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Hi Steve, I have the same problem with the ESCs in my HSL. They are cheap Chinese car models and can be a bit tricky to get into reverse quickly. I have found that either waiting a few seconds in neutral before trying reverse, or going to neutral and flicking the throttle forward a few clicks and back to neutral quickly (in .5 sec) usually sorts it. I think it may be that the motor stops somewhere that the cheaper ESCs can't detect (bit like an old car starter that hits the bald spot on the ring gear and you have to jog it a bit) so you have to move it slightly for it to 'see' it (maybe the capacitors also). Brushed ESCs don't have that problem as the brushes are in constant contact, rather than relying on correct positioning in Brushless motors. You will also find that some Chinese motors are not timed/wound correctly, and you can feel weak or 'floaty' spots between certain magnets which may also cause a problem. Perhaps trying a higher or lower ESC timing by 1 step either way might help if you have that capability.
if it works by just flicking the throttle method, you can just slow down as you come in and take you time finding reverse in a scale like manner (remember the PT109 movie where they went through the shed on the wharf) You can also try swapping the other pairs of wires on the motor (same direction but different pairs). if you are still not happy then it might be time as Doug said, for a better ESC with instructions. Get one which has all the programing features, (fwd, rev , timing, auto batt detection (lipos or NmH etc) starting mode- ie soft,hard, brake etc) this will give you plenty of options for adjustment. Doesn't have to be a marine one, a good known brand car/buggy one will do and if you have any heat problems you can always put a mini fan on it. Water cooled marine ESCs are really only for high amp high speed setups. My 36"HSL has 2x 30A car ESCs running 2x 28/45 2000kv water cooled motors and ESCs never get even warm. Pictured are the ESCs I am using from HK which have an output plug for a fan if needs be. The 3rd pic is the brushless ESC types (EBay, AliExpress) I am using, which have no problems with reverse
(see vid section re Thornycroft MTB maneuvering) also the HSL vids to give you an idea of how these brushless ESCs perform even with the minor reversing problem. Hope you get it sorted.
1 year ago by jbkiwi
HMS BRAVE BORDERER
After completing the cowl, turned to the rear structure covering the gas turbine and other engine spaces. This can readily be made from styrene sheet. The sides and top were cut out, reinforced with “L” shaped angle and fitted together with CA glue. No particular challenges, other than determining where the various section
s occur. Luckily had two different sets of plans to compare, so the nuances could be established.
It was not until the rear structure was fitted into the cowl, the assembly fitted to the removable deck and placed on the hull, realized just how important this milestone was. Once everything is firmly located the accuracy of build becomes readily apparent. Any inaccuracies show up as an obvious misalignment.
Was able to check the alignments and squareness using eye, rules, squares and a spirit level and was pleased with the outcome. A subtle sanding of about .020” off the base of one side of the superstructure and everything became square, parallel and correctly aligned. Quite a relief!
Have always stressed the importance of accuracy throughout a build. This supported that recommendation.
Once the superstructure was completed realized my plan to lift the deck off to gain access to the electrical control switches was impractical. Have thus cut a small access hole in the rear deck to facilitate access. Still undecided how to best disguise the hole, but at least access is now relatively easy.
From now on, until the test program can be continued on the water, will add detail to the model. Doubt there will be much to describe is that of interest, or that has not been covered by others.
Will continue this blog once there is anything significant to report.
In the meantime, best wishes for Christmas and 2019,
1 year ago by RHBaker
Not happy to find that 2 of the frames are not the correct shape.
I've added a scan of the frames. There should be an even change of spacing of the frame profiles. I think in shipbuilding terms they call it 'fair'. You can see there is not an even
at frames 12 and 52.
2 years ago by steve-d
BRAVE BORDERER - BRUSHLESS SUMMARY
Although have modeling experience, all my earlier vessels used brushed motors. This was my first brushless. The model is now running well, but thought, for the benefit of others considering this
to summarize my experiences.
Must stress the performance of a brushless motor is incredible when compared to a similar sized brushed; for a vessel such as this they are almost obligatory. They are worth the trouble!
Had been advised that the best powertrain installation for a 37” Brave Borderer is either a single or twin screws, not three. This was good advice! Much heartache could have been avoided with a single screw installation. Unfortunately, that is not the correct layout for a scale builder.
