correct, I was referring to the P94 version.
BTW: the 20A version is only the 10A version with heat sinks added to the power transistors! I figured it wasn't worth 10 quid for a few chunks of ally so I made my own! 😉
Trust that the tests showed you still have blood!! 😁
Cheers, Doug 😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
JOHN
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 24
13th Feb 2019 10:32  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50368

hi ya Colin, sorry for the delay - but I am going to open up a can of worms here. Although a lot of people use the 'Y' tail or the 'W' tail mixer from MTroniks or other Companies to actually mix two speed controllers and a rudder movement in the marine environment, (personally) I don't think this is effective as a dedicated marine mixer. The reason for this, is, I built the Forceful tug a little while ago and I incorporated the 'W' tail mixer in it for independent control of the 2 paddles and the rudder and when this model did 'sea trials' 😊 on the lake & in the test tank (the bath) 👍I was never 100% happy with this. It didn't seem to perform quite right, especially in reverse. The model seemed to go better in one direction than the other. One motor always seemed to lead the other motor so therefore the model would steer off course and you were always correcting it. When I eventually checked the speed of each motor individually with a tachometer I found that one motor was indeed increasing in revs so - I took out the 'W' mixer and went for tank steering (using 2 individual sticks on the transmitter). This was a lot better and saved the day at the lake. Then I wend and had a look at what mixers are available and yes there is the ACTion P94 which in my eyes is extremely expensive - but - there are one or two on Ebay market but also there is a guy called Alan Bond he runs a company called Forge Electronics and they make an independent mixer which I use myself. I find it extremely good. 👍

the name of the game though is for yourself to try setting up the 'W' tail mixer and playing around with it or you could look at individual mixers that do not have the speed controllers built in with them i.e. there is one from ACTion as well, there is one from Forge and as I say there are 2 or 3 off the web market place.

Have a look - here are a couple of pics of the Forceful and my set up. The speed controllers I am using in this tug are Electronize and it's Alan Bond's original mixer which used to be sold from Technobots - but he opened up business on his own and I will put a link on when I find it.
http://www.forge-electronics.co.uk/

http://www.forge-electronics.co.uk/


Attached Files - Click To View Large

Colin H.
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 468
13th Feb 2019 11:28  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50369

Thanks John, so much to think about, I will have to do some more research, your set up looks good, my motor's are gear drive to the paddles. They run at the same speed on one or two ESC's. If I use two sticks on the tx for tank steering what happens with the rudder.
Sorry for my ignorance, multi motor control is very new to me. I'm still learning, with the help of the this site and the knowledge that the members are willing to share with us.
Cheers Colin.


Fair winds and calm waters,
COLIN.
JOHN
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 24
13th Feb 2019 13:02  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50370

Hi ya Colin
I am going to post a link which I hope will explain about tank steering and other various forms of steering. Also, I will post a little pic on which is from the same site. by the way, I don't think any of us stop learning about modelling - no matter how long we have been doing it. It is on par of us understanding women we never will 😊 .
https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/Common/Electrics/Twin_moto...


Attached Files - Click To View Large

JOHN
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 24
13th Feb 2019 13:08  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50371

hi ya Doug, I think you may find there is a difference between the 20 amp and 10 amp version of the P94 other than aluminium heat sink. Circuit board is slightly different as well 👍 John

Colin H.
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 468
13th Feb 2019 16:13  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50373

Thanks John, good link, I will have to save the pennies to get an all in one unit.
Cheers Colin.


Fair winds and calm waters,
COLIN.
Trillium
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 74
13th Feb 2019 16:15  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50374

Hi Colin,
I have just been catching up on this commentary which was prompted by your initial question. In running my 'Forceful' tug I found that varying paddle speeds, i.e. a mixer, is unnecessary for steering. I run it with the paddles at the same speed, and the rudder handles the steering alone just fine. I wonder if you have run your model, and confirmed that you have to vary paddle speeds to turn? If so, another option is to replace the rudder with a bigger one.
Roy

TOWN3810
(Sub-Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 16
13th Feb 2019 22:56  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50379

Hi in the old days before mixers i seem to remember micro switches arranged one either side of the rudder helm When steering reached full helm one motor was switched out Cheers Ian

ChrisG
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 30
14th Feb 2019 16:27  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50396

Hi Colin
I use 1 motor to power both paddle wheels on my paddler like Roy but as the steering is a little challenging I have a clear plastic rudder extension that I fix onto the rudder with elastic bands only when sailing the craft. This assists steering and when the model is on display at home or whatever the extra bit of rudder is easily removed. Not a technical solution but it works and is almost invisible.

Regards Chris G

Colin H.
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 468
14th Feb 2019 18:55  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50400

My boat was already built with twin motor drive. So I will stick with what I have, may even keep the original rc gear and esc, servo if I locate a transmitter that will operate it successfully.
But I thank you for your input, cheers Colin.


Fair winds and calm waters,
COLIN.
Haverlock
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 508
14th Feb 2019 19:16  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50401

just to add to the fun and games of this thread rather than looking at aftermarket mixers why not go the whole hog and get something like the taranis system. You can mix channels at will and proportionate relationships. This means you can tailor the responses on the mixed channels.


"that's not a bug its just an undocumented creature."

Sir Terence David John "Terry" Pratchett, OBE (28 April 1948 - 12 March 2015)
Colin H.
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 468
14th Feb 2019 20:15  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50402

Well now I'm totally confused. Please Simplify I'm a beginner with the electrics.
Cheers Colin.


