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Graupner Elke HF 408
Hope you are not becoming too bored with my boot sale stories but I seem to have hit a rich vein at the moment and can't resist. Here's the Graupner Elke HF 408 picked up on Sunday for £14. Pretty good nick with lots of bits and does not appear to have been sailed or fitted with RC. Again, any help or advice really welcome. Retro fitting a propshaft could be a problem.
3 years ago by AllenA
Hull finishing touches
The Huntsman Hull has now had the finishing touches applied...Sanding Sealer, Eze-Kote, glassfibre sheet and hull chine bars added. The inside of the hull has been given a good dollop of Eze-Kote to seal it and waterproof it so next job is to fit the prop tube and motor before the whole hull gets a coat of primer...
I've only just realised, but the kit from SLEC does not contain any decking, so I need to sort out whether to just go for plain mahogany veneer or try to find teak decking which is laser cut to fit with plank marks....any help or advice here welcome for a novice! (I can't find anything suitable on the internet). 😡
2 years ago by StuartE
Aeronaut Pilot Boat
Thanks for idea for making easier access to Rudder Connections. I have modified mine to similar to yours and all seems well so far. I have not continued with "above" Deck Building but that will be next on the plan. How "Electrical Minded" are you regarding LED wiring etc.? I am looking for a good Website, both for getting advice on Wiring along with suitable supplies for UK source. Any ideas? Thanks again. Ron
2 years ago by RonW
Fairmile D 1/24 Scale Build
Not suggesting Doug dosn't give
or is nothing other than a skilled builder, but the way that post was written came across to me as I described.
Is it such a problem if my boat wont run for more than 10 minuets at full steam, come on man how often do you imagine that scenario evolves, most of the time is spent gently cruising around the pond with the occasional full throttle run to wake up the old farts. Tut Tut such disgraceful behaviour.
2 years ago by bikerjohn57
We are living through a technological change brought on by the Web.
During any technological change some things will be gained and others lost. We saw this with the development of factories during the industrial Revolution, the railways and later the automobile. Each new technology brought both extensive benefits and disadvantages, and in each case they resulted in the demise of the earlier service provision. in each case people tried to stop the development, and found that they could not.
I cannot see much of a future for shops in the long term - let alone model shops. There may be a market for display facilities - places where you can inspect the items before you buy - but I suggest that most goods will end up being delivered direct from the manufacturer via sophisticated logistics services. This is happening already. Advice is readily available on the Net via forums - too much advice in many cases!
2 years ago by DodgyGeezer
My other hobby
Hi. Mi private pilots license also does not include night flying. But interesting is to consider when they define what is included. When having a certain number of instructed night flights you are entitled to fly in the vicinity of an airport. Vicinity of an airport German definition is that you have to be able to see the traffic in the pattern of an airport.
When I did my flight from San Jose, CA to Phoenix SkyHarbour, I was able to see the traffic being about 1.5 hours from the airport. The night definition is that the night begins 30 minutes after sunset. So was entitled to do this night approaches as you can see the traffic in the pattern, on a large airport like Sky Harbour, and in the Southwest of the USA from very far.
But when doing these landing operations at a large international airport, shortly before touch-down you are flying into a black hole. Due to this on my first landing in Sky Harbour, I made an awful 3-point-landing making the plane jump 2 or 3 times. Fortunately, I was aware of how to react properly when this happens.
The second special experience is when you are taxiing on the runway to get to its exit and report "runway vacated" in a small plane like a Cessna Cutlass the lights lose their structure. So I went to search for the yellow line on the left side of the runway until it curved into the exit. But this yellow line and the blue runway lights are hugely distant from each other so I had to focus my efforts to stay to the right of the blue lights but still being able to see the yellow line. Once I crossed the lines that mark that you are leaving the runway I could report back to the tower "runway vacated".
My second-night landing was when I did try to fly to an airport next to the "Grand Canyon". As the report of the airport said expect gain or lose 40 knots of speed on final I decided not to land and flew back To Phoenix.
What a wonderful experience. The landscape was already impressive on my flight to the Grand Canyon, but it was topped when I flew by night. First I was in contact with one center in charge while being above a certain altitude. Then this center passes you to one in charge below that altitude. Makes you feel like a professional pilot. Finally, this center did pass me to the tower of Sky Harbor. I was approaching from the north. Then, what controllers of large airports like they make you cross the airport midfield what ensures you stay away from the other traffic of the airport. You cannot imagine what a sight it is when you approach a large city like Phoenix by night. After he gave me its clear to land I was remembering my awful night landing earlier. When I did have the feeling that I was about to touch-down I did control the airplane so that all you felt on touch-down was the vibration of the wheels turning. A Geman friend of mine that was on the plane with me was so impressed that he said he would fly again with me at any time.
One other fact I want to share is the importance to really dominate the phraseology of radio communication and what Americans call to know the system. On my first approach by night to Phoenix, I did confuse the last VOR with the ILS beacon.
So when switching to what I thought to be the last VOR the needle got full to the right and stayed there. So I did a report I was not able to tune in the VOR and so tower did give me instructions for the further approach. When you fly in from the west you fly over a mountain full of antennas and the red lights on top of it. I felt very good being routed by the tower. Those of you familiar with night-flight and how to find the location of the airport know the rule of the black spot within the lights of the city is where the airport is. Well, Sky Harbor has the terminal building between its 2 runways and so Sky Harbor does not look like a black spot. So when the tower asked me if I had field in sight I did respond negative a couple of times until he reported that I was on the 45 for the runway. Then I finally saw the airport. Here is something that is the consequence of good radio training. My instructor always said to report negative until you are really enabled to say affirm. So Tower knows when you are really able to report affirm. Do not be shy, it is your and others life!
