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Finally finished the project. This boat was built from scratch. I took pictures and measurements from a real fireboat that I operate. I built It on a 1/12 scale using wood that I had left over from scrap. This was my first project boat. I was able to get a lot of technical Information from this forum. So thanks guys. I have really fallen In love with boat model building. I have wired the boat and am waiting on two model electric outboards to mount on the transom. It took almost 6 months to complete.
This boat was built from scratch. I took pictures and measurements from a real fireboat that I operate. I built It on a 1/12 scale using wood that I had left over from scrap. This was my first project boat. I was able to get a lot of technical Information from this forum. So thanks guys. I have really fallen In love with boat model building. I have wired the boat and am waiting on two model electric outboards to mount on the transom.
built sometime In the sixties originally powered by 3.5 cc diesel, then glow motor as In pics OS 20 Max. now converting to Electric. Speed 600BB, Mtroniks Viper 10 ESP, 7.2V 3300ma NIMH. as yet only tank tested seems to have enough power, hope It gets up on the plane.
Attached Photos - Click To View Large
Whaleback 1/16 Scale. - Posted: 5 years ago by grahams
Hi, A photo of my Whaleback hull from Model Booat Shack remainder will be scratch built.
Sea trials passed OK! The Graupner 600 drives a 38mm 2 bladed prop. Performance Is good not super fast. Interestingly this set up powered by a 3000mh nicad ran for nearly an hour. While at the Warwick show I asked for advice from one of the clubs exhibiting. My problem was that my electric models hesitated while running. The advice was that my 40mz and 27mz radio set ups were probably the cause and I should use 2.4MZ. This change has completely cured the problem. May be second nature to you chaps...but I did'nt know. Apparently the radio signals given off by the motor do not enter the 2.4 range.
Hello from the colony, I have the ASR whaleback from the old model boats plan and did the turrets from what were full glass type egg cup shaped domes which luckily had a glass moulded "o ring "base , I epoxied a brass plate to the glass side which had brass machine gun barrels already soft soldered and with gun flash muzzels etc . The skeletal framework of the glass domes were hand painted with humbrol or tamiya paints of gun metal with black streaks etc and the whole lot epoxied to a circular Inner base which had a pre fitted centre bolt so that the turrets are able to traverse etc. The 15 to 18 years now vessel has a second ( first wore out) os 10 FSR marine glo engine ) standard fuel Ie no nitro) and In OZ we have to run In salt water ,so flushing Is Important and the exhaust goes Into a stern muffler so the exhaust actually exits the transom as per original In six exhausts. She weighs about 3 lbs or so and very quiet and good In rough water as a flush decker water over the deck sometimes enters the hull In very rough water, so she Is well painted all Inside , about 4 to 6 coats or more as I forget. I have seen salt and pepper glass shakers In antique shops as well, as old radio valves which would do . The "small coastal forces" webb site Is great research. All the best Lyle.
hI Im james I have a fire tender which I got about a year ago as you can see It needs some work doing on It In the boat as you can see In the photos Is a diesel engine I need to know how to start It I do have the cord and the engine has got compressios I was told when I got It It did run I would be gratefull If some one can advise me on how It statrs and what I need to do It It came with a can of diesel fuel my email address Is ( e-mail removed by admin. PM Only) cheers james await a reply thanks
Hi, I have an Aerokits 36" Vosper also, It was started In the early 60's by my Dad and I dug It out of his loft today to finish It! Anyhow It has a 2 stroke diesel, water cooled but not Identical to yours, think It Is about 2cc. Anyway we used to start It back In the early 80's when I was In my early teens by giving It a small squirt of fuel In the Intake and then spinning the motor on the cord while the other of us steadied the boat- It used to go pretty easily but the throttle was always very unresponsive I seem to remember It either ran flat out or stalled! The compression adjuster I was always fiddling with, I think we used to reset by staring at nothing then slowly edging It down until It ran best- there's possibly a better way but It worked. It never got any RC fitted so the couple of times It went across Gorleston boat pond at what seemed like light speed to me were a bit fraught In the can I catch It department! I haven't decided what to do with It yet, can I still get the fuel or Is It a make your own affair? Glenn.
hI glen thanks for your reply to my question Its a great help there Is a pond near were I live In littlehampton Ive discovered that diesel boats have been baned because of noise so I will be removing the engine and will look to selling It It has compression and Is In good condition the fuel I brought for It Is called model technics molecular blended fuel It comes In a 500ml can Its has a sticker on It which says sport special d-2000 diesel fuel I brought It from my local model shop which Is the sussex model shop you can find It on line they do Items by post so give them a try or try local to your area I hgope this has been a help thanks again cheers james
Oh good, I can get the fuel at least without making cocktails! But am I banned from all ponds with my 'classic' motor??? Oh well, It doesn't run yet and the thing Is a lot of winter evenings away from the wet stuff anyway. I like the Idea of running It In this form though, just seems more apt. Good luck with your mods.
