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    Response
    Motor, mount & prop-shaft.
    How does an outrunner fare with heat when closed in? The one you are using is goint to be even more closed in as it has a box built round it. I have been reluctant with an outrunner in a hull for this reason. I have a Miss Geico with an inrunner which is fine as it has a
    water jacket
    .
    2 years ago by BOATSHED
    Blog
    Vintage Model Works 46'' RAF Crash Tender
    Here's the history bit so pay attention... Many years ago as a boy in the fifth year of my north London secondary school, circa 1971, our woodwork class was given the option to make something of our own choice. Having mastered the majority of joints, wood turning, finishing techniques and the making of table lamps, stools and bookshelves etc. this seemed a good idea, so myself and a fellow classmate and model making chum asked if we could construct a model boat. The teacher, on hearing that it was to be from a kit and not from scratch was a little surprised but agreed. So my friend and I jointly invested about 20 quid in an Aerokits 34.5 inch RAF Crash Tender from Blunts' model shop in Mill Hill (long since gone like many others) and we set about construction during lesson time and sometimes at break times. I recall we used "Cascamite" to glue it all together on the advice of the woodwork teacher because neither 'Scotch' glue nor PVA was suited to marine construction. Good progress was made over the course of our last year at school but it was never fully completed, only requiring painting, running gear and detailing. My friend decided that he needed to withdraw from the project as he was enrolling in a college away from home to study for a career in the merchant navy and I agreed to buy out his share and continue with the project. And so it was that I carried on with the painting and installing the running gear which consisted of a 1.5 cc marine diesel engine, water pickup, prop shaft and rudder and a MacGregor radio system with a stick for steering and a single button for speed control. The engine and radio came from Michael's Models in Finchley (also long gone) for Β£20 as my elder brother, who had started a Saturday job there, was able to get a staff discount for me. The diesel engine was noisy and smelly and a pig to start with a leather thong around the flywheel and I decided to abandon this means of propulsion (I foolishly ran it for slightly too long 'dry' and melted the soldering around the brass
    water jacket
    !). By now I had graduated from my part time job in Woolies to an engineering apprentice with Post Office Telephones and my new income of 20 quid per week could support my modelling and electronics hobbies after my contribution to the household for my keep. So off to the model shop to buy a Taycol Supermarine electric motor, two 12v volt lead acid batteries and a suitable charger. The diesel came out and was sold on Exchange & Mart and the mount and coupling re-made to accommodate the new Taycol motor. What an improvement that was! I can't remember now what speed controller or servo I used but whatever it was did the job, and it went like the clappers on Friary Park boating lake (also long since gone) even though the radio control system was a bit crude with the non-proportional steering and 'blip' throttle control. The boating took a back seat when I acquired my driving licence and my first car (a rusty old Cortina Mk 1) and I also got involved in sound recording for radio. I decided to sell the boat and bits for Β£60 through Exchange & Mart and bought an Akai 4000DS tape recorder and a 'Chilton' audio mixer, built a home studio and along with a good mate of mine started making radio commercials for the new commercial radio stations including London's Capital Radio. We even won a 'Campaign' advertising award for one of our efforts! And so after several years as a 'phone engineer I moved into professional recording for A/V and broadcast and then into TV production. Fast forward to today. Semi-retired with grand kids and with more free time on my hands I still had an interest in model making so in Jan 2016 went to the Model Engineer exhibition at nearby 'Ally Pally'. It was there that I saw an RAF crash tender just like the one I built all those years ago and got into conversation with the chap on the stand. This re-ignited my model making interests and I researched the hobby and that model in particular.
    5 years ago by robbob
    Directory
    (Other) Vosper
    I always liked the sound of a fourstroke engine so I thought I would replace the brushless motor in this boat with an aircraft Os 40fs which I converted with a water cooling jacket that I turned up on my lathe. I also made a reverse gearbox with a clutch, the gearbox is operated by a servo and works well, I also fitted a water pump so could still cool the engine while ticking over stationary, boat has been weathered and is fitted with lights and a searchlight that swivels around operated by another servo, there is also a cooling fan above the engine just to help keep things cool. (Motor: Os 40 fourstroke) (10/10)
    2 years ago by Biscuit
    Response
    20th Scale ELCO 80ft PT boat part 9
    I would check out the water cooled back plates for the out- runners as they will possibly run real hot if at all loaded up without cooling, unless you have fans like aircraft propellers (even then and in open air they still get hot!) I would look at this seriously to avoid cooking your motors. Hobby King usually has various cooling parts, or EBay, Aliexpress, Banggood etc. Bit late now I suppose, but water cooled in-runners (around 2000kv 28mm diam) are a better idea for boats. You can buy in-runners and
    water jacket
    s to fit them as I did but they need flushing after use with CRC or similar to avoid rust, (I'll be copper tube wrapping the next lot, then there are no worries)
    3 years ago by jbkiwi
    Response
    BRAVE BORDERER
