Forum

Help identify

Hi Sid, If the number is correct she's based on an RAF 60 foot General Service Pinnace. http://www.rafboats.co.uk/pin60gsmk2spec.html But the hull shape doesn't fit! See attached pics of number 1261, closest I could find to 1258 but from the same batch. Nearest I could find that fits the hull and superstructure shape of the model at the bow is the 65ft Walton HSL ( Launch). http://rafboats.co.uk/hslw65.html See pics attached pics of #2642. She was a 'One Off' which never went into production. Hope this helps, or does it just add to the confusion!?🤔 Cheers, Doug 😎

5 years ago by RNinMunich

Forum

Trying to trace a boat

A little while ago I saw, possibly at a show, one of those , go fast things. If memory serves, it was about 60cms long and was available in several different colourways and that fact, I think, is the most memorable thing about it and possibly the only way I'll identify it. I think it was a bare hull and deckhouse moulding. It's not for me! I want one for a present for someone who saw it with me and liked it. She can't remember the name either. I know that's precious little to go on, but if anyone has any ideas, I'd be most grateful.

5 years ago by Nerys

Response

Holy SMOKE !! Video, Tin Can Madness

BTW: I grew up with valves (or bottles as we Brits also call 'em) as well. I still have a box of several vintage 'bottles' in the cellar, many of them new still in the original boxes. if you ever run out of triodes, pentodes or tetrodes give me a buzz! Think I still have some pristine EL80s - collectors items these days - lots of Oomph 😁 My next non-model boat electronic project is a pair of digital clocks in 'Art Deco' cases, using bottle decade counters. The forerunners of the fluorescent tubes and then the LED clocks, but much more fun😉. About forty years ago I spent a year or so servicing and calibrating the radiation monitors around UK nuke power plants using these decade counters. One cosmic radiation click = one jump in the base counter and so on. Never ever saw anything above the basic cosmic radiation background count which is always there. A remnant of the 'Big Bang'. 😲 Funny where an interest in electronics and radio can getcha 😁 Look forward to your chimney experiment report👍 My destroyer has two funnels but I found that the little railway smokers were not man enough to feed two funnels via a branched tube. But two working in parallel off the one RC channel did the trick. Regarding the chimney effect; Works well at rest or at low speeds, but I also found that instead of a fan some traditional air vent scoops mounted forward of the smoker augmented the effect well at higher speeds. And my long thin destroyer with 2 x 540s on 12V made a lot of 'speed boats' look silly 😁 Have fun, ciao, Doug 😎

5 years ago by RNinMunich

Forum

All hooked up, nowt happens...

Hi Steve, I have the same problem with the ESCs in my HSL. They are cheap Chinese car models and can be a bit tricky to get into reverse quickly. I have found that either waiting a few seconds in neutral before trying reverse, or going to neutral and flicking the throttle forward a few clicks and back to neutral quickly (in .5 sec) usually sorts it. I think it may be that the motor stops somewhere that the cheaper ESCs can't detect (bit like an old car starter that hits the bald spot on the ring gear and you have to jog it a bit) so you have to move it slightly for it to 'see' it (maybe the capacitors also). Brushed ESCs don't have that problem as the brushes are in constant contact, rather than relying on correct positioning in Brushless motors. You will also find that some Chinese motors are not timed/wound correctly, and you can feel weak or 'floaty' spots between certain magnets which may also cause a problem. Perhaps trying a higher or lower ESC timing by 1 step either way might help if you have that capability. if it works by just flicking the throttle method, you can just slow down as you come in and take you time finding reverse in a scale like manner (remember the PT109 movie where they went through the shed on the wharf) You can also try swapping the other pairs of wires on the motor (same direction but different pairs). if you are still not happy then it might be time as Doug said, for a better ESC with instructions. Get one which has all the programing features, (fwd, rev , timing, auto batt detection (lipos or NmH etc) starting mode- ie soft,hard, brake etc) this will give you plenty of options for adjustment. Doesn't have to be a marine one, a good known brand car/buggy one will do and if you have any heat problems you can always put a mini fan on it. Water cooled marine ESCs are really only for high amp setups. My 36"HSL has 2x 30A car ESCs running 2x 28/45 2000kv water cooled motors and ESCs never get even warm. Pictured are the ESCs I am using from HK which have an output plug for a fan if needs be. The 3rd pic is the brushless ESC types (EBay, AliExpress) I am using, which have no problems with reverse transition (see vid section re Thornycroft MTB maneuvering) also the HSL vids to give you an idea of how these brushless ESCs perform even with the minor reversing problem. Hope you get it sorted.

5 years ago by jbkiwi

Response

HMS BRAVE BORDERER

Thanks for your suggestions. Once we get back on the water in the Spring will investigate further. My last run in the fall indicated that the performance was now satisfactory and predictable. Cannot wait to try again and confirm. This is my first foray into a vessel and it gives plenty of food for thought as even minor adjustments can make a big impact

5 years ago by Rowen

Forum

Are these any good

I buy my small drill bits from https://www.microscrews-shop.nl/ Excellent quality. I use them in steel and stainless as well as aluminium. For brass I dull them slightly and keep in separate box. Are you drilling tool steel (aka silver steel) or Steel? Tool steel is no problem for the drills I buy above. His hardware is also of excellent quality. (I don't pay the VAT because in Canada, which offsets the shipping cost.)

5 years ago by gerritv

Blog

Proboat Sonicwake

Three weeks ago I got a Proboat Sonicwake deep V fast electric. This appears to be a replacement for their previous model Vorocity. Very interesting self righting method with a water tank on the port side, slots in the deck and a large exit point at the stern. Idea is that if it capsizes, water will enter through the slots and as it draws the boat under, the air trapped in the hull will self right it. If the boat is stationary in the water, it will list to port due to water entering through the stern outlet and when power is applied it will empty out. Bit scary to watch at first as I thought the boat was on its way to Davy Jones. I use waterproof marine clear tape to seal around the hatch ever time I use it. The quality of the hull raises a few concerns. This relates to its ABS construction as the vast majority of similar boats at that price are made of fibreglass which is much more rigid and would be more suitable for the s. Makers claim it does 50 MPH plus on 6S lipos. The electrics however are excellent with the exception of the external quality of the Horizon Hobby STX2 TX which looks a bit "toyish". For myself, this is not relevant as I replace all my wheel TXs with the "stick type" and I found that the Futaba T2HR fulfils all requirements and worked well when I sailed the boat. I have not yet changed the stock prop for an Octura one, the latter works great on my Blackjack 29 with a noticeable increase in performance. The motor is a Dynamite Marine W.C brushless 1900 KV with a 120 amp W.C ESC . 😁😋 Boaty.

