Forum

SEA COMANDER RE-FURB.

Just started this re-furb 😭, I forgot about this boat, it was built in 1966 by my dad👍. Been in my sisters loft since 1975 and was only found a few weeks ago when she moved house. so hope to add to my harbour as soon as its seaworthy.👍 Biggest problem is the amount of fiberglass on the outside of the joints, old heavy duty stuff but seems to be coming away okay, will be coating hull in Ezicote and fine glass cloth. At least it makes up for the loss of dads old .😊

6 years ago by Colin H

Forum

Bismark

With the size my workshop will turn out to be, That is a very tempting idea😆 Part will be for the restoration of my Billings , and part for my other hobby of model aircraft, I have a number of repair jobs due to the haulage company when we moved here to Portugal.

5 years ago by Wingcoax

Forum

- strakes

have a look at this

5 years ago by jacko

Forum

- strakes

Building a , what are peoples feelings about fitting spray rails ? I feel it needs them, but where ? This was ment to be about Spray Rails not Strakes (must be getting old........)

6 years ago by AndyG009

Forum

- strakes

Thanks for the prompt replies...looks a definite inclusion for my build then. 👍

5 years ago by vk6tnc

Forum

- strakes

Have you got any pictures of these triangular spray rails?

5 years ago by BOATSHED

Forum

- strakes

I found when fitting spray rails to use triangular stock like trailing edge section for aircraft wings. it looks neat and bends more easily than square stock.Fitted thin edge up the right angled face forming the deflecting face. Filled and sanded it blends well into the hull. Maybe not true scale but looks nice. it comes in many sizes and suppliers.SLEC is one for starters and Hobbies is another. Balsa Cabin another. Just loads if you use uncle Google.👍

5 years ago by onetenor

Forum

- strakes

The principle is simple. Fluid flowing over a surface tends to stick to it (Google Coanda Effect). it's worse at the low Reynolds numbers that models work at. The result is that water displaced by the boat at speed tends to flow up the sides of the hull, sticking to them, and can even pour onto the deck. This slows the boat down and can swamp it. If you have a sharp chine, you can force the water to move away from the hull at the discontinuity, because it can't easily flow around a sharp angle. ideally, you can deflect it downwards and get some lift, helping the boat onto the plane. So a lot of models have small rails along the chine, shaped to deflect the water downwards a bit. This is what many of the Aerokits models have. Deep Vee design relies on these a lot - the bottom of the hull has a series of parallel spray rails so that as the boat rises in the water the spray is deflected downwards by each rail in turn and an ever-smaller part of the hull bottom is wetted - reducing drag a lot. But the is not a Deep Vee, and doesn't need more that the one set of rails along the chine. Deep Vee spray rails can also help to cushion the shock when a boat drops back into the water after leaving it - but that's more useful in full-size practice rather than models....

5 years ago by DodgyGeezer

Forum

- strakes

I am about to start a Seaqueen build, as a complete novice, can anyone expand on the spray rail concept please?

5 years ago by vk6tnc

Response

Aerokits/Jotika

Titebond 3 is a high performance PVA. We can't get Titebond 3 here in South Africa. Gorilla/Gator glue you which is a polyurethane based glue have to Work using Rubber Gloves and have a bottle of rubbing Alcohol handy as it sticks like mad and you won't be able to get it off your hands. I still have Cascamite! Been using a Sika PVA adhesive but the bulwarks were fitted with ZAP 30 minute Epoxy. I have found an eight hour epoxy to fix the stringers to the bulkheads with with. Why is it we make short worktime adhesives is beyond me. I have always found that the quickset glues are prone to be brittle. The only one I haven't found to be brittle is ZAP. Going to epoxy the inside of the boat before fitting the skins

5 years ago by Ianh

Response

Roger.com, I am not so sure about being less detail on a Norfolk Broads Cruiser. I have a small 21ft fibre glass hulled boat in Potter Heigham on the Broads. But when you see the older wooden Broads Cruisers they have lots of detail especially the ones that get cared for as they should being wooden built. Some of them are so beautiful and well varnished polished brass, Chrome fittings and well groomed. if I could afford a wooden cruiser and be able to keep her in the fashion she should be kept then I would. But if I win the lottery then I will have one. Even the old wooden sailing yacht's are kept in wonderful condition and lots of detail brass etc.

