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    Response
    Basic hull construction completed
    Great work on the hull Stuart. I built the same kit last year and really enjoyed the project, the Huntsman is an awesome looking craft too and super light weight. in mine I’ve experimented with a few different
    brushed motor
    s, trying to get scale speed versus “play time” balance. I landed on a 35 turn which at half speed is pretty good for scale speed and at full noise it really gets up and moves for a bit of fun. The last few runs I’ve seen up to 25-30 mins from a 7.2v Ni-Mh pack which has been great. Look forward to seeing your progress, all the best and enjoy the build.
    9 months ago by ChrisB
    Forum
    Anteo 2 Tug
    Could someone advise me on a suitable
    brushed motor
    for the Anteo tug 800 mm length. Also how do you reverse motor,special esc or reversing switch ? Thanks Dick
    1 year ago by Dick
    Forum
    Anteo 2 Tug
    if your intending to use a car ESC have a good read before you buy some of them require you to select reverse then go back to neutral before selecting reverse again to actually reverse the motor. The first reverse acts as a brake. Just to satisfy my curiosity why did you want brushed rather than brushless? There are a lot of brushless motors used in the model car sport and generally have advantages over
    brushed motor
    s.
    9 months ago by Haverlock
    Response
    Brave Borderer
    Canabus, Hope this helps, Rowen Using the FS-I6X instruction Manual, dated 8/10/2018. This Tx allows infinite experimenting with the various control functions and ultimately reverting to factory settings if dissatisfied with results. After several attempts at setting the ELEVON function (V-TAIL could be similar, but the Tx channels would be different), decided this works best for me. it puts both brushless ESCs on the RH control lever. Moving it up operates both screws in the forward direction and down into reverse. Going from side to side speeds up or slows down the motors, so the boat goes in the direction the lever dictates. This was accomplished by: 1) Page 14/57 Establish the Tx Stick mode, mine was # 2. 2) Considering ELEVON, need to determine which layout allows the Aileron and Elevator controls to be operated by same lever. 3) Use Elevator for throttle (fwd & astern) and Aileron to “turn”. The Aileron will accelerate the motor on the outside of a turn. 4) Plug Port & Starboard motor ESCs into channels 1 & 2 respectively. 5) Refer to Para 5.10 and set Elevon mode on Tx. 6) Use channel 4 (LH lever side to side) for rudder and Channel 3 (LH lever up / down) for any other function needing proportional control. I am using it for the centre
    brushed motor
    . This means that my control levers, which had previously had throttle on the LH lever and rudder on the right are now totally changed. There is also an article in the March edition of Model Boats that explains the concept.
    9 months ago by RHBaker
    Blog
    Brave Borderer
    During our protracted wait for Spring, have had chance to reflect on the earlier tribulations with the brushless motor installation. My enthusiasm was sparked by an article on getting the best from your Tx in a magazine and the advantages of using the Elevon or V Tail facilities if available. My Flysky Rx/Tx has this facility, so after some experiments, set the boat up to use the Elevon function. This puts both motor ESCs on the same control lever, so advancing the control accelerates both screws equally and moving to either side accelerates, or slows the appropriate motor. Think this will reduce the coordination previously required to sail in a straight line. Fresh from that success decided to experiment further. The Tx allows reducing Servo throw, so tried that too so could reduce the max. ESC output, it also seems to work. One problem with the original layout was that if the forward speed was reduced quickly it was very easy to move the lever through the neutral point, overshooting into reverse. This immediately reversed that motor causing erratic operation. The Tx also has a “Dual Rate” facility to adjust the lever response from linear to various alternate rates. This allows the neutral point zone to be increased, so the tendency to overshoot into reverse is reduced. Bench tests of these adjustments suggest the model will be easier to operate. Hope they will make controlling the models performance better in our closest pool, which is quite small. A further precaution to prevent inadvertent operation of the brushless motors when using the centre, brushed one, was to add two small relays; one into each of the white ESC signal wires. This allows a another channel on the Tx to be used to select, or deselect the brushless motors. Anticipate that by turning this channel and thus the brushless ESCs off, manoeuvring can be accomplished without the operation being overwhelmed by a
    brushed motor
    inadvertently being operated. My patience for Spring is getting thinner!
    9 months ago by RHBaker
    Forum
    Mtronics W-tail marine mixer connections.
    Hi Colin, Try this version, P94 for
    brushed motor
    s, from Action Electronics at Component Shop. Only throttle and rudder inputs with automatic mixing. I have one of these I intend to use for my long thin destroyer, or maybe the Graf Spee. Or the P40 for Brushless, same operating principle. https://www.componentshop.co.uk/action-electronics/mixers-multifunction.html. I may get one of these for my PT109. heers, Doug 😎
    10 months ago by RNinMunich
    Media
    Thames cruise barge
    total scratch built on fibreglass hull 127cm x24 cm,11 months to build 6volt system
    brushed motor
    ,3blade 35mm brass prop.
    11 months ago by markiee
    Forum
    Fairmile D 1/24 Scale Build
    At this moment in time. I am completing a TID Tug boat. My next project is a Fairmile D MTB at 1/24 scale. I intend to run 4 props using
    brushed motor
    s and two ESCs. I am looking for reasonable performance from
    brushed motor
    s probably Johnson 600 motors running 3 blade 40mm props. Can anyone give me advice regards this setup or can recommend an alternative that does not involve to much expense.
    2 years ago by andyhynes
    Forum
    Fairmile D 1/24 Scale Build
    Thanks Haig👍 I just hope Andy is still around. Maybe a variant of my four screw setup for my HMS Belfast could help him. I'm going to upgrade it with differential ESC control for the two outer motors to assist the steering, the 'beast' (125cm), only has one rudder. I also use SLAs (and
    brushed motor
    s) in such large displacement hulls, but for planing hulls these days the 'norm' must surely be brushless and LiPo (or at least HiPower NiMh😉). G'night from frozen Munich 😡 Cheers, Doug 😎
    11 months ago by RNinMunich
    Forum
    Aeronaut Pilot Boat
    Hi Ron. I am currently building the Aeronauts Pilot Boat Kit. it is reasonably well advanced now but I still have to fit the electronics. I bought two 400 sport
    brushed motor
    s and was advised at a very early stage that two speed controllers were necessary. I looked into various solutions and found that Hobbyking sell a dual speed controller especially for two motors. it is a Hobbywing Quicrun 860. I hope this helps.😊 Peter.