6 years ago by boaty

Blog

HMS BRAVE BORDERER

Finally the new brass propellers arrived, delayed about a month in one of Canada's regular postal disruptions. After minor modifications to the boss profile (the brass are more streamlined and thus longer than nylon) to give clearance with the rudder leading edges, they were easily installed. Could now refit the electrical equipment previously removed to get access to the shaft couplings. Inevitably took the opportunity to make “improvements”, so then could not get anything to work! After much frustration determined the problem was not from my improvements, but from the cheap and nasty slide switches provided with ESCs. These must have got damp during the test runs and corroded internally. Suggest when using these switches they be consigned to the garbage and replaced with proper toggle ones. Had decided to use the centre brushed motor/propeller for manoeuvring and low speed operation and then the outer brushless for . Brushless ESCs do not modulate smoothly and motor operation is erratic. This was particularly evident when going from forward to reverse and vice versa. Using a lever control Tx, it was also easy to inadvertently operate the brushless control along with the brushed making the model response unpredictable. After some thinking, decided to insert a small relay into each of the white signal wires for the brushless motor ESCs. These relays would be controlled by a RC switch operated by another channel on the Rx. Hoping this way the brushless motors could be switched on and off whenever desired. The two relays would retain the ESCs as separate circuits and avoid any interference between them. The idea worked, can now operate the brushed motor confidently knowing the brushless will not be inadvertently triggered. This means low speed manoeuvers can be gently undertaken using the modulation and control ability of the brushless motors and, by selecting the auxiliary control, can add the capability of the brushless. Am also hoping that when the Li-Pos trigger the low voltage cut-outs in the ESCs, this will retain a “get-home” facility on the brushed motor as that ESC operates independently. Much to look forward to when next on the water.

6 years ago by Rowen

Response

BRAVE BORDERER - BRUSHLESS SUMMARY

The only thing you might have to watch out for is back feed from the pump out the aux tube (when moving) if you don't set up the y joints (must be y not T ) to create a venturi effect from the pump side. Doesn't matter standing still but at speed a T junction might reduce the flow as the flows will be fighting each other slightly. The beauty of the twin system is that if you are running a lot at you could turn the pump off to save power. The best place to position water intakes is I have found is directly behind the prop (I usually just squash the brass tube slightly, fair it, cut it off at 45 deg and set it to just sit in the prop wash). At lower speeds especially, the prop will help to push water into the tubes rather than just relying on speed alone. Never had a problem with pickups interfering with rudder effectiveness as long as you fair the pickups nicely

6 years ago by jbkiwi

Forum

Videos

H Martin, sorry it took longer than expected got bogged down in other things🤔 Sooo! Scouring the docs I could find (see attached PDF files) I was surprised not to find the usual table of Number of photos or video length vs memory available! Anyway two significant statements I did find- 1) "Movie length - up to 29 minutes" When I see 'up to' I read that as with the lowest resolution, in this case 640*480 pixels. Which you can forget; tha's like a 20+ year old PC and worse than the old UHF 605 line TV pictures.🤔 2) "Movie resolution -1280x720/ 30fps (HD). Now that's more like it😊 BUT: in the manual I then found- "The option FHD and HD only available when a Micro SDHC class 4 or higher speed class card is inserted." Soooo! get yourself a 32GB (not sure if a 64GB card will work!) memory card SDHC class 4 and awaaaay you go 👍 BTW the internal memory is only 64MB so you can forget that for video. Seems only to be used for storing user settings (made in the camera menu) and a few photos. I recommend using only the memory card for photos and above all videos. Happy shooting Mr Director, Cheers Doug 😎 BTW: '720p' just means 720 pixels (Picture cells) vertically, using Progressive scan, as opposed to interlaced. Thought you might like to know that 😁😁

6 years ago by RNinMunich

Forum

Brushless motors (again)

depending upon the type of motor cooling it can be a problem. Most brushless motors are out runners so the case rotates! in runners are usually for higher speed applications (or driving a gearbox). if you have an idea as to the size of IC engine the boat was intended to have then this list may be a help .049 or .051 = 100 watts 0.10 = 200 watts 0.15 = 300 watts 0.25 = 500 watts 0.32 = 640 watts 0.40 = 800 watts 0.45 = 900 watts 0.51 = 1020 watts 0.61 = 1220 watts 0.75 = 1500 watts 0.91 = 1820 watts Since Watts are Volts * Amps ( I know this is not accurate for a reactive load like an electric motor but its a rule of thumb) This gives you a ball park next point is the KV ( revs per volt) of a motor. The higher the KV the smaller the prop. Finally buy a Watt meter they are not expensive and give you a chance to " fine tune" a setup. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FT08-RC-150A-Hight-Precision-Watt-Meter-and-Power-Analyzer-w-Backlight-LCD-U3F1/223101148808?epid=23023179441&hash=item33f1dd5e88:g:LYAAAOSwV3pba1JA:rk:11:pf:0 Car ESCs ( usually) have a reverse function while the airplane versions do not. They are generally cheaper than boat specific ESCs.

6 years ago by Haverlock

Forum

34'' RAF Crash Tender Windows

Correct Colin, 👍 BRITISH POWERBOAT COMPANY 64ft LAUNCH TYPE 1. 1936 - 1947. http://www.rafboats.co.uk/gallery/102/ Cheers, Doug 😎

6 years ago by RNinMunich

Forum

Darby One Design hydro...