5 years ago by BOATSHED

Response

unnamed

If she is the 34" model then she's the Sea Commander, 46" is the . I have got both, picked them up from boot fairs, at least 4+ years ago, and sadly still awaiting refurb. I also have a 46" Crash Tender still waiting the same. As well as a 34" crash Tender I bought back in 1994 as a 50 years anniversary kit and a 46" I got at wings and wheels about 3 years ago both in boxes waiting a full build from new. I have also still got my early 1970's Sea Hornet that also needs a refurb. Amongst other new and second hand models to get sorted out. I always say one day I will get round to it.

5 years ago by BOATSHED

Directory

(Pleasure Craft) / commander

just picked this one up needs work but will sit here for a few weeks / months / years who knows (5/10)

5 years ago by jacko

Response

Wow great bit of video, she performs very well on the water and turns seem to be very stable. Nice one. I have a I have got to renovate. What motor are you running in her please.

5 years ago by BOATSHED

Forum

Merry Christmas and a Happy New year.

Hi frames and Aerokit plans Biro pens and popular ply aside A Very merry Xmas to you Forgive me it is the wine too much of Cheers Ian T

5 years ago by TOWN3810

Forum

Frames

"I wish I had never said anything or about Biro pretend deck planking Cheers Ian T" You weren't to know he was selling such crap! Are you sure it's the same guy you got yours from? I can't believe he was supplying first class drawings years ago and is now supplying rubbish. Why bother drawing (well trying to) around the frames etc. when you already have good drawings?

5 years ago by ChrisF

Forum

Frames

Hi I was lucky enough to be given a set of plans by a member on this forum but of course the plans dont show the frames and they need to be drawn up from the lines on the side and plan views . Its not that I cant do it but it seems silly re inventing the wheel if someone has already done it . So if any one has drawings of the frames for the Aerokits 46" I would be very grateful for a copy Cheers Don

5 years ago by donrecardo

Forum

Frames

Whatever floats your boat Don 😉 Merry Christmas, Doug 😎

5 years ago by RNinMunich

Forum

Frames

Town3810 wrote I wish I had never said anything or about Biro pretend deck planking Cheers Ian T I'm lucky in as much as I have a laser cutter so by turning the power down I can burn the lines into the deck then turn it up to cut the deck outline

5 years ago by donrecardo

Forum

Frames

RNinMunich wrote Hi Chris, If 'HE' "is blatantly copying the original kit drawings with Aerokits on them rather than redrawing them" why are they such 'freehand' rubbish? Surely the 'original kit drawings' were not! No, you misunderstand , the original drawings are great, but aerokits never included frames with their plans as the frames were pre cut in the kit "HE" blatantly copies the Aerokit plan then hand draws the frames which are Crap. The side and plan view are excellent copies , but his selling point is he is the only person who includes the frames with his plans which he says are drawn to a high standard. in fact he says just put the frame drawings on the wood and cut out . That would be fine if you want a twisted boat . You cant make a straight boat when the two sides of a frame are not mirror images of each other Don

5 years ago by donrecardo

Forum

Frames

I wish I had never said anything or about Biro pretend deck planking Cheers Ian T

5 years ago by TOWN3810

Forum

Frames

Hi Chris, If 'HE' "is blatantly copying the original kit drawings with Aerokits on them rather than redrawing them" why are they such 'freehand' rubbish? Surely the 'original kit drawings' were not! Interesting (and probably never ending🤔) debate. Cheers all and Garry Chrimbo, Doug 😎

5 years ago by RNinMunich

Forum

Frames

Yes, copyright is a real hornet's nest. I remember reading an article in Building magazine many years ago on the subject of copyright where one large housebuilder tried to take another to court because it had copied one of its designs. But because the defendant had slightly altered the design it got away with it. So for example if I put my Swordsman drawings on Ebay, which were based on the kit drawings, I shouldn't have any problem as I have made a number of alterations. I won't be of course as I've only drawn enough for me to build my model, they are not full working drawings and I'm not interested in doing that. Where that guy on Ebay is at fault is that he is blatantly copying the original kit drawings with Aerokits on them rather than redrawing them - not that he has the wherewithal!