    If you are using 2 ESCs/BEC/UBECs with 2 plugged into 1 receiver you should remove the red wire from one of the plugs and tape it back to the lead, as both plugged in will possibly supply too much voltage for the receiver (you are getting double the voltage from 2 different sources) and this can cause the ESC to stutter . You should have no problems with Brushless out-runner motors as with the correct match with the ESC they should be as smooth as brushed. I have dual 2000kv 28/45 in-runners (with
    water jacket
    s) and twin ESCs and 2 sound units using 1 receiver in my 64ft ASR model with no problems regarding proportional control (fwd or rev). I had a 28mm O/R in a Maiami ASR and it would crawl along (but the high noise was ear wrecking so have changed it back to brushed for now. I do have a similar slight high pitched squeal at certain speeds on one motor and this may be caused by the particular motor not 'syncing'properly with the ESC (Chinese cheap ESCs and HobbyKing /made in china motors) but short of changing that motor and ESC I am just putting up with it for now. The high pitched sync noise is fairly common and sometimes not fixable, (a number of my larger planes do it and its audible from 100m away (also amplified by a hull,-nice sound box). it can depend on the way a particular motor is wound (no 2 are identical) or even magnet placement/timing, as the may be hand wound by 2 very nice Chinese ladies at different ends of a bench ( just read some of the Hobby King motor reviews ) You could try changing the frequency on the ESC if it has that option as a higher motor Kv sometimes requires a higher frequency. Also make sure your ESC is set to the correct battery cell count. if it has an auto setting that should usually work best for general applications unless you are running fancy motors. Regarding interference, make sure you keep your aerial as far as poss from the motors and ESCs (even on 2.4 - I put mine right up in the bow) and there should be no problems. I have had 2 twin engined boats (my MTB & ASR) 1 brushed and 1 brushless running side by side 10" apart using the same radio for both (same type of Rec in each boat) with no problems at all. The bow down is probably prop shaft angle (the shallower the better) but if you are using counter rotating props you could try swapping props (inward rotation to outward) and motor rotation to see if it makes a difference. Also with 2800Kv motors you should be using small props (around 28-30mm diam 3 blade) as these motors are made to rev) as on a 2s battery they will be turning at around 20,000 dry and perhaps 18,000 wet (depending on prop) and if you load them too much they will cook with no cooling (assuming they are around 28mm dia ?) Only other thought - silicone couplings will squeal real loud if they slip.
    3 years ago by jbkiwi
    Forum
    EarlyVosper M.T.B by Simplas
    Hi Onetenor Fuji 15 was a good glow engine which I don't think it is manufactured any more. Aero version max B.H.P was just below .40 when tested. if it was in a model aircraft it would have been around .20 to .25 depending on prop size which was good then for a small capacity glowplug . Marine versions when on the water put out a little less and the water cooled jacket was never as efficient as the finned cylinder jacket of the aero version. My two Aerokits boats, the Sea Commander and the Crash Tender are powered by single Speed 600 motors running on either 8.4 or 9.6 volt Ni Mh batteries. Performance is equal to that of marine diesel power such as the 2.46 Ed Racer and D.C 2.46 Rapier, the latter I used to watch in the fast steering events in the early 1960s at Fleetwood and Coronation Park in Crosby just outside Liverpool. Taycol powered versions would be obviously slower due to the additional weight were far more reliable and you did not have to put up with injuries from excessive use of a starting cord with kids watching and "extracting the urine" shouting "why wont it go mister". Boaty
    3 years ago by boaty
    Forum
    Elaine motor update/assembly pictures
    Ah, now it's clean, it's easier to see. A Mills 1.3 Mk 2. A very good and much sought after engine. Much copied too! The
    water jacket
    is clearly an amateur jobbie. Not sure if Mills made a flywheel for marine use. Possibly for use on small tethered hydros and cars. The engine is worth more than all the rest of the boat put together! Nice job on the clean up. You could repair those mounting lugs with some of that aluminium solder I referred to recently. Cheers, Martin
    3 years ago by Westquay
    Forum
    ELAINE, MOTOR CLEAN UP.
    Well here it is, 10.35mm bore with 16.19mm stroke. The flywheel is 41mm dia and 12.5mm thick weighing in at 117gms. As you can see from the pictures it was a pain to strip, but as I was desoldering the
    water jacket
    the head came loose, so I unscrewed it. Then carefully stripped the rest and cleaned each piece, finally returned to the
    water jacket
    , I had to remove the outer sleeve then cut the screws to remove the top and bottom discs. Next I removed all the crap that was stuck in the fins and cleaned the cylinder head jacket. Finally re-assembled. All that work and still don't have any idea of the maker. There is a number on one of the mounting webs 685, on the other side is a number 2. But the Web is broken. The flywheel has RMA stamped on it and a letter J above it. So mateys what's the verdict. And god alone knows if I am able to rebuild the
    water jacket
    . Cheers Colin.
    3 years ago by Colin H
    Forum
    ELAINE, MOTOR CLEAN UP.
    The fins look like they haven't been touched, the home made
    water jacket
    is basically 2 brass washers with 4 screws clamping them tight to the alloy cylinder head, then a copper wrap around soldered on with 2 pipes soldered into the wrap. The fins were full of baked sludge, but luckily cleaned up with a fine needle and small swede brush. Cheers Colin.
    3 years ago by Colin H
    Forum
    ELAINE, MOTOR CLEAN UP.
    Hugely long stroke, Colin and I've never seen such a long piston. I am truly astonished that you got even a fart out of it, much less a run. I'm assuming it was built as a marine engine or would you say the finned barrel of an aero engine has been turned down to fit the
    water jacket
    ? A very large shouldered top to the crankcase. it really is a mystery. I can only suggest home made. Martin Edited to say it's 1.36 cc., so a bit of a nipper.
