Forum

Folding ????!

Hello all. I was just going over the plan of the cargo ship, Hunan, and found that I had missed a marking on it stating, 'folding '. I have attached an image of the plan. Can anyone tell me about these. I presume that these sections could be laid flat on the deck to allow anything on the derrick not to crash into the . There are several of these sections in the s elsewhere and yet I can see no information on how these were held in place, or hinged. For example its the section hinged at the bottom to allow the whole to fall to the deck or, does the top rail of the hinge back on top of the top rail preceding it and then just a flat panel rests on the deck. Further how is it all locked in situ as a . Any ideas anyone? Toby

5 years ago by Toby

Blog

Detailing the deck.

Some obeche coaming strips were added to the insides of the well deck and a piece was added at the rear which notches into the side coamings, this required shaping to the curvature of the deck so I wound some masking tape around a pencil to the required diameter and marked a line on the coaming to sand the profile down to. This piece won’t be fixed in place until I have added some internal detail in the rear of the well deck. Some thin strip was fitted along the sides of the deck which form part of the ‘treads’ that run the length of the cabin sides, these were glued and pinned in place after the edges and ends were rounded. At this point I applied some ‘Antique Pine’ stain to the s, rubbing fenders and deck strips. The position of the treads that run along the deck for the length of the cabin sides were marked by taking a measurement from the plan and transferring this to the deck strips. The tread angle from the plan was determined to be 68 degrees using a digital angle finder (another little bargain find in Lidl for less than a tenner 👍👍) and position marks pencilled on the deck. I chose to mark and apply these treads as per the model that is in the National Maritime Museum which I’m following to recreate my version of the Police Launch. These ‘photos have been very helpful in detailing this model. They can be seen here: https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/67590.html I used some temporary spacer strips along the cabin sides and deck strips and then cut and shaped each tread individually to fit in the desired positions, all the treads were fixed using a couple of dots of superglue making sure that no glue got onto the deck surface as CA and aliphatic glue does affect the way the obeche accepts the wood stain as I discovered when I did some ‘colour tests’ earlier. The whole deck was then given a very light rub down with a fine abrasive pad before the first of several coats of ‘Teak’ stain was applied. The contrasting colours of the Antique Pine and Teak stain works well on this model and is in keeping with the wood colours of the NMM model that I’m using as a reference. EDIT…..I have just noticed that the digital angle finder and digital callipers are back on sale at Lidl on 3rd of March for £9.99 each…….still a bargain 😁👍 https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/MiddleofLidl.htm?articleId=20539

5 years ago by robbob

Forum

Folding ????!

Have just been checking my book of merchant ship construction, there is no mention of folding up to the 1942 publication date, but a really useful book of reference to ship building. See the pictures. Cheers Colin.

5 years ago by Colin H

Forum

Folding ????!

Hello John Thank you for looking through your new books! The picture you have uploaded is indeed a curious and interesting vessel. I have never seen such before. Could make a great ahs unusual model. I believe I have the cargo winches sorted and hope to make those next week. Now to sort an anchor winch. I have asked a number of modellers about folding s and I have been met with no idea expression each time. Obviously not something modellers bother with out would seem. Regards Toby

5 years ago by Toby

Forum

Folding ????!

hi Toby I have received 2 books I was expecting and I am sorry but there isn't any information on folding s amongst them … big side track though; they are on about turret ships and these look really really interesting, possibly a future build methinks. I will keep looking for information for you,. John

5 years ago by JOHN

Forum

Folding ????!

Thank you. I have indeed scrolled to that and it is the file that downloaded without telling me it was or had so. In the index page 200 mentions collapsible s and this is found actually on page 212 in the pdf. it seems to refer to lifeboats and albeit a few pages several are blocked from view as are some of the drawings. I believe it said one has to be a member in order to see those pages. I don't think that the information concerns the ship's but rather the side of a ship's lifeboat. What was it that you read? Am I yet in the wrong link. T

5 years ago by Toby

Forum

Folding ????!

Sorry Toby I should have said scroll down to the forgotten books line. then when you click on that it automatically downloads in pdf. in my case in Adobe.A very useful file etc. Sorry for the mixup. when you open the file you should find some stuff.👍

5 years ago by onetenor

Forum

Folding ????!

If only it showed us a definitive folding system. it did give some info though. I shall go back to that and note it. T

5 years ago by Toby

Forum

Folding ????!

