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>> Home > Forum > Hobby Chit Chat! > Finishing
Finishing
(828 views)
Author Message
stwdv
(Sub-Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 3
7th May 2017 10:00  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28274

Hi all, can anyone give any tips on finishing and painting or point to some goo articles please?

Westquay
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 180
7th May 2017 10:05  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28276

Yes, stay away from acrylic, water-based muck. Stick with enamels. The best of which are those made by HMG. They can also be sprayed with wonderfully smooth results.
For wood, cellulose sanding sealer flatted back and then good spar or yacht varnish. General rule with paint?....The more it stinks the better it is. Acrylic doesn't stink much...QED.

Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1007
7th May 2017 10:08  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28277

👍Agree, my Sea Scout was enamel sprayed and I have a vast range of Humbrol and Revell enamel colours. 😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" i.e. boat modelling!" 舰队的海军上将 😉 Doug
stwdv
(Sub-Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 3
7th May 2017 10:08  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28278

Great many thanks Martin, 1st mistake started using acrylic will stop now 👍

Westquay
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 180
7th May 2017 10:15  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28280

Easily done these days. If you have started with acrylic, rub it down and try some of your chosen enamel over the top. It might crinkle. That's what acrylic does. I had some Plastikote crinkle in reaction to itself! I checked the pot to discover that this once great paint company had gone all water based and their paint is now junk. I rung them up and blasted them down the phone and they sent me the last 4 pots of off-white enamel in the place! That went on a treat and, with the dark red that I used on our canal boat, the Sea Urchin was restored back to her 58 year old original finish.
https://model-boats.com/media/np/s/200/1494148536
Martin


Attached Files - Click To View Large

Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1342
7th May 2017 10:45  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28283

I would never use enamel over an acrylic based paint as it will over time crinkle.
You can use acrylic over enamel but I do agree that Plastikote is best avoided as I have had similar unfortunate incidents with crinkling.
If you are painting a fibreglass or plastic surface then the acrylic (not cellulose based) rattle cans will give a quick and satisfactory finish and can be protected with a clear mat or silk lacquer.
If you have a wooden hull then enamel may be a better choice as it will absorb the oil and aid the drying process.
In my experience enamel can take some time to dry especially if you are banished to an outbuilding due to the smell.
Whatever you choose careful preparation and taking your time will give the best result.
Happy building and painting
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
Westquay
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 180
7th May 2017 11:33  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28284

That's why I counselled caution with anything over acrylic...including, as it happens, acrylic.

HRG enamels take a very short time to dry. In fact so much so that they sell a decelerator to slow drying time to maintain a wet edge. Very important when you're painting a narrow boat by hand, although a lot of people then use Owatrol mixed in with the enamel. I sprayed HRG enamel, thinned with white spirit and I sprayed all the parts of a kit car with it. It dried the same afternoon and was handleable the next day with ease. Needless to say it glossed beautifully, being enamel.
Spray cans can be OK, but are very expensive for what they re and NEVER use over acrylic as they will wrinkle. What goes in those cans ain't pure water based acrylic, trust me. For one thing, it stinks a fair bit. I've painted enough slot car bodies to know that and what Halfords mix for you is pure, stinks-of-peardrops cellulose, whatever they might tell you. None of them know a fraction of we old painty farts know! If you can afford them, I would recommend Zero paints. They're formulated to be airbrush ready, need no thinning and are to quote the man that makes them, "cellulose only different". I did a 3 foot model narrow boat for somebody and they went on beautifully out of my Paasche Model H single mix airbrush (all you need). In fact I have also used them from my spotting gun (cheap as chips and easy to clean, IF you have a compressor). Zeros mask well too.
Problem is he won't post and wants a fortune for courier. I won't play that game when I just had 2 deliveries of epoxy resin through the post.
I have recently used Tamiya spray cans that were given to me (yes I really AM that tight) and they are excellent, but then, they really are cellulose. I wish I could buy cellulose, but it allegedly isn't made these days...Hmmmm. Something ending in "...ocks" comes to mind.

I'd honestly stick to enamels bought from a car paint suppliers. Their wet'n'dry is cheaper too. Always talk to the organ grinder himself, never his monkey, hence auto refinishers' suppliers.

Martin

John
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 75
7th May 2017 15:58  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28290

Did you mean HMG enamels?

John.


Happy sailing.

John.
Westquay
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 180
7th May 2017 16:02  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28292

Oh sh..., yes, sorry. We have a place near us called Hardwick Road Garage and we all call it HRG!
HMG is, of course, Henri Marcel Guest, who, despite his name, makes bloody good paint in England.

Cheers,
Martin

John
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 75
7th May 2017 17:55  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28293

I agree HMG have been making great paint for years! ! I used to drive past the factory on my way to work. 😁

John.


Happy sailing.

John.
jarvo
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 431
7th May 2017 18:21  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28294

HMG also do a mail order but with a minimum price, give them a ring, if its not on the shelf they will make it up for you

Mark


Etherow Model Boat Club
Westquay
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 180
7th May 2017 19:33  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28298

I didn't realise that!
Of course, if you live near Kings Langley you could pop in to see Mark Johnson and he'll actually MAKE the paint for you like he did for our historic wooden canal boat, Heather Bell. But I don't know if he's still trading from there. His company was Tramar Coatings. He advertised in Waterways World. I still have a tin of what he labelled Heather Bell Burgundy. It's on that wee Sea Urchin above. Lots of extra alkyd resins and finer pigments. He's a diamond. He used to call us on a Friday evening when his wife did arty things he had no time for and say, "Put kettle on". Half an hour later he'd turn up at the boatyard with fish and chips for three. We didn't have transport.
Happy days.