Out here In the colony we run In salt and I think It Is a PAW diesel ,I used still mix my own fuel of 20 % castor 40 % kero and 40% ether . To start your diesel It Is necessary to back off the compression head screw also called vernier? over and over as they are so hard to start with the "comp on", everyone has a "secret ", I always start with such low compression ( summer and winter) out In the colony to get her 'run right setting' and slowly add a 1/8 or 1/4 turn as a a bit at a time when engaging the pull cord even If she pops I back off and re engage the cord etc rock It back and forth till a distinct bump , back off the comp a teeny bit again and give a good yank and usually It goes and just carefully adjust the needle from about 2 and a half turns In or out till a good run sound then do the comp off or on a bit then needle In or out a bit and comp on or back till a good run sound BUT at all times I am not too hard on the comp to over compress, rather less comp for me than a flat out runner which could go to lean and start to cook the engine etc. I found a good runner Is better than a race horse. The preceding details Is my trying to help with an engine for which ONE HAS to FIND and ESTABLISH the settings then for future runs I leave the needle alone and back off the comp each time say half a turn to three quarters just for an easy start In the model . Unlike other modellers I always start with less comp ( seems to encourage reliable starts ) with diesels over the years and wind on a bit to the running setting as It Is easier for me rather than start at full run settings. Well that Is my offer to help. Harder to say than see an actual demonstration. regards Lyle.
Very nostalgic and good Info on starting a diesel. I still have a few In my engine box but must admit I changed to Glow engines. There Is nothing to compare to the smell of hot castor and the throaty roar of a diesel. 😀 Admittedly mine were used In model planes but the excitement and enjoyment of running the engine was only matched by Its safe return to terra firma - hopefully In one piece 😰 There are some sites that still allow IC engines and the offshore racing fraternity. Perhaps we should start a new blog asking members to Identify which sites allow IC models?
Yes mate, diesels forever , they were the go In Oz and still In current use for an event called a F/F scramble event , still using the old Deacon and Cardinal and Gaucho designs and the old aero modeller Flying carpet design and Merlins, Mills's PAW's and hand made .75 diesels. It was just a matter that I just migrated to the 46 Inch Crash Boat for the non f/f calm days (actually boating was at any day time when my F/F was only early dawn time In dewy fields) using my old worn out stunt engines In boats and thus my free flight days ended. Peter Dimberline has been out here twice now and can recommend my local boating sites to you In Lake Illawarra , just a bit far for weekend travel. Seems as though when you had a cut with diesel fuel It did not sting ( thanks to the ether) as for glow fuel I had at times a control line model catch alight In my learning glow motors from my fumbling days so that when I moved to I/c boats I never had one catch alight and they were so easy to start In the hull , even NEW out the box just bolted In and run In on the pond very rich ( also due to the better 'squish band 'piston machining and fitting In the early ABC type engines) that came on the market so that made for my replacing my crash boat 'donk' with a new motor and very quiet additional double exhaust systems and just plain ( non nitrated ) fuel. Ahhh , It Is so good to just turn up throw a I/c model In the pond and with reliable radios of today , when I look back, I admire our tenacity and stick with It of yesteryear to enjoy the luxuries of todays modelling. Oz has a lot of space for modelling. regards Lyle.
I can verify what Lyle has written, being fortunate to have visited him twice, the hospitality of these guys Down Under Is tremendous, the lake where they sail Is terrific, pity It's so far away to be able to visit on a regular basis, Lyle Is a very good modeller and between him and his mate Paul they can come up with a solution for anything, no matter wether It's Glow motor, Deisel, or steamthese guys have a tremendous knowledge, any advice given should be read and learned from, walk Into Lyle@s workshop and Its like stepping back In time, some of his models and engines are well woth seeing If you want to know how things were all those years ago, and the best part Is they all still run superbly as I know having thrashed his 46" Fireboat for him. Regards Pete D, compatriot to a Super Colonial.
Yes Pete D I can completely agree with you In regards to "Lyle" he has helped me many times by verbal & lending me his notes on these vessel's. He Is a gentleman that Is a fact and always willing to pass on his knowledge. Yes we have a lot of great times, also very funny times at the lake.
hI this Ios james thanks to all who have been a help In answering my email I have decided to remove the engine and replace It with a electric one so any offers for the engine cheers Its got compression cheers james
Sometime back I posted pictures of my Fireboat questioning It's heritage. It Is not a Vosper Mk II but could be the elusive Mk I. I gave her a makeover earlier this year and thought I would post some pics. Alan
Looking at this It appears as If the brushes are wired In series with the coil. I assume you have tried moving the paxolin control arm In all directions. I can only see one brush connection but assume the one on the other side has a similar wire. It should be fairly easy to disconnect the two field windings and Insert the rectifier as per the modern Installation on the Taycol site.