Tried three major powertrain iterations, with several variations within each group. All motors are 28mm O/D :
1) The original installation used 3 x 4600kV inrunner motors with 30 A ESCs. Had bought these items used. The motors were too fast and had little torque. The ESCs also did not have adequate capacity. The result was erratic performance, a high fuse failure rate and the eventual failure of an ESC and motor
2) First upgrade was to 2 x 2400kV inrunner motors, using 50A capacity ESCs. The centre shaft was fitted with a brushed motor. This combination did work, although suffered greatly from motor “squeal” and “stutter”. Eventually a motor burnt out and failed. Picture #2
3) Upgrade two: retained the 50 A ESCs, with 2 x 2600 kV outrunner motors, again with the brushed inner shaft motor. Reprogrammed the ESCs to soft start parameters. Much better, performance and reliability can now be considered acceptable. The squeal and stutter are largely corrected it has justified the challenges of getting here. Picture #3
Have tried both 2 and 3S Li-Po batteries, suggest use the minimum voltage needed to achieve the desired performance. Higher voltages translate into faster response and performance, but with less control modulation. The model can be easily overpowered.
In summary, from my experience. For a marine application; chose low (under 2000kV) kV rating motors with an outrunner layout wherever possible (produce more torque than inrunners). Use ESCs with a ratings comfortably in excess of the motor ratings, fit fuses to supplement any ESC protections. Ensure the ESCs are programmed to “soft start” characteristics. Also, the obvious check of making sure shaft alignment is correct is even more important with the higher speed capability of brushless motors. in spite of the trails, cost and tribulations of getting here. Have enjoyed the challenge and the end result does justify the means.
Also, do not finally fit the deck until you are satisfied with the performance. Making the changes described with limited access would have been very difficult and frustrating.
2 years ago by RHBaker
I think that if you are considering changing to LiPo's then it is worth the complete
and also move to brushless motors and appropriate speed controllers. However if you don't wish to go to the expense involved in such a move an appropriate battery size in Lipo would be 7.4v, the higher the capacity in mah will only increase the an mount of time it will last. I think the performance will prove to be exciting.
2 years ago by Flack
Before the funnel could be installed wanted to fit a working radar scanner, navigation lights and the batteries. Decided to use sub C NIMH batteries in plastic holders, they should have the target endurance and provide some ballast.
Fitted two sets of 4 cells, one at the forward end of the superstructure and the other at the rear, both at keel level. These were inserted into wooden battery trays to hold them in place. A dry test run showed a full speed motor run time well exceeding the hour target, so will try on water. Also took the opportunity to fit the Rx and then adjust the rudder before finishing off the wiring.
Both the navigation lights (LEDs) and the radar scanner work. The radar is driven by a servo with the potentiometer removed and a magnetic drive shaft run up through the superstructure from below the deck. The motor requires about 9 volts to run at what would seem to be something approximating to scale speed; fitted a voltage reducer to allow the lights and the radar to work on less than 6 volts. The mast lights are to be installed in a separate circuit after the masts are added.
As I get more into the detail it is evident the GA drawing and the photographs of the vessel in service differ. Fortunately the component locations seem consistent, although the equipment is not. This most apparent in the hold ventilators. The GA shows the standard cowl vents, but the photographs show a mixture between an vertically squeezed oval vent (which am advised is more typically German) and ventilator columns with cylindrical caps.
The column style vents with cylindrical caps were easily made from two different sizes of styrene tube with the cap tops made from styrene offcuts.
The squeezed oval style vents were more difficult. Broke them down into the major parts of the cylindrical vertical tube and, from a larger tube cut a small ring and filed one end to straddle the tube once it had been squeezed oval. Glued it into place whilst restrained in a small hand vice. Once set, removed and sanded the the two to give a smooth
, closing the rear aperture off with styrene offcuts. Then resorted to wood filler, filed down to give a smooth, oval vent.
2 years ago by RHBaker
As the superstructure rose in height it confirmed a suspicion that had been growing for some time. in spite of the copious checks during construction, the leading edge of the bow was twisted slightly by about 3/32” towards starboard at it's base. Not sure how this developed, can only guess there was a slight misalignment during the original modifications that eventually grew to become clearly visible.
It was the kind of defect only discernible to a careful observer - or me! initially hoped to avoid corrective action, but the superstructure build seemed to emphasis the twist. The model is now looking quite good; it would be a pity to compromise it with an elementary, but fundamental, issue such as this.
After many measurements, including using spirit levels and squares, decided to cut the trusty bow coat hangar loose, reposition it carefully laterally and then epoxy into place. The longitudinal shape was fine.
The pictures show the twist, the cut and then the amount of reposition required. Reconstruction followed the original bow addition procedure. There was a lot of sanding required on the starboard side of the bow to realign the bow and hull
. Fortunately, this was limited to the addition area, so neither the mechanical nor water sealed qualities of the original Velarde hull have been compromised.
After repainting and finishing, all looked well, as shown in the final picture. Concluded this repair was indeed worth the effort. The problem would have been exaggerated in my mind to spoil my enjoyment and then pride in the model.
Glass fibre is remarkably forgiving and there should be no reluctance to embark on such modifications when necessary.