The second time on that approach was when tower gave me the instruction: 3-60 to the right until further advice! My teacher played the role of the tower and one of the things he said to teach us the right behavior was to stay silent and fly as instructed until tower contacts you again. I do confess I had never done 3-60s neither by night nor during the day! So I put the plane into a standard curve, kept it there, watched my altitude and speed. Being so familiar with this instruction from the tower I felt "at home" and this being relaxed was very useful!
2 years ago by Hellmut1956
Vintage Model Works 46'' RAF Crash Tender
Here's the history bit so pay attention...
Many years ago as a boy in the fifth year of my north London secondary school, circa 1971, our woodwork class was given the option to make something of our own choice.
Having mastered the majority of joints, wood turning, finishing techniques and the making of table lamps, stools and bookshelves etc. this seemed a good idea, so myself and a fellow classmate and model making chum asked if we could construct a model boat.
The teacher, on hearing that it was to be from a kit and not from scratch was a little surprised but agreed.
So my friend and I jointly invested about 20 quid in an Aerokits 34.5 inch RAF Crash Tender from Blunts' model shop in Mill Hill (long since gone like many others) and we set about construction during lesson time and sometimes at break times.
I recall we used "Cascamite" to glue it all together on the advice of the woodwork teacher because neither 'Scotch' glue nor PVA was suited to marine construction.
Good progress was made over the course of our last year at school but it was never fully completed, only requiring painting, running gear and detailing.
My friend decided that he needed to withdraw from the project as he was enrolling in a college away from home to study for a career in the merchant navy and I agreed to buy out his share and continue with the project.
And so it was that I carried on with the painting and installing the running gear which consisted of a 1.5 cc marine diesel engine, water pickup, prop shaft and rudder and a MacGregor radio system with a stick for steering and a single button for speed control.
The engine and radio came from Michael's Models in Finchley (also long gone) for £20 as my elder brother, who had started a Saturday job there, was able to get a staff discount for me.
The diesel engine was noisy and smelly and a pig to start with a leather thong around the flywheel and I decided to abandon this means of propulsion (I foolishly ran it for slightly too long 'dry' and melted the soldering around the brass water jacket!).
By now I had graduated from my part time job in Woolies to an engineering apprentice with Post Office Telephones and my new income of 20 quid per week could support my modelling and electronics hobbies after my contribution to the household for my keep.
So off to the model shop to buy a Taycol Supermarine electric motor, two 12v volt lead acid batteries and a suitable charger.
The diesel came out and was sold on Exchange & Mart and the mount and coupling re-made to accommodate the new Taycol motor.
What an improvement that was!
I can't remember now what speed controller or servo I used but whatever it was did the job, and it went like the clappers on Friary Park boating lake (also long since gone) even though the radio control system was a bit crude with the non-proportional steering and 'blip' throttle control.
The boating took a back seat when I acquired my driving licence and my first car (a rusty old Cortina Mk 1) and I also got involved in sound recording for radio.
I decided to sell the boat and bits for £60 through Exchange & Mart and bought an Akai 4000DS tape recorder and a 'Chilton' audio mixer, built a home studio and along with a good mate of mine started making radio commercials for the new commercial radio stations including London's Capital Radio.
We even won a 'Campaign' advertising award for one of our efforts! And so after several years as a 'phone engineer I moved into professional recording for A/V and broadcast and then into TV production.
Fast forward to today.
Semi-retired with grand kids and with more free time on my hands I still had an interest in model making so in Jan 2016 went to the Model Engineer exhibition at nearby 'Ally Pally'.
It was there that I saw an RAF crash tender just like the one I built all those years ago and got into conversation with the chap on the stand.
This re-ignited my model making interests and I researched the hobby and that model in particular.
4 years ago by robbob
Range Safety Launch?
The ‘Range Safety Launch’………….
I am now the owner of this boat. Wooden, good hull lines and hull paint work but needing to be finished. I am told that it looks like it started life as a kit, but has had considerable modification to at least the above deck layout and detail.
Advice is that it could be a rather simplified Range Safety Launch, but maybe I can use a little ‘artistic licence’ and just make it look interesting and capable.
There are two main reasons for sharing this project.
1. I will undoubtedly need guidance
2. Maybe some of the information will assist others
The hull is 44 inches ( 112cm ) long and 14 inches (36cm ) wide, it has two brushed MFA Torpedo 800 motors………. and weighs in currently at 15 lbs 4ozs (6.91 kgs).
It is large enough for me to be able to work on reasonably comfortably and apart from the cabin/upper deck areas to be ‘improved’, I aim to introduce sound, lighting, active radar sweep, search light, together with maybe a deck hoist and water /fire monitor appliance.
At my age it is difficult to tell the difference between wishful thinking and dementing……
However, the prime aim is to try and achieve at least some of this whilst having the boat usable during the current ‘season’.
There is so much knowledge, good will and help available on this site that even before I touched a thing, information came pouring in.
If anyone feels like making a contribution then please just ‘pile in’.
Have ordered some parts so next time should have something to show.
2 years ago by NPJ
HMS Campbeltown 1941, 1/96 scale
Keeping late hours again I see!
The Gift Horse, yes, I have seen it, but not for years. Not as good as one of my favourite films, The Cruel Sea, but still a good watch.
However, I see the full version is on YouTube, so being the cheapskate that I am you have encouraged me to give it another viewing.
Once again, thanks for the advice.
2 years ago by cormorant
BRAVE BORDERER - BRUSHLESS SUMMARY
Although have modeling experience, all my earlier vessels used brushed motors. This was my first brushless. The model is now running well, but thought, for the benefit of others considering this transition to summarize my experiences.
Must stress the performance of a brushless motor is incredible when compared to a similar sized brushed; for a vessel such as this they are almost obligatory. They are worth the trouble!
Had been advised that the best powertrain installation for a 37” Brave Borderer is either a single or twin screws, not three. This was
! Much heartache could have been avoided with a single screw installation. Unfortunately, that is not the correct layout for a scale builder.