5 years ago by ChrisF

Forum

Frames

" I'm in no way condoning what that guy on Ebay is doing but the problem with the copyright owner is that they are not making drawings available for all of the boats that they produced hence why the likes of that guy on Ebay are able to keep on selling albeit illegally." I'm not suggesting that you are condoning what they are doing - I'm just saying that complaining to Ebay won't help at all - giving the seller bad feedback will help a little. There is a problem with old boat plans and copyright. The US and the EU together - under corporate lobbying - brought in a rule that copyright exists for a very long time, which was totally against the aim of the original copyright legislation. This creates the problem of 'copyright orphans'. Old model boat plans suffer a lot from this - they were often created by a small company which eventually closed down without passing copyright ownership on. Under EU legislation the copyright still exists, but is probably owned by relatives of the original holder - who won't know anything about it. Worse - ownership will be spread around the relatives - at a worst case there may be 50 or more of them. The EU says that you should make best efforts to trace them and obtain permission. Good luck with that! And if you were to trace them all, almost certainly one would consider that a nice little earner had fallen into their lap, engage a lawyer and ask for a stiff fee.... I run a web site aimed at gathering these old plans, addressing copyright issues and publishing them for free, so as to save them from oblivion. in most cases the copyright resides with another big hobby company who will have bought up the rights to many small ones, and in most cases they are happy to give me permission to publish their old plans. Occasionally a company employs an archivist who will provide plans for a fee - and occasionally the old kits are still available. in that case I don't publish. I have only had one company say that they would not provide prints of old plans, but that I could not publish either. That was MidWest. I seem to do better with the USA hobbyists than I do in the UK. I have quite a large collection of Sterling plans, for instance, but very few from the old UK companies like Feltra. if anyone has any old plans that they would be happy getting onto the web, go to http://oldboats.tk and have a look around....

5 years ago by DodgyGeezer

Forum

Frames

Don - that's basically what I did but went a stage further by tracing the top and side views on the PC and then producing the frames from them which is very accurate. DodgyGeezer - I'm in no way condoning what that guy on Ebay is doing but the problem with the copyright owner is that they are not making drawings available for all of the boats that they produced hence why the likes of that guy on Ebay are able to keep on selling albeit illegally.

5 years ago by ChrisF

Forum

Frames

The seller doesn't care about that. And Ebay doesn't care about that. I have had this battle. Ebay deals in volume sales with some simple rules. So long as the seller is willing to refund unhappy customers they can continue trading. Ebay are not competent to determine what counts as 'not well drawn' for a set of model plans, and won't get into that argument. Ebay will go through a standard procedure if copyright breach is alleged. From their site: "EeBay has created the VeRO program to protect intellectual property owners from trademark, patent or copyright infringement. Property right owners register with the VeRO program by sending eBay legal documentation and proof that they own the specified intellectual property. Having registered with eBay’s VeRO program, these property right owners monitor listings on eBay, or they use third-party web monitoring agents that help warn them of infringement threats. When their rights are violated, the owner or a representative can file a complaint by filling out the NOCI (Notice of Claimed infringement) form, complete with proof of the violation, and sending it to eBay by email or fax. eBay then investigates the issue and notifies the seller via email that a VeRO participant requested that their listing be removed. The listing will remain suspended unless and until a settlement is reached between the seller and the property rights owner." Unless the Aerokits copyright holder takes VeRO action there is nothing you can do to stop copyright breach. This makes me quite unhappy, because I would like to put the full set of Aerokits plans up on my Old Boat Plans website, but I will only do it with copyright holder approval. If you want to do anything about it you would be best advised to contact Lesro and encourage them to do something about it - http://lesromodels.co.uk/contact/

5 years ago by DodgyGeezer

Forum

Frames

You are correct of course in saying it stops me leaving bad feedback , but it doesn't stop me informing Ebay that its not only copyrighted material it is also not as described 😉

5 years ago by donrecardo

Forum

Frames

"Well I sent him an ebay msg expressing how displeased I was with the quality of his High Standard drawings and he said send them back for a full refund , so thats fair enough I suppose. its just a shame that a lot more people will also fall for the same thing ." I do not publish plans of the Aerokits boats on my website, because they are still under copyright and being sold commercially, so I wonder if these plans are being sold legally under license or not? The fact that the bulkheads are badly drawn suggests the latter.... Providing a complete refund minimises the risk of you leaving bad feedback - which is the only thing these sellers are scared of.