    11 months ago by MouldBuilder
    Forum
    Smoke generator
    Have just made a prototype of a fan forced smoker which seems to be working well (despite breaking the heater coil by moving it while hot, - had it apart, broke wire, screw and washer repair, not quite as hot) I bought a couple of Heng Long smokers (for R/C tanks or cars) to play with, for $10 NZ each(or 5.3 Euros to you Northerners give or take a yen) from Bangood and just bought another from Ebay. There seem to be 2 different models, as one has a long coil with a lamp wick draped over it, which is sitting in the oil reservoir, the other has a small coil inside a piece of heat resistant woven tubing (as you might find insulating toaster/heater wiring etc) which acts as a wick and that also sits in cotton wool in the reservoir, (this seems to be the better of the two) Tip - don't fill the tank right up, only enough to soak the cotton, element should be just out of the oil. The wick loads the element. The better model seems to have a black top to the tank (also maybe either brown or black tank) and the other has a brown top and dirty brown tank. As with most of this stuff you won't know till you get it what it's going to be. What I did was remove the tank and cut off the pump tube just in front of the screw lugs (see black line in photo) then fitted the tank, and a 40x40x10 5v ESC fan (voltage controlled by a UBEC set to 5v on the jumpers) into a plastic electronics utility box from Jaycar (our local electronics and hobby store). I made up a double JST lead for the 2s 1800Mah Lipo and fired it up (using baby oil). it's pretty much silent and smokes well once it gets warmed up, ( starts smoking in about 5 seconds) You could control it (on/off volume) by either a remote on/off switch or perhaps a small cheap 10A brushed ESC. I would leave the fan running and control the element to avoid burning the element. The original pump tank inlet hole seems ok as is (approx 1.5mm) but you could enlarge it very slightly to get a better flow if you could find a better oil. At the electronics store they have proper smoke machine oil for $20 NZ per litre so I may have a look at that. The reason I went for the fan idea was that I found in std pump form, if I immersed a tube from the tank in water, it sucked water back into the tank. I was hoping it would pump smoke out of my HSL exhausts at water level alongside the cooling water but it would need a very light non return valve to do this. The fan seems to pump the smoke through 2mm ID silicone tube ok, so tubing of similar ID to the OD of the tank outlets should work well. These pumps in original form work pretty well for the price, and are cheap enough to keep a few for spare elements, the only thing is they are a bit noisy but in an 'engine sounding' way, (might add to the effect on a tug or work-boat though) What you have left after this mod is a very handy little geared motor with an eccentric output wheel which could be used for winches, radar and whirly bits of any description (see pic of motor leftover and original) To avoid burnout, these should be run on no more than a 2s (around 7.5v-(suggest 8v max with fan running) The other tank is going to work a lot better than this one but I'm not making a tug, just want a bit of exhaust smoke on start-up etc to go with the 2 sound units. Very cheap to make (around $25 NZ with pump, box, fan and UBEC all through Ebay, Aliexpress and Bangood (and local electronics store) if you wanted to run an ESC to control the smoke and you have no channels left to control it proportionally, you can always try using a second receiver bound to your TX, (if your TX will allow it,) power it and a brushed ESC (wired to the element) as normal and use the throttle channel to plug in your smoke control. This should work if you want more smoke as you accelerate or if you are using only 1 stick on a 2 stick TX you could use your 'elevator' stick pushed up (or a toggle switch if available) to start/stop the smoke (through the brushed ESC setup) . This setup weighs 100g (10g more than std) The quest for lots of smoke continues Will try to upload vid later and update progress.
    11 months ago by jbkiwi
    Forum
    All hooked up, nowt happens...
    Hi Steve, I have the same problem with the ESCs in my HSL. They are cheap Chinese car models and can be a bit tricky to get into reverse quickly. I have found that either waiting a few seconds in neutral before trying reverse, or going to neutral and flicking the throttle forward a few clicks and back to neutral quickly (in .5 sec) usually sorts it. I think it may be that the motor stops somewhere that the cheaper ESCs can't detect (bit like an old car starter that hits the bald spot on the ring gear and you have to jog it a bit) so you have to move it slightly for it to 'see' it (maybe the capacitors also). Brushed ESCs don't have that problem as the brushes are in constant contact, rather than relying on correct positioning in Brushless motors. You will also find that some Chinese motors are not timed/wound correctly, and you can feel weak or 'floaty' spots between certain magnets which may also cause a problem. Perhaps trying a higher or lower ESC timing by 1 step either way might help if you have that capability. if it works by just flicking the throttle method, you can just slow down as you come in and take you time finding reverse in a scale like manner (remember the PT109 movie where they went through the shed on the wharf) You can also try swapping the other pairs of wires on the motor (same direction but different pairs). if you are still not happy then it might be time as Doug said, for a better ESC with instructions. Get one which has all the programing features, (fwd, rev , timing, auto batt detection (lipos or NmH etc) starting mode- ie soft,hard, brake etc) this will give you plenty of options for adjustment. Doesn't have to be a marine one, a good known brand car/buggy one will do and if you have any heat problems you can always put a mini fan on it. Water cooled marine ESCs are really only for high amp high speed setups. My 36"HSL has 2x 30A car ESCs running 2x 28/45 2000kv water cooled motors and ESCs never get even warm. Pictured are the ESCs I am using from HK which have an output plug for a fan if needs be. The 3rd pic is the brushless ESC types (EBay, AliExpress) I am using, which have no problems with reverse transition (see vid section re Thornycroft MTB maneuvering) also the HSL vids to give you an idea of how these brushless ESCs perform even with the minor reversing problem. Hope you get it sorted.
    11 months ago by jbkiwi
    Response
    Cooling coil
    I have one on a 540
    brushed motor
    which is a reasonably tight fit on the motor. Also I have a Graupner on to fit Graupner 400 speed motor and that again is a quite tight fit. There is no gap between the motor and the coil. it is acting as a heat sink so therefore surely it should touch to disperse the heat with the water flowing through it. if it isn't in contact with it then doesn't it make it pointless putting it on there. Also wont it make it rattle about when the motor is running and the boat hopping about on the water ??