Tried three major powertrain iterations, with several variations within each group. All motors are 28mm O/D :
1) The original installation used 3 x 4600kV inrunner motors with 30 A ESCs. Had bought these items used. The motors were too fast and had little torque. The ESCs also did not have adequate capacity. The result was erratic performance, a high fuse failure rate and the eventual failure of an ESC and motor
2) First upgrade was to 2 x 2400kV inrunner motors, using 50A capacity ESCs. The centre shaft was fitted with a brushed motor. This combination did work, although suffered greatly from motor “squeal” and “stutter”. Eventually a motor burnt out and failed. Picture #2
3) Upgrade two: retained the 50 A ESCs, with 2 x 2600 kV outrunner motors, again with the brushed inner shaft motor. Reprogrammed the ESCs to soft start parameters. Much better, performance and reliability can now be considered acceptable. The squeal and stutter are largely corrected it has justified the challenges of getting here. Picture #3
Have tried both 2 and 3S Li-Po batteries, suggest use the minimum voltage needed to achieve the desired performance. Higher voltages translate into faster response and performance, but with less control modulation. The model can be easily overpowered.
In summary, from my experience. For a marine application; chose low (under 2000kV) kV rating motors with an outrunner layout wherever possible (produce more torque than inrunners). Use ESCs with a ratings comfortably in excess of the motor ratings, fit fuses to supplement any ESC protections. Ensure the ESCs are programmed to “soft start” characteristics. Also, the obvious check of making sure shaft alignment is correct is even more important with the higher speed capability of brushless motors. in spite of the trails, cost and tribulations of getting here. Have enjoyed the challenge and the end result does justify the means.
Also, do not finally fit the deck until you are satisfied with the performance. Making the changes described with limited access would have been very difficult and frustrating.
2 years ago by RHBaker
Running Lights Completed!
She was a lot of fun assembling!
I had a good time with the build!
Donnieboy, Tell your friend to keep an eye on.
Gluing the deck to the main cabin.
Make sure it in it proper position.
Before gluing it down!
Or the ladder leading down from the main deck.
will come out off center!
That's my only advice!
PS. Maiden Voyage Soon!
2 years ago by figtree7nts
Sterling American Scout
You've really done a good job of the American Scout - very inspirational. What did you make the railings out of? I also have a Scout (which was given to me many, many years ago in a semi-complete state) that I'm currently restoring, but not sure how best to tackle these particular items. Yours look pretty good, so I'd value your advice. Best regards, Glyn
2 years ago by Glyn
Range Safety Launch?
Some Pictures for reference a RAF 43ft Range Safety Launch pennant '1640' and '1651' were built by 'Thornycroft' at Hampton in 1955.
Looks good, adding some detail and fittings will make it look great, bear in mind its a heavy boat, so you may wish to think about brushless motors and Lipo batteries, they will be a lot lighter and smaller than the 800 brushed, and lead acid batteries but you need to get advice before going down that road.
2 years ago by CB90
Windows, stoopid question.
Hi Guys, many thanks for the responses👍
So, in chronological order:-
Mike: I did chamfer but probably not enough 🤔
Yes I know about the lead in side of the die 😉 and I know the one step forward half step back technique 👍
I bought this tap n die set recently, made by Toolcraft so not cheap rubbish, maybe expensive rubbish?🤔 3mm is the smallest in this set and the holder (with ratchet action🤔) is big an' clunky and weighs 340gm so not the easiest tool to keep level.
Maybe good for a 1/2" Whitworth but not so super for a 3mm which is the smallest in this set. My 'Fine thread' set only goes to 2.5mm 🤔
As you can see from the pics the die is solid and there is only one locating screw so I can't open the die slightly as you say, and I remember from my car restoration days. Cutting oil I also have, mostly used on my two lathes, both Proxxon, one for the BIG stuff and one for the twiddly bits, pics 4 & 5.
Have just used the littl'n to drill a 4mm brass bolt screwed into a 35mm prop so I can reduce the thread to 3mm for the shaft, pic 6. IF only I can get a decent thread onto the shaft 😲
I'll put the shaft back into the littl'n and turn a taper on the end as you advise. My Milling machine is only a teeny weeny one with no possibility of mounting the die on it, pic 7. it's very useful for pre-drilling precision holes in in spray rails an' such to take the 0.5mm pins for fixing. Just used it to pre-drill the new keel for the cutter.
I have tail stocks for both lathes but no possibility to mount a die holder. Will investigate that pronto cos I'm gonna be faced with this snag again soon; 2 new shafts for my Graf Spee and 4 for my HMS Belfast.
Might also look for a different die set😲
In the meantime I'll try improving the chamfer👍
Martin; as you can see from above I do have lathes, and a good selection of silver steel rod, so many thanks for your kind offer but now you've pointed the way I'll have a go at making my own punch.
That piercing saw set looks good so I'll spring a few € for that 👍
You never know I might be able to use some shortened blades in my ancient Minicraft jig saw, for which you can no longer get spares 🤔
Your MB III looks great, and I can see why you were taken for that German musician - Doppelgange!
Thanks for all the advice Gents 👍👍 G'night. Doug 😎
PS Just put me name down at Frau Schmutterputz's,
but I'd more likely be found in the roses or perhaps petunias singing-
"I'm a lonely little petunia in the onion patch ...." 🤓😲
2 years ago by RNinMunich
Charging NiMhs, one for Doug?...
Evenin' Martin, Oh dear oh dear oh dear! 😲
There is some
above, but maybe not optimally expressed for use by a Luddite! Sorry guys but this might be a relatively long post to separate the wheat from the chaff, explode a few myths and resolve this little conundrum of Martin's!
One thing at a time!
NUMBER1. THE RADIO-
Dear Martin: Whatever possessed a self confessed Luddite and Scrooge like you to spring a large chunk of your hard earned pension on one of the most expensive and complex RC sets on the market in the first place????