    3 years ago by Westquay
    Forum
    Launch ELAINE,
    Picked this up from local antique shop, the shop owner said it was from a house clearance and made in the 1940's. It needs a lot of work to be done to bring it back to life, look at the photos and see if any of you can help, as I haven't seen any control system like it. I think the motor is a modified plane engine but the
    water jacket
    will have to be destroyed to find out. So any thoughts on the challenge ahead would be good to hear. Cheers Colin.
    3 years ago by Colin H
    Forum
    Launch ELAINE,
    Thought U were goin' to hit the hay a while ago John!? πŸ˜‰ Greetings from one model fan and insomniac to anotherπŸ‘ BTW agree with your comments about the
    water jacket
    . Sweat the screws out and the rest should be relatively easy. "In this the most perfect of all possible worlds"! Cheers All, Doug 😎 BTW: TELL me about those relays! For a year or so back in the early 70s I used to service and calibrate the radiation monitors at various nuclear research / power generation sites around England. The detectors tripped a relay via appropriate drivers, which then triggered the unit Nixie tube, etc, etc. My job was mainly cleaning and setting the relays and doing a calibration against 'normal' background count, cosmic radiation etc. To reassure folks; during the whole year - year and a half I never ever saw a count above background! But then - that was 46 years ago 😲
    3 years ago by RNinMunich
    Forum
    Launch ELAINE,
    Thanks Doug, have just had a scout round the Web, from what I can see on my engine it's more likely to be a Mills. But without removing the
    water jacket
    and exhaust covers I've no idea. Cheers Colin.
    3 years ago by Colin H
    Forum
    Launch ELAINE,
    Colin, it could be that the jacket is just that, a coat, a covering that allows some water to take conductive heat away. One hopes that it isn't allowing water to touch the actual motor or grot will be your future! The way the jacket is made may give you an idea of how it operates and how best to get it apart. As it's copper, it'll only be soft soldered I would think judging by a lot of grey clag around! Worth doing though since clearly it's a runner, despite all the muck on it. But I would invest in some proper model diesel fuel, if you can justify the cost! Then you shouldn't get those 4" flames out of the stubs! Cheers, Martin
    3 years ago by Westquay
    Forum
    Launch ELAINE,
    Well Martin, whoever built the
    water jacket
    didn't think it was necessary to be able to strip the motor, but I've been thinking about it and have decided to try and get the jacket off so that I can resurrect the poor wee beast, at least I'll know what engine it is. Usually the tick over was set at about 1500revs and the peek was about 2700/3000. I think that would be a tad too quick for a boat the prop would be cavitating at that speed. The boat is only 27 1/2" LOA with an 8"beam. Cheers Colin.
    3 years ago by Colin H
    Forum
    Launch ELAINE,
    Fantastic stuff, Colin. if you can get that ancient engine to run on diesel from your car plus Methanol, you could get that kitchen nozzle going! Where did you just get some methanol from? I'd say the engine is something like an old ED Competition Special or similar with a very home made
    water jacket
    and even more home made exhaust wrapper, requiring tubes to be added to the 2 stubs and led to the stern or either side. Doug's yer man for anything lecktrickal. is there actually anything of the original RC in there apart from that superb kitchen nozzle affair, which deserves to be preserved all on it's own. Control will have been vestigial at best as the engine has no throttle and the nozzle arrangement will not have had any level of proportionality to it. it will, at best, have been push the button and see where the boat ended up, knowing it could, at a a pinch, be brought back to where it started. At one time all RC was like that. My own REP set was left,centre, right, centre, etc. A wonderful throwback that must be preserved. I wish my local junk shops had stuff like that! Cheers, Martin
    3 years ago by Westquay
    Forum
    What is the optimum prop shaft angle?
    This is a Norstar Kingfisher design. I want to place the motor beneath the rear hatch where the batteries sat. The CG was far to forward and this is a heavy model so it never ran very well. the motors ran hot even with a
    water jacket
    . I am moving the motor back, using a shortened prop shaft ,but what shaft angle will produce the optimum performance? Ron
    3 years ago by Ron
    Blog
    Painted outside
    Finish painting and adding some stickers, and a couple of pictures of the real thing. Fitted Motor in a water cooled jacket and motor mount. The motor is a 3650 and is rated as 3060kv Max Power: 1300W Max Voltage: 19V Max Amps: 68A Shaft Diameter: 3.2mm Shaft Length: 15mm Connector: 5.0mm Banana Connector Net Weight: 181g Servo fitted sideways via rubber bellows to external rudder fixed to transom.
    3 years ago by CB90
    Forum
    Brushless motor selection
    MY #1 CHOICE WOULD BE A NEU MOTOR . NEU MOTORS ARE A BIT COSTLY BUT HOLD A LOT OF RECORDS . LEOPARD MOTORS ARE NICE TOO .BOTH MOTORS HAVE
    water jacket
    S FOR THEM . I PUT A NEW 1515 IN A 27" CATAMARAN RUNNING 4S AND GOT 68 MPH ON THE GPS. ALSO I HAVE AN OLD DUMAS SKI DADDLE 36" RUNNING A LEOPARD LBP3674 - 2650KV WITH 3S AND GET ABOUT 40 MPH . I AM NOW WORKING ON A 36" GENISIS CAT WITH TWO LEOPARDS . PERFORMANCE TO BE SEEN !!!! I HOPE THIS HELPS YOU OUT SOME .
