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>> Home > Forum > General Resources > Denatured Alcohol
Denatured Alcohol
(564 views)
Author Message
octman
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 83
19th Jul 2017 11:42  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31303

I am trying to get some of this stuff to dilute my epoxy resin with. I understand that it comes in many forms, including methylated spirits.
Can anyone out there who knows these things advise me if they would all be suitable for thinning epoxy resin (Z Poxy Finishing Resin to be precise), or if there is a preferred version, and a source? If I used meths would the diluted resin be purple?

Chris

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 590
19th Jul 2017 12:35  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31307

Hi Chris, As usual the EU has had it's say on the subject:-
"The European Union agreed in February 2013 to the mutual procedures for the complete denaturing of alcohol:

Per hectolitre (100 L) of absolute ethanol: 3 litres of isopropyl alcohol, 3 litres of methyl ethyl ketone and 1 gram denatonium benzoate. "

The MEK should help the solvent properties 👍
Purple resin would look quite nice, different, ! 😉
But I don't see the colouring agent (methyl violet, AKA gentian violet) in this mix. Optional extra!
Cheers Doug 😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living/boat modeling!" 舰队的海军上将 😉 Doug
marky
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 78
19th Jul 2017 12:43  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31309

you can thin apoxy using the boiling water method fill a bucket or sink with boiling water put your apoxy in a tin (old soup)lower it into the boiling water and the apoxy will become less viscose ,you have to work quick as it will thicken as it cools you can also use a Bain Marie boiling water in the lower pot resin in the top one and steam until the desires thickness(a bit like melting chocolate) by using this method you dont change the chemical structure as you would if you used acetone

Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1227
19th Jul 2017 17:11  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31317

Hi Chris
If you thin it will change the structure as others have advised.
Gentle heat will result in the mixture becoming easier to work and apply as marky advises.
If you apply too much heat there is a danger of fire so tread carefully. if you do use heat you will greatly speed up the curing process so mix small amounts and apply quickly. A dry brush is recommended to mop up any runs.
In the recent hot spell I was using some to repair a fitting and the mixture was really thin and set in less than 60 secs.
I use Acetone to clean my pots and brushes and the odd spill but wouldn't use to thin the resin
Good luck and please post how you fared
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
octman
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 83
19th Jul 2017 17:18  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31318

I think this has got a bit off the track. I was asking about denatured alcohol, not acetone. DNA is ethanol and can be used to thin epoxy. see this You Tube video :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujk-wBQDUSk

marky
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 78
19th Jul 2017 17:37  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31319

denatured alcohol is industrial methalated spirits it is still extensivly used in the printing industry a chemical supplier should be able to oblige ,my mother in law used to work in a chemists shop in the 50s and you had to sign for its purchase because of the consumption by alcoholics

Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1227
19th Jul 2017 19:42  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31320

You can buy a small pot from http://www.bonnymans.co.uk/products/product.php?productID=62...

I only mentioned acetone as a cleaning agent.

Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
octman
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 83
19th Jul 2017 22:32  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31321

Thanks Dave, I must admit I did misinterpret your note about your use of acetone.
In the you tube link he thins his resin down to the consistency of water, and it then takes about 4 hours to go off, which is what I want.
Looking at the Bonneyman website it seems you have to have a government authorisation to obtain some types of denatured alcohol. Their site also points you to the gov.org website which explains it all in full. Apparently for low volume users it is less restricted, particularly if you are a school!