5 years ago by DodgyGeezer

Forum

Frames

I found the best way is to take height and widths from the side and plan viewsof the main plan and draw new frames from there. I will know if I got it right when I build it. I know one thing for certain, they will be a better fit than the drawings he sent me , at least they are symetric about the center line

5 years ago by donrecardo

Forum

Frames

Yes, I first started redrawing the frames by choosing the "best" side and then doing a mirror image but they are so poor even that didn't work as the angle and position of the stringers wasn't consistent from frame to frame.

5 years ago by ChrisF

Forum

Frames

Well I sent him an ebay msg expressing how displeased I was with the quality of his High Standard drawings and he said send them back for a full refund , so thats fair enough I suppose. its just a shame that a lot more people will also fall for the same thing . I did ask him if Stevie Wonder had drawn them He did try the trick of saying it says printed to a high standard but I pointed out it said Hand Drawn & printed ( to a high standard ). I did suggest he changed his listing to say hand drawn to the best of my ability which is pretty poor but printed to a high standard. it also says on the listing just transfer the drawings to the wood and cut them out. Well considering the frames are not mirror images side to side thats going to make a very twisted boat

5 years ago by donrecardo

Forum

Frames

Hi my plans for and sea commander purchased from the same guy 5 years ago were perfect in every way Ps i also use Biro for pretend deck planking Cheers Ian t

5 years ago by TOWN3810

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Frames

Absolutely. Why would you think anything less? if he was being honest he would say "very badly and inaccurately drawn and printed to a high standard!

5 years ago by ChrisF

Forum

Frames

As it said drawn and printed to a high standard I read that as they are both drawn to a high standard and printed to a high standard and I think Ebay will see it that way too

5 years ago by donrecardo

Forum

Frames

Sorry a bit off the original topic but here's a picture of my Swordsman build underway, ready for skinning. I made quite a few modifications to the drawings because I wanted the aft cockpit version at a scale of 1:12 and added a spine and "fingers" to help with construction.

5 years ago by ChrisF

Forum

Frames

Don - Unfortunately I didn't see your post until after you had ordered, so too late to warn you and I may have been wrong as regards those particular plans. Unfortunately I wasn't. Jacko - I see what you mean but drawn and printed are all one sentence so I read it as both were to a high standard and that is what you would reasonably expect. Even if the draughtsmanship wasn't the best (and I can draw to a very high standard on the drawing board and PC) they should at least be accurate, which they are anything but. The guy's just a chancer. Modelboatdevil - the plans I got were for the Swordsman. There are some original Philip Connelly plans for the Swordsman on Ebay at the moment, though they are somewhat yellowed and creased! I've never seen an example of the Aerokits Swordsman or Veron Huntsman 28 kits. What size are you looking to build to? Chris

5 years ago by ChrisF

Forum

Frames

don't think i will be buying any plans from him if that's the standard ?? i did read "Printed to a high standard" (not drawn )

5 years ago by jacko

Forum

Frames

Well , I'm sorry to say our fears were correct because the first of the two plans (Sea Commander) arrived this morning and as others have found the high quality drawings are absolute SH*T 😡 I think all curved lines were hand sketched by someone with very shaky hands 😲 I shall try and attach some pics. The first shows his attempt at the front windows A scan of his efforts is at the top , the correct drawing is below it The second picture is his attempt at the rear deck . One edge is a hand drawn wiggly line that should be straight . The drawing is too high, and the two sides should taper in towards the back . His drawing has one tapering in towards the back but the other side tapers outwards The third picture is a scan of one of the frames which is folded in two so as to check that both sides of it are mirror images . They are not even close So I will wait for my second plan to arrive () which I expect to be no better and then put in my claim for not as described Drawn to a high standard ? what a joke

5 years ago by donrecardo

Forum

Frames

I've had same feeling on my Fairey Swordsman plan I got from this guy, since not going to re-draw the frames myself, I rather prefer to look for a kit, but still in vain.