    3 years ago by ARTH
    Blog
    Paint job
    Installed hardware used brushless 2860 4050kv motor with water-cooled mount and jacket, kept prop-shaft at a low angle. It drives really well to the extent that its too good to race so I have started again with another boat for racing.
    3 years ago by CB90
    Forum
    It's a sad day!.
    Yep, built mine with my Dad, a 34" Crash Tender. We used the then new PVA glue and to be honest, 54 years later it still holds well and is waterproof. I really must finish it some day! I confess I never had an IC engine in a boat, but I've always had an ED Racer with
    water jacket
    and big brass flywheel. Still have it on my shelf with others, but I could never get the buggers to start! So Dad made sure the Crash Tender had a good electric motor when he spoiled me with it all for my 11th Christmas. I had REP single channel R/C and a Taycol Supermarine motor and Taycol coupling. That's what's in it and will stay in it. Alas the R/C gear was stolen. I could replicate the case, but there just ain't the time for all these things, so an old Mini Hex 1970s Propo set will go in it as a classic curio. I used it for years with the REP on the oyster ponds at Paglesham. Left, centre, right, centre, wiggle right, wiggle right and so on. The Taycol ate batteries! Martin
    3 years ago by Westquay
    Forum
    It's a sad day!.
    If you see on my list above after the engine size if a D was noted its diesel and all these engines were for boat use and water cooled. However my father did make any parts needed so conversion to water cooling jacket on an engine was no problem if needed. Stephen.
    3 years ago by Novagsi0
    Blog
    H.M.S. BRAVE BORDERER
    From the brief pool test, had decided that the motors could be susceptible to overheating, so connected up the
    water jacket
    cooling system and powered it with a small pump. Did not leave enough space to fit a scoop behind a propeller anyway, but prefer the positive action of a pump though. From feeling the ESCs, was also concerned they could overheat within a confined space such as the hull. Mounted a couple of small fans in a bridge structure above the ESCs, along with the ESC switches. Not sure either of these cooling modifications are really required, but erred on the side of caution. Final weight of the hull, with all electrics (apart from battery) comes to 5.05 lbs. Looks like will not achieve the target weight of 6 lbs, but am hopeful will be able to get close to it.. Built the deck up with gun mount bases and a removable decking over the engine area. This limits access to the internals; so will not fit it permanently until the test program is complete and all modifications incorporated. Have now reached a point where any further work will be to start finishing the model, unless drivetrain modifications are required. Have thus decided to leave it until after the first open water test date. This will be in late May as am away until then.
    3 years ago by RHBaker
    Response
    H.M.S. BRAVE BORDERER
    Thanks for your advice. Guess am stuck with the
    water jacket
    style now, will see how they work. Was intrigued by these rubber ones though, they have an internal scroll which defines the water path. Rather like a coil. Intend to make the small ESC wire mods you and Doug recommend. Thanks
    3 years ago by RHBaker
    Response
    H.M.S. BRAVE BORDERER
    Hi Rowen, I have had water cooling on all my patrol boats running at 12Volts, whether brushed or now brushless. For the brushed motors I have used aluminium tube coils with water pickups between the propellers and rudders. I did try
    water jacket
    s a couple of times but found too much friction loss and therefore lack of flow. For the newer brushless outrunners I use a brass tube soldered to a brass plate across the front of the motor fitted between it and motor mounting bracket. I agree with Doug with regards to the disconnection of the red wires on the ESC's. This is now common practice, especially if you have an external receiver battery.
    3 years ago by reilly4
    Blog
    H.M.S. BRAVE BORDERER
    Once the rudder, propeller and shafts were installed, the position of the motors could be established. A light aluminium bracket to hold all three was fabricated and bonded to the hull. Due to the high speed capability of the brushless motors, particular attention was paid to alignment. Also kept to the shortest prop. shafts that could be fitted to avoid whipping. Although the motor type might change, whatever is best will require a sound electrical installation as the current requirements for each brushless motor could reach 50 Amps. Wired each motor and ESC separately with its own dedicated fuse to give the maximum system protection. There is an extra fuse section allocated for auxiliary circuits, such as a cooling water pump and lights. Will try the original planned layout of 3 x 2835 motors with 30mm propellers and a 2S Li-Po battery first. Am hoping the reduced voltage will also make these motors more tractable. For the test program the three ESCs will be each controlled from an individual Rx channel. Once the final layout is determined, a more sophisticated and flexible control system can be installed. To minimize ballast, particularly around the stern, the battery will be housed as far into the bow as possible. After the test runs the final battery type, size and location can be established. To assess performance, hope to try both 2 and 3S Li-Po batteries. Planning to reduce heat build up by fitting cooling
    water jacket
    s to the motors, these are easiest to instal at this stage so the wiring or mounts are not disturbed in the future. Have not decided the layout for the water circuit yet, but this easily can be added later. All that is needed now is the ice to melt off our local lakes so tests can commence.
