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    Forum
    Mclaren Clockwork Submarines U50
    Ahoy Mateys, U50 under construction. its got twin
    contra rotating
    props. I made the chassis for the gearbox and motor from an old gas fire that some kind person dumped at the end of my street.I don't mind anything metal but I can do without the mattresses! Cheers.
    5 years ago by mactin
    Directory
    (Tug Boat) Fairmount Alpine
    Tug. Twin
    contra rotating
    props. Bow Thruster. (8/10)
    5 years ago by DannyZ
    Forum
    Bow wave suppression
    Hi Floating Voter, I do so agree that I should be flying, not ploughing. in fact, she does plane quite well, but she is 'dirty' at very high speeds.I am concerned that sooner or later, I will have electrical problems, despite trying to be careful not to overuse the throttle. She is fitted with 2 x JP EnErG brushless 600 O/R 1550 (C35 141), driving 38mm scale-type brass three bladers, contra-rotating. The pack is a 7.4 v, 30C lipo.
    6 years ago by wunwinglo
    Blog
    H.M.S. BRAVE BORDERER
    Just to clarify. Shipping was only 7 days to Canada, manufacture slightly longer. Examined the hull closely and was pleased. it is dimensionally accurate and robust, but light. it had also been reinforced in strategic areas and trimmed to the correct deck line. My many questions to Christian Sheppard – Capurro of MTBHulls were quickly and knowledgeably answered. A company I would recommend others. Reviewing the build blogs and U Tube videos of the both the Brave and Perkasa models, shows most use either single or twin screws. The original vessel had a triple screw contra - rotating layout. Experience from others suggests the third screw just adds weight and complexity, but little to the performance. Nevertheless, it was how the Braves were built, so that was how it would be. Christian gave several suggestions for other modelers who have built this vessel. Contacted them and was readily provided with information and advice. The finished weight of this model is important and a target of around 6 lbs recommended for a 1:32 scale version. This is to achieve the potential performance. Plans for drivetrain are 3 x 2835 4500kVa brushless motors, direct driving 3 x scale 3 blade 30mm screws. Decided use a single Li-Po battery for the best performance with minimum weight. It was suggested three batteries, each powering a single motor would be the best layout. After some research, concluded this would introduce a weight penalty and was discounted. There are various ideas for the best drivetrain. Unfortunately none for triple screws. Decided the best approach would be to fit the bare hull out as planned, then try it. Leaving all the finishing features for later. A contact in Australia had already done this using a single screw layout and kindly sent pictures of his hull layout and then under test. Very informative. The positions of the rudders, propellers and shafts are established by the scale dimensions and were permanently installed. Everything else was to be temporarily fitted, so it could be moved or replaced if necessary.
    6 years ago by Rowen
    Directory
    (Pleasure Craft) Billings Sea King
    Found at a Boot Sale in a sorry state. Retained the 2 Como motors but replaced ESC with Chinese Fan Cooled 320a. Acoms AR-201 Rx, Futaba servo all linked to new old stock Acoms Techniplus Alpha 27mhz Tx. New rudder, original propshaft with new couplings. Hull painted in Hammerite Gold and Plastikote white. Retained orignal Billings decals. New stanchions and rails. Re-veneered deck and added some fancy balsa work. Plains well after contra-rotating the props. (Motor: 2 x Como Drill) (ESC: Chinese 320a Fan cooled) (8/10)
    6 years ago by AllenA
    Forum
    46'' Firefloat What Motor/Battery
    Hiya Many thanks for taking the time to reply sir...very much appreciated. All useful stuff.....current battery weighs 2kg!! My props are three bladed 40mm dia
    contra rotating
    . Purchased with advice from "Prop-shop" Cheers πŸ‘ J.J
    6 years ago by moormedic
    Directory
    (Pleasure Craft) Swordsman hull
    This was my first serious attempt at model boating and the hull a Swordsman fibreglass 34.1/2" was purchases 50 years ago from Radio Control supplies isleworth in 1967 along with a used RCS Sequential radio. Over the years it's been powered by an ED 2.46 Racer a Merco 35 and finally my treasured OS61 VRM With a tuned pipe from Prestwich model boats. Now it's time for a a total rebuild so i,be decided to try twin
    contra rotating
    screws and brushed 600 motors. I'm looking to fit a superstructure akin to a Sea King. So far the hull has been stripped of all its hardware and all holes made good with resin and glass fibre tape. Currently making jigs to set up the two new propshafts On first test run brushed motors were very disappointing so onto plan B. Latest setup will be 2 x 3670 2100kv each with 100amp ESC. The lead acid battery made the hull very unstable so it's back to lipo batteries (Motor: 3670 x2) (ESC: Chinese) (9/10)
    7 years ago by Rex3644
    Forum
    BRAVE / PERKASA MTB
    Am scurrying around looking for a future project and have decided to attempt the Vosper Brave class MT/GB. Will use a hull that is about 37" long from MTBHULLS, as that is the size that fits our usual sailing venues best. There are a number of members who have built either the Brave or the Perkasa derivative. Can anybody suggest the best electric drivetrain for this project? At this stage am thinking of triple screws, individually powered so getting a contra-rotating screw should be relatively easy. Would like to emulate the performance of the original if possible. Appreciate any advise on this project and recommendations for a successful model.