I bought a Spektrum DX6 on impulse a few years ago while strolling around Conrad here in Munich. I've regretted it ever since. in retrospect it was way too expensive >600€, and complex. it is intended for the Fly Boys, as unfortunately most sets are these days.
I have still not successfully programmed it to do what I want to do, instead of what it is pre-programmed to do for helis and fixed wing aircraft. Not even with it's own Spektrum RX, let alone a 'foreign' RX like Orange.
So I have not yet risked it in a model. Definitely NOT my Catalina.
Since then I have bought a Turnigy I6. Which does the same as the Spektrum, works fine with my Orange RX with giro for the Catalina😉, cost only 69€ (is now available for around 33 quid😡) and within a few hours I had it programmed and tested to do all I want in my destroyer and Sea Scout.👍
In short: the Spektrum is way way way Overkill for your yacht or Fire Float or similar, where you will only ever want rudder and sail servo / winch or rudder and speed control. So flog the Spektrum and get a nice simple (and cheap😉) 2 or 4 channel set. I can't imagine you ever wanting to start building special effects into your models so 2 (max 4) channels is all you will probably ever need. Stick your Spektrum on eBay, maybe you'll get at least a 100 quid for it.
If you still want to go 2.4Gig get yourself a Turnigy i6 set with RX, 6 ch but cheap enough and I can help you directly with binding and programming from experience - I have a good English manual with no Chenglish gobbledygook.
If not and you still have a working 27 or 40MHz FM set (40 would be better) use that. Where you sail, all alone, who's going to bother you or be bothered?
BTW: Yes the Spektrum TX IS DSM2 and DSX compatible BUT you have to tell it what you want to use!!! Frankly I think trying that with a non-Spektrum RX is risky - especially first time out and for a novice Luddite😉
NUMBER 2. THE NiMh BATTERY-
Voltage is not a reliable indication of battery charge / remaining capacity.
After use a battery will recover slightly when at rest and the open terminal (off load) voltage will rise, often to the nominal voltage or slightly above.
This is NO indicator of remaining charge as when a load is applied the voltage will drop again rapidly, the higher the current drawn the faster the voltage drops. if it goes below 1.0V per cell the battery will be permanently damaged and never regain it's original capacity.
Haverlock is dead right about batteries losing charge when not used or regularly recharged. An NiMh batt loses charge at the rate of about 1% per day so after 3 months or so you can send it to the great recycling depot in the sky and buy a new one. Periodic cycling, discharge / charge prevents / minimises this - see care hints I posted above.
And yes, NiMh do have that irritating Memory effect🤔 albeit not so pronounced as with NiCads. Lipos apparently not, but I ain't seen any evidence yet - the jury is still out!
Sooo - ignore the 6.37V and run the batt through a discharge and full charge cycle. if your new NiMh batt has not yet been cycled and charged I would bet that it's present capacity is about 45%. See example below (and in attached pic) of one of my new 4.8V (nom) NiMh RX batts.
NUMBER 3. THE CAPACITY CHECKER -
"Glorified voltmeter" ?
Where did the 6.37V reading come from if not from your 'new toy'?
If it is showing volts it should also be showing capacity in %age.
If you received the wrong thing it's not the "bloody electrics" but the bloody nit who packed and sent it that's at fault. Before you send it back check the below😉
Send me a photo of the Checker you have and with your battery plugged in so I can see what's happening on the display. Otherwise we are all poking about in the dark (Are we back to Jules and his friend Sandy😉😲)
The link I sent you was for a checker exactly the same as mine except for the labelling! As you can see in my photo, properly connected it shows the terminal voltage and the remaining capacity (charge level) of the battery pack. Forget the Nixx (=2 Ni possibilities) display, that just means 'It ain't a LiXX' (3 Li- pissibolities).
Attached photo shows a brand new 4 cell NiMh RX pack 4.8V (Nominal) connected to one of my Checkers.
As you can see the voltage shown is 5.19V, according to the popular 'folklore' that would seem to indicate FULL charge.
Unfortunately not🤔 Capacity indication is 45% which is normal for brand new batteries in storage and transit. Explanation thereof - see above!
RE: " if it can do LiPos, why not the relatively simpler NiMhs?"
a) the LiPo pack has a different chemistry and construction which requires different input circuitry on the checker,
b) LiPos need balancing and are fitted with Balancer Plugs which connect to the multipin connectors on the checker. Each pin connects to one cell of the LiPo so that they can be monitored individually. LiPo chargers use this to balance the cells to within 0.01V (100mV) or less by adjusting the charge / discharge currents to each cell. The checkers use this to show you the individual cell voltages and charge states. A big difference, i.e.lower V and capacity, indicates cells with faults, e.g. higher internal resistance, or a discharged pack which needs charging and balancing.
NiMh packs don't usually have this facility to measure individual cells. They are thus connected to a separate input on the checker which can then only show total pack terminal voltage and capacity.
BTW: if you can get it passed 'THE Management' store your battery packs in the fridge😲 The 'coolth' slows down the rate of self discharge, which is a function of the battery internal resistance, which reduces slightly with reduced temperature😉
Enough for now, back to stripping my PTB for it's Midlife Refit!
Cheers, Doug 😎
PS Martin: Just saw your post about another RX. Why the hell not buy a Spektrum designed Rx guaranteed to work with their TX?
Or better still; flog the Spektrum and get a nice simple Turnigy set as above, also recommended by Ron, albeit the 9 ch version.
All this frigging about with 'claimed compatible' bits and pieces just wastes money and time, fogs the issue and don't prove nutt'n!
2 years ago by RNinMunich
Charging NiMhs, one for Doug?...