    3 years ago by RHBaker
    Directory
    (Racing Boat) Interceptor
    Zoom 1 (Interceptor) Mono boat. Built from a Glassfibre hull, brought on Ebay for Β£35 the hull is a slim mono racing type with a self-righting side cabin it runs a 1400W 14V 2958 4200KV Brushless Motor and 29-S Water Cooling Jacket with additional air cooling fan. I did not want to use a flexi drive as high maintenance and prone to failure so the shaft runs via two universal joint one at each end. the propeller is a 38mm copper alloy The ESC is a 200A and water cooled the twin rudders supply separate water one for the motor and one for the ESC. The rudder are positioned to reduce prop-walk and are hinged to prevent damage if hit a object in the water and ride adjustment. Turn fins and trim tabs for ride adjustment were provided by a spares kit for another boat. also foamed and added an inner sealed hatch, a rubber bump strip and safety loop. The Boat is fast and over-powered used at half throttle, may use a 7.4v lipo instead, the self righting works well. 20th April 2018 while running on 11.1v the boat stopped, no response on retrieval it was found that the manufacturers battery connector had melted and the connection lost see later pictures. the battery was made by FLOUREON and was a 35C with 5500mah capacity the 80A fuse had not blown. (Motor: 2958 watercooled) (ESC: Unknown 200A) (8/10)
    3 years ago by CB90
    Forum
    Motor problem
    Fair enough pmdevlin I accept what you are saying, however it started as a motor not being big enough for the size of the propeller and then went on further as the shaft was 4BA not 4mm and I could not locate a smaller prop, a plain brass tube and stainless shaft has been fitted,way back in the 60's when it was first started and as I knew nothing about boats in 2015 when I finished the basic structure, I did not know that it would have been the smart thing to fit a shaft with bearings. So this is the way I am going to go, I have ordered the 850 brush motor and the adapter to fit the motor shaft to my red coupling,this I have been assured will be more than big enough to drive the prop without getting hot or needing a
    water jacket
    , if this is the case when I fit it and sail it, then result, if not I will then have to go down the path that you suggest, I have nothing to lose trying the larger motor and everything to gain if it works. By the way the batteries are all new
    3 years ago by RichardSReade
    Forum
    Motor problem
    I looked at the Cornwall model site and saw that, what i have decided to do is to leave the two Ni cad batteries in situ and I have weighed the rear/mid section lead weight and it is just 56 grams heavier than the 12 volt 7 amp/h lead acid alarm battery so I will use the 12 volt battery and ditch the lead, the weight of the boat will be the same, I also trimmed the lead at the front end so the bow will come up a fraction more. I have taken the prop of and measured it to be a 55mm, so I am going to fit the water intake, hopefully with some advice from the forum "techys"as to the position, in the photos this is where I can fit it so it is out of the way of the rudder and prop.what do you reckon, I can then get a suitable motor with a
    water jacket
    which will be happy to run on 12 volt with enough power not to get hot turning a 45 to 50 mm two blade "x" prop, as suggested by pmdevlin, I may get the Lloydsman up and running as all that needs is dusting of and batteries charging up, (two 12 volt 7amp/h in parallel) and the receiver from the commander fitted although I have not floated it I bought it as a complete working model in 2015, so it is about time it came out of dry dock, also I can look to repairing the rigging and finishing the Odessy Yacht I bought at the same time as the Llyodsman also in dry dock.
    3 years ago by RichardSReade
    Forum
    Motor problem
    Thank you gents, I will get a bigger motor and reduce the prop size as I do not want it any faster than it is, also a smaller prop as everyone has said will reduce the power drained from the battery, I have a water scoop and tubing so will be fitting that today and will fit a
    water jacket
    around the motor, also I am thinking weighing the lead weight fitted in the compartment behind the motor and replace some or all of it and fit a 12 volt 7 amph sealed lead acid battery, presumably this will last longer than the present batteries fitted, or will it?
    3 years ago by RichardSReade
    Forum
    Unbekannte Flitze. A very flighty girl
    Allen and Doug I see that you both do not sail with or belong to a model boat sailing club so are sailing mainly on your own. Most model boat clubs will have completed a risk assessment and produced guidance and club rules to protect both the members and public. if the waters are Council owned this can be quite a task and can result in permission being removed if not followed. Waters are not easily found and can be lost because of the actions of one individual. Whilst I can sympathise with the desire to recover a sinking/stopped or sunken model there are ways to do this safely. We have an RC rescue boat but I have also used long poles and fishing rods with lines. We also have waders to allow recovery from near the bank under trees etc as well as a boat and life jackets, if necessary, but not I suggest without having help on shore in case of difficulties. You are of course entitled to risk your own life but this is a hobby for me and I suspect many of our members and I prefer to avoid unnecessary life threatening risks. Dave
    4 years ago by Dave M
    Response
    Red Cat hydroplane
    Hi. The HK controller is an Aquastar 120Amp water cooled which has suffered all of the burn outs and never failed. SKU: 9052000008. The failed motors were all 2848SL 3900kv Brushless inrunner (WaterCooled) SKU:3900-2848SL. I have my doubts about the specifications as their watts and amps do not add up. I have a temperature sensor on the motor sending info back to the TX and usually after a full charge and a fast run it would get to 60Β°C, then I would cool it to 45Β°C before the next run it burnt out at 85Β°C when I wasn't paying attention. The new motor runs at about 45Β°C how ever hard it is pushed. Still using the 120A ESC. The new motor was in the HK sale and I don't think they do it now SKU:S2858-2630. it just happend that the
    water jacket
    for the failed unit fits it.