    7 years ago by Rowen
    Response
    Billings Sea King refit
    The speed 600s should be great. I have the original Como 480s and it went well. Was much improved when I made sure the props were contra-rotating. I know, Rookie mistake but then I am still a Rookie.
    7 years ago by AllenA
    Forum
    pt boat
    I am having a clear out to make room for my new project, so have for sale my scratch built pt boat, the hull is a resized to 29" from a eezebilt plan. all the deck fittings were copied as good as I could get it from drawings and photos on line. it is fitted with two 2200 kv out runner motor, two
    contra rotating
    30mm propellers an two 10 amp forward reverse speed controllers. it can be run with either two 7.2 volt or single 7.2 volt batteries using the adaptor cable which will be included. i have no idea what its worth so lets say Β£85 ono I have sailed it less than 4 hoursto fast for me. open to reasonable offers collection advised from lincoln but could meet alf way if required
    7 years ago by basilsdad
    Media
    pt 109
    a 30"scratch built pt. boat, I built hull from .8mm ply using a resized eezebilt 20" plan. the deck fittings were copied as best as I could from photos and drawings found on line. powered by 2- 2200kv brushless out runner motors through 2 20 amp speed controllers. twin
    contra rotating
    props twin rudders fast and light a pleasure to build 2
    7 years ago by basilsdad
    Forum
    Counter Rotating Props
    Inwards or outwards - should the props be turning to meet together above the shaft or below it? Also from Wikipedia "Contra-rotating is where parts of a mechanism rotate in opposite directions about a common axis, usually to minimise the effect of torque. Contra-rotating propellers should not be confused with counter-rotating propellers, a term which describes non-coaxial propellers on separate shafts; one turning clockwise and the other counter-clockwise." Torpedoes are a marine example of contra-rotating props. Roy
    7 years ago by Trillium
    Forum
    Counter Rotating Props
    with my 4 foot fireboat, I use
    contra rotating
    props, from propshop. I was advised by them to have them turning outwards, as viewed from the rear, there was an explanation, I've forgotten it, however, on the water, at speed, turning was difficult, the boat just wanted to roll. I swopped them over, so turning inwards, and the handling was cured in an instance. its easy enough to try one way, then the other, see what is best for you, but remember to use some sort of none permanent thread lock or you might lose one of your props
    7 years ago by pmdevlin
    Forum
    Counter Rotating Props
    Actually for ships with props on separate prop shafts it's counter rotating. Contra refers to aircraft equipped with contra-rotating propellers with rotation about the same axis in opposite directions. Contra-rotating propellers should not be confused with counter-rotating propellers on separate shafts turning in opposite directions. I was intrigued by this discussion, possibly because it reminded me of my model flying days. What would we do without Wiki! Dave
    7 years ago by Dave M
    Forum
    Counter Rotating Props
    CONTRA AND COUNTER rotating Props . Actually both are correct. Probably counter rotating is more correct for ships. We could argue for days!! Anyway they both go in different directions. One clock wise when the other is anticlockwise, but make sure they have left and right hand props, not the same type or you will be in trouble.