Dave , I made it. I found plans in a 1954 copy of the Motor Boat Annual I borrowed from the National Powerboat Museum at Pitsea, before the stupid bastards on the council threw it away in preference for mud huts for snotty nosed brats to go mad in. Only today I finally got some pictures from the Oulton Broad club with pics of the Darby boasts I hadn't seen, which show that the top cowling was always built a little higher than the plans show, so I shall be making some slight changes to the fixed portions. The photos show the fixed sections to be done with stringers and fabric, a la aeroplane fuselage. You can't buy decent older powerboats as kits or ready mades. Nobody gives a toss about speedboat models in this country, alas. Even though we had a very busy world of inboard race boats at one time. Now, all is boring outboards. The 1500 cc inboard classes gave us a lot of great racing just pre and post-War. Here are three in one race. "WHO'S DARBY?", Dawn, a Whippet class and Miss Windermere, another One design, like the Oulton Broad One design, all three are 1500 cc class boats. There wqere also boats of under 950cc and even a Singer Cadet class with a Singer Le Mans 1100 cc engine. The Singer Commodore had a 6 cylinder 1500, a gorgeous engine. Both Singers were designed by Percy See at Shoreham and had diagonal reverse clinker construction. I have plans if anyone is interested. Cheers, Martin

6 years ago by Westquay

Blog

BRAVE BORDERER - BRUSHLESS SUMMARY

Although have modeling experience, all my earlier vessels used brushed motors. This was my first brushless. The model is now running well, but thought, for the benefit of others considering this transition to summarize my experiences. Must stress the performance of a brushless motor is incredible when compared to a similar sized brushed; for a vessel such as this they are almost obligatory. They are worth the trouble! Had been advised that the best powertrain installation for a 37” Brave Borderer is either a single or twin screws, not three. This was good advice! Much heartache could have been avoided with a single screw installation. Unfortunately, that is not the correct layout for a scale builder. Tried three major powertrain iterations, with several variations within each group. All motors are 28mm O/D : 1) The original installation used 3 x 4600kV inrunner motors with 30 A ESCs. Had bought these items used. The motors were too fast and had little torque. The ESCs also did not have adequate capacity. The result was erratic performance, a high fuse failure rate and the eventual failure of an ESC and motor Picture #1. 2) First upgrade was to 2 x 2400kV inrunner motors, using 50A capacity ESCs. The centre shaft was fitted with a brushed motor. This combination did work, although suffered greatly from motor “squeal” and “stutter”. Eventually a motor burnt out and failed. Picture #2 3) Upgrade two: retained the 50 A ESCs, with 2 x 2600 kV outrunner motors, again with the brushed inner shaft motor. Reprogrammed the ESCs to soft start parameters. Much better, performance and reliability can now be considered acceptable. The squeal and stutter are largely corrected it has justified the challenges of getting here. Picture #3 Have tried both 2 and 3S Li-Po batteries, suggest use the minimum voltage needed to achieve the desired performance. Higher voltages translate into faster response and performance, but with less control modulation. The model can be easily overpowered. In summary, from my experience. For a marine application; chose low (under 2000kV) kV rating motors with an outrunner layout wherever possible (produce more torque than inrunners). Use ESCs with a ratings comfortably in excess of the motor ratings, fit fuses to supplement any ESC protections. Ensure the ESCs are programmed to “soft start” characteristics. Also, the obvious check of making sure shaft alignment is correct is even more important with the higher speed capability of brushless motors. in spite of the trails, cost and tribulations of getting here. Have enjoyed the challenge and the end result does justify the means. Also, do not finally fit the deck until you are satisfied with the performance. Making the changes described with limited access would have been very difficult and frustrating.

6 years ago by Rowen

Media

ASR 64ft R/C VID 2

Boat is Scratch built 36" British Power Boat 64ft ASR Launch which belonged to the RNZAF. The launch was one of the 22 built and was shipped to NZ in 1940. it was the only one of its type in the Southern Hemisphere. Model has twin motors, ESCs, sound units etc. Has remotely switched water pump for water cooled brushless 2000kv in runner motors and remotely switched lighting. Uses 2x 2200mah 2s LiPos for drive and 1 1800mah LiPo for the pump (also a separate battery for the LED lights. Boat is built with strip planked balsa on ply frame and fiber glassed. Deck is ply, wheelhouse is varnished balsa. The colour is as it was for most of its time in the RNZAF . Took about 5 years on and off to build and finished it last year. (please ignore the time date - can't get rid of it .

6 years ago by jbkiwi

Response

BRAVE BORDERER

If you are using 2 ESCs/BEC/UBECs with 2 plugged into 1 receiver you should remove the red wire from one of the plugs and tape it back to the lead, as both plugged in will possibly supply too much voltage for the receiver (you are getting double the voltage from 2 different sources) and this can cause the ESC to stutter . You should have no problems with Brushless out-runner motors as with the correct match with the ESC they should be as smooth as brushed. I have dual 2000kv 28/45 in-runners (with water jackets) and twin ESCs and 2 sound units using 1 receiver in my 64ft ASR model with no problems regarding proportional control (fwd or rev). I had a 28mm O/R in a Maiami ASR and it would crawl along (but the high noise was ear wrecking so have changed it back to brushed for now. I do have a similar slight high pitched squeal at certain speeds on one motor and this may be caused by the particular motor not 'syncing'properly with the ESC (Chinese cheap ESCs and HobbyKing /made in china motors) but short of changing that motor and ESC I am just putting up with it for now. The high pitched sync noise is fairly common and sometimes not fixable, (a number of my larger planes do it and its audible from 100m away (also amplified by a hull,-nice sound box). it can depend on the way a particular motor is wound (no 2 are identical) or even magnet placement/timing, as the may be hand wound by 2 very nice Chinese ladies at different ends of a bench ( just read some of the Hobby King motor reviews ) You could try changing the frequency on the ESC if it has that option as a higher motor Kv sometimes requires a higher frequency. Also make sure your ESC is set to the correct battery cell count. if it has an auto setting that should usually work best for general applications unless you are running fancy motors. Regarding interference, make sure you keep your aerial as far as poss from the motors and ESCs (even on 2.4 - I put mine right up in the bow) and there should be no problems. I have had 2 twin engined boats (my MTB & ASR) 1 brushed and 1 brushless running side by side 10" apart using the same radio for both (same type of Rec in each boat) with no problems at all. The bow down is probably prop shaft angle (the shallower the better) but if you are using counter rotating props you could try swapping props (inward rotation to outward) and motor rotation to see if it makes a difference. Also with 2800Kv motors you should be using small props (around 28-30mm diam 3 blade) as these motors are made to rev) as on a 2s battery they will be turning at around 20,000 dry and perhaps 18,000 wet (depending on prop) and if you load them too much they will cook with no cooling (assuming they are around 28mm dia ?) Only other thought - silicone couplings will squeal real loud if they slip.

