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Thanks Haig👍 I just hope Andy is still around. Maybe a variant of my four screw setup for my HMS Belfast could help him. I'm going to upgrade it with differential ESC control for the two outer motors to assist the steering, the 'beast' (125cm), only has one rudder. I also use SLAs (and brushed motors) in such large displacement hulls, but for planing hulls these days the 'norm' must surely be brushless and LiPo (or at least HiPower NiMh😉). G'night from frozen Munich 😡 Cheers, Doug 😎
Hi Ron. I am currently building the Aeronauts Pilot Boat Kit. It is reasonably well advanced now but I still have to fit the electronics. I bought two 400 sport brushed motors and was advised at a very early stage that two speed controllers were necessary. I looked into various solutions and found that Hobbyking sell a dual speed controller especially for two motors. It is a Hobbywing Quicrun 860. I hope this helps.😊 Peter.
Have just made a prototype of a fan forced smoker which seems to be working well (despite breaking the heater coil by moving it while hot, - had it apart, broke wire, screw and washer repair, not quite as hot) I bought a couple of Heng Long smokers (for R/C tanks or cars) to play with, for $10 NZ each(or 5.3 Euros to you Northerners give or take a yen) from Bangood and just bought another from Ebay. There seem to be 2 different models, as one has a long coil with a lamp wick draped over it, which is sitting in the oil reservoir, the other has a small coil inside a piece of heat resistant woven tubing (as you might find insulating toaster/heater wiring etc) which acts as a wick and that also sits in cotton wool in the reservoir, (this seems to be the better of the two) Tip - don't fill the tank right up, only enough to soak the cotton, element should be just out of the oil. The wick loads the element. The better model seems to have a black top to the tank (also maybe either brown or black tank) and the other has a brown top and dirty brown tank. As with most of this stuff you won't know till you get it what it's going to be. What I did was remove the tank and cut off the pump tube just in front of the screw lugs (see black line in photo) then fitted the tank, and a 40x40x10 5v ESC fan (voltage controlled by a UBEC set to 5v on the jumpers) into a plastic electronics utility box from Jaycar (our local electronics and hobby store). I made up a double JST lead for the 2s 1800Mah Lipo and fired it up (using baby oil). It's pretty much silent and smokes well once it gets warmed up, ( starts smoking in about 5 seconds) You could control it (on/off volume) by either a remote on/off switch or perhaps a small cheap 10A brushed ESC. I would leave the fan running and control the element to avoid burning the element. The original pump tank inlet hole seems ok as is (approx 1.5mm) but you could enlarge it very slightly to get a better flow if you could find a better oil. At the electronics store they have proper smoke machine oil for $20 NZ per litre so I may have a look at that. The reason I went for the fan idea was that I found in std pump form, if I immersed a tube from the tank in water, it sucked water back into the tank. I was hoping it would pump smoke out of my HSL exhausts at water level alongside the cooling water but it would need a very light non return valve to do this. The fan seems to pump the smoke through 2mm ID silicone tube ok, so tubing of similar ID to the OD of the tank outlets should work well. These pumps in original form work pretty well for the price, and are cheap enough to keep a few for spare elements, the only thing is they are a bit noisy but in an 'engine sounding' way, (might add to the effect on a tug or work-boat though) What you have left after this mod is a very handy little geared motor with an eccentric output wheel which could be used for winches, radar and whirly bits of any description (see pic of motor leftover and original) To avoid burnout, these should be run on no more than a 2s (around 7.5v-(suggest 8v max with fan running) The other tank is going to work a lot better than this one but I'm not making a tug, just want a bit of exhaust smoke on start-up etc to go with the 2 sound units. Very cheap to make (around $25 NZ with pump, box, fan and UBEC all through Ebay, Aliexpress and Bangood (and local electronics store) If you wanted to run an ESC to control the smoke and you have no channels left to control it proportionally, you can always try using a second receiver bound to your TX, (if your TX will allow it,) power it and a brushed ESC (wired to the element) as normal and use the throttle channel to plug in your smoke control. This should work if you want more smoke as you accelerate or if you are using only 1 stick on a 2 stick TX you could use your 'elevator' stick pushed up (or a toggle switch if available) to start/stop the smoke (through the brushed ESC setup) . This setup weighs 100g (10g more than std) The quest for lots of smoke continues Will try to upload vid later and update progress.