John I have just read through the whole of the Pursey. Fascinating and helpful with good illustrations. Toby

5 years ago by Toby

Forum

Folding ????!

Hello Onetenor I cannot get the first link to work. it seems to bring up Google and images of hinges. I have just found a downloaded file on my mobile concerning ship's boats. is this the file to the link you sent? T

5 years ago by Toby

Forum

Folding ????!

https://www.google.com/search?ei=xc9gXPmHL9Kf1fAPmr6I8Ag&q=++cargoBoat++folding++hinges&oq=++cargoBoat++folding++hinges&gs_l=psy-ab.12...250042.275580..282666...0.0..0.140.1366.13j3......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j35i304i39.mwjIzbkKs5g If you click on this one when it comes up you will get an immediate pdf download of very interesting stuff. I hope this helps.👍🤓 This also may help. https://archive.org/stream/shipsboatstheir00blocgoog/shipsboatstheir00blocgoog_djvu.txt it mentions folding s and their stowage.👍

5 years ago by onetenor

Forum

Folding ????!

John I have just found an uploaded pdf of the book you cite. Off to have a peruse. Toby

5 years ago by Toby

Forum

Folding ????!

Thank you Steve and thank you John for the message and the drawing. I shall be intrigued as to what you find in your new book arrivals. The drawing is very clear and confirms the sort of understanding I had thought from your earlier text. Clearly the strap hinges however many they be per section would be logical and strong. Steve's farm gate comparison also would serve. Two other questions arise, namely: Would there be supports in these sections because they would have to be removable and fastened? What is the locking mechanism when the section is upright in its home position and would there be some sort of keep plate to prevent the section leaning over the side. I am just going to look online for the book you mention.

5 years ago by Toby

Forum

Folding ????!

The strap hinge could also have had a fixed pin on one half and a loop on the other in the same way farm gates are hinged. When the was folded down it could be slid sideways and off the hinge pins to remove it. When in its upright position it could not move sideways so could not come off of the pins. Steve

5 years ago by steve-d

Forum

Folding ????!

HELLO Toby well, I have done a drawing, but, I forgot to label it before I scanned it in - (if you can call it a drawing). You will see I have drawn the hinges in and also the pin that would go through the hinge, you will notice that I have drawn an oblong hole in the end of the pin and this is where a tapered wedge would be driven in to lock it into place when the pin is through the hinge. There is also a chain (the scribbled thing on the top of the tapered wedge) which would be secured to the other end of the bolt to prevent it from being lost. The pins would only be removed from the hinges when the would need to be removed completed - and - this would be lifted out of place with a ships derrick. As far as handrails go, as far as I can find out, they are located in sockets which are rivetted to the deck and a pin / bolt placed through the bottom of the railing stanchion to secure it into place. Give me a couple of days (I am expecting a couple of books in the post) which are about tramp steamers - and - it may give us some more information of what we are looking for. Another book which I find extremely helpful (and you may have it already) is Merchant Ship Construction by H.J. Pursey it doesn't seem to have an ISBN number on this one - it was first published in 1942 :-) good book though - and sometimes it comes up for sale on u know where :-)

5 years ago by JOHN

Forum

Folding ????!

Hello John Thank you again. I did appreciate seeing the earlier picture with a different style of opening. The latest image is a delightful period photo is it not. Beautifully lit and good colour with interesting detail. John, re your view of hinging would you do me a favour and be kind enough to make a sketch of what you say in order that I might visualise more clearly where and how the fixings would look. From such I would be able to fashion something. Also, with regard to removable railings when they are in situ, how are they locked or kept in place or do they just rely simply on long stemmed stanchions going in to the deck and the weight of the railings to keep in situ. T

5 years ago by Toby

Forum

Folding ????!

hi there, I posted the 2nd pic of the s opening out over to show that there were various styles of openings in s. You are correct by saying the plans show a dotted line indicating that the s would fold flat to the deck / be totally removable for loading access to the ship. As far as how the sections would be secured to the deck normally I think would be strap hinges with removable pins and also angular supports from the deck to the top of the . I have another pic which I found on the web but its got getty images ross setford stamped right over it :-) so this also shows large openings for 'gangway access' or 'access'

5 years ago by JOHN

Forum

Folding ????!

Steve and Doug Thank you. This would be my view also and thus the difficulty arises as to know how they were hinged and fastened. Toby

5 years ago by Toby

Forum

Folding ????!