    12 months ago by BOATSHED
    Response
    HMS BRAVE BORDERER
    HI a chap in our club sails a Vosper mtb ,quite fast on a single screw , planes easily even on its
    brushed motor
    . every time he tries to turn at speed the boat dives bow going under water . we think the rudder , when the boat banks is taking on a horizontal conponent like an aeroplane elevator . we seem to use rudder sizes much larger in comparison to full size boats which wont help Cheers Ian
    12 months ago by TOWN3810
    Response
    aeronaut classic
    I built the Aeronaut Diva and even with a 350 size
    brushed motor
    the performance is brilliant. it gets up on the plane early on and hiesvlije stink.
    1 year ago by Manofkent
    Forum
    fuse holder
    Depends how fast you want it to go! Electrical kit is either rated continuous or intermittent. Continuous ratings are usually conservative - you can exceed them somewhat - but they also assume decent cooling. The inside of a boat is usually sealed, and so is poor for cooling unless specific provision is made. Chinese ratings tend to be a bit unreliable - and watch out for cheap kit with phenomenal specs that are only achievable if you plunge them into liquid nitrogen! I typically run my 12v rated brushless motors at 7.2v. That way they just get a bit warm in a sealed boat and need no cooling. For
    brushed motor
    s the brushes tend to be the weak spot if you put a lot of amps through them. Check your motors for heat after a run and you'll soon find out if you're mistreating them... If you're thinking about Taycols, the smaller ones were definitely brush-limited. Though the bigger ones are typically rated at 12v, the initial review for the Standard reckoned it could take 20v or more. Open frame motors are easier to cool. But I wouldn't like to guarantee the paxolin bearings if you did that...
    1 year ago by DodgyGeezer
    Blog
    HMS BRAVE BORDERER
    Finally the new brass propellers arrived, delayed about a month in one of Canada's regular postal disruptions. After minor modifications to the boss profile (the brass are more streamlined and thus longer than nylon) to give clearance with the rudder leading edges, they were easily installed. Could now refit the electrical equipment previously removed to get access to the shaft couplings. Inevitably took the opportunity to make “improvements”, so then could not get anything to work! After much frustration determined the problem was not from my improvements, but from the cheap and nasty slide switches provided with ESCs. These must have got damp during the test runs and corroded internally. Suggest when using these switches they be consigned to the garbage and replaced with proper toggle ones. Had decided to use the centre
    brushed motor
    /propeller for manoeuvring and low speed operation and then the outer brushless for high speed. Brushless ESCs do not modulate smoothly and motor operation is erratic. This was particularly evident when going from forward to reverse and vice versa. Using a lever control Tx, it was also easy to inadvertently operate the brushless control along with the brushed making the model response unpredictable. After some thinking, decided to insert a small relay into each of the white signal wires for the brushless motor ESCs. These relays would be controlled by a RC switch operated by another channel on the Rx. Hoping this way the brushless motors could be switched on and off whenever desired. The two relays would retain the ESCs as separate circuits and avoid any interference between them. The idea worked, can now operate the
    brushed motor
    confidently knowing the brushless will not be inadvertently triggered. This means low speed manoeuvers can be gently undertaken using the modulation and control ability of the brushless motors and, by selecting the auxiliary control, can add the high speed capability of the brushless. Am also hoping that when the Li-Pos trigger the low voltage cut-outs in the ESCs, this will retain a “get-home” facility on the
    brushed motor
    as that ESC operates independently. Much to look forward to when next on the water.
    1 year ago by RHBaker
    Forum
    All hooked up, nowt happens...
    You're as BAD as me Boaty 😉 but I had a Rover 2000 with fully reclining seats back then - no problem 😁 Re 3 wires on a brushless. Simply put, this is analogous to a 3 phase AC motor (such as used in bathroom extractor fans etc). If you apply a single phase AC voltage to an AC motor it just twitches backwards and forwards in the same place as the voltage crosses from the positive to the negative half cycle. Thus 3 phases are applied giving 3 'shoves' in sequence to keep things moving. A starter capacitor is also needed to give the motor a 'belt' to shove it off. Similarly with a brushless: the ESC senses where the motor armature is in relation to the magnet poles and applies a DC pulse to the next armature coil in sequence. When you shove the throttle up the pulse width lengthens applying a longer shove and thus more energy and speed. Pulling the throttle back with a reversible ESC just turns the pulse train upside down so that negative DC pulses are applied to the motor, reversing the magnetic field created in the armature and thus the rotation. Simple really. It's the sensing and timing done inside the ESC that's the tricky bit, which is why we had to wait about a hundred years from the invention of the AC motor (Nikolai Tesla) until we could use them in models - thanks to micro-electronics. Here endeth today's seminar 😁😁 Happy brushlessing Folks, cheers, Doug 😎 Hmmm, perhaps that's why electric toothbrushes use
    brushed motor
    s! 😁😜
    1 year ago by RNinMunich
    Forum
    All hooked up, nowt happens...
    Hi Westquay It sounds Doug has got it right. I only went over to brushless 3 years ago when I returned to fast electric. All my existing models at the time had
    brushed motor
    s installed and I did become confused with the "new technology". Having three wires from the motor to the ESC was a bit difficult to comprehend but as the boat was an RTR it was helpful due to having an instruction manual with it. It just takes time and experience to get use to such changes but it will be right in the end. My only experience of a non starter was back in 1976, this being the only time I had a date with a married woman. I had a Lotus Elan then and there was no room in the back and it would have been a waste of time calling the AA to resolve it.😁😎 Boaty
    1 year ago by boaty
    Media
    Ashes the scratch built Motor Torpedo Boat
    I found this hull at thingiverse last year. I printed the hull from a local shop and rest was handmade. Firstly I bought a 2426 4200kv brushless 2-3s which was too powerful and too heavy for the boat size. The length is 38cm. And the 30Amp esc was also too big for it's size. After that I tried small 180
    brushed motor
    with 20A brushed esc w/brake. it was perfect (still it's heavy😂). The bridge and deck is made by 1.75mm pvc,torpedos are made of wooden pencil. Small battery space takes a 2s 500mah lipo. 30mm 3blade propeller. YouTube video link is here: https://youtu.be/KZdmZ8_Z0IE
    1 year ago by Sakibian
    Forum
    Brushless motors (again)
    Again, as not wanting to nick someone else's thread. Huntsman 31 currently has a geared (belt)
    brushed motor
    which was probably quite a good spec. many years ago. I don't remember how quick it was but having watched brushless boats running this morning in Southsea I have decided now is the time for change before I start painting. I've been reading various threads and gleaned some info but it is still a minefield. Whilst this boat (original) is twin screw I am not yet ready to go that far so will stay single screw. A thread suggested 3639 -1100KV which is fine as a spec. but there are a zillion different makes and models for that spec. Cornwall models seem to offer 6 or 8 so I am looking for more specific advise for make and model of each piece of the power system...motor, ESC, battery, charger. I'm not going to say 'money no object' just that I don't 'need' to buy bottom spec. I suspect there will be as many different suggestions as 'Cornwall' have motor makes but something good will come out of it. Many thanks Steve
    1 year ago by steve-d
    Blog
    Range Safety Launch?