    7 years ago by MAXTON
    Forum
    Counter Rotating Props
    They are CONTRA not COUNTER rotating and on LIFEBOATS they turn inwards on other vessels they generally turn outwards when the vessel is in the forward direction.
    7 years ago by MAXTON
    Response
    U35 clockwork submarine
    U35... Finally done! 2 Months this one took! 3 Ballast Tanks Clockwork Timer for the compressed air system clockwork motor for the coaxial
    contra rotating
    tandem props. Maximum time on the bottom 1 hour. clockwork tinplate submarines are great fun!
    7 years ago by mactin
    Forum
    1/200 Yamato
    Hi guys Im having a clear out of stuff ill never get around to and thought Id give club members a chance on this one. If not its off to ebay next week. Ive decided to let my Barn find 1/200 Nichimo Yamato go. Bought about a year ago and really all ive done is taken it apart. Its been stored in a shed before that for thirty years but i reckon its 95% there. Β£350. Collection only from Dorking in Surrey. Pictures here of before stripping down: http://www.crispyandtherocketman.com/blank http://www.crispyandtherocketman.com/blank?lightbox=dataItem-ip6mpok2 [b][i][u]What you get:[/u][/i][/b] As you can see from the pictures when she came to me she had been stored in someone’s shed for the last thirty years. Virtually all there but infested with spiders and covered with an inch of grime. Scroll forward six months and all the parts that could be teased away have been and washed and in some cases primed. Hull stripped and primed. The original noisey
    contra rotating
    gearbox is included but prop connectors had perished. Suggest replace this gear box anyway. Damage to the bow. Ok I won’t lie I dropped a hammer on the damned thing. The ABS plastic foredeck shattered. Took the opportunity to replace the oversize tread plate with correct scale 1/200 tread plate. Damage repaired. Old deck retained so that the anchor fairings could be remade to replace on new deck. Other fittings all salvaged to be refitted on new deck. Rear hanger remade to include a full hanger. Rudder stem needs to be trimmed to allow for deeper hanger. Easy job. Aircraft. Three included all apart for rebuilding. Boats. All present I think. Main guns . Started work on crafting two line railings as wanted to use plastic for strength as this was going to be a pond runner. Easy job to finish. Brass etch doors added Rest of the bits. Are all contained in several pots for sifting through. I can honestly say there will be a few minor items missing but nothing major or that can be scratch built. Very few of the single AA machine guns made it to me, theres a few for templates or casting f you can do that. Superstructure. Complete as far as I can tell. The Big AA guns are all complete and present. Some barrels are dinged but all present. Those that can be removed for working on have been. Rest are stuck on solid. If your interested PM me and Ill take pictures of what she looks like now for you.
    7 years ago by Tinman0405
    Media
    U35 clockwork submarine
    Hi MBW,s Tinplate clockwork torpedo/submarine propulsion is twin coaxial
    contra rotating
    props totally scratch built handmade. its about half way through the build at the moment just doing the clockwork ballast timer and compressed air system. Cant wait to chuck it in the oggin.
    7 years ago by mactin
    Response
    Victory Industries Vosper Fire Boat RC conversion part 8
    This is the props bit from the instructions, "I bought a pair of contra-rotating brass props from the Prop Shop taking their advice on the best size for the boat (their ref 0871/3 M2). The prop shafts are Graupner jobs with 96mm tubes, 114mm shafts with M2 threads. At around the same time I bought half a dozen cheap 6V motors, the intention being to use one per shaft." Forget the cheap motors, I'm running 2 x 280's at the moment and a 9V pack of AAA batteries spread out around the area where the original battery tray was. Not ideal. it's either more power, brushless, and lighter batteries or major weight loss, re-building the deck and above in lighter material. I still intend to rebuild the old one I dissected to see exactly was inside. I haven't the 'oomph' to this at the moment but it will happen, honest. in fact this discussion has got the juices stirred..... πŸ‘
    8 years ago by smiggy
    Forum
    Veron Huntsman 28
    I can make a suggestion since you need a simple system Have a look at these systems http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/Brushless_Motors_Other.html at only 28 inch the smaller of the 3 would be more than powerful enough. Remove the red receiver lead from one of the ESC so only one BEC is in use. and couple them together through a "y" lead. a 3cell LIPO would provide all the power you need chose a capacity to suit the available space. if your not used to LIPO batteries then PLEASE READ UP ON THEM FIRST they are not robust. You would also need a LIPO specific balanced charger. Even though the 2 ESC would be driven by the same control channel you can still have contra-rotating props you can reverse the direction of a brushless motor by just swapping over and 2 of the 3 motor leads.