I would agree Steve, one is also clearly labelled as a Gangway access. Cheers, Doug😎

5 years ago by RNinMunich

Forum

Folding ????!

Whilst the photo and others comments are for the opening like gates the plans the OP has show a dotted line on the deck implying, IMO, that the folds inwards to lay flat on the deck. The dotted line representing where the would lay. Steve

5 years ago by steve-d

Forum

Folding ????!

IIRC means if I Recall Correctly. No the hinges are vertical A La Park Gates The closing edges secured by a rod or bar dropped through holes in welded on overlapping plates with holes in them. The hinges are made likewise. Plates with holes in supported by round bars welded to plates welded to the side. Maybe to a rib or stanchion for strength. The "gates" opened outwards. I hope you can follow this and it helps.👍 P.S. Look VERY closely at BLUEBIRD'S photo. Click on it to enlarge it.🤓

5 years ago by onetenor

Forum

Folding ????!

Hello Onetenor, Thank you for another helpful bit of info. I am not sure what is meant by IIRC though. I asm assuming the hinge runs along the waterway. T

5 years ago by Toby

Forum

Folding ????!

I've just remembered I have seen these folding s on cattle boats in Birkenhead.As I recall the hinges were simple hole and pin type like a gate hinge. Held closed by a rod through overlapping plates with holes in IIRC. I don't recall the rails though as I only saw them open.👍

5 years ago by onetenor

Forum

Folding ????!

John Your method helped for I found an image of a door of ship yard number 550 and Hunan is 555. Likely Hunan had the same type of door? The ships were 2 years apart. T

5 years ago by Toby

Forum

Folding ????!

hi there Toby, back again - I did a quick search this morning to see if I could find any more photographs to help you - I only found the one which may be of help - to show you the loading procedure - if you note these doors open out-over on the ships' sides. One of the methods I use for finding info on a vessel is not to always type the vessel name in but go for the Company's name and go for sister ships and what the ship's trading route was. This sort of method of investigation has helped me a lot - it does side track you because you inevitably read about or come across pics of Company ships which are similar to the one you are building.

5 years ago by JOHN

Forum

Folding ????!

Hi Toby the only image I saved is this one , I will have a look for you for more john

5 years ago by JOHN

Forum

Folding ????!

In this section of plan one can see sections of removable rails in the s and the folding s.

5 years ago by Toby

Forum

Folding ????!

Hello John Thank you for looking into this subject on my behalf. Much appreciated! What did you use as a search online because I have spent time trying to find any helpful cargo loading images and have not found an example. Did you save any of the images. Things like this and even such as correct doors present problems because the details are not on the plans. If you can give me a lead that would be great. I will now have another search. Toby

5 years ago by Toby

Forum

Folding ????!

It's a gangway access point I think👍

5 years ago by onetenor

Response

Aerokits/Jotika Sea Queen

Titebond 3 is a high performance PVA. We can't get Titebond 3 here in South Africa. Gorilla/Gator glue you which is a polyurethane based glue have to Work using Rubber Gloves and have a bottle of rubbing Alcohol handy as it sticks like mad and you won't be able to get it off your hands. I still have Cascamite! Been using a Sika PVA adhesive but the s were fitted with ZAP 30 minute Epoxy. I have found an eight hour epoxy to fix the stringers to the bulkheads with with. Why is it we make short worktime adhesives is beyond me. I have always found that the quickset glues are prone to be brittle. The only one I haven't found to be brittle is ZAP. Going to epoxy the inside of the boat before fitting the skins

5 years ago by Ianh

Forum

Ship rudders

Thanks Doug And bear in mind this vessel is 6ft 6" in length and about 12" keel to s so roughly 13ft x 2ft of plate and rivet effect. Bottom gets saw and the eyesight tires. But hopefully the effect will be worth it

5 years ago by Toby

Blog

Aerokits/Jotika Sea Queen

I made this from a 54" long piece of Melamine shelving. shallow cut a centre ine down the middle 1/16" wide. The board was then marked into 2" squares using a laundry marker. The design concept was from a fuselage jig I had made by SLEC. The holes required for the brackets are M5 with captive ( T nuts) underneath pulled up into the bottom of the board. The red tape down the centre is masking tape ( the high quality stuff) this was to stop the boat glueing itself to the board. As the the keel has a skeg we needed to raise the keel to ensure parallelism I used an Enginerers Marking out block and two doorstops on this.The angles can slide and you then clamp the s on I used thirty minute epoxy for this although I would like a longer working time epoxy. s 3 and 4 with the motor base was also epoxied together. This was then located on the keey ( Dryfit along with the other bulkheads. A word of advice here use the cabin sides to ensure alignment. Check with a rule and squares before gluing anything.