    The ‘Range Safety Launch’…………. Intro. I am now the owner of this boat. Wooden, good hull lines and hull paint work but needing to be finished. I am told that it looks like it started life as a kit, but has had considerable modification to at least the above deck layout and detail. Advice is that it could be a rather simplified Range Safety Launch, but maybe I can use a little ‘artistic licence’ and just make it look interesting and capable. There are two main reasons for sharing this project. 1. I will undoubtedly need guidance 2. Maybe some of the information will assist others The hull is 44 inches ( 112cm ) long and 14 inches (36cm ) wide, it has two brushed MFA Torpedo 800 motors………. and weighs in currently at 15 lbs 4ozs (6.91 kgs). It is large enough for me to be able to work on reasonably comfortably and apart from the cabin/upper deck areas to be ‘improved’, I aim to introduce sound, lighting, active radar sweep, search light, together with maybe a deck hoist and water /fire monitor appliance. At my age it is difficult to tell the difference between wishful thinking and dementing…… However, the prime aim is to try and achieve at least some of this whilst having the boat usable during the current ‘season’. There is so much knowledge, good will and help available on this site that even before I touched a thing, information came pouring in. If anyone feels like making a contribution then please just ‘pile in’. Have ordered some parts so next time should have something to show. NPJ.
    1 year ago by NPJ
    Blog
    HMS BRAVE BORDERER
    The weather has quickly turned colder, giving an excuse to get back to this model. Stripped out much of the interior and the prop. shafts to replace the nylon propellers with brass. These items all needed removing for painting, so decided to paint the hull before reassembly and then moving onto the superstructure. Fortunately, examining similar naval vessels and several U Tube videos, confirmed the hull as light grey, the deck a darker one of the 50 shades of grey and the lower hull below the waterline black. Used thin Tamiya masking tape to define clean colour separations, followed by regular tape, masked the hull into colour sections and sprayed using “rattle” cans. After the colours applied a light overall Matt coat to subdue any shine. The results are satisfactory. Will now reassemble and move onto building the superstructure and the other fittings. Prior to the season closing decided to experiment with my new Flysky Tx/Rx package, shortly to be fitted to this model. This Tx has a servo limiting function, which was hoping could also be used to restrict ESC output. Would like to make the full speed motor response correspond to full Tx control position. Currently can over power the model; which lifts the stern, causing it to come off the plane and then dig the bow in. Was thinking that if full throttle could be set at around 90% forward control movement and 40% sternwards the model would retain adequate performance, but without being overpowered or very sensitive to control lever movement. As the Brave was not available, tried the idea on my Daman Stan 4207 model. This is
    brushed motor
    powered and a good performer. Obviously the settings for the Brave will be different, but at least could try to see if the idea would work – it did! This Tx function is easy to use and adjustments can be made whilst the model is on the water. Once the ideal settings are achieved they can be programmed and then retained in the Tx. Will try this on the Brave when back on the water next Spring.
    1 year ago by RHBaker
    Blog
    Motors
    Don't know what happened MOTOR COMPARISON Model Number Caldercraft CEM 900T MFA Torpedo 850 Nominal Voltage 12v 12v Operating Range 6-24v 12v Type Brushed Brushed Current Cons No Load 0.4A 1.9A Current Consumption Max Eff 5A 10,8A Stall Current 20.3A 40A RPM at Nominal Voltage 3000r/min 9778r/min Prop Caldercraft 75mm The Motor I am putting in this Sea Queen is a Torpedo 850. This is due to the Caldercraft motor only manages just above walking pace.
    1 year ago by Ianh
    Forum
    Veron Vosper F.P.B. 52''
    Hi John. interested to know what kind of offers you have had. Boaty, yes Veron did an RTTL Rescue Target Towing Launch, they featured in the black and white film ' The sea shall not have them'. This though is their fast patrol boat. I believe it's called a 'Trinity class patrol boat and some were supplied to the Trinidad and Tobago navy. You will sometimes see the model bares the name Coureland Bay'. I have seen photos on this website of her. They were built by Vosper Thornycroft in Portsmouth. if I was building her I would put two meaty brushless motors n her which should bring a sprite lay planing performance. I have fitted two Graupner 900s in mine, which give her an excellent turn of speed. These are
    brushed motor
    s but are not available any more. The hull space is vast so easily accommodates batteries with space for sound system working radar etc. Regards Kevin
    1 year ago by kevinsharpe
    Forum
    Twin Motor Perkassa
    I attach some pics of my 34" Perkassa. It uses two large water cooled
    brushed motor
    s (650?). Two Mtronic 25amp ESCs with one red wire disconnected. You can see the ESCs on off switches over the former in the next to last pic. Presently has a Planet Tx/rx and I use 9.6v or 8.4v NiMhs of 3 to 5 amps. Not fused (naughty). The battery sits between the prop shafts towards the stern in a tray. I control the motors on the left and right sticks with the rudder on the right horiz stick. The left stick has a ratchet so I set the speed with that and use the right sticks to keep straight and steer. As an ex flyer this is an easy set up for me. Run time is about 10/15 mins but that's long enough for me and the other models on the lake!