    8 years ago by Haverlock
    Forum
    Propeller for single shaft boat
    HI Dave When the model moves away say from a dock it does kick the stern out to the left, (neutons law) then as speed increases she sails straight, although there is some trim used, this is with my Amsterdam tug, 24v motor 90mm prop, 40" long weighing approx 40 pounds, my other tugs are twin screw
    contra rotating
    Hope this helps Mark
    8 years ago by jarvo
    Media
    HMS Nelson
    HMS Nelson, scratchbuilt to 1/8" scale. Powered by two motors driving twin contrarotating shafts with three blade props. She sails on Lake Lisgar, Tillsonburg, Ontario. I decided on Nelson as she took part in Operation Pedestal, from which I made a 1/216" waterline model of SS Ohio, the ship that saved Malta. She took a little over 600 hours from solid chunk of basswood to launch. Probably info collection took as long!
    8 years ago by Gdaynorm
    Forum
    72'' 6S Brushless Power
    Have fun ~laughs~ make sure its water tight and this is not being silly. if you have never seen fast boats in action https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUKXbIOcg94 You need to be able to adjust thrust angles and will probably need trim tabs. Setting up a fast boat starts with science and ends being a "black art" figure on it flipping on a regular basis. Get a prop balancer and sharpen your props before balancing them. Flexy shafts seem to be the "must have" drive train. http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/fe-hardware.html http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/race-rudders.html Not the only supplier but gives you some ideas as to the kinds of hardware you need to be looking at. if your wedded to a twin setup then you need to consider contra-rotating props so you minimise torque effects. if you use BEC from your esc(s) CUT THE RED LEAD from one esc. else you WILL fry something. I hope your pockets are deep enough cos going fast is EXPENSIVE ( divorce may be a cheaper option) .
    9 years ago by Haverlock
    Forum
    Left Hand props and shafts
    HI Les Haverlock has already answered your question relating to the thread and I agree particularly with his advice to use a locknut. The use of the correct thread is very important if you are running a very fast and powerful racing type of model where the forces acting on the prop are not small and are best used to keep the prop on the shaft, even with a locknut. The use of a locknut on a scale model where both forwards and reverse may be used frequently should help keep the prop in place. As regards two props it is beneficial to use
    contra rotating
    props as the model will be more balanced under way and will also respond correctly to the rudder in both directions, as already advised by jgs43. If you are modelling a true scale model of an original, say a lifeboat, then it will be important to replicate the full size arrangement on your model.