6 years ago by Ianh

Response

s and Dingy

Impressive work Canabus👍 Construction is very similar to the Billing Danish fish cutter I am slowly restoring and converting from static to RC so picked up some useful tips from your photos. Thanks 😊 Cheers, Doug 😎

6 years ago by RNinMunich

Blog

s and Dingy

Hi All Installed the s and started on the dingy which I added 19mm to the stern to match the hatch size. Canabus

6 years ago by canabus

Blog

Assemble the hull

The s were out in place on the jig and glued with ZAP 30 minute epoxy. I used the cabin sides to align the bulkheads. By the way Clamps you will need a lot of these

6 years ago by Ianh

Response

Stays

Hi Mike, fellow Leo! Mine is 6 days later 17.08. I've also been in Oran, Algeria, several times, talking to the navy and the naval shipyard in Mers El Kebir just round the headland from Oran. Yep, that's right, where the RN reluctantly shot up the French fleet in WW2. Result of the discussions; 3 Patrol Boats built in Mers El Kebir, 2 Frigates built in Germany, 1 Training ship and 3 Corvettes built in China. The italians nicked my design for the COMMS system for the LPD which was built in italy (incentive - Govt. funding!), otherwise I'd have had that as well. 😡 You can't win 'em all 😉 I got my revenge just before I retired when I won the contracts for 7 ships for the Qatar Navy, built in italy by the same Genoa yard as the Algerian LPD. 😁 Cheers, Doug 😎

6 years ago by RNinMunich

Response

Stays

Very interesting Doug not to go on and on Since the seaman’s story’s I was told are way to colorful for this site, but your mention of Oman reminded me of my birthday August 1944 my old man told me he was in Oran unloading and on the 11th of August a bird flew in to his cabin that’s my birthday. Have a Good evening Mike

6 years ago by Mikep

Response

Stays

Evenin' Mike, Murmansk as well! Your Pa must have been through the mill! During my nefarious travels over the last few decades I ended up in Muscat, Oman a few times to discuss COMMS refits and upgrades for their fleet. in Muscat I stayed at the Marriott hotel which has a bar called 'The John Barry Bar'. Since I only knew John Barry from the James Bond theme I wondered why! The barkeep told me it referred to a liberty ship supposedly carrying bullion to Russia and sunk off the Oman coast in August 1944. In fact she was carrying silver coins to Saudi Arabia! They didn't have paper currency then so that was the only way for the allies to provide funds for services rendered. If I ever build a Liberty ship model - she will be it! Cheers, Doug 😎 PS Took several 'John Barry' beermats from the bar 😉

6 years ago by RNinMunich

Response

Stays

Thanks for the kind words and history my farther was a engineer on merchants libertys and Victory’s WW2 all battle theatres Murmansk the lot. I was his wiper Oiler, fireman on stationary boilers and generators eventually got my NYC High pressure license and refrigeration license. I recently took a day trip on the S.S. John W Brown www.ssjohnbrown.org in Baltimore USA.

6 years ago by Mikep

Response

Stays

Hi Mike, tedious job🤔 but the build's looking good👍 BTW: by sheer coincidence yesterday i saw a documentary on National Geographic about Commander Robert Peary, an American explorer who claimed to have been the first person to reach the geographic North Pole. Your ship was named after him. "SS Robert E. Peary was a Liberty ship which gained fame during World War II for being built in a shorter time than any other such vessel. Named after, Commander Robert Peary, an American explorer who claimed to have been the first person to reach the geographic North Pole. She was launched on November 12, 1942 just 4 days, 15 hours and 29 minutes after the keel was laid down." https://www.wikiwand.com/en/SS_Robert_E._Peary Pronounced 'Peery' So if you're fitting nameplates .....! Cheers, Doug 😎

6 years ago by RNinMunich

Forum

LED Tug Mast Navigation Lights

Hi, Doug. I’ve attached a zoomed-in photo of the “Anchor Enclosure” that’s built into the starboard bow of the Wyeforce. There’s an anchor in the box but I can’t tell for sure what kind it is. Maybe a navy-type with the fluke & bill pointed inward toward the deck? A better photo is needed to be sure, so I’ll keep looking. The enclosure itself would be simple to build & fit to the hull. I remember seeing a photo of the boat’s foredeck area that showed what may have been a hawse pipe running inboard from behind anchor enclosure & down through the deck, presumably to a winch belowdecks? Does that make sense? Pete