6 years ago by jbkiwi

Response

BRAVE BORDERER

Doug, Am sure it can do both of those! So far, have not had a run long enough to really test the brass shafts. I hope to only need to use it for a couple of test runs shortly before will dismantle, make those upgrades and then finish the model over the winter. Rowen

6 years ago by Rowen

Blog

Italeri P.T 109

I bought an italeri PT109 kit in 2011. it took 4 months to build as I had other projects on at the time. I notices the high quality of the parts, especially the hull and the actual paint finish was very easy due to it being plastic and got the nearest colour match by using Humbrol spray acrylic of Grass Green with Regency Red acrylic for the waterline and below. Difficult decision was as to build as a triple screw to maintain scale or go for the single screw. I eventually went for the latter with just one rudder. Power was by a 480 brushed flight motor with a 30 amp esc which was a bit over the top as power was by a 2200mAh 2S Lipo but the esc was the only one they had in the shop. Getting the motor installed was very straight forward as it was done before the deck was fitted but I had to make the aft cabin detachable for access to taking the battery in and out and also lubricating the propshaft .The boat performed well at scale speed but got slightly out of shape when full power was applied, appearing more as a fast electric. Overall the boat was ideal for smaller ponds (providing it was not running flat out). The outcome was a well detailed model that appeared like the real thing on the water but I would not recommend sailing it in rough conditions.. Boaty😁

6 years ago by boaty

Blog

BRAVE BORDERER

Been researching the squeal and stutter on other websites and conclude RFI is probably not the major contributor. Others attribute it to a mismatch in the ESC / motor timing, which seems more likely. Whatever caused it, resulted in the affected motor failing. Which came first, the failure causing squeal or squeal causing failure is open to conjecture. Much to my surprise the manufacturer has decided to replace the motor under warranty. In the meantime, the motors I had planned to use originally (2800kV Outrunners) came into stock, so purchased a couple. Until now have had to use the ESC default settings as did not have a programming card. This also arrived with the motors. Following advice from another contributor reprogrammed the motors with “softer” start and acceleration settings. Fitted and tried the new motors and settings. On the bench, the squeal and stutter have almost gone. The motors are also more tractable. As the brushless motors are now going to be used for operation only, with slow on the centre brushed, thought could simplify the controls by putting the brushless ESCs on one control system using a “Y” lead. However, this introduced inconsistent and erratic motor responses. Reverted to the two previous separate controls, port and starboard. On the water the performance is fine, as is the reliability. The 2S battery gave almost half an hours operation. The bow lifts nicely with both 2 & 3 S Batteries; plenty of spray. Hopefully resembling a 50 knot vessel! Another adjustment is needed to the transom flaps to try to hold the bow down later as she accelerates. Feeling now to finally be making progress with this model. The squeal has not gone, nor has erratic motor operation. The squeal is high pitched screech, rather like treading on a budgie! When it happens, bringing the control back to neutral and advancing it again almost always overcomes it. The erratic operation happens also when starting and is rather like the motors are not getting a signal to react to the control. Again, returning through neutral briefly seems to correct it. The revised motors and ESCs have increased the weight to 6lbs for the hull including all running gear, excluding batteries and superstructure. Whilst still trying to control weight have concluded this figure is satisfactory as the performance certainly is.

6 years ago by Rowen

Forum

Chine Spray Rails

Spray rails tend not stop heeling, on tight turns they will dig in causing a heel, you could fit adjustable stabilisers on the lower transom like on racing boats. Cheers Colin.

6 years ago by Colin H

Blog

she sails!

I was hoping to get the Wavney on the water yesterday, but the weather gods put paid to that! Anyway, today was the day, so after adding almost 2kg of lead ballast fore and aft to get her on the waterline, it was off to Needham Lakes near Stowmarket, Suffolk. The initial sailing report is that she looks fantastic on the water despite it being a little choppy in the wind. The motors, ESC's performed perfectly, steering needs no adjusting and and at full tilt looked scale with a really nice bow wave. After 20 minutes of sailing which only dropped the 3S lipo down my 30%, all was well apart from a tiny little bit of water ingress at the back near the rudders. I can only put this down to water ingress from passes as the bow wave created a little puddle of water on the rear deck. I know the hull is watertight as she was sat in the hot tub for an hour this morning and was as dry as bone following that. Will have to look at sealing the removable rear cabin as I think thats where the water got in?

6 years ago by Skydive130

Forum

Graupner Jumbo 540 motors

I think it would be worth the risk of running the DC Motors at 7.2v (NiMh) or second choise 7.4v (Lipo) and get rid of the 6v lead acid battery. The chance of damaging the motor is limited, the battery packs will be lighter than an equivalent lead acid, but will need to by a charger as well. Always put a fuse in line rated 5 amps below that of the ESC. Or buy two higher voltage motor? only £6.99 each plus P&P link copy and paste into browser address:- https://howesmodels.co.uk/product/graupner-speed-600-8-4v-motor/

6 years ago by CB90

Response

Range Safety Launch?