5 years ago by modelboatdevil

Forum

Frames

Hi Don - unfortunately I didn't look at them in detail for some time and it was too late to do anything about it. it was useful having the kit drawings though which are drawn well. Whilst redrawing I did modify the construction etc. so not a complete waste of time. Yes, the "drawn to a high standard" made me laugh, maybe if they had been done by a chimp! Lines were wavy and the frames weren't symmetrical and would be a nightmare to build from and someone even had the cheek to put the copyright symbol on them! Maybe the ones you bought will be better, but I doubt it. Chris

5 years ago by ChrisF

Forum

Frames

Hi Chris Yes I will let you know what they are like , but if they are as bad as you say I will ask for a refund, I cant see why you would accept paying for them and then redraw them yourself . His listing clearly states the frames and other parts are drawn to a high standard and if they are not then they are not as described and Ebay will get you a refund Don

5 years ago by donrecardo

Forum

Frames

Let us know what the quality is like. I bought some plans for a Fairey and the quality of the drawings for the templates was appalling. Fortunately I was able to redraw them using the kit drawings for the plan and side view.

5 years ago by ChrisF

Forum

define a model boat

Many of my models are models of models - the Sea Princess, for instance, is a half-sized . in some cases EeZeBilt boats are actually made larger than their originals - so a double-sized Curlew or Triton is a 2:1 scale model of a model rather than a 1:2. Very recursive...

5 years ago by DodgyGeezer

Response

aeronaut classic

I am also upgrading the prop shaft, I have purchased a 4mm shaft to use that has a decent outer casing. All other boats I have built the side chine rails have all bee 1/4 x1/4 inch rails. I am just so disappointed with some of the substandard use of certain parts. I just feel for the price they are cutting costs to up their profits on the boat. I have built a few of the older AeroKits like the RAF crash tender, Sea commander, and Sea Hornet as well as the Precedent Fairey Huntsman, and these all have a substantial set of side rail to fit and even the bulk head pieces are a much better thickness of ply. I would just not recommend the Aeronuat kits to anyone myself now. I was just going to fit a standard Gruapner speed 400 motor in but still unsure. I was thinking maybe a brushless may just be a bit overpowering her. but as I say still unsure, I may put in a brushless yet who knows. Keep us informed on here as to you progress I am keen to see your finished model. I suspect yours will be finished well before mine as I have shelved the build for now. Happy modelling.

5 years ago by BOATSHED

Forum

Frames

Rookysailor wrote..... Hello Don, Cannot understand as to why you could not fined the plans for the on Ebay, here is the direct link..... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEA-QUEEN-VINTAGE-MODEL-BOAT-PLAN... Hope you get them OK👍 No I cant understand why I couldnt find them either . This seems to be happening more and more . Lets call it an age thing 😊 Anyway thanks for the link . Plans ordered now 👍

5 years ago by donrecardo

Forum

Frames

Hello Don, Cannot understand as to why you could not fined the plans for the on Ebay, here is the direct link..... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEA-QUEEN-VINTAGE-MODEL-BOAT-PLANS-TEMPLATES-INSTRUCTIONS/123543246445?hash= Hope you get them OK👍 Cheers Peter😊

5 years ago by Rookysailor

Forum

Frames

I also bought a copy of the sea commander plans while I was there

5 years ago by donrecardo

Forum

Frames

Hi Steve yes I sent him a msg on Ebays ask seller a question

5 years ago by donrecardo

Forum

Frames

I would still ask him even if it is not on his site. Steve

5 years ago by steve-d

Forum

Frames

Hi Town3810 I read your post again , but carefully this time and saw I need to search under model boats not aerokit plans . I found his site but he appears to have everything but a which is the one I'm after but thanks for the heads up Don

5 years ago by donrecardo