When should I discharge the batteries? Currently as you could see from above emails, they have a pretty full charge. I need to bind the Rx and see that the sail winch works. After that I probably wouldn't need them for a while, so would that be a good time to discharge them? Does the imax thingy stop discharging when it should automatically? Should I then leave them while and recharge a la Doug's advice, which seems to make very good sense with a new pack.?
Cheers for the advice on the iMax. I'll let you all know how the binding/servo testing goes.
2 years ago by Westquay
LED Tug Mast Navigation Lights
Good morning, guys. I got the pilot house roof off of my boat by using bits of advice from both of you. I looked closely at the seam where the roof attaches & sure enough found a very fine gap.
Doug: I trimmed my fingernails just yesterday so my built-in scraper/screwdriver/seam separator, i.e. thumbnail, is too short to be of use for a while.
Ed: Following your lead I carefully worked an ultra-thin blade into the seam & after about 30 seconds I had the roof off without damaging a thing. Excellent!
I’m impressed at how well the roof presses in place. Only the paint had “glued” the roof on. Looking at the photo you can clearly see the ceiling bulb (white wires), which is the same kind used for HO scale & larger locomotive headlights, among other things. The blue wires near my thumb (notice the neatly-trimmed thumbnail) run up to the search light on the roof. You can also see the black & red & black & green wires running to the port & starboard side lights. I think I’ll add a multi-pin connector as part of my overall upgrade plan for the tug so that I can completely remove the roof if I want to without risking damage to those fine wires.
Thanks again to both of you for your helpful guidance. You’re both awesome!
2 years ago by PittsfieldPete
I went along to Bury Metro Marine Modelling Society and got some
from a chap called Peter (may not be the same one...) Thank you.
The upshot is I'll be swapping the dodgy App-driven Tx/Rx for a proper one.
And why did I buy an unbuilt trawler model? Well the 2ch radio control will come in handy as a test setup anyway!
2 years ago by malcolmstroud
Hi all sorry about the spanner I don't intent the same set for the other boat but I do want to progress later and my son as asked for the schenllboot after I get it finished so I will be buying another set anyway . Sorry for the spanner hope it did not hurt to much, still interested in all that you have to say , good work on the light flasher unit I have taken the url and it will be included in the D boat ,thanks to all for the advice all is much help. I don't mind about any hijacking (all is learning)
2 years ago by teejay
1960S Taycol electric motor
Hi All. all
for the normal brushed motors in cans with carbon brushes. But the Taycol is a totally different animal! it has no carbon brushes. They are simply stamped thin copper or phosphor bronze sheet.
Contrary to carbon brushes they need OILING to reduce the wear and sparking!
Attached are some pics from my Taycol Target renovation and modification to graphically illustrate the point. Pic one 'Before', pic 2 the new phosphor bronze brushes I made.
BTW: don't EVER put oil on your carbon brushes! Try it if you're curious, but then buy a new motor or try to find some replacement brushes 😉
If you run the Taycols dry they wear the brushes through until they have a hole in the middle and spark like crazy Pic 1. You can put what capacitors you like on, you'll still get interference especially at 27MHz.
Pic 3 shows the effect this has on the commutator. Pic 4 shows the renovated commutator, there was more 'meat' left on it than I expected😊
Pic 2 shows the new brushes I made from phosphor bronze sheet.
The spark energy density spectrum peaks in the HF band (e.g. 27MHz!) and falls off rapidly in the VHF band (30MHz upwards) to virtually nothing in the UHF and Gigahertz bands. That (and the frequency hopping process the 2.4Gig sets use) is why they don't suffer such interference.
BTW: as a matter of probably no interest 😉 most sets only use 16 or 32 of the 85 frequencies available in the band! 😲
The capacitor values given above are unusual and will only work with a 'canned' motor, which the Taycol ain't! The norm for a standard canned motor with carbon brushes would be 0.1µF across the terminals and 0.047µF from each terminal to the can, which with a Taycol you ain't got!
Earthing to the prop shaft is also a problem. Where do you connect the wire? There's no 'can'. Frame? That's paxolin! try soldering to laminated iron core if you want. Good luck. Won't achieve much even if you manage it🤔
Once again I ask which Taycol you have, as the construction varies and hence the suppression methods / connections.
Imperative is the condition of the brushes and commutator to minimise the intensity of the spark generation in the first place!
Also important is how you are controlling the speed: also 'Period' with a Bob's Board or resistor coil and servo driven wiper??
These can also be spark sources😡 Never mind wasting precious battery power as heat😲
If you want to convert to using an ESC with proportional forwards and reverse, which Taycol field motors can not do without reversing the polarity of EITHER the field coil or the rotor coil but not both, I can show you how.
I did it with Dad's old Taycol Target, see my Build Blog 'Sea Scout Jessica'. Pic 5 shows my Taycol target dismantled, before the renovation.
Pics 6 & 7 the reassembled motor after renovation.
Pic 8 shows the motor voltage across the terminals before the conversion, complete with gigantic sparks of amplitude 100% of supply voltage.
Pics 9 & 10 show the waveform on the terminals of the modified motor at slow and fast speeds, hence different pulse width; broad pulse more speed, narrow less speed.
BUT: virtually NO SPARKS😊 and no capacitors😊
Trick is in the bridge rectifier used to connect the motor to a standard brushed ESC. The diodes in the rectifier suppress the sparks😊
Pic 11 shows the wiring 'lash-up' I made to test the motor before mods. Pic 12 the PSU used for the tests. ESC is a 30A Graupner Navy.
Instead of TX and RX I used a simple servo tester to drive the ESC.
Scope used speaks for itself! As expected speed control was possible but no reverse.
Media File 1 Vid shows the renovated motor running but unmodified, complete with sparks😡 Sorry Dave_M, I can't upload the ozone smell🤔
Media File 2 shows the scope display of the unmodified motor test, complete with the sparks that cause the kind of interference you are suffering from.