For sure electrics are not my strong point, but you are right a sailing club colleague Is a retired MarconI Electronics engineer. and has been very helpful already.
The paxolin/Tufnol device Is just a rotary switch probably used to bring In multiple batteries. I think I will reinstall the motor with a simple switch and try the boat to see how It performs. If OK I can go down the route of modifying the motor as you advise, If not good I can put In modern motor and control.
I'll let you know how I get on....but I really appreciate your advice and the other contributors on this site.
HI I have now run the boat with the original motor, and It was too slow, so I am considering what new motor to Install. The prop Is about 40mm dia, and this Is the 36" fireboat. I have been given a Johnson 888 but I get the Impression they are no good. I think from Info on this site a 600 would give reasonable performance but would I need a gearbox too with the prop which I would prefer to retain
HI Frank Yes those old motors, although good In their day, have nowhere near the performance of modern kit. The 888 sounds way too big for your 34" Fireboat, the 600 wil be much better and the speed 600 version Is possibly the one to get If buying from new. With a 40" prop you will almost certainly need to water cool the motor as It will be heavily loaded. You should be able to source the moor and water cooling plus ESC from one source. Your local model shop or an on line store. The gearbox will certainly reduce the current as the motor will have less load, but there Is not a great deal of space In the 34" Fireboat so fitting may be a problem. 😀
The Fireboat had It first run yesterday with the donated Johnson 888 motor and the original prop. Speed was satisfactory, just nicely on the plane and the battery lasted well, a 7.2V Nimh 3000, so I am happy with that. Controller was a donated Robbe minI 200. Unfortunately although this gave speed/stop control there was no reverse. It has pot adj for 'speed' and 'stop', which I adjusted, but Perhaps It was never designed to give reverse?
Another project Is a very old 1950 damaged 'ASL'hull. I have the original drawing titled 'British Power Boat' who were the builders In wartime. It has a 'whaleback' cabin surmounted by 2 machine guns In turrets. These I have cut from radio valves. Its a most unusual looking boat.
34inch Fireboat not an aerokit. - Posted: 6 years ago by jelley_baby
HI I am not sure what kit this Is or was but I know that Its not the Aerokits version. It was bought on Ebay about 2 years ago and It has been restored to what you see attached. It Is running on a Johnson 600 and a 35x prop, power Is from a 11.1 volt Lipo.
How nice to see this early version of a copy of the Fireboat. Just goes to show how popular the model was all those years ago. 😀 You have done a good job with the restoration and the on water shot really looks authentic 👍
Many thanks Dave M the only modification I may make to It Is to change the motor to a 600 with a gearbox as I have found that It makes a good combination with a 45mm 3 blade prop It would then be the same as my other boats a Huntsman, a Sea Commander and a Wavemaster, which all run the same basic combination quite effectively. They are also kinder on the batteries when running. Graham
I am so glad to know that there are others here who share my hobby In the fire by Vosper. My model was built In the late 1950's when I was In the model business In Guyana South America, since then I came to the UK and brought my planes and the Fire with me. The model was from KeilKraft, and equipped with a Taifu 3.5 Bison motor, coupled on to an automatic pull cord starter, with a Screw prop, Installed on a purpose built mount, all by Graupner., whom I then represented. Now even though the motor still works, the starter unit, pullcord Is worn and stranded. This Is my problem. Can I get a new starter unit or do I have to abandon this Idea and get some new motor. Your help will be greatly apprecited. Thank you.
HI RaydindayAL Not familiar with your particular engine but my son used to have a large Ic powered off road buggy that used a starter cable on a spring return. Spares were available so I suspect you should be able to source what you require from your local Hobby shop, or possibly on line. Not sure where you will be able to sail your model, most venues do not allow IC powered boats.
