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>> Home > Forum > Hobby Chit Chat! > Speed controls
Speed controls
(987 views)
Author Message
Grandpa
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 39
26th Apr 2017 01:58  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27774

I have heard it said that speed controls are set-up so that the faster speed is found in reverse. Is this true?

If not, then why does my motor run faster in reverse than forward?


Attached Files - Click To View Large

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1007
26th Apr 2017 08:55  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27777

?? I've never heard that! The ESC just does what the TX tells it to.
Throttle not centred on TX; Offset? Trim?
Brushed or Brushless? If brushed: brush wear might play a minor role since most wear naturally comes from the forward direction.
Lower resistance from prop in reverse?
My money is on throttle offset at the TX. 😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" i.e. boat modelling!" 舰队的海军上将 😉 Doug
frankburgess
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 12
26th Apr 2017 09:49  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27783

Hi

I have a 50amp speed controller (with blue anodised heat sink case) from China running a Torpedo brushed motor, but it only gives high power one way.(think about 20amps reverse).

I found to get max power ahead my transmitter stick comes back, reverse at lower power is forward stick.

pmdevlin
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 315
26th Apr 2017 09:57  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27784

some esc's, particularly the cheap end ones (unfortunately those blue case ones have a rep to emit the black magic smoke) have a reduced reverse, to protect the model in the event of knocking the stick etc, so you don't get full tilt into the wall or bank😱

If you have the max speed in reverse, then you need to swop any two wires if its a brushless motor, and then reverse the channel on the transmitter, max speed is always forward, so its a fundamental set up issue here. You also need to ensure the stall or max amp draw is within the tolerances of the esc stated amperage, and be mindful that Chinese esc's generally have a very over exaggerated stated specification. In the set up programme of the esc, you can usually change the direction here, its going to take a bit of fiddling, but its achievable

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1007
26th Apr 2017 10:25  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27787

Surely he just needs to reverse the 'servo' at the TX and trim the throttle centre?


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" i.e. boat modelling!" 舰队的海军上将 😉 Doug
pmdevlin
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 315
26th Apr 2017 10:30  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27788

Not Sure Doug, I think the boat is going the right way, with the right stick movement, its just not the right way around for max power, I was thinking what you say, but then the tx stick will be the wrong way around? Tinkering will be required I think!👍

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1007
26th Apr 2017 11:44  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27790

Seems like we have two case here!
Surely if Frank gets forward motion with stick back and vice versa he just needs to reverse the servo at the TX? I had the same problem with my old Graupner MC-10 40Meg set. If he's using a 2.4 Gig set it might be related to which mode he is using, normally 'out of the Box' set up is for fliers with mixer settings we don't need in boats.
With Grandpa; don't know as he hasn't described the reactions to stick
forward or stick back. My money is still on TX set-up. 😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" i.e. boat modelling!" 舰队的海军上将 😉 Doug
Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1342
26th Apr 2017 12:50  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27791

Doug
The ESC is factory programmed to give more current and volts in one direction and less in the other. If for your chosen stick movement with any tx switches for the channel set to "F" and the motor is running in the wrong direction for the prop, you need to change over the ESC to motor leads for a brushed motor. If it's a brushless you need to change over any two of the three leads.
If you use the reverse switch on the tx it will make the motor run in the opposite direction but at reduced power if the ESC was previously running at full power.
I used to run several models with a Tx that did not allow multiple model selection so set up all my models to work with the same settings. Modern sets allow for multi model set ups so the problem has diminished but I still try to keep to the same settings as it avoids problems lakeside.
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
pmdevlin
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 315
26th Apr 2017 13:01  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27792

so, I'm trying to go over this in my head!😱

boat is going right way, stick is going right way, but the esc is actually reversed, as its on lower power, so if we change the motor wires, forward stick is now reverse, boat goes backwards, which is great for the esc, so now we need to reverse the channel, so the boat goes max forward, with forward stick, I think!🤔

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1007
26th Apr 2017 15:54  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27796

Hi Dave,
One lives and learns 😉👍
I'll check this for this effect (bench tests!) with the kit (Graupner Navy V30) I'm building into my Belfast and Graf Spee, but up to now with brushed and 'conventional' ESCs I've not noticed it. Not got into brushless yet, but might do soon for Dad's old Sea Scout, which is my only single screw boat.
Agree with the same settings philosophy, I do the same.
Watch this space! 😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" i.e. boat modelling!" 舰队的海军上将 😉 Doug
Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1342
26th Apr 2017 16:31  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27798

Hi Paul
Yes I agree if you want stick up for forward. When trying to help others it is sometimes best not to assume they will use the same stick settings as you or I may prefer. As an ex flier I do believe all engines had the throttle idling with the stick fully back and I have always associated forward with stick up leaving backward for stick down.
That was why I referred to "chosen stick movement" in my post.
I could have clouded the waters somewhat as some older Futaba sets need to have the channel set to "R" but anyone with such a tx will already be aware and make the necessary adjustment.
Happy days, just had an afternoon sailing, sunny but cold.]#
Dave👍