Hi Steve, I have the same problem with the ESCs in my HSL. They are cheap Chinese car models and can be a bit tricky to get into reverse quickly. I have found that either waiting a few seconds in neutral before trying reverse, or going to neutral and flicking the throttle forward a few clicks and back to neutral quickly (in .5 sec) usually sorts it. I think it may be that the motor stops somewhere that the cheaper ESCs can't detect (bit like an old car starter that hits the bald spot on the ring gear and you have to jog it a bit) so you have to move it slightly for it to 'see' it (maybe the capacitors also). Brushed ESCs don't have that problem as the brushes are in constant contact, rather than relying on correct positioning in Brushless motors. You will also find that some Chinese motors are not timed/wound correctly, and you can feel weak or 'floaty' spots between certain magnets which may also cause a problem. Perhaps trying a higher or lower ESC timing by 1 step either way might help if you have that capability. If it works by just flicking the throttle method, you can just slow down as you come in and take you time finding reverse in a scale like manner (remember the PT109 movie where they went through the shed on the wharf) You can also try swapping the other pairs of wires on the motor (same direction but different pairs). If you are still not happy then it might be time as Doug said, for a better ESC with instructions. Get one which has all the programing features, (fwd, rev , timing, auto batt detection (lipos or NmH etc) starting mode- ie soft,hard, brake etc) this will give you plenty of options for adjustment. Doesn't have to be a marine one, a good known brand car/buggy one will do and if you have any heat problems you can always put a mini fan on it. Water cooled marine ESCs are really only for high amp high speed setups. My 36"HSL has 2x 30A car ESCs running 2x 28/45 2000kv water cooled motors and ESCs never get even warm. Pictured are the ESCs I am using from HK which have an output plug for a fan if needs be. The 3rd pic is the brushed ESC types (EBay, AliExpress) I am using, which have no problems with reverse transition (see vid section re Thornycroft MTB maneuvering) also the HSL vids to give you an idea of how these brushless ESCs perform even with the minor reversing problem. Hope you get it sorted.
I have one on a 540 brushed motor which is a reasonably tight fit on the motor. Also I have a Graupner on to fit Graupner 400 speed motor and that again is a quite tight fit. There is no gap between the motor and the coil. It is acting as a heat sink so therefore surely it should touch to disperse the heat with the water flowing through it. If it isn't in contact with it then doesn't it make it pointless putting it on there. Also wont it make it rattle about when the motor is running and the boat hopping about on the water ??
HI a chap in our club sails a Vosper mtb ,quite fast on a single screw , planes easily even on its brushed motor . every time he tries to turn at speed the boat dives bow going under water . we think the rudder , when the boat banks is taking on a horizontal conponent like an aeroplane elevator . we seem to use rudder sizes much larger in comparison to full size boats which wont help Cheers Ian
Depends how fast you want it to go! Electrical kit is either rated continuous or intermittent. Continuous ratings are usually conservative - you can exceed them somewhat - but they also assume decent cooling. The inside of a boat is usually sealed, and so is poor for cooling unless specific provision is made. Chinese ratings tend to be a bit unreliable - and watch out for cheap kit with phenomenal specs that are only achievable if you plunge them into liquid nitrogen! I typically run my 12v rated brushless motors at 7.2v. That way they just get a bit warm in a sealed boat and need no cooling. For brushed motors the brushes tend to be the weak spot if you put a lot of amps through them. Check your motors for heat after a run and you'll soon find out if you're mistreating them... If you're thinking about Taycols, the smaller ones were definitely brush-limited. Though the bigger ones are typically rated at 12v, the initial review for the Standard reckoned it could take 20v or more. Open frame motors are easier to cool. But I wouldn't like to guarantee the paxolin bearings if you did that...
Finally the new brass propellers arrived, delayed about a month in one of Canada's regular postal disruptions. After minor modifications to the boss profile (the brass are more streamlined and thus longer than nylon) to give clearance with the rudder leading edges, they were easily installed. Could now refit the electrical equipment previously removed to get access to the shaft couplings. Inevitably took the opportunity to make “improvements”, so then could not get anything to work! After much frustration determined the problem was not from my improvements, but from the cheap and nasty slide switches provided with ESCs. These must have got damp during the test runs and corroded internally. Suggest when using these switches they be consigned to the garbage and replaced with proper toggle ones. Had decided to use the centre brushed motor/propeller for manoeuvring and low speed operation and then the outer brushless for high speed. Brushless ESCs do not modulate smoothly and motor operation is erratic. This was particularly evident when going from forward to reverse and vice versa. Using a lever control Tx, it was also easy to inadvertently operate the brushless control along with the brushed making the model response unpredictable. After some thinking, decided to insert a small relay into each of the white signal wires for the brushless motor ESCs. These relays would be controlled by a RC switch operated by another channel on the Rx. Hoping this way the brushless motors could be switched on and off whenever desired. The two relays would retain the ESCs as separate circuits and avoid any interference between them. The idea worked, can now operate the brushed motor confidently knowing the brushless will not be inadvertently triggered. This means low speed manoeuvers can be gently undertaken using the modulation and control ability of the brushless motors and, by selecting the auxiliary control, can add the high speed capability of the brushless. Am also hoping that when the Li-Pos trigger the low voltage cut-outs in the ESCs, this will retain a “get-home” facility on the brushed motor as that ESC operates independently. Much to look forward to when next on the water.