Wanted to add the final vid showing the clean waveform after the mods but it's too big for the site: 30MB max and the vid is 47MB 😭
Penultimate pic shows the circuit used to connect to a standard ESC (Brushed!) for full remote control proportional forward and reverse.
Final pic shows the test set up for the fully modified motor. Note 4 connections: 2 to field coil, 2 to brushes (i.e. rotor coil) as per circuit diagram of the interface board.
Have fun, cheers Doug 😎
3 years ago by RNinMunich
THE VOSPER 46'' CRASH TENDER KIT BY VINTAGE MODEL WORKS
Welcome to the forum.
I put a single motor, shaft and rudder in my fireboat so I don't have any first hand experience of a twin drive system but I would think that the shafts should exit the hull at the same points as the single shaft but equidistant from the keel. Similarly the rudders should be directly behind each prop.
There are members on this site that have done a twin drive system on the 46" model that can offer more informed guidance, hopefully they will chip in with some
Over to you chaps !
Please consider doing a build blog to document your progress.
Good luck with the build.
3 years ago by robbob
Thanks for yet more
, Dave M . I will try 20-25 amp fuses to start with. As it happens, there is the original ic water cooling system still in the hull, kept for realism but I could easily make it functional.
3 years ago by wunwinglo
Many thanks for the good sound advice.
3 years ago by Skydive130
new brighton model boat lake
Doug .Re which one (other tenor/s ) they were few and far between and came and went . I was always welcomed to any opera company or choir I went to. Hence ( THE ) ONE TENOR The Marine lake is like Rhyl's. Useable as long as no other users. Wadeable but watch out for debris and broken glass etc. Don't go in barefoot. in fact that is
on any water. People seem to delight in throwing rubbish into any stretch of water. idiots.👍
3 years ago by onetenor
Thanks again Zdenek, and by all means, I would be very pleased to accept any information that you are able to.
Being born and raised in a fishing community on the East Coast of Canada, the seawater is in my blood and there is just something about the clean lines of ARTUR that appeals to me. This looks like a complicated project for me, and one which I must be prepared to work slowly and carefully on and hope that I am not undertaking a project that is too ambituous for me. I really want to do a good job.
I have not noticed any scale on the drawings so that I can tell my printer company how large to make them. Do you have any advice for me on having the drawings printed?
3 years ago by hecrowell
Impatient but hit away with it!
mark! I’ve had laquer reactions before and the mess it makes is horrendous! I shall let it harden until tomorrow night before doing anything else to it. in the meantime I can get on with making 30 brass stanchions!
3 years ago by Skydive130
Electrics are in and working!
mark, just tried it and will only be a few minutes to mod it to fit flat. Will do tomorrow
3 years ago by Skydive130
Blackpool Model Boat Show
I went Saturday and found good attendance from the public, Traders and Clubs. Lighting was as good as any other show I have attended and I always enjoy talking to both clubs and traders to find out about models or new products. Every show I attend is a whole new experience and as a scratch builder it gives me an opportunity to find and discuss new parts/products and techniques. With the demise of many local model shops this is now one of the few opportunities for such advice and help. We all have expectations but really its up to us what we make of the show. I agree with Flack we either support the events or there won't be any.
3 years ago by Dave M
FLYSKY FS-I6S TRANSMITTER
Just seen your post re the manual. I assume this is for the German badged offering. The binding instructions don't always work with some rx. My friend has a FlySky FS-16 and bought two new rx from Bangood and whilst one worked the other didn't. There is a U-tube video that shows how and uses the bind plug on a different set of rx pins. This worked with the rx that had previously not bound.
As Canabus says this set is rebadged for several retailers so I am not surprised there are minor differences that can cause confusion.
My advice is to leave well alone if the set is bound and working.
The advice I gave about upgrading related to the FS-16S and may not be necessary for the FS-16 which you have.
3 years ago by Dave M
Hobby Engine Richardson Upgrade
Good morning folks.
Well a few (3)decisions taken on advice:-
Futaba Tranny 6 channel and receiver
Larger battery pack, going with NiMh rather than Lipo
That gives me something to do in the bottom of the boat when I take the lid off....................
All this started with tidying up the Smaragd sail boat, so seem to have lost track a bit. However, Tug Boat much easier to manage on the bench and if I have you chaps helping over my shoulder, I am happy!
Next two questions to those using/used such boats.
What about having independent motor drives to improve maneuverability ?
Increase size of rudders?
I must now go and spend some money!
Regards to all.
3 years ago by NPJ
Crash Tender Shaft Tube Poistion
Good to see your are progressing.
It's good to see that Paul has joined in the discussion and offered help.👍 He has a superb model at the larger scale and has been an avid supporter of Fireboats and the site since its inception.
With this small model it is important to keep the weight to a minimum and whilst sealing holes with glue and filler is OK, I would go easy with soaking the wood in epoxy, it's heavy. Far better to cover with a sheet of tissue/glass cloth and apply a thin coat spread with a plastic (credit Card size) spatula to work well into the covering.
It would be good to see a few pics of your whole model. Say two side views, a top view and a stern view. if you can weigh that would also be useful.
Might help when you need further advice on the build
3 years ago by Dave M
new brighton model boat lake
I used to sail there in the 1970s and it is a good site. As previously mentioned there are times when the wildlife and Public can be a problem but the setting right on the promenade is beautiful and you get lots of fresh sea air.
There is also another similar sized lake outside Hoylake Lifeboat station and West Kirby have access to the lake in the park so the area is well served for model boaters.
All have resident clubs so plenty of helpful and friendly advice.
3 years ago by Dave M
Crash Tender Shaft Tube Poistion
on all points there Doug the Boss likes the single candle lit dinner as it would be cheaper than buying both clever lady.
My boat is the 34 inch version so the smaller of the two Crash Tender versions but like the suggestion of changing battery as when I actually get to sailing it wouldn't want wet feet straight away😜
3 years ago by neilmc
Hi there, I still can't upload photos or reply to PM's.