Hi Neville, that far forward I would definitely look for some hull damage forward; crack in a seam or delamination? When you find it clean off all the paint around it, seal it with EzeKote and repaint. inside fill either side of the keel in that bay with resin. Check also the skin joints around the chine. Re motors; I don't see any suppression capacitors 😲 and the motors (or the one I can see) are mounted very high giving a very steep shaft angle! Will tend to push the bow down at speed instead of planing🤔 Ciao, Doug 😎

6 years ago by RNinMunich

Forum

So, why not woodies?...

Hi all, a coffee break question for you all. You will know me if you know me at all as a lover of the woodie, the mahogany hotrod, the classic speedboat. And I wonder why they are so very rarely modelled. There are plenty of plans for them and a few kits which can be made straight or converted into others. They are well documented on the 'net. There are some wonderful books about them (most of which I have!). Yet where are they all? Surely they are more fun to fling round a pond than some old tanker/coaster. I realise tugs can be made to erm...tug, if the rest of the equipment is available, but it rarely seems to be. Does the glamour of a highly varnished wooden or painted finish with chrome fittings not appeal? Does the average smallness of the classic speedboat not make for easy transport? Not a criticism, just a ponder, but some response would be appreciated. Cheers, Martin

6 years ago by Westquay

Blog

BRAVE BORDERER

This hobby gives countless opportunities for changing ideas! After some thought, have decided to try another approach. Whilst brushless motors give fantastic performance; so far have had poor experience of system reliability. As more information and advice from other modelers is gathered, suspect have been using undersized ESCs, accounting for many of the problems. However, whilst still waiting for the new brushless motors an idea developed. To instal a brushed motor on the centre shaft, whilst retaining brushless on the outers. My thinking is this could provide several advantages such as; a better slow speed performance more suitable for manoeuvring, lower current draw, improved fuse life and a reliable BECC output. it will also operate at below the Li-Po cut-off voltage, giving a “get home” facility in the event the brushless ESCs cut-offs operate. However, there is a slight weight penalty as brushed motors and ESCs are heavier than brushless. Fitted a brushed motor of the same O/D and mounting arrangement as the previous brushless to minimize installation issues. With a reliable Mtroniks ESC from my stock and suitable fuses, fitted these items along with the ballast and battery used earlier. Now, back to the pool. The system worked well. The vessel speed is much less than with a brushless motor on the centre shaft, but control-ability greatly improved. With the triple rudders she steers nicely. The thought of using a brushed motor on the centre shaft, with a brushless motor on each of the outers is attractive. it is hoped the additional operation of the outers in conjunction with with the centre shaft, will provide the expected performance. The centre shaft would then also provide manoeuvring and reliability with the outers shut down. If this works, think this power-train combination could be ideal. Once the new brushless motors and ESCs arrive will instal and report. On the attached pictures, the first shows the ballasted model sitting with the brushed centre shaft motor, the second with a brushless. The difference in draft is imperceptible, the bow sits slightly high in both cases. The third shows the model with the brushed centre shaft operating only at “full” speed.

6 years ago by Rowen

Forum

Bow wave suppression

Hi Floating Voter, I do so agree that I should be flying, not ploughing. in fact, she does plane quite well, but she is 'dirty' at very s.I am concerned that sooner or later, I will have electrical problems, despite trying to be careful not to overuse the throttle. She is fitted with 2 x JP EnErG brushless 600 O/R 1550 (C35 141), driving 38mm scale-type brass three bladers, contra-rotating. The pack is a 7.4 v, 30C lipo.

6 years ago by wunwinglo

Forum

Bow wave suppression

Guys, my MTB has a tendency to get a little flooded by her bow wave when under way at s. She has a scale spray suppression rail at the bow which is notched like the full-size. I do not want to mount anything TOO gross but do any of you have some practical suggestions to make to alieviate this problem?

6 years ago by wunwinglo

Forum

Bow wave suppression

Hi wunwinglo Try moving weight in the boat to the stern to let the bow come up at . Canabus

6 years ago by canabus

Forum

what have I got?

Bryan, that appears to be a Fast Patrol Boat. I don't know that it was a kit one, although Aerokits did one, but it looks to be a very nicely done model. You certainly can't get those batteries any more, Ever ready being long dead as a company, but please keep them. They are more museum pieces than the boat! And that motor is something interesting. if you want to replace it with some modern rubbish, I'd be interested in buying it from you for my "Maverick's collection of Unfeasable Motors". I would be tempted to leave the finish as it is as that is so typical of the period (late 50s), but rarely seen any more. it's a very nice boat and deserves to be kept in period. These boats for real, were not that fast, despite being called Launches, so you don't need some screaming brushless in it. A 400 brushed would be sufficient. Some suitable decals on the hull sides would finish it off nicely. You could paint those side windows dark gloss grey to represent glass from a distance. Cheers, Martin

6 years ago by Westquay

Response

Genesis 9000

I agree with the weight being shifted forward a iittle bit.Bow high in a catamaran will catch too much air causing the boat to flip.All it takes is a good gust of wind.Good speed on the boat.After trials you'll have a good fast boat.

6 years ago by Donnieboy

Blog

H.M.S. BRAVE BORDERER

An unexpected opportunity arose to try the unfinished hull in a small pool. Whilst the performance envelope could not be explored, was able to try and measure operating parameters and get a “feel” for the model. Used an electronic scale and a combination voltmeter/ammeter/wattmeter to measure propeller thrust /bollard pull and motor power requirements. if it is necessary to fit different drivetrain components, or a 3S cell this will serve as the baseline. The model floated levelly and well above the waterline. At about 8 volts the motors drew around 20 amps each at full speed; so only about 35% of the potential output capacity was being used. Tested each motor individually and measured the bollard pull at just over 2 lbs. A considerable amount of spray and wash was created making stable readings difficult. For further testing, will add ballast at the stern to hold the propellers further underwater. Should help reading stability. Currently using 20 A fuses; which as one failed seem marginal. For sustained use think 25 or 30 Amp better. With these high-speed, low torque motors establishing the “dry” propeller rotation is deceptive. Found one motor to be reversed! Nevertheless, the model accelerates quickly and is sensitive to engine speed movements. Left the pool with a list of modifications to make before assessing the installation properly on an adequate body of water. Some conclusions can be made though. if it is necessary to add a second cell this needs to be located around midships, not in the bow or stern. Still hoping a 3S cell will not be necessary and that 2S may be adequate. The suggestion to do testing using the bare hull with a minimum of detail was a good one. For a models with a sophisticated power train think this is a good approach. Nothing worse that finishing a boat just to find the performance disappointing, then have to to rip it apart to make major modifications or adjustments!