    9 years ago by Dave M
    Forum
    Twin Electric Set Up for Marx Chris Craft Constellation
    HI Biggles If I may just add to Mark's reply, yes you do need two ESCs. Brushless motors run much faster than brushed and the original props on your Chris Craft may be a tad on the large size. This may cause your motors and ESCs to overheat so you need to check this on the water after a short test run. if you have or can borrow a wattmeter this will help measure the amps used in the water. Brushless ESCs can be reversed via the transmitter but many do not. in a fast boat this may not be a problem but it is something to consider. as Mark says you can set the direction by altering any two of the three leads so no problem with
    contra rotating
    props. I agree with the comment about Imported ESC ratings, and whilst some seem OK many fail and its a long way and wait to get a replacement. There are several on line suppliers in the UK offering suitable motors and ESCs and in my opinion they compare favourably in price with overseas suppliers. Dave
    9 years ago by Dave M
    Response
    RNLB RUTH ANN
    Nice model, very neat electrics, well done. How come an American builds and English lifeboat? By the way its contra- rotating props, but if you have a swimming pool as a test tank you must take some criticism, its OK I am only jealous. My first attempt at a model boat was a scratch built Rother at one inch and a quarter to the foot, a big buggar and heavy it had a car battery for power and ballast. Cheers Max 4clubs
    10 years ago by MAXTON
    Blog
    Completed
    Perkasa now finished and maiden voyage completed, build time a bit over five months. Radar rotates and lights work, and Bofors rotates under radio control. initial trials showed that the prop shaft inner had been made out of some bent stainless and it whirled alarmingly at speed, making a horrendous noise. The shaft is quite long and with bearings around 18 inches apart it is very flexible, and the bend when it was stationary just got worse as revs increased. Straightening was found to be Impossible but some Improvement was obtained with a mid-position, pressed in, Teflon bearing, and the terrible rattling/vibration noise was reduced by replacing the rear brass bearing with Teflon. A new inner shaft has however been ordered. With the same motor and batteries as my 46 inch Fireboat and no extra ballast, the Perkasa weighs about 600g more, but its performance seemed to be slightly faster. This boat does have a 5mm larger propeller but still it only drew around 55A maximum. At high speed it lifted noticeably at the front so after the first run I have added some 300g of leaded vinyl - taken from an old X-ray gown - placed under the Bofors. The hull shape at the front is much more successful than the fireboat in keeping water off the deck at slower speeds, but the hull becomes dead flat at the rear making this a real planing boat capable of high speed. With a single motor and a fairly big prop I found considerable torque reaction, and on the first run I couldn't trim the boat to run straight, it just wanted to turn right. The rudder was adjusted quite a bit to overcome this, but I suppose that's not much of a price to pay if the alternative was contra-rotating motors and props, or three props like the original! 😎
    10 years ago by Lauriem
    Blog
    Edmund Gardner Liverpool Pilot Boat -
    As mentioned in my last blog I decided to change the speed controller (escp) with one ordered from Ebay (free postage from China) at Β£8.80. Well it has arrived and I am over the moon with it; it is fan cooled and has two motor outputs for driving two
    contra rotating
    props or just one if you want. it handles 320A and is full proportional in forward or reverse. it works from 6volt to 16volt and has BEC. its now fitted in "Edmund Gardner" and I will be ordering some more at this price!!! Listed as "New 320A 7.2V-16V Brushed ESC Speed Controller for RC Car Truck Boat D1 From China Β£8.80 Free Postage (321456973071) Member ID dealex2011 "
    10 years ago by MAXTON
    Forum
    Victory Industries Crash Tender
    HI Dave many moons ago we played with using an analogue servo as a propulsion unit , but the motors were not powerful enough and increasing the motor size blew up the output transistor bridge of the servos - That was (c) 1977 it was easier with discrete components to uprate the output transistors and we did get a reasonable result . I was thinking single brushed motor driving a single prop and rudder , doing away with the full depth of the rear well and using a baby servo for the rudder and 2s lipo , with a small lipo you can" feel" the boats performance dropping of as the battery goes flat will hunt for the other posts , I don't like the idea of running
    contra rotating
    motors and no rudder , I have seen that on other small boats will think on it whist playing with the larger projects that are already on the go ... πŸ˜‹ regards emma ( electric recumbent tadpole trikes )
    10 years ago by twinkle
    Forum
    Victory Industries Vosper RAF Firefloats
    The main problem is the notors and the current/volts required. You can now get 2500MaH NiMh rechargeable pencells with tags which if made (Soldered) into a single bespoke battery would fit alongside the motors and run aft. Should be plenty of power there. Cheap model helicopters have some very small and powerful motors and are often available very cheaply (free to a good home) as they often break and are not repairable. They are low voltage as well. You can use gears to make
    contra rotating