Hi Colin and Doug
I have been looking on Google to see if there is any help with upgrading from your phones Android 6.
I could not find a definitive answer but it does appear that the process may require a PC and some good computer skills and knowledge.
If the phone won't update Android via the settings and you have a good connection and phone/internet credit, then it may be above your skillset, and mine!.
As your phone freezes when opening photos I do wonder how much memory you have on the phone?
Doug is correct when he says modern smartphones have made life difficult for many users.
If you bought this locally I would take it back and ask for their advice. My local market has a stall where they perform all kinds of miracles on mobile phones and if I get stuck I usually seek their help.
3 years ago by Dave M
Welcome to the group, look in the club section for your nearest. Nice boat to start you on the road (water) to good boating. Please post pictures if you can. And don't be scared to ask for help. We have members who are very willing to give advice.
3 years ago by Colin H
Secure the hatches and raise the flags !
Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your good choice of model 👍.
I bought all of the brass pins I used from a UK based eBay seller
I can't imagine that something similar would not be available in Oz, try a good joinery or cabinet makers supply outlet.
I mostly used the 15mm size and used, quite surprisingly, a total of around 500 😱.
These pins have a tapered head rather than a flat one so that they can be punched flush, or just below the surface of the wood very easily.
This is important when pinning the side and bottom skins so that the pin hole can be filled and sanded to give a very smooth surface for finishing.
Also, when pinning the thin wood strips always pre-drill the wood to stop the wood from splitting.
I'm not sure if CMB supply this type but Javro, who replied earlier, may be able to confirm this.
Good luck with the build and please do think about posting a build blog on this site and ask as many questions as you need to.
As I discovered, the help and advice you will get will be invaluable.
3 years ago by robbob
Secure the hatches and raise the flags !
I will certainly video the maiden voyage, I'm just waiting for the lake conditions to improve.
Thanks for the
BTW. I like your 'noisy fireboat', sounds really good, those transducers are very effective 👍
3 years ago by robbob
Servos & motor having a wobbly
Thanks Dave, that's
, I'll try a different servo. I'm hoping it's not this as there isn't much space for a bigger one, but I guess a more expensive one may not cause the same probs?😜
3 years ago by EricMB
I am new to model boat construction ,my first gallant attempt is a static tug (I will attempt to post pictures ) for my next project I thought what ever it is should move , can anyone recommend a good book on basic radio control , there is loads of advice in the forums but I would rather sit and read ,take notes and scribble on the pages ,I know this may sound old fashioned ,but hey .
3 years ago by marky
Worcester Model Boat Club Open Day
I had a real good time and sailed my dads old boat for the first time, which was its first trip on water for 25 years. Thanks to the WMBC Members for making me feel welcome and for the advice, will now send in my membership as they are a great bunch with no pretensions. Thanks Colin.
3 years ago by Colin H
some next words yet..
Let me quote some comments from Kimosuby here too..
Still, with out resort to complicated calculations etc most model bargees decide to add a keel. Note; not a fin as this implies a thin item, but a good area of keel. its position is most usual, on a 1/24 scale barge, with it’s leading edge 3 inches behind the front edge of the mast. it’s purpose is to inhibit leeway, which on such a small flat bottomed hull, is quite large.
Visual examination of the barge profile (all scales) shows that this is also the position that the leeboards occupy when lowered, so if it was a good position for the full size barge builders, then it’s probably good for us modellers too.
I asked Ivor Bittle too, and he gave me the same advice.
he wrote in short ... The location of the CLR should be located approximately on the vertical axis at a location corresponding to the center of the wetted surface of the leeboard located downward approximately at an angle of 45 °- 60°
.. if something looks good, then it's good ...
Before all --as I can see .. you have to use rule of thumb .. 😊
The Universe in which we live is supremely untrustworthy (Douglas Adams)
3 years ago by tomarack
Does anyone here sail at Stanborough Lake in Welwyn Garden City?
I'm looking for somewhere for the maiden voyage and regular sailing of my 46" Crash Tender when it's finally finished.
I'd like to know what the access and parking is like and whether it's a good place to run a boat like mine.
Also, what's the local model club like?
All advice and suggestions gratefully received.
3 years ago by robbob
Aeronaut Pilot Boat
Some really good posts here, i'm also on the brink of purchasing the Pilot boat.....never built one before but if keep to the advice and tips given then I should be ok.....I hope --- Steve did you have a successful launch when you sailed it for the first time?
3 years ago by NickW
Slowly does it.
I would say you've achieved your main objective magnificently 👍 The hull is looking really good.
But the shaft angle is maybe 3 times the optimum, based on looking at my Aerokits Sea Scout layout and Sonar's advice!
Looks like there is plenty of scope in the hull to mount the motor further forward and much deeper and still be able to fit a pretty large prop. But bigger isn't always better!
Not really my expertise but would guess with 50mm you risk overloading the motor!? I'm sure the experts here can advise you better on that than I.
You may also find the boat more responsive to the rudder if the prop thrust is directed at the rudder instead of more below it as it seems to be now?
Cheers Doug 😎
3 years ago by RNinMunich
And now it is ESC time
Good evening Martin, Early 1990 just after the 'Wende' I was at a shipyard in Wolgast on the Baltic coast, opposite the island Usedom. The hotel on Usedom was superb, newly renovated to western 4* 😉 Woke up to sunrise over the Baltic. 👍
But when we drove into Wolgast to visit the yard the roads were all gone! Yep, we drove round a corner and CRASH we dropped about 2 feet cos all the road and subsurface had been dug out ready for new roads sometime (Irgendwann!🤔) No signs, no warning! Saw some of the 'concrete boxes' at Peenemunde etc. Awsome!