    4 years ago by SimpleSailor
    Forum
    3d printing
    Here's another I prepared earlier, I found the file for it on Thingiverse, unfortunately the file made a boat 300mm long, so I printed all the parts at 200% sizeπŸ‘ I've got all the running gear for it now except for the
    water jacket
    for the brushless motor, come on China, get your finger out! Cheers Wayne
    4 years ago by Midlife306
    Forum
    Battery problems
    Hi Allan If you had water cooling and it was provided by your pump then it would seem the prop was far to coarse a pitch for you fast motor and very powerful battery which was quite capable of delivering well over 200 amps through the 160 amp ESC. Your comment re the power delivered rather confirms this, and holding a model at full speed to test is only possible for about 5-10 secs max. You need to get a much smaller and less coarse pitch 3 blade prop plus a wattmeter to measure the current to make sure you are no where near the max ESC current. Personal experience suggests this should be less than half the rated Max so say 70 amps for your ESC. Testing should be brief and stopped immediately if the current being taken is above 20-30 amps. Smaller props will reduce the current to an acceptable level and your model will go faster and for longer. As a guide 14 volts at 70 amps will be using 980 watts so you will perhaps appreciate why cooling is necessary. Also at such high currents the wiring from battery to ESC then motor will need to be capable of carrying such high currents. As there are three wires to the motor and the power is pulsed at high frequency they are usually not as heavy as the battery to ESC. Your battery to ESC connectors also need to be capable of high current such as Deans, Euro or bullet type. Having looked on U-tube it does appear that others have had similar experiences with this ESC. The specs say it is capable of running at 14.4 volts so when you buy a replacement I would ask your local store to run your motor with the ESC and your battery to ensure it works OK. if they have a wattmeter ask them to test the open current then also buy the wattmeter and a smaller 3 blade prop of slightly less diameter than that of the motor without the
    water jacket
    . Do a final brief test at home holding the model and see briefly what the wattmeter reads, this will be near the max current draw. if it's too high you need a smaller prop. There are several Perkassa builds on the site and some use brushless with success. if you search you will find details of their power train which may help you choose the best set up. I do hope you will soon have your model speeding round your lake. Dave
    4 years ago by Dave M
    Forum
    Battery problems
    PS Allan, there are several
    water jacket
    s / spiral tubing available for cooling brushed motors, try Hobby King, or just get some alu and silicon tubing and make your own. Apply some heat conducting paste between the jacket or tubing and the motor casing (as used in the electronics industry for mounting power transistors, processor chips etc) available in tubes also in model shop site for a few dollars. Good luck
    4 years ago by RNinMunich
    Forum
    Battery problems
    Hi Allan Was the boat in the water or on the bench? There are several posts online indicating that you cannot run this ESC without water cooling. You did say you needed a separate water cool motor. is it possible the motor or ESC
    water jacket
    s were blocked? Hope you can find a solution Dave
    4 years ago by Dave M
    Forum
    King-Fisher changes made
    Hi Robert, I saw that post when researching this boat, it helped me decide how to continue building the kit. if I do not want to use a water-jacket style motor, is there a motor you would recommend. I have several battery packs; One pack is a 4200 - 7.2 v NIMH The other are two packs both being 2400 - 7.2 NIMH these are with connectors to allow longer run time. Thanks, Ron P.S. I am relatively a new builder.
    4 years ago by Ron
    Forum
    Sea Rover Help
    Hi Simon. The two holes are just so that I could pour some Z-Poxy in after the skins were on, helps seal every thing. The motor is a brushed motor, and I had the
    water jacket
    , so it will be fitted, don't think it will need it though. If I ever change the brushed motor for a brushless set up the water cooling is already there. Alan
    4 years ago by AlanP
    Forum
    Sea Rover Help
    Thanks Alan, your boat looks really nice, why the 2 holes in the fore deck? I have only just started the build I will post some pictures later. I see you have a water cooling jacket on your motor , I will be buying a new motor as the only power sources I have are sails , this is my first motor build. is it worth getting a water cooled motor . Simon.