Chris

marky
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 78
19th Jul 2017 23:26  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31322

Hi Chris ,spoke to the guy who orders the cleaning stuff for the work he doesn't use it but said hobbyists or small businesses can get up to 20L or less for personal use you would need a licence he gave me the address if your interested ,its National Registration Unit ,HMRC
Portcullis House
21 India Street
Glasgow
G2 4PZ
The form you need is Public Notice 473

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 590
19th Jul 2017 23:36  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31323

and I thought the Germans were over-regulated!! 🤔
By the way, as far as I understand the myriad variations DNA is not necessarily Meths.
Most versions of DNA are solutions without changes in the chemical structure, and should not affect the basic structure of the resin as it (basically the ethanol) evaporates and leaves the original resin.
Happy licensing (and laminating!) don't get drunk 👍
Cheers
Doug 😎
PS Some DNA has acetone as an additive which DOES change the chemical structure of the ethanol. (Please don't ask me what it becomes 🤔 CIDK!)


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living/boat modeling!" 舰队的海军上将 😉 Doug
Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1227
20th Jul 2017 09:38  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31331

Hi Chris
Always happy to share my experiences.
Epoxy is basically a glue and whilst the aero boys like to use it with glass cloth to cover their wings because it bonds well to the wood and remains slightly flexible, my experience is it is dear, adds significantly to the weight, is difficult to apply evenly and has a nasty habit of running after application. We used on the large liners, having also seen the hype on U-Tube, and really struggled with the application.
If I was using this as a sealing coat with or without cloth then I prefer Polyester lay up resin which is cheaper, thin and easy to apply, has controllable setting time and produces a much harder finish.
Good luck with the registration, not sure I would want to get that close to HM Customs & Excise!
Happy building
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 590
20th Jul 2017 10:54  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31332

👍 Heartily agree 😊 On all points!
Once helped supply some Comms equipment for C&E patrol boats, that's as close as I need to get 😉 Happy sealing, Doug 😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living/boat modeling!" 舰队的海军上将 😉 Doug
onetenor
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 121
20th Jul 2017 20:21  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31344

SWBO buys my meths at various supermarkets and Pound stores and home bargains

Trillium
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 62
20th Jul 2017 22:23  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31347

Dave, one of the advantages of epoxy that should not be discounted is that it is almost completely odourless. THat is an especial advantage in places where the winter is long, cold and snowy, and painting and epoxy-ing has to be done indoors.
Roy

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 590
20th Jul 2017 23:48  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31350

Point taken 👍 also valid for Munich. 🤔
-25 and a metre snow (overnight!) not unusual, but not so often in recent years 😊 Doug😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living/boat modeling!" 舰队的海军上将 😉 Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 590
20th Jul 2017 23:50  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31351

Hi one tenor, 'M' missing?? Otherwise this is a new acro. on me 🤔


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living/boat modeling!" 舰队的海军上将 😉 Doug
Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1227
21st Jul 2017 09:54  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31360

Hi Roy
Yes I agree, but if you are mixing with DNA and applying over a large area this may not be the case.
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
octman
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 83
21st Jul 2017 10:29  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31361

When I have got the DNA and epoxy/polyester resin sorted out and I want to coat the inside of the boat, do I just do the hull, or should I wait until the deck is on?

Chris

Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1227
22nd Jul 2017 09:31  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31371

Hi Chris
Probably easier to apply to the hull with the deck off. You should leave the deck join area clear to allow for the glue. The bottom of the deck will also benefit and I usually use a pencil to mark where the formers join and keep the coating off this area. If you are using epoxy for the coating and the joining glue this may not be a problem. Once the deck is on apply another coat over the joints to seal.
If you could a build blog would be welcome and helpful to other members, please.
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
octman
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 83
22nd Jul 2017 11:29  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/31375

Thanks Dave,
I will do a build blog when the model is finished. It is a Jenny by Aero naut. It is supposedly a simple model to make, and so far it is proving to be so, except for a few parts of the construction which are not very well explained in the instructions. If there is the possibility of misinterpreting some instruction, guess which method I use? It's only when I get to the next stage that I find I have gone wrong! I do read the instructions first but some parts are, to me at least, unclear. I have been able to overcome the problems I have created, although the model will only be 99.99% as per the plan.
I have some photos of the build so far but not a complete reference.

Chris