6 years ago by Rowen

Forum

47'' Fireboat power question

Hi Shaun, This design of hull forces the craft higher and higher the faster it goes. When it is high on the plane and almost hanging on the last few inches of propshaft it can fall off the plane either way, usually to the right (Starboard) side because of engine torque. The full size boats were fitted with 2 or 3 engines to help counteract this. The British Powerboat Company, who originally designed the hull that Vospers copied back in the 1930s/40s also noticed this which led to double skinning the hull with 1 inch thick mahogany for extra strength against pounding and falling on the waves. Lowering the drive angle of the propellor shafts and adding more weight from the C of G back to near the stern. We build this 3 screwed designed hull with one mainshaft usually so do not have the benefit of shaft rotation to stabilise the boat at speed. It was in the 1960's that Fairey engineers had the same problems (Swordsman,Huntsman etc) They came up with large transom mounted powered Trim Tabs. Their boats had similar problems and only one shaft in the main. I suggest you try fitting 2 x 2 inch wide by 1 inch deep trim tabs at the very bottom of your transom midway between the keel and the chine as well as move your battery packs forward a bit initially. Try some fast tests with this, you only need 2 to 4 degrees of down on the tabs initially. Add removeable weights near the CG as needed, a bit at a time but don't stop the bow lifting up onto the plane. Have fun, best of luck. Ron Rees

6 years ago by ronrees

Response

H.M.S. BRAVE BORDERER

Thanks all for the responses. Donnieboy - have thought out the plumbing, which is simplified by using a cooling pump. See future episodes! Doug - appreciate the concern regarding the red ESC wires. Have been trying to understand the rationale behind that theory. if all ESCs share a common input voltage, i.e. from one battery, what would the connection of multiple red wires do? Can understand if there were several unique power sources, but that is not the case here. Perhaps with your electronics background you can explain. Colmar - Used the angle on the scale drawing. if it were good enough for Vosper, should be good enough for me! Think it close to 7 degrees anyway. Think short shafts with oilers should help. Have heard of bushings running dry and seizing with these motors. The initial props are scale versions of the originals. Rather suspect they will not prove to be ideal. Have purchased some 2 blade racing style props for a future test. They have a much coarser pitch and are designed for motors. Intend to use plastic props initially as they are cheap enough to experiment with. Perhaps others have a comments on the cavitation question?. Incidentally, this is my first boat too, but there is much of information on both this web site and Model Boat Mayhem for guidance. Posting questions always generates useful information. Look widely though at all types of fast models, MTBs, RAF launches, E Boats etc. - it has all been done before!

6 years ago by Rowen

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H.M.S. BRAVE BORDERER

Once the rudder, propeller and shafts were installed, the position of the motors could be established. A light aluminium bracket to hold all three was fabricated and bonded to the hull. Due to the capability of the brushless motors, particular attention was paid to alignment. Also kept to the shortest prop. shafts that could be fitted to avoid whipping. Although the motor type might change, whatever is best will require a sound electrical installation as the current requirements for each brushless motor could reach 50 Amps. Wired each motor and ESC separately with its own dedicated fuse to give the maximum system protection. There is an extra fuse section allocated for auxiliary circuits, such as a cooling water pump and lights. Will try the original planned layout of 3 x 2835 motors with 30mm propellers and a 2S Li-Po battery first. Am hoping the reduced voltage will also make these motors more tractable. For the test program the three ESCs will be each controlled from an individual Rx channel. Once the final layout is determined, a more sophisticated and flexible control system can be installed. To minimize ballast, particularly around the stern, the battery will be housed as far into the bow as possible. After the test runs the final battery type, size and location can be established. To assess performance, hope to try both 2 and 3S Li-Po batteries. Planning to reduce heat build up by fitting cooling water jackets to the motors, these are easiest to instal at this stage so the wiring or mounts are not disturbed in the future. Have not decided the layout for the water circuit yet, but this easily can be added later. All that is needed now is the ice to melt off our local lakes so tests can commence.

6 years ago by Rowen

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Background Information

HSL100 Type 2 Launch 63 feet 21.5 tons 39 Knots 1941 built by The British Power Boat Company and popularly known as the 'Whaleback' (as the cabin looks like a whale diving). The craft operating in the North Sea / English Channel. Their armament consisted of any weapon which the crew could find, they started of with a single 303 in each ball turret and progressed to twin 303's, also some had two paired 303's on twin mounting posts and a 20mm on the rear deck where the life raft was originally. Between the 15th July 1940 and October Britain lost 215, hard to replace, pilots and aircrew to the seas. Thus in February 1941, with the motto "The sea shall not have them".The Air Sea Rescue Services (ASRS) were created, which later became the RAF Search and Rescue Force. :- 122 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 123 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 124 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 125 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 126 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 127 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 128 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 129 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 130 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 131 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 132 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 133 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 134 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 135 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 136 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 137 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 138 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 139 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 140 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 141 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 142 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 143 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 144 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 145 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 146 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 147 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 148 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 149 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK - 156 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 157 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 158 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 159 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 161 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 162 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 163 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 164 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 165 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 166 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 168 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 169 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 171 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 172 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 173 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 174 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 175 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 176 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 177 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 178 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 179 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 180 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 181 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 182 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 183 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 185 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 186 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 187 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 188 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 189 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 190 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK - 2250 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK - 2546 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 2547 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 2548 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 2549 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 2550 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK 2551 63ft BRITISH POWER BOAT HSL WHALEBACK By the end of WWII more than 8,000 aircrew and 5,000 civilians had been rescued by the service. The role of aircraft in the ASRS was to locate downed airmen and help them, by dropping them survival equipment and stores, while they waited for an ASRS launch to pick them up.