    4 years ago by simonricho
    Forum
    Brushless
    Hi Brian I am not sure which model you are referring to but your description of period photos suggests it is from the late 1930's and yes they were not a planing hull. Does your model have one or two props? A few pics of the model would help, you can upload by clicking the yellow box to the left of this input panel. Brushless can be a bit daunting at first experience but they are not difficult to use once you are familiar. You will already have seen they have three input wires and these need to be connected to an individual Brushless ESC for each motor. Doesn't matter which wired connect to which socket on the ESC but if your prop spins the wrong way you can swop any two connections to change the directiopn. The kv rating refers to the unloaded speed of the motor for every volt you apply so for say a 1000kv motor supplied with 11.1volts the motor would spin at 11100 revs. There are two types of brushless motor "in-runners" and "out-runners". This refers to the construction used with in-runners generally being less bulky. The outrunners will produce more tork and can be more suited to slower speeds. if you need to water cool the in-runners have a jacket fitted around the motor body whilst the out-runners use a water cooled mounting attached to the bearing. Both are suitable but I personally prefer Out-runners. For your model I suspect an inrunner may be preferable due to the restricted space available. Unlike brushed motors brushless do not like being overloaded and work best when they can achieve their max efficiency at near max revs. They have a max watt rating which should not be exceeded (Watts = Amps x Volts). The casing may be marked with numbers 42-56 which is the diameter 42mm and length 56mm. In my 48" Sea Queen I use a 42 size 850Kv water cooled motor of 700 watts and it is happy driving a Prop Shop prop of 42mm at 45 amp on full throttle. To measure your wattage you need to acquire a Wattmeter to measure the actual current draw with the model in the water. This will give an indication of the max current at max load as you hold the model stationery. If the watts are greater than the motor's rating you need to reduce the prop size/pitch. I like scale props so use 3 bladed brass and avoid using racing plastic/nylon props as they can overload the motor. The ESC should also be of a sufficient rating to handle the running current, I usually try for at least a 50% margin ie 75amps for a 50amp max current. Finally your setup must be really secure (I know from personal experience) and free running. The revs produced are possibly higher than what you may have experience before and any fault can and will escalate very quickly. At high currents the motor coils will fry in about 2 seconds should anything stall the motor and you can expect to see smoke and a ruined motor. If you post some pics we can give you more detailed help on your particular setup. Dave
    5 years ago by Dave M
    Forum
    Speed Controller
    Hi I peek the motor and speed Controller can you all tell me if its the right speed controller for the motor r not? heres the Specs:Turnigy AquaStar 4084-620KV Water Cooled Brushless Motor RPM/v: 620kv Winding: 2.5Y Max voltage: 37V (10S) Max Current: 105A Max Watts: 3050W Resistance: 0.03ohm No Load Current: 0.7A Can Diameter: 39mm (actual motor diameter) Can Diameter inc.
    water jacket
    : 49mm Can Length: 84mm Shaft Size: 5mm Weight: 508g Motor Connector: 4mm bullet plug and heres the Speed Controller im going for Specs: Voltage input: 2~6 LiPoly cells (6~18 NiMh) Continuous Current: 120A Burst Current: 720A BEC Type: Switching with on/off switch BEC Output: 6V@5A Motor Connectors: 4mm Servo lead: JR style Servo Lead length: 300mm Water Cooling Pipe: 3mm I/D~5.4mm O/D Dimensions: 68.5x39.4x32mm Weight: 160g many thanks cliff
    5 years ago by Mataroa
    Forum
    Assorted R/C boats for sale from Retired model boater !
    Got some IC stuff but all "aero" nothing with a
    water jacket
    . sorry. BTW all the three boats originally listed are now sold.
    5 years ago by stevewatkin
    Forum
    Help with SEA QUEEN.
    HI Colin I have measured the roof and provide the following details: The roof is wider at the rear and has a raised centre Length down the centre 268mm at rear on each side of centre 130mm and at front on each side of centre 105mm. The length down each side is 270mm. My roof has a ply base with ply ends cut at an angle rising to 22mm at the rear and 16mm at the front apex of the roof and falling to 5mm along each long edge. This long edge is curved to follow the cabin sides and rises to 12mm in the middle. The base is 10mm shorter than the roof at the front of the long sides reducing to 5mm at the rear. The front and rear of the roof are flush. I did not build my model so the measurements may not be the same for your model but hopefully will help you contruct a roof. Basically you need to make a plate to fit inside the top of the cabin and then construct a pent roof to fit over the windows and match up the front and rear. Hopefully the pics will help but please ask if you need any clarification. I use a 42-38 brushless with an 80 amp ESC. I made a water cool jacket for the motor from a lump of alI and modified the car ESC by fitting copper tube into the alI fins. The water scoop is at the rear by the prop and feeds thro the ESC then the motor and exits thro the side of the hull. My prop came from Simon at Prop Shop and works really well. I had to fit a spray rail along the chine at each side as water was splashing into the cockpit and interfering with my crew's phasers!! I use an 11.1v 5amp Lipo (Component Shop) and have on board monitoring which warns when the battery volts start to drop and also monitors the esc and motor temps. The amps are 45 amp max at warp speed but the wash is very Impressive and not popular with other users. An acceptable speed with the boat on the plane pulls about 20/25amps so I get about 30 mins per charge, longer if I comply with speed limits. Plenty of time for me but the model really looks the part on the water and always attracts attention, usually positive. Good building Dave
    6 years ago by Dave M
    Directory
    (Racing Boat) MFA Piranha
    Skips along very well , looking to fit a water cooled jacket to the brushless inrunner in due time (ESC: Birdie water cooled) (8/10)
    7 years ago by CraigRobotham
    Forum
    34'' GRP/Kitshak Crash tender
    HI Zippy, long time no speak, we last met two years ago at a fireboat funday, and discussed brushless applications at length. I currently have a turnigy T600 outrunner, 800kv, in my 3 footer. Last time you saw this boat it was a 700bb turbo brushed set up, 2 x 9.6v nimhs with a 1.5:1 gearbox. it went well, but now is way more efficient. The brushless is direct drive, propshop 3 blade Cleaver after your suggestion, turnigy 60 amp esc (watercooled boat version) running on two 7.2v lipos. This same motor in my big Huntsman with 1.25:1 ratio on two 11.1v lipos and "x" prop 52.5mm was good for 23mph, 7kg boat, and didn't need cooling, but was a bit amp hungry spiking at 70amps!!!! so the esc had to handle it. Maybe not the best set up, but tried and tested, didn't you have a brushless setup in your Huntsman? Higher kv motors will struggle on larger heavier boats, as they need some torque. A very successful direct drive brushless motor was an align 1200kv, BL something or other! 52.5mm "x" prop, but it did get hot and needed water cooling. its an outrunner, but with a can on the outside, so you can fit a
    water jacket
    Both motors are common with rc helI peeps, and come up on ebay in helicopter section, when testing they are worth a punt. Make sure you buy one with the shaft the right way around for boat use, as the shafts are grooved for circlips usually and cannot be reversed on most of them. They are usually intended for aircraft which have all manner of adapters depending on the props to be used Good luck, Paul
    7 years ago by pmdevlin
    Blog
    2 steps forward...