Martin

Dave M
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1342
7th May 2017 20:36  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28300

Martin
The original post was from a new member asking for help on finishing and painting.
There are pros and cons with whatever you choose and for a new modeller it can be very confusing.
I have used all kinds of paints either brushed or sprayed but now prefer to use Acrylic as (in my opinion) it needs less preparation, dries quickly and is less prone to runs. Unlike cellulose or enamel it can be painted over most prepared surfaces and has a nice flat finish suitable for a scale model boat.
Your Sea Urchin looks splendid but when it was built that was the only paint available so the restoration is spot on.
Dave


Live long and prosper

Dave
Westquay
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 180
7th May 2017 21:27  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28310

If you put a question out there, you'll get an answer. At least you will from me if I know about it and I know about paint. Why on earth do you say acrylic can be put over anything UNLIKE cellulose or enamel. Cellulose maybe, but enamel? You can put enamel over anything. I can even get cellulose over almost anything with my spray gun, but I know how to mist it on.
I suggested enamel because it is so completely harmless.
Cellulose, apart from mixed Halfords and Zero Paints is no longer available. Acrylic as you know can react even with itself. It doesn't have good pigments and doesn't cover well. Enamel does.
I was well aware that the original post was from a new member, so I figured he deserved a straight answer.
Not everyone wants a matt or even a satin finish on a model boat if it isn't a Warship or a service vessel. Would you put satin varnish on a Greavette or a Chris Craft, matt paint on a model of a luxury yacht of any age? Of course not. This nonsense about scale effect is just that....nonsense. A shine's a shine whether smaller or larger, otherwise where do you stop?

Martin

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1007
7th May 2017 23:12  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28321

Hi Martin, Bin round the Talisker ? 😉
@stwdv; ignore what comes next, go to the last paragraph 😎

The scale effect (as I understand it) has nothing or little to do with shine!
It refers to lightening / fading the colour to fool the brain into thinking an object is further away than it is, and therefore think it is larger. Look at any landscape photo or 'in real', hills or forests further away look lighter or more grey than the green ones in the foreground.

There are pros and cons to both as Dave says.
Cellulose is history, except from some nitrated cellulose solvents. In the car restoring days of my youth I remember getting crinkling if I used cellulose thinners from a different manufacturer than the paint 😡

@stwdv: if you do it veeeery carefully in very very thin misted layers (barely wet) you CAN put put a different paint on others BUT you need flat of and prime the old paint first. Pay a bit more for your primer (universal types) and ensure that the coating is absolutely complete and totally dry and hardened. Some combinations work better than others. But essentially it is better not to mix and match. It's essenentially the thinners that does the damage, less is more sometimes!
Try to avoid cheap aerosols, paying a bit more avoids a lot of heartache and extra work, or throwing things in the bin 😡 They tend to have a fairly wide spread on the nozzles which wastes a lot of paint through over-spray.
They also tend to be a bit thick and difficult to control the flow which can cause 'orange peeling or even runs and 'splodges' if the spray stutters. To counteract this one has to spray thinner; i.e. back off more from the object - which causes more over-spray. 🤔 The little spray cans made for modellers are much better than this in all respects than the cheap jumbo cans from the hardware store. Get a decent air brush for the big bits, then you can control the paint viscosity, flow and size and shape of the spray cone. takes a bit of practice but is worth it if you intend to build more models.

But I suspect you wanted tips on the preparation! So let's cut to the chase😉
Sanding and filling are the buzz words. Checking the surface very lightly with your fingertips is much more sensitive and accurate than relying on your eyes. 🤓 When you think you got it right put on a THIN coat of primer (matched type to the finishing paint!) and you will soon see the spots you missed! So back to the filling and sanding. Use a very fine filler at this stage. Prime again and flat it off with 240 to 400 wet'ndry. Take off the residue with a damp sponge and dry!!! Go round this loop a few times and when eyes and finger tips agree you are ready for the finishing colour coats. Thin, let dry. Check for blemishes. Fix if necessary, flat off -> next coat. ALWAYS take note of paint can drying / hardening notes. Don't rush or you'll end up doing it again 😉
Hope this helps, bon chance mon ami 😎Doug
PS my larger model (mostly warships!) I use resin based paints in half litre cans from the DIY shops and an airbrush. They are hard wearing, come in all colours (RAL codes) and finishes and are easy to mix and thin with turps or white spirit. They take the enamel for detailing with no problems. Snags: take longer to dry, but they are hard wearing and cheaper than millions of 14ml cans 👍


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" i.e. boat modelling!" 舰队的海军上将 😉 Doug
stwdv
(Sub-Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 3
8th May 2017 10:42  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28341

Great guys, many thanks 👍

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1007
8th May 2017 10:53  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28343

Look forward to seeing the results here 👍


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" i.e. boat modelling!" 舰队的海军上将 😉 Doug
Westquay
(Captain)





Forum Posts: 180
8th May 2017 11:01  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28344

Happy to help. All skills catered for here.

Martin

seafarer
(Petty Officer)





Forum Posts: 5
9th May 2017 08:49  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28412

😋great debate, painting and finishing is a nightmare for beginners which includes Me! 🤗
Seafarer

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 1007
9th May 2017 09:40  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/28413

Thanks Seafarer, hope it is useful to you.
Basically there are not just different paints out there but PAINT SYSTEMS!
Whatever you decide to use is your choice, 'each to his own taste' 😉
But once you've decided on one STICK WITH IT, at least for a specific project.
Look forward to seeing here whatever it is you want to paint.
Best of luck and More Power to your sander 😎


"Retirement is when you stop living at work -
and start working at living!" i.e. boat modelling!" 舰队的海军上将 😉 Doug