6 years ago by CB90

Forum

Calling Devon boaters. Help!

Hi, I would be inclined to fit one just above the waterline, 1/8 or 3/16 square. This is to reduce the risk of swamping the boat at , esp. in a tight turn 😲 There are some excellent tips on the site about how to retrofit them. Attached some pics and notes I downloaded from Dave_M's contribution. May need to do this to my Sea Scout, depending on the sea-trial😉 Cheers Doug 😎

6 years ago by RNinMunich

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Up Grade NDQ speed boat

This is not a build but a modification of a cheap Chinese boat just for fun, I got a bit bored of scratch building projects as they take so long especially as I am not retired yet. The NDQ 757 Coastal Brother 1:25 Radio Controlled Racing Power Boat cost about £25 each from Amazon. These boats have a basic 27mhz radio and two 380 type motors which have forward and reverse and you steer by powering one motor or both for straight ahead. I bought two of these boats as they are light and about 24 in long, one to convert/upgrade radio, esc and brushed motors. The second was to upgrade radio, esc for brushless motors. The brushed motor version I put in two higher rated motors (390) with cooling fans built in, but same motor diameter but longer body I had to modify the mounts, kept same couplings and shaft/propellers. I did remove trim tabs (fixed) and replaced the straight running adjuster for a racing rudder. The brushless version is the same but has brushless motors 2x 2845 2600KV sensor less Specifications: KV(RPM/Volt): 2600KV RPM: 50000 Max Current: 42A The boats ran well but trimming needs attention, as hull is curved up at the back so trim tabs down, to prevent proposing, in-fact at one stage the boat left the water, but need to distribute weight towards the bow. Tried on 3S (11.1v) for brushless went well but got slightly hot after 10 mins. 7.4v for brushed also got slightly hot after 10 mins., and went nearly as well as the brushless. Surprised!!

6 years ago by CB90

Forum

Park lakes

Same here in Munich Colin, we happily share the lakes with a myriad of moorhens, ducks, geese and swans. They don't bother us and any idiot that bothers them (esp. with a speed boat) rapidly gets what he deserves from the locals! I'm very pleased to say 😉 have seen some highly 'animated' shall we say 'discussions'! Exit one red faced speed-boater 😊 Greetings, Doug

6 years ago by RNinMunich

Forum

Graupner Elke HF 408

Hi Allen I did wonder if it was an ex flyer type as it had the gearbox. The markings can help but not possibly in this case. The other major supplier was Johnson but I can't find your TD224. I suspect this will be a high current fast rev motor probably 12v max. To work with your model I think you will be well advised to follow Doug's suggestion and fit a 6v battery. If you can see the windings inside the motor case and they are thick and few then it is a fast and high current motor. The prop looks like a Graupner and is fine pitch and similar models in my club have a nice brass prop of fairly coarse pitch to give a good slow scale speed. The gearbox will allow you to fit a brass prop of similar dimensions to yours. Initially I agree with Doug though, just pop it in the water and see how it performs. With your luck you will probably source a suitable prop from the car boot sales! Finally As the motor is old it could have shorted windings, in which case it's going to get hot. if you have a good multimeter you can check for low resistance between the case and one of the motor connectors. Use the highest Ohms setting you have and rotate the motor shaft a full revolution, repeat with progressively lower Ohms settings. You should have good insulation between the windings and the case, if you are getting any ohm readings chances are there are shorted windings on the armature and the motor is terminal.

6 years ago by Dave M

Forum

Too Powerful Brushless ?

I think you might need pointing in a direction, so I had a quick look on Hobbyking, and this motor is the sort of thing you can use, although this particular one would need you to swop the shaft around, this is just a guide, other s will no doubt add comment, its the right size, 5mm shaft, right kv and watts. https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-g15-brushless-outrunner-810kv.html brushless esc https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbyking-90a-boat-esc-4a-sbec.html you don't need the high amp capability, but its reversing, programmable, water cooled, and has an sbec, so the main battery power this 5 mm shaft, move your motor to the centre section meaning weight distribution is more central, and you can now use a shorter shaft, and get a couple off plastic "x" props, I would say 40 to 45mm will be the one. This will give a good speed, and you can power on 3 cells or 4 cells lipo, get higher c rating (40c or more) and higher mah so you have fuel in the tank available https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-battery-3000mah-4s-40c-lipo-pack-xt-60.html This is just a guide, a starting point, as I feel you are unsure where to start, others with more knowledge will come in regarding this, having experience with lipo, brushless, 3 foot ply boats, and esc's, depending on budget, this would be the sort of thing I would be getting.

6 years ago by pmdevlin

Response

FeiLun FT-011 Ready to Run electric Racing Boat

That look's an awesome little boat really fast ans fun.

6 years ago by BOATSHED

Forum

Too Powerful Brushless ?

sorry to bore everyone with repeated info, as a similar question was posed recently. I agree with the fact that shaft is too thin, it very much looks llike a fibreglass very light racing boat set up, now this doesnt mean you cant go fast with your boat, but you need components that are up to lugging a big heavy lump of wood around the pond, not a lightweight feather😊 I have 5mm shafts, less whipping. and I have oilers so they are lubricated with oil rather than grease, just my preference. You can get these shafts from shg marine, they will supply with push in aceteal (probably spelt wrong!) water lubricated bearings, real cheap, so you can change then every season if you want. The shaft has to be supported, where it exits the hull, just put it through another piece of ply, and fill the void with epoxy, and double up the former thingy it goes through in the same way. (pic) The prop you used is the wrong blade type, thats probaly why it fell apart, plus the soldered on blades are a weak design for higher speed, simon higging is one piece, but at this stage, still testing, you can get plastic "x" blade ("s" blade are less speed)_ props again from shg marine for a few quid each, then you can test a few different sizes. if you jump in for an expensive brass one, and its wrong, its wasted money. As a starting point, 35mm, 40mm and 45mm, if you dont have any way of testing with data logging etc, you are doing short runs, with the smallest first, and seeing if the motor gets hot etc, and what sort of speed you are doing. My brushless motors are generally 800 to 900kv, and achieve 25mph in four foot heavy hulls, you want lower kv for torque, not high kv high rev motors. I got into thsi 10 years ago, thwere was NO advice around then as it was new tech in boats so I learnt the hard way😭 When (if) you go to a brass prop, the "cleaver" blade design (pic) works well, I did extensive testing with my Huntsman and fireboat and was lucky enough to have Simon Higgins testing props with me on my boats, again because what I was doing, large scale boats, but going very fast, was unique, and the cleaver design was the best at the time. Forget the fear of lipo, and brushless, they go as slow as your throttle stick is pushed, 👍

6 years ago by pmdevlin

Forum

Too Powerful Brushless ?