    Thought I might be doing some gentle turns around the pond by start of March but didn't get further than the bath! The job was going well, a new frame for the aft end and a cover/deck to sit on it, a frame and tray for the electronics to sit on. The water pick-up for the jacket on the diesel engine now runs water around in a loop and out the back of the boat without actually doing anything but I thought it might look a bit more interesting to retain it. All electronics mounted and working, batteries in situ alongside the motor. Bit of a bother with the receiver/ESC/servo connections in so far as the instructions that came with the (cheap) 2CH 2.4Ghz set gave no real clue as to what went where. There were 4 sockets, marked /- then Ch1,2 and 3(?). The instructions showed the ESC on Ch1 and the servo on 2. The leads from the ESC and servo have no key/spline to ensure they only fit one way around so I crossed fingers and plugged in. Various combinations later, mostly resulting in the throttle lever on the Tx operating the rudder and nothing else, I ended up with the ESC in /- and the servo on Ch1 which seems to work fine. I think I am lucky not to have let the smoke out of the circuits really but being an RC virgin I had no idea of what the set up should have been. I also noticed that the motor runs a higher rpm in reverse, is this an internal ESC resistance thing, the higher rated amps for fwd causing the resistance increase? Haven't checked it with a meter so can't comment on the voltage actually being delivered as yet. Anyway, I put everything in and gave it a spin on the stocks- god, what a row. The motor is quiet enough on its own but with the shaft and UJ in it is awful. I did know the original brass shaft was a bit loose to be honest but hoped to get away with it just for a test run or two but no, it has to go. Most of the noise seemed to be from the UJ though which I thought a bit odd as it has almost no angle to run at. Solutions, replace known problem of shaft and try a different UJ. I didn't fancy getting a 50 year old hull too upset removing the old tube so have gone for a 4mm stainless shaft/tube which will fit inside the old 1/4" ID tube and save disturbances. I don't think the motor will produce enough torque to twist the shaft. This is the next job along with making another motor mount as the thing needs to be in a different place now.But I couldn't resist a quick if noisy test so into the bath just to see what we had- at 7.2V it is moving a fair bit of water with its 35mm 3 blade prop and revs don't drop much under the load so nothing seems to be stressed there but I am sure we could go a bit bigger on the prop and of course when I resolve my battery issues (see below) we will have about 12v anyway. No idea what this all might translate to in terms of forward speed but that doesn't really matter that much anyway. Tune in for the next exiting episode soon...
    8 years ago by fid2b
    Forum
    diesel help
    HI all, newbie post so hope It's not too daft! I have a 2.46 ED diesel, not sure exactly what model but It has the
    water jacket
    and twin exhaust ports, It was bought re-con on the early 60's. Anyway It has only run a couple of hours since then and when last used about 30 years ago was fine. Now when I try and run It It will run fine for a couple of seconds after priming then Is starving. Fuel doesn't seem to draw In so I plan to remove the Intake/carb end and clean It, question really Is any tips specific to this type of engine? I am quite happy with engine builds but only full size, I have no real model engine experience. Also when the boat last took to the water I had a tank pick up roughly level with the fuel Inlet, Is that Ideal because now with the engine on the bench I can't get the fuel happy- If I put the supply above the Inlet, It floods, level or below and I get an airlock at the Inlet- perhaps this Is related to the fuel starvation? Any thoughts welcome and thanks.
    9 years ago by fid2b
    Response
    Fast Patrol Boat by Veron Swordsman
    HI Ian, yes Phil did start from a very young age. I've seen photos of him at the Great West Aerodrome (now Heathrow) with free flight petrol in the 1920's. If your going to I of W it's worth calling into Westbourne Models on the way that's if your going along the coast. If your going brushless be warned that the ESC's are a lot of money. I would recommend the Graupner one. I have one and cannot fault it. its a bit strange to program at first but once I got use to it no probs. You can have it for planes, cars, helicopters or boats, it changes the start up differently, I had nothing but trouble with some cheap ones until I went to Westbourne emptied my wallet and put it in my Huntsman by Precedent, the slow speed is fantastic you have so much control and when you open it up it is smooth. I put a
    water jacket
    on it and it is always cool no matter how I drive the boat. if you do go to Westbourne let me know, if you like, and you could come in for a drink (tea!) would like to meet you, speak to you soon, Brian
    9 years ago by sharpy1071
    Response
    RAF Crash/Fire Tender
    The motor I have has a built in water cooling jacket, works really well..... πŸ˜€
    9 years ago by bigmacmodels
    Blog
    watercooled tuned pipe and silencer
    I passed the end of the pipe completely through the transom so I could attach a silencer if needed,this pipe has a large internal
    water jacket
    that is not reliant on o-rings to keep the water from leaking out.
    9 years ago by hydroman


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