You're as BAD as me Boaty 😉 but I had a Rover 2000 with fully reclining seats back then - no problem 😁 Re 3 wires on a brushless. Simply put, this is analogous to a 3 phase AC motor (such as used in bathroom extractor fans etc). If you apply a single phase AC voltage to an AC motor it just twitches backwards and forwards in the same place as the voltage crosses from the positive to the negative half cycle. Thus 3 phases are applied giving 3 'shoves' in sequence to keep things moving. A starter capacitor is also needed to give the motor a 'belt' to shove it off. Similarly with a brushless: the ESC senses where the motor armature is in relation to the magnet poles and applies a DC pulse to the next armature coil in sequence. When you shove the throttle up the pulse width lengthens applying a longer shove and thus more energy and speed. Pulling the throttle back with a reversible ESC just turns the pulse train upside down so that negative DC pulses are applied to the motor, reversing the magnetic field created in the armature and thus the rotation. Simple really. It's the sensing and timing done inside the ESC that's the tricky bit, which is why we had to wait about a hundred years from the invention of the AC motor (Nikolai Tesla) until we could use them in models - thanks to micro-electronics. Here endeth today's seminar 😁😁 Happy brushlessing Folks, cheers, Doug 😎 Hmmm, perhaps that's why electric toothbrushes use brushed motors! 😁😜
Hi Westquay It sounds Doug has got it right. I only went over to brushless 3 years ago when I returned to fast electric. All my existing models at the time had brushed motors installed and I did become confused with the "new technology". Having three wires from the motor to the ESC was a bit difficult to comprehend but as the boat was an RTR it was helpful due to having an instruction manual with it. It just takes time and experience to get use to such changes but it will be right in the end. My only experience of a non starter was back in 1976, this being the only time I had a date with a married woman. I had a Lotus Elan then and there was no room in the back and it would have been a waste of time calling the AA to resolve it.😁😎 Boaty
I found this hull at thingiverse last year. I printed the hull from a local shop and rest was handmade. Firstly I bought a 2426 4200kv brushless 2-3s which was too powerful and too heavy for the boat size. The length is 38cm. And the 30Amp esc was also too big for it's size. After that I tried small 180 brushed motor with 20A brushed esc w/brake. It was perfect (still it's heavy😂). The bridge and deck is made by 1.75mm pvc,torpedos are made of wooden pencil. Small battery space takes a 2s 500mah lipo. 30mm 3blade propeller. YouTube video link is here: https://youtu.be/KZdmZ8_Z0IE
Again, as not wanting to nick someone else's thread. Huntsman 31 currently has a geared (belt) brushed motor which was probably quite a good spec. many years ago. I don't remember how quick it was but having watched brushless boats running this morning in Southsea I have decided now is the time for change before I start painting. I've been reading various threads and gleaned some info but it is still a minefield. Whilst this boat (original) is twin screw I am not yet ready to go that far so will stay single screw. A thread suggested 3639 -1100KV which is fine as a spec. but there are a zillion different makes and models for that spec. Cornwall models seem to offer 6 or 8 so I am looking for more specific advise for make and model of each piece of the power system...motor, ESC, battery, charger. I'm not going to say 'money no object' just that I don't 'need' to buy bottom spec. I suspect there will be as many different suggestions as 'Cornwall' have motor makes but something good will come out of it. Many thanks Steve
The weather has quickly turned colder, giving an excuse to get back to this model. Stripped out much of the interior and the prop. shafts to replace the nylon propellers with brass. These items all needed removing for painting, so decided to paint the hull before reassembly and then moving onto the superstructure. Fortunately, examining similar naval vessels and several U Tube videos, confirmed the hull as light grey, the deck a darker one of the 50 shades of grey and the lower hull below the waterline black. Used thin Tamiya masking tape to define clean colour separations, followed by regular tape, masked the hull into colour sections and sprayed using “rattle” cans. After the colours applied a light overall Matt coat to subdue any shine. The results are satisfactory. Will now reassemble and move onto building the superstructure and the other fittings. Prior to the season closing decided to experiment with my new Flysky Tx/Rx package, shortly to be fitted to this model. This Tx has a servo limiting function, which was hoping could also be used to restrict ESC output. Would like to make the full speed motor response correspond to full Tx control position. Currently can over power the model; which lifts the stern, causing it to come off the plane and then dig the bow in. Was thinking that if full throttle could be set at around 90% forward control movement and 40% sternwards the model would retain adequate performance, but without being overpowered or very sensitive to control lever movement. As the Brave was not available, tried the idea on my Daman Stan 4207 model. This is brushed motor powered and a good performer. Obviously the settings for the Brave will be different, but at least could try to see if the idea would work – it did! This Tx function is easy to use and adjustments can be made whilst the model is on the water. Once the ideal settings are achieved they can be programmed and then retained in the Tx. Will try this on the Brave when back on the water next Spring.
Don't know what happened MOTOR COMPARISON Model Number Caldercraft CEM 900T MFA Torpedo 850 Nominal Voltage 12v 12v Operating Range 6-24v 12v Type Brushed Brushed Current Cons No Load 0.4A 1.9A Current Consumption Max Eff 5A 10,8A Stall Current 20.3A 40A RPM at Nominal Voltage 3000r/min 9778r/min Prop Caldercraft 75mm The Motor I am putting in this Sea Queen is a Torpedo 850. This is due to the Caldercraft motor only manages just above walking pace.