6 years ago by PittsfieldPete

Forum

LED Tug Mast Navigation Lights

Doug: I feel like a dunce for not noticing that anchor before. it sticks out like a sore thumb if you know where to look. That’s another thing that I’m surprised hobby engine didn’t add to the boat. I guess in the long run it was easier for moldmaking purposes to omit that particular detail. That’s another thing, however, that wouldn’t be all that hard to scratchbuild. All that’s needed is to cut an opening in the & build a sheet styrene box for the housing. it’s not exactly a high priority item, but I think it would go a long way toward adding realism. So far none of the photos of the Wyforce I seen show what the anchor enclosure looks like on the inside of the . Then again maybe some of them did & I missed that, too. I assume there’s an anchor winch, possibly below deck near the chain locker. I expect there’s a “drop/raise” button inside the pilot house. I’ll browse for a photo of the anchor & post it if I succeed. Thanks

6 years ago by PittsfieldPete

Blog

Running Lights Completed!

Running Lights are now in place! Brooklyn is complete except for the bollard. Which aren't glued in place yet! Because the caprail needs to be ground down! In certain area's! So, the bollards can be placed against the !

6 years ago by figtree7nts

Response

17-28 Torbay Severn Lifeboat

The Southampton has lots of screws around the deck but some are under the bollards so you need to remove them, there are two aft bollards which need to be gently prised loose but the others are scewed to the s. I changed the radio in mine as well as the motor/gearboxes and fitted a v.tail mixer from www.mr-rcworld.co.uk with 2 speed contollers as well as converting the battery holder to take a six volt nimh pack. The effect is awesome. Happy sailing😁

6 years ago by TheBlacksmith

Blog

Live and learn!

OK, I've learned that. When paint companies make a batch of paint. You should get as many cans from that batch as possible! For a set project if need be! I used Bright Touch automotive paint. For the and outer hull. Had to get two more cans of the stuff. It being BT43 Flat Black! Wouldn't you know it's a different shade!😡 Not too far off but, noticeable! At least the Red Oxide Primer. Being BT51 is the same shade! I must have lucked out on that one! So what have I learned. Get two or more cans if needed at the same time!👍

6 years ago by figtree7nts

Forum

Steep angled rudder shafts

Ron, there is nowhere near enough space for that and also the twisted arms would still move through a strange path. I have snakes, but they don't seem to work as well as the man suggested. So, I've ordered a universal joint in steel which fits a 4mm shaft. I will take a short bit of 4mm out of the top on which will be the arm I've made, but that will need a bearing (just thought of that as I typed) otherwise it will flop about all over the place. Damn! More space I haven't got. Looks like the pulley idea might be the only way of working it, but getting access to those pulleys would be very awkward. I have very little space back there. We're in the lazarette and that was bend double territory on the real boat. The only other way would be to actuate the tiller on deck, once again with pulleys. I'm making the tiller currently. I may have to look into a deck operated system, with the line coming out of the middle of the deck and then via a pulley on either . Cheers, Martin

6 years ago by Westquay

Response

capping

Looks very shipshape Baggie, or is it a toast rack 😁 Unusual construction style in two halves. Look forward to seeing how it turns out 👍 Build Blog???

6 years ago by RNinMunich

Forum

Help Needed new Builder Billings St Canute

R E the planking i would suggest that you cut the timber at the closest bulk head to where the blank ends then with the length of timber that you cut of the end piece use that for the next plank starting at the opposite end to the last one and just keep repeating as you go, that way you dont get joints in the same area along the hull making it stronger just remember that you need to cut at a and to leave half of the thickness of the for your next joining timber. do not cut the lengths in half as all you end up doing is wasting a lot of material and joints in the same area of the hull resulting in a weak point. Ron

6 years ago by kmbcsecretary

Response

Boatdeck & boatdeck planking

Excellant job.Thanks for the hint of using the thread.Looks better than magic marker on the edge of the planks.

6 years ago by Donnieboy

Response

Boatdeck & boatdeck planking

Hi That is looking good.👍 Keep up the good work, looking forward to your updates. Fred

6 years ago by Fred