    2 years ago by Dave M
    Forum
    Taycol Supemarine Resurrection
    IN THE BEGINNING there was what looked like a pile of rust😲 which got soaked in WD40 for 24 hours! After washing off with warm water and washing-up liquid, and drying in the sun for a few hours, the bearings (and copper wire brushes) were oiled, missing connecting links bridged, and 6V (with current limit 3A set) was cautiously applied. Lo and behold she rattled and protested BUT RAN! Oh! That nostalgic smell of ozone, and enough sparks to read a book by🤔 Next connections were changed, to separate field and armature coils (brush gear), and connected to a standard
    brushed motor
    ESC (Graupner Navy 30A) via my prototype converter board, and a Robbe Servo Tester to simulate TX and RX. lo and behold chapter 2; she ran forwards and backwards😊 and no sparks! Now dismantled (last 3 pics) to start clean up and replacement of corroded parts. Sorry Col, I broked your motor😁😁 Armature was cleaned up and commutator polished; surprisingly lots of 'meat' on it so motor has not been run much. Next stop; lathe to make some new frame spacers. After that new bearing bushes cos the old Paxolin end plates have worn so that there's about 1/32" slop! Will probably have to turn the drive shaft down from original 1/4" (6.35mm) to 5mm to remove last traces of rust and pitting. Cheers All, Doug 😎
    1 year ago by RNinMunich
    Blog
    BRAVE BORDERER - BRUSHLESS SUMMARY
    Although have modeling experience, all my earlier vessels used
    brushed motor
    s. This was my first brushless. The model is now running well, but thought, for the benefit of others considering this transition to summarize my experiences. Must stress the performance of a brushless motor is incredible when compared to a similar sized brushed; for a vessel such as this they are almost obligatory. They are worth the trouble! Had been advised that the best powertrain installation for a 37” Brave Borderer is either a single or twin screws, not three. This was good advice! Much heartache could have been avoided with a single screw installation. Unfortunately, that is not the correct layout for a scale builder. Tried three major powertrain iterations, with several variations within each group. All motors are 28mm O/D : 1) The original installation used 3 x 4600kV inrunner motors with 30 A ESCs. Had bought these items used. The motors were too fast and had little torque. The ESCs also did not have adequate capacity. The result was erratic performance, a high fuse failure rate and the eventual failure of an ESC and motor Picture #1. 2) First upgrade was to 2 x 2400kV inrunner motors, using 50A capacity ESCs. The centre shaft was fitted with a
    brushed motor
    . This combination did work, although suffered greatly from motor “squeal” and “stutter”. Eventually a motor burnt out and failed. Picture #2 3) Upgrade two: retained the 50 A ESCs, with 2 x 2600 kV outrunner motors, again with the brushed inner shaft motor. Reprogrammed the ESCs to soft start parameters. Much better, performance and reliability can now be considered acceptable. The squeal and stutter are largely corrected it has justified the challenges of getting here. Picture #3 Have tried both 2 and 3S Li-Po batteries, suggest use the minimum voltage needed to achieve the desired performance. Higher voltages translate into faster response and performance, but with less control modulation. The model can be easily overpowered. In summary, from my experience. For a marine application; chose low (under 2000kV) kV rating motors with an outrunner layout wherever possible (produce more torque than inrunners). Use ESCs with a ratings comfortably in excess of the motor ratings, fit fuses to supplement any ESC protections. Ensure the ESCs are programmed to “soft start” characteristics. Also, the obvious check of making sure shaft alignment is correct is even more important with the higher speed capability of brushless motors. in spite of the trails, cost and tribulations of getting here. Have enjoyed the challenge and the end result does justify the means. Also, do not finally fit the deck until you are satisfied with the performance. Making the changes described with limited access would have been very difficult and frustrating.
    1 year ago by RHBaker
    Response
    BRAVE BORDERER
    Just put up another vid showing the speed at around 2/3 throttle which looks reasonably scale for 38 knots (bit hard to scale water movement as we all know!) and it doesn't squeal too much at this speed. Just been back through my old info on the ESCs and found I may be able to change a few things (forgot due to approaching dotage and so many projects on electric (18 planes as well converted from ic to electric) I was thinking with your high kv motors that if you can get away with smaller props or some the scale diam bit finer pitch props, that would allow the motors to rev how they should, but give you finer control. As I mentioned before, on 8v per motor they will spin at around 16-18000 rpm and won't like a big load (you've no doubt heard those delta wings scream) . My props are 28mm x 3 blade on a 2000kv motor and are spinning at around 12000 rpm (probably around 8000 rpm in the vid at 2/3 throttle) The general rule with brushless is the higher the kv the smaller the prop/pitch and vice versa planes or boats (would also apply to brushed) if you have an in line amp meter/batt checker you can check the amps drawn in the water at full power (have someone hold the boat) and see if you are under max A for the motor. You can then prop to suit if necessary. This is the only way to check for correct load and is an absolute must for aeroplanes. After a run, motors should be around cool to almost too hot to touch (60-70deg C) There are backplate water cooling units available for using out-runners in boats if necessary eg pic.
    1 year ago by jbkiwi
    Response
    BRAVE BORDERER
    If you are using 2 ESCs/BEC/UBECs with 2 plugged into 1 receiver you should remove the red wire from one of the plugs and tape it back to the lead, as both plugged in will possibly supply too much voltage for the receiver (you are getting double the voltage from 2 different sources) and this can cause the ESC to stutter . You should have no problems with Brushless out-runner motors as with the correct match with the ESC they should be as smooth as brushed. I have dual 2000kv 28/45 in-runners (with water jackets) and twin ESCs and 2 sound units using 1 receiver in my 64ft ASR model with no problems regarding proportional control (fwd or rev). I had a 28mm O/R in a Maiami ASR and it would crawl along (but the high noise was ear wrecking so have changed it back to brushed for now. I do have a similar slight high pitched squeal at certain speeds on one motor and this may be caused by the particular motor not 'syncing'properly with the ESC (Chinese cheap ESCs and HobbyKing /made in china motors) but short of changing that motor and ESC I am just putting up with it for now. The high pitched sync noise is fairly common and sometimes not fixable, (a number of my larger planes do it and its audible from 100m away (also amplified by a hull,-nice sound box). it can depend on the way a particular motor is wound (no 2 are identical) or even magnet placement/timing, as the may be hand wound by 2 very nice Chinese ladies at different ends of a bench ( just read some of the Hobby King motor reviews ) You could try changing the frequency on the ESC if it has that option as a higher motor Kv sometimes requires a higher frequency. Also make sure your ESC is set to the correct battery cell count. if it has an auto setting that should usually work best for general applications unless you are running fancy motors. Regarding interference, make sure you keep your aerial as far as poss from the motors and ESCs (even on 2.4 - I put mine right up in the bow) and there should be no problems. I have had 2 twin engined boats (my MTB & ASR) 1 brushed and 1 brushless running side by side 10" apart using the same radio for both (same type of Rec in each boat) with no problems at all. The bow down is probably prop shaft angle (the shallower the better) but if you are using counter rotating props you could try swapping props (inward rotation to outward) and motor rotation to see if it makes a difference. Also with 2800Kv motors you should be using small props (around 28-30mm diam 3 blade) as these motors are made to rev) as on a 2s battery they will be turning at around 20,000 dry and perhaps 18,000 wet (depending on prop) and if you load them too much they will cook with no cooling (assuming they are around 28mm dia ?) Only other thought - silicone couplings will squeal real loud if they slip.