Hi Graham, all agreed with you post. But. The last photo looks like the blades are soldered or brazed on, that is a week point, but looking closely the blade appears to have sheared of above the hub. Your hull is not really a hull, so a racing prop might cause instability, i would suggest a cast prop, (propshop) and possibly 3 blades 40 - 45mm with your 1100kv motor would give good speed combined with good run time. The 5mm upgrade is also a great idea. A rule of thumb is don't exceed the diameter of the motor. Mark

6 years ago by jarvo

Forum

Too Powerful Brushless ?

Hi traiderman I am no expert. dont forget, as pmdent highlights, you you multiply the KV by the volts of the supply to get the RPM of the prop. so you can play with the volts supplied or the Kv of the motor or both. regarding the vibration, have you supported the outer end of the shaft? if the shaft leaves the hull and has a good amount of unsupported shaft the end of the shaft effectively will scribe a circle. At the speed the shaft is turning and with the pressure on the prop this may cause your vibration. Richard

6 years ago by rmwall107

Forum

46'' Firefloat What Motor/Battery

Hi John, you might now be scratching your head, and wishing you have not asked the original question! This seems to be a common issue, as the boating community is light years behind the other disciplines, rc cars, planes helis and so on, its probably due to the facts general boating doesnt really need the later generation technology, the average boater age is probably higher than the other disciplines so budgeting might be an issue, and there is less younger blood in the clubs to explain the lipo/brushless etc. We see posts with a load of numbers, specs, warnings etc, its enough to put people off. Im a big fan of brushless/lipo/ 2.4 etc, been doing it for years, its cheaper and more efficient (once you have the basics) but for the average guy, who just wants to spend an easy afternoon at the local lake gently cruising around, brushed motors, nimhs batteries, even lead acid, will do the job👍 Your 4 foot ply boat, once painted, with fittings, will be heavy, I know, I own one. Those 600 motors are not big enough, they are better suited to the smaller 3 foot boat, then, pushing them with a 6v lead acid, just cant do it. The battery will be screaming HELP!! I started 15 years back exactly the same, 600 motor, 6v battery, massive 50mm prop, I knew no better and took advise from people who didnt know what they were talking about😡, remember those gold hi tech speed controllers!! I had one, it melted, literally melted on the first use😭 Get 700 size motors, they will need to be water cooled, as mentioned by jarvo, the nominal voltage or below isnt good enough, power them at the max voltage. Brushed means you can use one apropriate esc, look out for electronize (are they still in existance?) or mtroniks, preferably use nimhs batteries over lead acid with a high mah. If after all this you want to venture into lipos and brushless motors, go to a club, spot a boat that is similar in size to yours, if you like the performance talk to the owner and gain experience and knowledge that way, it will save money, lost time and a lot of disappointment, I have been there so feel your pain. I say I would never go back to brushed motors and none lipo batteries, but I always want silly speed, not runtime, after 15 minutes Ive had enough and am bored. Rambling over! My 4 foot boat is twin brushless and uses 4 lipo 5000mah cells per motor, it will do 25mph for 15 mins, then I go home😁 Message is, you can get a "reasonable" performance from brushed motors, with the correct batteries, right props, but weight is the enemy. Looks lie you are at Biddulph, get onto Dave M a moderator on here, and arrange to go over to see the crewe and district boys on one of their sailing days, take your boat with you, they will help👍

6 years ago by pmdevlin

Forum

replacing propshaft

Hi Replacing the drive shaft with a flex drive can be done, but, flex drives DO NOT LIKE REVERSE !!!! They are only design for boats. Canabus

6 years ago by canabus

Forum

motors

Hi pilot ChrisF is about right with the overland, but, if it's Hobbyking stuff. A Turnigy L5055C-700kv 1600watts on 4 to 6S with a 100Amp ESC which will handle up to 6S. I am starting with a 2blade 52mm CNC prop(377000019) on 4S. The 3674 1900kv is more for a race boat. Canabus

6 years ago by canabus

Forum

Sea Queen Spray Rails

Yes some more recent models, predominantly made for racing do have moulded rails along the bottom. Two reasons, one to add strength, especially if of thin material and secondly to provide lateral stability at the s encountered. When the Aerokits were designed in around 1960s plastic was not commonly available to hobbyists and models were designed using wood/plywood and the originals did not even have spray rails fitted. The running gear was also heavy and bulky resulting in much heavier models than are possible today so the hulls did not plane so easily and the rails were not needed for most models. Technology can now turn out hulls in bulk using extruded and formed plastic and the rails add to the strength to help keep the shape. You can see this on most plastic packaging used for consumer items

6 years ago by Dave M

Forum

Seabreacher

Just spent a few hours fitting brushless motor to seabreacher....and 150amp esc ...problem working at these high motor speeds is vibration and motor has actually bent the driveshaft which is brass 6 mm ...next step is new shaft of steel....

7 years ago by Captain-Steve

Response

Palaform Griffon 600 - Police

Fran Oakey designed the Griffon 600 as a wooden model. Originally called the MM600 it used 2mm liteply without any lightning holes. It is heavier than the Depron version but will operate in rougher water and higher wind speeds. Takes the knocks better too.

7 years ago by tonymid