Hi I have just read your post about your tug, I am one of those who modified mine to two new motors:- A. Because the original gear box nylon pinion gears split and there was no way that one could get them to fix securely back on to the motor shaft, plus the fact that when initially refitted they would no longer mesh and if the motors stopped at the wrong point they would not restart they just jammed. B. I wanted to make the tug more manoeuvrable so fitted separate speed controllers to each motor enabling me to run one motor forward and one in reverse this with suitable rudder positioning allows the tug to rotate on its axis with very little forward or reverse motion. C. I was able to use a 6v 4Ah Gel type battery which gives a much greater runtime. As to the old gearbox I think that because the gears were split it was disposed of. Somewhere in my harbour here there should be some photo’s of the conversion. I am now using speed 300 motors with a 2.5:1 reduction position much further forward in the hull an I made extension shafts to the original fitted ones, and it all works. Hope this helps and perhaps explained the need to change the original setup. Graham
Hi Jim I used a Hobbyking D3548/4 1100kv , a car ESC (hk60A-SL)(electric fan on top for cooling), program card(HK PROG-CARD) and a 40mm 2blade prop(test out the one on the boat first). Battery a 3s 5800mah 30C Lipo. This is in my Sea Commander and gives a good turn of speed with a long run time. ESC set up:- 1 Cutoff Voltage for 3S=10.2 and 4S=13.6 2 Start Power Percent=5% 3 Advance Timing=4 4 Run Mode=2 5 Brake Force=1 6 Drag Brake Force=1 7 Neutral Range=1 8 Initial Brake Force=1 9 Reverse Force=1 Canabus
Boat is Scratch built 36" British Power Boat 64ft High Speed ASR Launch which belonged to the RNZAF. The launch was one of the 22 built and was shipped to NZ in 1940. It was the only one of its type in the Southern Hemisphere. Model has twin motors, ESCs, sound units etc. Has remotely switched water pump for water cooled brushless 2000kv in runner motors and remotely switched lighting. Uses 2x 2200mah 2s LiPos for drive and 1 1800mah LiPo for the pump (also a separate battery for the LED lights. Boat is built with strip planked balsa on ply frame and fiber glassed. Deck is ply, wheelhouse is varnished balsa. The colour is as it was for most of its time in the RNZAF . Took about 5 years on and off to build and finished it last year. (please ignore the time date - can't get rid of it .
Adjusted the transom flaps and reprogrammed the ESCs to the softest start settings, retested. Until now, the test runs did not have the duration or stability to really examine what was happening. Using 3 S batteries acceleration is rapid and a is plane quickly achieved. However, as the acceleration continues and speed increases, the bow digs in. A cloud of spray then surrounds the model as the plane is lost. Brushless motors do not modulate as smoothly as brushed and adjusting power tends to be erratic or exaggerated. This is a scale model and the propeller shaft angles are per the plans. The thrust from the propeller has two components, horizontal and vertical. The horizontal propels the vessel forward. However, the vertical component forces the stern upwards and, correspondingly, the bow down. Have moved as much weight as possible towards the stern to counteract this, limited by maintaining the correct displacement and waterline. The easiest solution is to reduce motor power, decreasing both speed and the lifting component. Decided to retry the 2S batteries as they give reduced power. A plane is again achieved, but as the motor response is more docile, it can be controlled. If the speed gets too high the bow lowers, as before, but the motor output can be more easily adjusted. Spent a pleasant half hour or so with the vessel accelerating onto and off a nice, controllable plane. Much less spray and drama than with 3S and much more controllable. Have now decided to revise plans and use 2S rather than 3 batteries. A further advantage is the motor noise is muted and now sounds more like a gas turbine than a dental drill! Finally feeling comfortable with the model. Will thus shelve further building until the late fall when sailing in Canada concludes. Want to enjoy the rest of my fleet in the meantime! Will summarize my experiences with brushless motors in another blog shortly for the benefits of others contemplating their use. After restarting the model will resurrect periodic build blogs to advise progress.