3 years ago by RHBaker
The only remaining area requiring significant rework was the bow. Decided now to concentrate on getting the shape and dimensions correct. Made a template from a steel wire coat hangar, shaped to follow the Teakwood bow profile. Cut a mating recess in the upper bow and bulwark, fitted the template into it using CA glue. Once fitted and relatively rigid, cut a piece of styrene to fit into the space between the hull and the template. Epoxied the styrene into place at both the template and to original Velarde hull bow profile. This gave a nice looking bow from the side elevation, one that is also strong. Unfortunately, when viewed from the underside, the usual nice smooth water entry is not apparent.
Had two ideas to attempt to blend the bow into the hull sides properly. The first was to cover this
area with thin styrene and then feather it into the bow and the hull. The second was to use the modelers secret weapon, wood filler and do the same. After either approach planned to cover the whole area in thin glass-fibre cloth and sand down until smooth.
Mocked up the styrene installation and decided to abandon the idea. The styrene makes the bow
bulky, it also became quite clumsy around the upper area.
Thought would try the wood filler approach instead. Shaped the rough filler with sand paper, it worked out relatively easily as it required little rubbing down. The modification worked out well and the bow looks satisfactory from both the side and underside.
Decided also to replace the pulley drive arrangement with a toothed belt system. Have never tried this before and, as a friend of mine had a selection of belts and pulleys, thought would be useful experience to try it.
One question perhaps somebody can help me with – what colour was the deck on this vessel? All my pictures showing the deck are in black and white!
3 years ago by RHBaker
PS: I noticed that the waterline (
yellow to red) follows the wave line!
Small tip: to accurately set the true waterline and keep it straight set the hull up on the building board dead level and vertical according to the plan. Use spirit level to check port / starboard for horizontal! (I.e. athwartships in marine jargon!)
Make a small right angled jig to hold a soft lead pencil (or simply use a small try square). Attach the pencil to the jig / try square at the waterline height from keel according to plan. Then just trundle round the hull marking the WL with the pencil point.
Tip 2: use narrow (ca 10mm) Tamiya masking tape (from the plastic magic department) to mask off the line itself. The rest can be masked as usual with cheapo decorator's masking tape and newspaper. Spray away to your heart's content. The Tamiya tape gives a wonderful clean line with no paint creep.
Please don't be offended, nobody's perfect and I'm still in awe of your woodwork! 👍 cheers Doug 😎
3 years ago by RNinMunich
Website upgrade coming soon!
Will you be making an anousement as to what time you'll be taking the site offline? also how long will the site be offline? do you have an estimation of time?
Good luck on the
3 years ago by figtree7nts
Website upgrade coming soon!
Progress update. The new website is now 95% ready for launch, a few final tweaks will be needed, but otherwise it's ready to go. The mobile app however, is only 50% ready, visually it's working, but functionally not there yet. I'll be continuing to work on the final parts for the next few days, with the aim to launch everything on Sunday the 1st! it's been a busy Christmas break for me, this website update has consumed many hours, but hopefully it'll all be worth it 😊
The website will be down for a few hours on Sunday while I copy everything across.
@Onetenor, live chat was once part of this website, but it was removed again for a few reasons. By nature they're temporary, if knowledge is shared within them, they're lost in time. They also can't be moderated and are unfortunately prone to misuse.
Another update from an early announcement too; I have done lots of work on response posts, so I'm pleased to say, it'll be possible to include as many photos/files as you wish in responses too! Also, all posts will be modifiable, attachments included, and can be deleted as well.
You'll see all changes when the website goes live on Sunday. I'm still hoping for a seamless
. Let's see!
Thanks everyone for your support.
3 years ago by Fireboat
DAMEN STAN 4207
From the Damen sheer, lines and section drawings developed building plans.
Decided to use a traditional 'plank & frame' construction style for the hull, which should suite both the hard chine design and help minimize weight.
Most readers are familiar with this type of construction, so in future will only describe features introduced to recognize specific hull design details or those added to achieve lightness with a low centre of gravity.
The basic framework was straightforward; decided to build the hull frame and then fit the sheathing (between keel and chine) first. This would create a definite hull form where all the electrical equipment could be trial positioned and installed, but still allow reasonable access. The upper planking (from chine to deck) will be fitted once this is complete.
The Daman section and sheer plans show only a limited number of sections, in the interest of lightness, decided to build the hull framework using only bulkheads corresponding to each section. if the hull proved flimsy these could easily be increased.
Due to the shape of the keel laminated the rear portion using 1/8' ply and wood strips. As the hull has a definite sharper keel section towards the bow, eliminated the wood strips to achieve this.