    1 year ago by jbkiwi
    Blog
    HMS BRAVE BORDERER
    Adjusted the transom flaps and reprogrammed the ESCs to the softest start settings, retested. Until now, the test runs did not have the duration or stability to really examine what was happening. Using 3 S batteries acceleration is rapid and a is plane quickly achieved. However, as the acceleration continues and speed increases, the bow digs in. A cloud of spray then surrounds the model as the plane is lost. Brushless motors do not modulate as smoothly as brushed and adjusting power tends to be erratic or exaggerated. This is a scale model and the propeller shaft angles are per the plans. The thrust from the propeller has two components, horizontal and vertical. The horizontal propels the vessel forward. However, the vertical component forces the stern upwards and, correspondingly, the bow down. Have moved as much weight as possible towards the stern to counteract this, limited by maintaining the correct displacement and waterline. The easiest solution is to reduce motor power, decreasing both speed and the lifting component. Decided to retry the 2S batteries as they give reduced power. A plane is again achieved, but as the motor response is more docile, it can be controlled. if the speed gets too high the bow lowers, as before, but the motor output can be more easily adjusted. Spent a pleasant half hour or so with the vessel accelerating onto and off a nice, controllable plane. Much less spray and drama than with 3S and much more controllable. Have now decided to revise plans and use 2S rather than 3 batteries. A further advantage is the motor noise is muted and now sounds more like a gas turbine than a dental drill! Finally feeling comfortable with the model. Will thus shelve further building until the late fall when sailing in Canada concludes. Want to enjoy the rest of my fleet in the meantime! Will summarize my experiences with brushless motors in another blog shortly for the benefits of others contemplating their use. After restarting the model will resurrect periodic build blogs to advise progress.
    1 year ago by RHBaker
    Forum
    Taycol Supemarine Resurrection
    Shucks! An I was hopin' you'd build me a little 4 cylinder diesel for me to run a
    brushed motor
    as a Genny for all the lighting on my ships! Or for the diesel electric propulsion on my Type 45. Now wouldn't that be cool!?😁 BTW Some of Nick Carters tips an tricks showed me how to convert one of my tools to something that'll do what I want! So, out with the Proxxon mini-grinder😉 Cheers, Doug PS it wasn't a wrong steer cos it led me to all sorts of useful 'stuff' and above all helpful info👍
    1 year ago by RNinMunich
    Forum
    Taycol Supemarine Resurrection
    Mornin' John, agree re chromite, but still don't know what chroDite is! I only personally own the one Taycol Target. I got into this whole Taycol business while I was renovating Dad's old Sea Scout last year and decided I wanted a bit more Oomph so upgraded it to a 1000kV brushless, which gives goods results on a 3S LiPo. See the vids I've posted of the the 'Sea trials' (Lake Trials!?). So I decided to use the Target in the ancient Billing Boats Danish fish cutter I'm restoring and converting from static to RC. Figured the Target would cope OK with the plodding pace of a fish cutter😉 BUT, I wanted it to be reversible without cumbersome external switches or relays as recommended by Taycol / Keil Kraft in those days. After surfing around a bit a found a website where others had tackled the same problem. Looked at their solutions and refined them slightly. All I do is rectify the pulsed (square wave) signal from the ESC with a bridge rectifier (4 hi-current diodes in a bridge form in one package), apply the + and - outputs from the rectifier to the field coil so that it produces a constant magnetic field just like the permanent magnet of a canned motor. The two alternating (pulsed) outputs of the ESC are applied to the AC (~) inputs of the rectifier, which go + / - or - / + according to the command from the TX, I apply to the brush terminals just like a normal
    brushed motor
    setup. The output of the ESC is a train of either positive of negative going DC pulses. Pic 2 the positive train on the scope. Pic 3 the negative train. The larger and wider the pulse the higher and longer the voltage is applied and the faster the motor spins. So called Pulse Width Modulation (PWM). The gaps between the pulses are smoothed out by the inertia (flywheel effect) of the motor, and anything hanging on it - like a prop and a few million gallons of wet stuff 😁 Hey presto, a field coil motor that runs forwards or backwards on command 😊 Main thing is simply to separate the field coil from the armature coil (i.e. brush gear) so you can control each one independently. No rocket science but highly satisfying when it all comes together and works on the pond. OK, I'll look up Mr Lynch, wasn't he the Sarge in Z Cars 😁😁😁 Cheers, Doug 😎
    1 year ago by RNinMunich
    Forum
    Taycol Supemarine Resurrection
    Hi Boaty, The Taycols have fascinated me as well, ever since I dug the Target out of the Sea Scout my Dad built in the early sixties. I blogged my renovation of that and the conversion to run with a modern RC system and presumably that, and the converter boards I built for Martin (Westquay), is what triggered Colin to ask me to have a look at his Supermarine. How could I resist!? 😉 The 'smell of something electrical' is the ozone gas caused by the prolific sparking of the Taycol metal to metal brush / commutator combination. The other source of Ozone is on the coast wherever there is a strong surf! I agree, a nostalgic smell, which unfortunately disappears when the converter board is attached to make it run with a standard brushed ESC. The diode bridge kills almost all the sparks. 'Almost' so the usual suppression capacitors are still recommended. 0.1µF across the brush terminals, 0.047µF from each terminal to the motor can, or frame in this case. Earth to prop shaft tube as well if possible. The motor may not disturb the on-board electronics of your own boat, if using 2.4Gig, but could still affect anyone nearby using 27 or 40Megs. The power density of spark transmitters (e.g. unsuppressed E-motors, peaks in the upper HF bands and diminishes to almost zilch in the UHF bands. I.e. approx 30 MHz upwards. Like me and other submariners for instance; 2.4Gig is useless for subs cos it don't go underwater. Cheers, Doug 😎 But here! BTW Boaty: where are the pics of your Avanti? Harbour posts without pics are pretty dead 🤔 Cheers, Doug 😎
    1 year ago by RNinMunich
    Blog
    Italeri P.T 109
    I bought an italeri PT109 kit in 2011. it took 4 months to build as I had other projects on at the time. I notices the high quality of the parts, especially the hull and the actual paint finish was very easy due to it being plastic and got the nearest colour match by using Humbrol spray acrylic of Grass Green with Regency Red acrylic for the waterline and below. Difficult decision was as to build as a triple screw to maintain scale or go for the single screw. I eventually went for the latter with just one rudder. Power was by a 480 brushed flight motor with a 30 amp esc which was a bit over the top as power was by a 2200mAh 2S Lipo but the esc was the only one they had in the shop. Getting the motor installed was very straight forward as it was done before the deck was fitted but I had to make the aft cabin detachable for access to taking the battery in and out and also lubricating the propshaft .The boat performed well at scale speed but got slightly out of shape when full power was applied, appearing more as a fast electric. Overall the boat was ideal for smaller ponds (providing it was not running flat out). The outcome was a well detailed model that appeared like the real thing on the water but I would not recommend sailing it in rough conditions.. Boaty😁