Strangely, the reason for the visit was a class of 8 500ton Patrol Boats for Brazil! I got the COMMS contract! 😊 wasn't invited to anybodies Dacha though 🤔
Many thanks for your advice and prompting, although I'm not a great woodworker and yacht lover like you I can appreciate the work that goes in and the beauty that comes out. in many ways we seem to be like minded. Cheers, your friendly neighbourhood MONSTER 😎
3 years ago by RNinMunich
The radio aerial & handrails.
Thanks for your encouragement, all the detail work does seem to take a long time to do and I'm learning new skills all the time.
It will never be a masterpiece but I will certainly be something that I'll be very proud to show off... not sure where though.
My day off today so I may pay a visit to Verulamium Park in St. Albans and check out the small boating lake there.
Anyone got any
or tips on parking and access to the lake and what the boating is like there?.
Here's a recent pic so you can see the progress so far.
4 years ago by robbob
The website has been of great interest and useful to me as a starting point for modeling.
Been modeling for just a short while and have received some
Not the sort of website that is so over busy as you can follow posts and blogs at a slow and informative pace.
All the members are friendly and helpful.
A great all round forum for modeling.
4 years ago by none
Good Morning Dave,
Thank You, I looked and found what I need!👍
Great advice, I won't make the angel myself.
am going to look into purchasing ready made angles.
As for the chisel I'm thinking 1/4", What do you think?
4 years ago by figtree7nts
I hope so Dave.
I ordered the motors and esc's from Hobbyking Tuesday PM and the arrived this morning 36 hours from order to receipt, very good.
Now as this my first dabblings with brushless motors and esc's I have a few problems, which I hope somebody may be able to help me with, I bought a hobbyking esc programming card, there are no instructions with it although it seems a quite straightforward operation to set the required values.
Part of this is working out what each item is
1) Running mode. Ok choice of three, forward/brake: forward/ brake/reverse: Forward reverse. (easy enough)
2) Fixed area accelerator: 6%:9%:or 12% (??🤓)
3)Battery Low Voltage Protection. 6 settings from non protection to 3.4v (probably set at no protection as using NiMh)
4)Start Mode (punch): 9 levels, which one?
5)Reverse Force: 4 levels 25-100% (ok self explanatory)
6)Timing Set: 5/10/15/20/25/30/automatic ( which one )
Bearing in mind what the model is (not a competition racer);what I require of it is forward/reverse; port and starboard. I do not require it to take off like a scalded cat with just the props and rudders in the water. Acceleration from stop to max in about 4-5 seconds.
I had about a 50 year gap in model boat making until about five years ago the last one i made was when I was 15, although in the years in between I did get to play with the real things when I was in the RAF. So if you do have any advice remember you are telling a person on the wrong side of 69😋, and thanks in advance
4 years ago by colindavies
raf crash tender
Hi Dave, good to hear from you (sorry to hijack thread). 4 footer came out two years ago, Huntsman once in 2016, its over 3 years since the 3 footer got wet! Orca once in 2016. I did build the PCF which I really liked, but it went immediately as too many people messaged saying they wanted it, so it funded some RC plane gear, which I am really into now. I sold a load of bits and bobs at the Blackpool show a few months ago, didn't renew with St Helens in 2015, or 2016, and wont this year.
However.... Robs excellent blog has got me interested again, and Stephen kindly did a bespoke 3 d printing project on something rc related, info and pics to follow when its finished!
Back on track...
George, I'm going to advise only things I have done, or used, I'm not one to say do this, or that, but actually I have not done it myself. No doubt others will disagree, but this is my opinion only.
Best performance in terms of speed is brushless, and lipo. Forget fear of fire and explosions, this only happens with abuse, and they are the common use with rc planes, helicopters, cars, its only boats that are really stuck in the dark ages with technology that have this big fear of brushless systems and lipos! However, to get initially set up, they do take more understanding and initial cash outlay, as you need a specific charger for one, and you do need to understand what you are doing.
Brushless motors will unlease the power far more than brushed, and are usually lighter.
This motor is an example, there are much cheaper ones with similar specs, but I have used this motor in various applications, the most similar to your boat being my large Huntsman, with this motor on 6 cells lipo I achieved 25mph, but speed might not be what you want. So if you have the fast engine in your car, say a v12 Ferrari, if you run it on cheap fuel, it wont perform, same here, nicads and nimhs batteries are easy to maintain, you can drain them dead flat, but will give cheap fuel performance, like a bath tap trickling when the shower is on at the same time, and as they are dying technology, are expensive for what they are. Lipo is like turning up both bath taps and the force floods out, but now the tank will empty quicker, so you have less run time 😊
If brushless, its a specific speed controller,
and you pay extra for reversing (other rc disciplines don't need reverse) and a marine esc might need to be water cooled, however, decent brushed motor speed controllers are not exactly cheap, so now you know why budget is important to give advice, you could be spending £100 here just to get up and running.
Look at my 4 foot fireboat build blog, as its twin screw (personally a boat this size is better twin screw) you can get by with cheaper motors, mine where £30 the pair, I use lipo for all my boats, so I have the batteries, and are familiar with using them, the speed controllers where about £40 the pair, and if I was buying batts then probably another £40, so it all adds up!
Single screw, less batteries. You could power with nimhs, and it might be acceptable ,performance for you.
If your location is Ellesmere Port, have a Sunday morning drive to Hoylake, then New Brighton, and maybe take in St Helens Liverpool, and Runcorn, see boats in action, see what sort of performance suits you, and rethink the budget, what do you want to spend? Then you need the transmitter and receiver (if you don't already have these) the fittings (see Robs build blog) a prop shaft, and a suitable propeller
I am North Wirral, you are more than welcome to come and have a chat and see some boats, but unfortunately I'm deep into another rc project for the next few weeks, once that is done I can share some time, if you want! Don't worry, I'm not all about speed, I can do brushed motors and nimhs and get a result,
Any questions, just ask, Paul
PS... Looks like a nice clean boat you have there😉