Used ¼' sq. bass wood strip for the deck level and chine strips and a rudimentary stiffness check of the frame showed a satisfactory result. The limited number of sections is probably assisted by the hull shape which is has a considerable length to beam ratio, with sections
ing smoothly. Tried to use ¼' balsa strips for the deck strips but found they were too brittle, even when soaked in ammonia. Decided the potential weigh saving was not worth the trouble and reverted to basswood.
All the hull section and keel assembly was fabricated on a building board with cutouts corresponding to the section positions to locate the bulkheads and ensure squareness.
4 years ago by RHBaker
The Perkasa has a fairly complicated front end - nothing like as simple as the Fireboat - and
s from the planar shapes of the main plywood skins to a sharply curved, complicated shape which will eventually be carved from balsa blocks. The
starts with narrow strips of ply which the instructions say to butt joint and glue together. I have added 1mm ply strips behind each of these butt joints to add reinforcing but also to make sure they join together without 'steps' in height. Thoughout this construction I've also added 1/4" square reinforcing wherever I can.
6 years ago by Lauriem
Fire Boat 34'' Laser cut Window kits
How long ago was it that you were promised one of our kits, KitShack has gone through a
al period recently so your messages may of been missed. All our kits are cut on a CNC machine and are cut to order currently and would be happy to provide you with one. We have a website up and running now, you can check this out at www.kitshackmodels.com
7 years ago by KitShackModels
HI From Munich
I too, am new to the site altho I have been building for some time. Like you I have built a lot of model aircraft, and have
ed into boating. I guess I was tired of picking up pieces, and the expense.
I have several scale kits to build (Colin Archer 414 is one), but I think with the never ending wind here in Texas a RC land sailer would be fun. Maybe something solar %uD83D%uDE0E!
One resource for RC sets, parts, fittings, building materials, kits, tools,etc., is Tower Hobbies.com. I know that they do ship world wide. Dumas Boats has a variety of fittings for most any scale. For LED lighting I found a web site MiniInTheBox, and still exploring what it has to offer.
I have traveled quite a bit, but I have not made it to Germany, or GB. Still on my "bucket list".
How is your boat project progressing?
7 years ago by CaptLarry
Thanks for your message. I'm going to install a new prop shaft anyway. How far away from the rudder to you reckon the prop should sit?
HI mate, back again from the colony, somebody spoke of spray rails should be built on your model already , well I do not presume upon prior builders always doing it right. There should be say 3/16 by 3/16 inch wooden strips at the chine where the side skins and lower hull sheets meet. These are what I referred to as helping in lift . The hull skin should flare at the bottom of the spray rail so that the base of the hull is a bit more in surface area ans try to keep the spray rail the 3/16 inch width towards the bow as this Imparts the larger lifting area at the
point where the water recedes as the hull lifts higher as speed increases and the little extra surface area helps SO much in lift. Most modellers scrape this area of the spray rail down thin to flare with the hull. it is a choice between looks and performance. You can carefully re glue and reshape wooden spray rails as I have done it on my large seaplane tender ( scale I built at about 49 inches or so) to Improve lift AFTER it was finished and running. I just sanded the spray rail back and reshaped and flared extra strips and pegged them with wooden dowels for strength after glueing and redid them and on my Fast Patrol Boat, the old Veron 56 inch). So it all helps even to modify the model that bit extra, after finishing, after running in, after you learn something new!
Rudder distance from the prop? Er, well a hard one to answer precisely say, the latter part of the prop is a 1/4 inch away from the leading edge of the rudder. ALSO if you reduce the 'front section' of the rudder, so that all the
'meat' is abaft the pivot post, is not a good idea as rudders need a bit of meat ( rudder area) ahead of the post to actually ' help' the rudder to turn as it acts as a forward lever to assist the latter area to turn on the pivot. Even vertical tail fins of aircraft (not all) had/have some forward fin area ahead of the pivot point. A lot of heavy bombers of WW2 design and a lot of light planes designed and built since. Remember water and air can exhibit similar behaviors despite differing densities. Hope this helps a bit more, See ya Lyle.
10 years ago by Lyle
It would be very difficult to redraw a single part such as a bulkhead from a set of plans and expect it to be a dimensionally exact replacement.
Most plans are old and have suffered from paper stretch, print and scan distorsion. The best thing really is to re-do the whole plans, that way you will be able to verify the smooth
/ curves from one bulkhead to the next. That way you won't suffer any unexpected bumps / dips. Here is a copy of my work in progress. I'm still working on the forward cabin. This, not the bulkheads is the tricky bit as the front window frames are curved top and bottom.
Once I'm happy with the overall shape I will disect it and construct the details. At the moment my model is drawn in mm for the 34" version. I will save it before I add the section thickness'es so that it can be scaled up or down.
A big concern is that I still don't have a quote for the fittings. I have contacted a name suggested to me but still await to hear the price.