    1 year ago by boaty
    Blog
    BRAVE BORDERER
    Been researching the squeal and stutter on other websites and conclude RFI is probably not the major contributor. Others attribute it to a mismatch in the ESC / motor timing, which seems more likely. Whatever caused it, resulted in the affected motor failing. Which came first, the failure causing squeal or squeal causing failure is open to conjecture. Much to my surprise the manufacturer has decided to replace the motor under warranty. In the meantime, the motors I had planned to use originally (2800kV Outrunners) came into stock, so purchased a couple. Until now have had to use the ESC default settings as did not have a programming card. This also arrived with the motors. Following advice from another contributor reprogrammed the motors with “softer” start and acceleration settings. Fitted and tried the new motors and settings. On the bench, the squeal and stutter have almost gone. The motors are also more tractable. As the brushless motors are now going to be used for high speed operation only, with slow on the centre brushed, thought could simplify the controls by putting the brushless ESCs on one control system using a “Y” lead. However, this introduced inconsistent and erratic motor responses. Reverted to the two previous separate controls, port and starboard. On the water the performance is fine, as is the reliability. The 2S battery gave almost half an hours operation. The bow lifts nicely with both 2 & 3 S Batteries; plenty of spray. Hopefully resembling a 50 knot vessel! Another adjustment is needed to the transom flaps to try to hold the bow down later as she accelerates. Feeling now to finally be making progress with this model. The squeal has not gone, nor has erratic motor operation. The squeal is high pitched screech, rather like treading on a budgie! When it happens, bringing the control back to neutral and advancing it again almost always overcomes it. The erratic operation happens also when starting and is rather like the motors are not getting a signal to react to the control. Again, returning through neutral briefly seems to correct it. The revised motors and ESCs have increased the weight to 6lbs for the hull including all running gear, excluding batteries and superstructure. Whilst still trying to control weight have concluded this figure is satisfactory as the performance certainly is.
    1 year ago by RHBaker
    Forum
    Old
    brushed motor
    Hi Rob, If you've a hundred quid or so to spare- https://www.ebay.com/p/Robbe-ELT-Max-50-4061-Motor-Setup-Old-Stock-RC-Boat-Proboat-Dumas-Boat/23005426178 Cheers, Doug 😎
    1 year ago by RNinMunich
    Forum
    Old
    brushed motor
    Has anyone got a "Elt-Max 50 motor in their junk box or in an old boat ? I am looking for one for a restoration project.
    1 year ago by robhenry
    Forum
    Old
    brushed motor
    Platinum Hen teeth comes to mind.😁 Try other forums including planes and cars.👍
    1 year ago by onetenor
    Forum
    54'' long Cervia tug.
    My Cervia was ready built. I have replaced the Electric motor with a large servo motor (Brushed) .Direct drive and being heavy helps with ballasting. lead acid gel cells are power source. Motor rated voltage24 v but run it on 12v . low rev high torque no load current 1 amp. Shaft diameter 0.5 in. Gives some idea of power out. Being servo motor (ex computer drive 30 years old) well balanced no vibration. Photo near shore shows power of motor.
    1 year ago by tysonyoung
    Forum
    1/16th scale Tamar
    Like many people, I originally built a Model Slipway 1:16 Tamar with the recommended
    brushed motor
    s. Most of us switched to brushless motors for a number of reasons... 1. short battery duration using NiMHs, or an SLA with brushed. 2. These ALBs have an on-Service speed of 25+ knots and for scale speed, only brushless motors and LiPos can sensibly provide the power and duration. Model Slipway converted their demonstrator to brushless.
    1 year ago by kinmel
    Forum
    1/16th scale Tamar
    Hi Marlina, I agree with Martin👍 Brushless are overkill for scale working boats. A good quality and well lubricated
    brushed motor
    should not be noisy! Go for a 5 pole motor if you can for extra smoothness😉 Brushless motors whine like scalded cats, especially at low speeds / RPM. it's a consequence of the pulsed DC used to control the speed. Pitch rises with RPM until only dogs get annoyed!😲 Good luck with your project👍 Don't forget the Blog! Cheers, Doug 😎
    1 year ago by RNinMunich
    Forum
    1/16th scale Tamar
    I would always say if you don't need lots of speed stay brushed, "ordinary" motors. As for styrene, it can warp horribly so needs more bracing than you might think or the kit manufacturer might tell you. Brace with liteply or hard balsa/obeche where you can out of sight. Martin
    1 year ago by Westquay
    Blog
    BRAVE BORDERER
    Decided to separate the two power systems; one to the port ESC and motor and the other the starboard. Hope this will reduce interference between the motor systems. Have also reverted to a remote battery powered Rx rather than the BECC system, again to reduce possible interference. The modifications did not resolve the problems. The squeal and stutter are still present, but much reduced. Sounds rather like a slipping coupling, but as these have been checked many times they can be eliminated. Apart from the squeal and the stutter, everything works well. The squeal /stutter occurs at start up, when it happens the control is returned to neutral, if the motor is immediately reselected, usually the problem goes away and the motor runs up cleanly. it only occurs when both motors are selected at the same time. Either runs up cleanly when selected individually. Interestingly enough, did some research on various Model Boats site and found some references to RF interference, no specific solutions though. Also examined some Aero modeling sites as they use powerful brushless motors with ESCs. There is some history of the problem there. Evidently when the mosfets (?) of the ESCs convert DC to AC, RF interference is generated. it can often be addressed by using ferrite rings on the ESC control leads. My latest ESCs actually have ferrite rings, so the problem must have been anticipated. This might account for the latest reduction in squeal and stutter levels. Am at a loss to think of any other modifications, so decided to conduct a water test. Maybe it is a characteristic of brushless motors, but their control response seems “ragged”, not smooth as with a brushed. Anyway, the squeal and stutter seemed reduced yet again, perhaps the water load damped them down. Was able to start exploring both the performance envelope and the viability of the brushed centre shaft motor. First impressions are that on a 2S battery the performance is fine, but it sparkles on 3S. On 3S the stutter and squeal are more pronounced though. intend to do further trials but, unless something unexpected occurs, now plan to use 2S power. The centre
    brushed motor
    idea works well, this layout seems a good compromise. Will design a simple switching circuit to ensure the brushless motors can selected separately. This will avoid the inadvertent operation of both brushed and brushless unintentionally as they are on the same control stick. The brushed can then be used for low speed operation. Returning to the problem of squeal and stutter – has anybody else experienced this and how was it resolved?