Many thanks DaveM, I found this out only few days ago. The unfortunate thing Is my son sent a 'Dynamite 3.5 marine motor from Aus: now It seems that I may not be able to make use of It. I am told that I have to look at an Electric assembly. That I shall do. At the Model show last sunday I saw few stalls who specialise In this,e.g SHG model supplies, so I shall get In touch, and perhaps they will be able to advise me on model and fittings etc. BY the way Its a 34" long. similar to what Is shown In the picture above. Regards Ray
HI Ray, I have just changed the 600 Johnson for a 700 size Johnson with lower revs and more torque I will Initially be running the same setup as before but will try a slightly larger prop either 40mm or a 45mm and see what happens. It's first run will be tomorrow morning at Cwmbran. Regards Graham
Hi! Fellow modelers, The Vosper kit was matketed by KeilKraft a British agent some time during the 60's, I actually was their agent In South America, but I believe that now they are no longer In business. It Is a beautiful model. I did have a good run at my previous home In Guyana, In a cane field then flooded, It worked beautifully with the diesel engine/ screw prop assembly by Graupner. Now I have to look at electric of which I know very little., but I am hoping that the model shop will help when I am ready. Thanks Ray
HI Ray, The sail at Cwmbran today was a success the boat out performed the previous setup. Several members run Vosper fireboats all running electric power, one with a gearbox 2:1 reduction and two models like mine with 700 size electric my run time on 7.2 volt 3600Mah battery Is about 30 to 35 minutes with some fast runs, shorter with all fast running. On 9.6 volt 3700Mah (4.8 x 2 In series) runtime Is about the same but model Is very quick. On 11.1 volt Lipo 2200Mah battery run time Is about 15 to 20 minutes but very very quick. I buy most of the Johnson motors that I use on Ebay the prices vary but all are cheap and I have had no problems with any of them. Our Club Is all Electric, but that does not mean slow boats. Electric power has evolved In leaps and bounds over the last few years. Regards Graham
Another ebay purchase, a Fire Tender which I think Is from the 50's. It Is fitted with a very unusual old motor with sprung loaded brushes, capacitors, and a fan.... seems to run happily on 12v, which I plan to reinstall. Does anybody recognise It? It was fitted with a 'spring' universal joint. I am fitting a conventional UJ. There Is also a circular switch attached to the motor. This appears to be wired to switch In up to 3 battery supplies! but I think I will fit a modern controller with modern nicads.
I sail at the Maldon and Blackwater Model Boat Club at Heybridge. Regards Frank Burgess
HI Frank, The motor looks like an early Taycol Metor, If It Is It will be stamped on the end plate. It looks as though It has been suppressed with quite large Capacitors, which It will need If being used with modern R/C equipment. I bought a Wavemaster on Ebay with a Taycol Supermarine and I failed to get It to work In a satisfactory manner, It kept affecting the Rudder servo. Good luck Graham
HI Frank I don't think this Is a Taycol motor, but Is undoubtably from the 50's. Can you supply another picture of the switch side? If It Is a Taycol type Its may well be using field coils to provide the magnetism. If so you will need to use a high current bridge rectifier to reverse the motor. If you Google Taycol you will find a site dedicated to these motors together with details on how to use with modern controllers. Its possible that the switch does a similar function but would require a servo to change direction as well as an ESC to control the speed.
HI Thanks for your responses. here's another photo of the motor. I would like to use this motor so that the boat Is as original as possible....the boat needs no restoration as Its In remakable condition. The only criticizm Is the brown paint In place of the normal grey...but I think I'm going to leave It as It Is. Incidentally I showed the boat to the guys down at MarconI Sailing Club and subsequently been offered an early RAF rescue launch (I think).There Is a hull only coming but I have been shown the original drawing which has a streamlined type of cabin structure
Thanks for yourinfo on the Taycol site. My motor Is similar to a Taycol but not the same.. comparing the Taycol pictures my motor has cleary homemade parts...both endplates are aluminium and steel with file and vice marks on them. However my main problem Is that It won't reverse without the adaptations described on the Taycol site. So I need to give some thought to the best route....I suppose reversing Is not essential, so possibly some sort of variable resistor controlled from servo might be ok. The 11.7V lipo on the old motor sounds as If It might give reasonable performance....anybody tried this route?
HI Frank Its not difficult to add the Taycol conversion and the principle Is the same no matter who made the motor. A variable resistor would have to be heavy duty as I suspect the current Is 2-5 amps, and would weigh lots. A modern ESC of about 15amps coupled with a bridge rectifier Is still your best option. If you don't feel able to tackle the electrics yourself perhaps someone at the MarconI Sailing Club could help? 😀
Yes It Is...I scratch built It using a GRP 'workboat' hull as a base. I used a simple drawing from the 'Jolie Brise' book blown up to size. I altered the bow, stern and the keel to match the drawing. The rig Is slightly undersize and simple the keel Is deeper, the deck layout Is very approximate taken from photos but simplified to make It more robust for sailing. It has a winch for sail control and the rudder Is controlled from the tiller via lines and blocks to a servo under the cabin top.
As you probably know the boat was bought as a Le Havre Pilot boat by EG Martin who then Instigated the Fasnet Race, which Jolie Brise won 3 times.
HI Frank I have built model of jolie brise from plans I got from France made few years ago as static model, I have made uo a false keel that I can fit as and when I get round to making sails, have provision for steering via chords running thro the deck In tubes to the steering servo, as yet no thought as to how to Install sail winch as have only small openings where hatches fit. you are right about her being pilot cutter and winning fastnet 3 times, she was however built by Monsieur Paumelle In 1913, I hope at some time to get her on the water. Regards Chiffs