Fair winds and calm waters,
COLIN.
JOHN
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 24
15th Feb 2019 09:50  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50411

hi there Colin - to stop confusion and people suggesting things that are totally 'confusing' 😊
1. What type of 2.4 transmitter do you have, what make and how many channels.
2. Can you put a photograph of your rudder servo in the model and the actual plug that fits into the receiver. This servo may not be compatible with what you are trying to do.

Haverlock
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 508
15th Feb 2019 18:24  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50417

Its really quite simple modern radio systems are computerised so you can do all the mixing you want from the transmitter. No need to buy mixers for the receiver end. Setting things up the first time you do it is confusing I agree but once you have a grip on things it becomes more simple. The good thing about using a modern system is that you can change things on the fly and even have different mixes selectable on the same model and change while your sailing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq_H9vzCz8g

there is a video so you can see what I am talking about.


"that's not a bug its just an undocumented creature."

Sir Terence David John "Terry" Pratchett, OBE (28 April 1948 - 12 March 2015)
Colin H.
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 468
15th Feb 2019 19:16  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50420

Here is the transmitter I intend to use, with a 2.4ghz module fitted. Not decided on the RX yet as need to get in the attic to look in my radio spares box. But it will be a 6 channel set, as that is what I have.
Cheers Colin.


Attached Files - Click To View Large


Fair winds and calm waters,
COLIN.
DodgyGeezer
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 105
16th Feb 2019 17:31  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50440

I'm not a Futaba specialist, but isn't that the Helicopter version of the FP-7? If so, it will have a lot of settings and features which will be 'very confusing' to a marine modeller...

Colin H.
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 468
16th Feb 2019 18:19  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50443

Well spotted Dodgy, it's just one of a few old sets I have from my flying days that's an easy conversion to 2.4ghz with a plug in module, which I have, with matching recievers. I have a few 27mhz and 40mhz sets as well, it's just a matter of choosing one that's not in use with one of my other models. I have systems up to 40 years old and and still fully working, so I don't spend on new when I have so much good stuff to choose from, also my specialty is collecting and restoring (for use) vintage models. I also take them to display at vintage shows in the summer.
Cheers Colin.


Fair winds and calm waters,
COLIN.
JOHN
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 24
16th Feb 2019 18:43  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50446

I have just spent a couple of mins downloading and reading through the manual for your transmitter, Colin and I see you have limited mixing similar to the old Futaba 6A models. If it were me (going back to your original question) I would use this transmitter with a new receiver and fit these into your model and use tank steering as in the 4th diagram on that little image I put on of the electrical layouts. Very simple and straightforward. I think its channel 2 on your right hand stick used for rudder.

Colin H.
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 468
16th Feb 2019 18:55  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50447

Thanks John, that's what I was thinking of trying, finally getting my head around the details of the mixing at source. I have another old futaba set with mixing as well, which I used for a Lancaster and found that by controlling ort and starboard motors via mixing made it a really stable flyer. Just hope it will work as well on my boats as I have a couple of fast launches with twin motors to get restored and back on the water.
Thanks for all the help from everyone and especially you and Dodgy.
Cheers Colin


Fair winds and calm waters,
COLIN.
Colin H.
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 468
16th Feb 2019 22:20  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50449

John can you please tell us the li k for the manual download for the FUTABA FP-T7UHP TRANSMITTER. Thanks Colin.


Fair winds and calm waters,
COLIN.
JOHN
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 24
17th Feb 2019 09:59  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50460

Hi Colin try this link


http://manuals.hobbico.com/fut/7uafs-7uaps-manual.pdf


john

Colin H.
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 468
17th Feb 2019 11:50  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50467

Thanks John, can't find the one for the 7UHP version though. Have a 7UAP set as well with the manual, some of function's are different but the set up should be the same.
Cheers Colin.


Fair winds and calm waters,
COLIN.
JOHN
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 24
18th Feb 2019 16:33  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50502

hi ya Colin - I had a good look round the web to try and find the instructions manual for your Futaba FP-T7 UPH and it keeps coming up with the links that I have already posted but there are also one or two links which the firewall wont allow me to open - it says its got virus' on - so I wonder what that one is.
I did come across an auction site - not Ebay - that had one for sale with the instructions and if you look at the instructions they are similar/same as the link I have already posted. So, I am wondering are these instructions for the two sets of transmitters - and possibly the one you have is an upgrade.


I see on Ebay there is someone in USA who sells manuals on CD for around £8 if you desperate. Of all the transmitter manuals I have looked for this one is an oddball one for finding the manual. Happy days.

John


Attached Files - Click To View Large

DodgyGeezer
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 105
18th Feb 2019 17:59  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50504

Things will be a bit up in the air with the Hobbico bankrupcy. But Horizon Hobby have taken over Futaba distribution - see

https://www.futabarc.com/contact.html

They advise chasing Futaba USA for anything further - so these people might be the best to ask:

https://futabausa.com/contactus/

Don't buy poor photocopies of manuals at exorbitant prices without checking with the manufacturer first....

Colin H.
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 468
18th Feb 2019 18:06  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50505

Thanks Dodgy, I'll give it a go.
Cheers Colin.


Fair winds and calm waters,
COLIN.
Colin H.
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 468
18th Feb 2019 18:14  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50506

Hi John, thanks for the help, model shop in Hereford said that they should set up the same on the basic channels. Apparently the A or H in the series number referred to either aircraft or helicopter.
Thanks again for your help with this issue.
Cheers Colin.


Fair winds and calm waters,
COLIN.