    1 year ago by RHBaker
    Forum
    PT 109 upgrade?
    Hi. She is 48 inches long and the motors are old inexpensive brushed can motors (no name). Thanks, Ira
    1 year ago by masterfixer
    Blog
    Krick Police Launch
    I have just started to build the Police Launch that I have had for a while. Work commitments have left me with little time lately but hopefully I can get a good run on this one for a while. I hope to finish it by late July which just leaves me enough time to send it to Hungary so that I can test it. The kit is said to be good for a beginner. This would be good as many years ago I built a Patrol Torpedo Boat which took me five years. I am currently restoring this one as well but I think that will take most of this year to complete.😁 I have started by buying the speed controller. The motor is a 400 brushed. Probably not going to be too difficult to keep up with this one. The kit itself is not too bad considering the price, but I do feel that the ABS vacuum formed hull could be of a slightly better quality. Also I am finding the ply wood to be rather brittle. Does anybody have an idea for a good filler to use to fill the chips which will take to acrylic paint. I have prepared the hull and added the propeller shaft and rudder holes. Care taken here to avoid splits in the plastic. Cellotape on both sides before drilling helps.🤓 I have assembled the internal parts which hold the motor, battery and rudder and also fitted the prop shaft.😲 I will start on the deck and superstructure next. An additional note about the kit. The instructions are reasonable but they are in black and white which is not helpful considering they are photograph based with text. I found a PDF on the web which is in full colour. Why don`t Krick supply this. Surely not that expensive.🤔
    2 years ago by MouldBuilder
    Blog
    BRAVE BORDERER
    Blog 4 update – Adjustable transom flap using metallic tape did not work. Think the vibration caused flexing and fatigue, so it finally split. Fortunately had established the correct angle, so reproduced the flap arrangement with a fixed thin alloy plate. Much more robust. Have installed the new brushless motors and ESCs. The current layout is brushless motors on the outer propellers and brushed on the centre, all powered by a single 3S Li-Po battery and Rx. Am hoping to commence water trails this week, but have found an issue which was also present with the original brushless motors. When either brushless motor is powered up it operates nicely, however, as soon as the second motor is started either motor “stutters” and a pronounced “squeal” can be heard. The
    brushed motor
    is unaffected. Have now tried several ESCs but to no avail, the issue remains. It can be cured though by powering each brushless motor with it's own battery. When this is done everything powers up cleanly and quietly. The obvious solution is to use two Li-Po batteries and abandon the single battery approach. Am reluctant to do this as the model weight will increase yet again. Has anybody experienced this when using twin brushless motors and, if so, how was it resolved?
    1 year ago by RHBaker
    Forum
    Cheap motor for a quick fit, but what prop gents?...
    Aha, I assumed it was an airyplane motor. I had an Ugly Stick once, given to me with a speed 400 motor and a gearbox with a bent shaft. So the motor came on board as a spare and the gearbox was dumped, but I stopped doing aircraft and so gave the Ugly Stik back to its reluctant owner. There's a whole range of Ugly Stik type things, all ugly and odd looking but apparently they fly very well. Looks like your photo shows a brushed 380 type motor with gearing too. Not sure about the 62mm length! it's way shorter than that. Has, as you can see, a flange mount. There's no mount for the blue one. The magnetism is amazing. I can hardly turn the shaft with fingers. So, do you reckon the motors would work in a boat? Cheers, Martin
    1 year ago by Westquay
    Forum
    Cheap motor for a quick fit, but what prop gents?...
    Hi Doug, yes, very similar sizes. (Nice finish on your Sea Hornet, btw. Mine cost me 99p off ebay!). My drill motor is from a 14.4Volt one, if I can find it! OR, I'll buy a 20,000 rev one from ebay. Roughly the same I should think. I'm going brushed because I have ESCs to use up, apart from the one or two for the Taycols, thanks to your kind provision of electro-boards. I was thinking 30-35mm prop. so that's good to have confirmed. This is actually the first full installation I've ever done in a model boat. My Sea Urchin is free running, the Crash Tender was installed by my Dad with REP single channel stuff and I once put a rudder servo in my brother's borrowed 575 yacht. Everything else (and that's a lot) has been static. Just got the steering servo mounted and made a sweet wee box for the Rx to help prevent it getting wet. Motor next. Cheers, Martin
    1 year ago by Westquay
    Forum
    Cheap motor for a quick fit, but what prop gents?...
    Hi, Lots of factors to take into consideration, 1 specification of motor 2 voltage to be used 3 size and weight of the boat 4 speed you wish to achieve 5 Current limitations (20A) Besides the above if it is a
    brushed motor
    and your limit is 20A I would opt for a propeller of 30mm to 35mm (low pitch). The old rule for
    brushed motor
    is do not use a prop any bigger than the diameter of the motor. the bigger the prop/pitch the more current and a hot ESC. Act with caution, put a 15A fuse in line just in case to protect your ESC. It is difficult to give advice there are lots of unknowns.
    1 year ago by CB90


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