Live long and prosper

Dave
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1007
26th Apr 2017 18:55  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27801

"As an ex flier I do believe all engines had the throttle idling with the stick fully back and I have always associated forward with stick up leaving backward for stick down."
This might be the clue! This is what I meant by TX mode. I note that Grandpa has a Spektrum DSM set, he may have it in Mode 2 the usual flier mode, as my DSMX 6 was delivered. If so first of all maybe switch to mode 1 to put throttle (full range) and rudder back on the right stick Channels 1 and 2. Then check the TX programming (offset) on Ch1 and centre it. Then worry about the ESC. Had a similar discussion a few months ago with Andy at Micron Radio Control about the set up for some miniature receivers for my plastic magic!
Still getting to grips with programming the Spektrum. Until then all Sea Trials done with the old MC-10 40MHz kit. 😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" i.e. boat modelling!" 舰队的海军上将 😉 Doug
RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1007
26th Apr 2017 22:39  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27814

Well I'm damned! Checking my VR30 ESCs I found attached spec!
Never noticed this offset in operation before, maybe because naval ships don't have much freeboard at the stern so I take it very easy anyway.
You live and learn 😎But then that's what a forum is all about.👍
Sailing here today near impossible, only 3°C and sleet


Attached Files - Click To View Large


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" i.e. boat modelling!" 舰队的海军上将 😉 Doug
Grandpa
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 39
27th Apr 2017 04:33  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27819

Grandpa here...good conversations here. Some of you are talking about the TX.
What is the tx?
What is Esc?

I will check to see if I am in Mode 1 or 2.

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1007
27th Apr 2017 07:22  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27821

Hi Granpa,
Just saw this in my e-mail Notifications!
"Grandpa here...good conversations here. Some of you are talking about the TX. What is the tx? What is Esc? I will check to see if I am in Mode 1 or 2."
Strangely I can't see it here in the forum???
TX is shorthand for transmitter, ESC means Electronic Speed Control.
I see you are using a Spektrum TX (!). So am I - the DX6. Please post the model number of your TX then I can maybe download the manual.
Now time to make my cappuccino 😋


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" i.e. boat modelling!" 舰队的海军上将 😉 Doug
Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1342
27th Apr 2017 11:58  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27827

Hi Doug
Regarding your comments re Mode, this is only really for model plane fliers and refers to which sticks on a four(+) channel Tx control the throttle, elevator, ailerons and rudder. With a plane it helps when learning if you have a Tx set to the same mode as your fellow fliers as they can then safely take over control should the need arise.
For a model boat it makes little difference but can be easily changed to suit individual requirements. Many modern Tx are now computer controlled (Taranis etc) and allow any combination to be reprogrammed so it really is very much a legacy issue.
I made no reference to Mode in my comments on setting an ESC as it is usually the individual stick settings that cause the problems not which side of the Tx it happens to be on.

However there are some Tx that have the throttle pre programmed to a certain stick which cannot be changed. Also over the years there have been many standards (but not all agreed as common) and some bits of kit do not work with that from other suppliers.
Again this is now more of a legacy issue but something to bear in mind when using older kit.
Hope this helps clarify.
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
Grandpa
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 39
27th Apr 2017 22:49  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27842

Doug the model number is: in photo


Attached Files - Click To View Large

pmdevlin
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 315
27th Apr 2017 22:53  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27843

mode 2 is generally considered the standard for UK, which is throttle on left stick. Mode 1 will be throttle on right stick. Spektrum dx6 or dx6i can be changed, its in the programming menu, however then a mechanical change needs to be made inside the transmitter
First paragraph
https://www.horizonhobby.com/pdf/SPM6630-Manual_Addendum_Mod...

pmdevlin
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 315
27th Apr 2017 22:55  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27844

oops, you have a dx5

http://rcmuppet.blogspot.co.uk/2009/06/converting-spektrum-d...

This part of the discussion has nothing to do with your original question, so dont get confused!

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1007
28th Apr 2017 08:50  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27851

Hi Dave, I had slowly come to the same conclusion! Think I was inadvertently led up the garden path a bit by a recent discussion with Micron. So Granpa; forget the mode issue, listen to what Dave is saying.
Main thing is that the boat reacts the way you want it to for your personal stick setup.
What I don't quite understand yet is how one gets into that situation (original question). My new power analyser arrived yesterday so will now build a test rig and experiment with various ESCs (some decades old! some new) and motors. Am curious to see if there is a difference between old and new 😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" i.e. boat modelling!" 舰队的海军上将 😉 Doug
Grandpa
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 39
28th Apr 2017 13:23  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/27860

I will be interested in the results of your testing.
For now, I will continue doing testing for weight balance on the Kingfisher under power at the pond. Some of you will know that the motor was installed 2.5" (6.5cm) forward from where the plans showed. (Do not ask why?)


Attached Files - Click To View Large