    shafts from one motor quite easily, sourcing the gears is the problem. Scrap r/c model cars may be a cheap source, even the helicopters. Technobots also sell a range but at a cost. Hope this helps. πŸ˜€
    10 years ago by Dave M
    Forum
    Victory Industries Vosper RAF Firefloats
    Thanks Dave. I did have a thought this morning, I should have weighed the original boat in its sailing trim, batteries and all, and put it in the test tank before I started so I had a datum to work from. I'll be blowed if I'm going to strip the boat down for this but I'll put all the bits in the hull of the wreck and see how that floats/weighs. Finding some batteries might be a problem though. I also have a cunning plan on driving the contra-rotating props from one motor but this will need throwing a few beer tokens at it so don't hold your breath. I value my trips to the therapy centre to talk rubbish with like minded individuals. πŸ˜› You'll have to put a blog up when you do start work on them so everyone can see how a 'pro' tackles it. πŸ‘
    10 years ago by smiggy
    Blog
    Victory Industries Vosper Fire Boat RC conversion part 7
    The maiden voyage. Well, mixed fortunes. The Cunning Plan Mk1c - steering system, small fire boats for the use of worked a treat πŸ‘ Unfortunately the overall weight proved more of a problem than I expected. There was power a plenty and she went like the clappers but getting there was a bit nerve wracking. The angle of the props forced the bow down and I had to be careful until the hull generated enough lift to get the bow up and a give nice bow wave. Not planing like her larger sisters but she did look something like the picture on the box. You can see the problem in the water shot, the green stuff on the foredeck is some pond weed we're plagued with at the moment. (Photos 10 and 10A) The battery position is tricky as this will be single heaviest part of the kit. As you see in Photo 9 I tried Velcro-ing it to the roof of the aft cabin but this put the CoG of the boat too far back and left the transom gunwale just above the water meaning that the well deck would fill with the slightest wave or when reversing. The maiden trip was with a 'hump' 6v pack just ahead of the motors but this meant that although the boat was level the bows were a bit too low. The current set-up is 4 AA batteries, 2 either side of the motors and 2 in the roof as before. it looks OK in the bath........ I hope this will inspire some of you to take the plunge. I'm no engineer and have completed this with a standard household drill, a Dremel type drill for cutting the cockpit hole and the usual small pliers, wire cutters, small files and tweezers any modeller will have to hand and a small desk mounted vice. The only slightly specialist tools were a pack of fine drill bits and a couple of pin drills obtained on Ebay. A small pillar drill would have made drilling the rudder shafts a lot easier but I passed the initiative test (and only broke one drill bit). I only have a very basic understanding of electricity and have only just figured out soldering. This isn't intended to be a definitive solution and if you can see alternatives to the above, especially the power plant let us know. Using lighter motors will help and using just one will too, but driving contra-rotating props from one motor is beyond me - at the moment. Oh, and I really wouldn't advise taking the whole deck off. You'll never get it back on properly unless you're very good or very lucky. I am contemplating rebuilding the test boat but with a completely new deck structure probably made of balsa wood to save weight - and because I bought a load cheap a while ago...........
    10 years ago by smiggy
    Blog
    Victory Industries Vosper Fire Boat RC conversion part 2
    I had already been advised not to use the nice original brass props as they are too large and exert too much torque on the boat at speed. To this end I bought a pair of contra-rotating brass props from the Prop Shop taking their advice on the best size for the boat (their ref 0871/3 M2). The prop shafts are Graupner jobs with 96mm tubes, 114mm shafts with M2 threads. At around the same time I bought half a dozen cheap 6V motors, the intention being to use one per shaft. The prop shafts are a straight swap for the originals being the same outer diameter, always assuming the O rings that seal the hull-shaft join are OK. The motor mounting push fits over the original lugs. Once the motors are attached to the prop shafts everything is secure without having to screw the base down. This alleviates the problem of access to the screws and the motor and bracket assembly is easily fitted and removed. Once the base plate is made and fitted and the motors are mounted onto their base and connected to the shafts and UJs it's a simple job of measuring the wedges that join the two and present the motors at the correct angle. I guess you could just mount the motors horizontally onto the base plate but I don't know what the tolerance of the UJs is. (Photos 2 & 3) The options for different motors and drives, including sticking with the original are many, this is just my take on the issue. The motors I used are quite heavy at 40g each and I have thought of fitting smaller lighter ones. I have a couple but they are 9V and the extra weight of the batteries, let alone the space taken, put me off. Has anyone experience of or ideas about brushless motors and lipo batteries? I was put off lipo when I saw a fire proof bag to put the batteries in when charging them and then the problems Boeing had. They sound like the work of the devil to me! Plus I'd have to cough up some beer tokens for a brushless/lipo set up.
    10 years ago by smiggy


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