Hi Pete, Welcome back👍 Yes, I did remove the moulded rungs. No chance of cramming the wiring in if you don't. I just twisted them out with a small pair of pliers and machined the rest out with a 3mm milling bit in my mini drill. I had hoped you would come to the 'cluttered' conclusion about the mast! Don't know of any standards for lamp spacing, never thought about. Spect there is, maybe Ed (figtree) knows, but he's having internet problems at the moment 🤔 Thanks re antenna cables. Not difficult with a couple of chunks of copper wire and the pin-drill. Some time I will also add the two small booms carrying a GPS antenna and an anemometer. Re anchors: all tugs I've ever seen have anchors. This is on my list of 'Missing details on the model'. It's quite a long list🤔 Pics attached showing the anchor in a recess on the stbd bow. BECC still exist but only seem to sell through agents/stockists now. Here the US/Canada stockists;- http://www.becc.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d47.html This probably your best bet http://www.loyalhannadockyard.com/ Some of the others have disappeared😲 Look forward to your winch sketch, cos I wanna build one too! Cheers, Doug 😎
Mornin' Pete (it is in Germany anyway!) I agree, there are lots of details and 'standard equipment' missing from the basic model. You can see the winch and Life Raft canister in one of the photos of the original I posted above. Re Mast wiring; don't fiddle about putting a divider in the mast. It'll just get in the way. Attached is a pic of my modified mast. I used a 0.5mm brass wire on the right-hand side for the earth return. Wire is better than rod cos it's flexible (can be pushed into the corner). I glued it in with gel Gluper Sue WHEN all connections were soldered and tested. The LEDs are standard domed lens types. I ground the tops flat and painted the tops with several coats of matt black until it was opaque. After testing I closed off the mast with some plasticard and fitted ladder rungs made of copper wire. I also added the missing antenna cables to the bottom of the VHF IMM antennas, 0.5mm brass wire. (Some time I'll also fit the missing GPS antenna and anemometer.) Then painted the mast matt black. I then turned my attention to the searchlight and red/green NAV lights. First I stripped the wheelhouse roof and painted it white as in the original. On my model it was grey🤔 Then I drilled out the searchlight to accept a 5mm Bright White LED. You won't have to do this cos you have a later version with lights, mine had none 😭 Then had to paint the searchlight with several coats of matt black. Otherwise it just glowed all round! Pics show construction stages and finished lighting effect. All wires inside the wheelhouse roof I super glued to the ceiling and ran them down inside the funnels (stacks to you guys across the pond!😉) ready for connection to a switch board in the hull. While I was at it I rubbed the false Southampton name off the cabin using a 1000 grit Tamiya sponge and am preparing inkjet printed decals with the correct Wyeforce name and logo. Have fun getting all lit up Pete,😁 Cheers, Doug 😎 PS Attached some pics showing the original 'Southampton' 😉 and making obvious what's missing on the model 🤔
Boat lifting eyes As has been said by others the boat lifting eyes are a small detail but an important one, somehow when detailing gets in your head its difficult not to seek it out. Anyway, there are six eyes three on each side, which I presume, are for lifting the boat out of the water, unfortunately there isn’t any detail on size so it’s down to “builders eye”. I made the six in a batch, that’s to say I first made six identical pieces 10.5mm x 20.5mm x 2mm thick and drilled the hole in each then the six pieces fastened together with an M4 screw and then machined together to ensure uniformity and ease of production. I then skimmed them to final size 10 x 20 followed by milling the concave and convex radii on the top. I intend to sink the eye into the deck and secure using a brass pin sideways into the gunwhale stringers and epoxied into position. To ease fitting I made a small jig, which will allow a 2mm slot to be cut in the exact position on the deck along with a drilled hole at 90 degrees. Two small grub screws fasten the jig to the gunwale stringers while the slot and holes are machined. After all the slots had been prepared I then made all the foot rails that run along the edge of the deck from bow to stern, the first set I used the obeche supplied in the kit, however as they are in a place that could get knocked I decided to rework then in walnut. Finally I pre drilled all the foot rails ready for temporary pinning. Having all the components ready it is time to assemble with epoxy resin, using sparingly and making sure not to get any on the visible part of the brass lifting eyes and using pins to hold in position while curing. PS sorry about some of the picture quality but I didn't check them until after assembly
No Martin, I don't think so. Once again; it's not so much what you say but HOW you say it. If your chat with the 'only geezer' was in the same vein as your recent posts I can fully understand that the reaction was 'don't call us - we'll call you'. Patience is NOT an excuse for wasting time. It is an essential component of successful negotiation. During my career I was often involved in systems design and contract negotiations for COMMS systems for ships yet to be ordered and built. Many of such projects took 5 to 7 years or more to come to fruition. My perseverance and patience paid off. I was the one who signed the contracts! I often heard from the shipyards and/or navies involved that they were put off by the 'pushy' tactics used by my competitors with less patience. Tolerance is also not a weakness. Lack of it IS. Differing opinions are fine, just depends how they are expressed. Denigrating and insulting others who have differing interests as morons is not the 'fine English art' ! Re: Dumbphone control Apps; YOU don't necessarily need to know (a Luddite wouldn't want to or need to anyway!) but the parents of your grand kids SHOULD in this day and age. Tell 'em to look for Apps like 'Quiet Time'. This enables them to define times that the kids can access the web online via smartphone and when it is blocked. And no, the kids can't normally get around it. If they can; leave 'em alone to make their millions! Re: Woodies; Super duper. You have seen that I have put a tremendous amount of effort into renovating the Sea Scout that my Dad built in the early sixties. I enjoyed the process and learned a lot doing it. But I am not fixed on that particular line of model boat / model ship building. If that's your only thing - fine. But why berate those of us who take a wider view and also have an interest and find challenges in making shipboard functions work in miniature in all sorts of ships? "I really couldn't give a sh*t if I was the only person left in the world making woodies. I do it for me only these days in the absence of any clubs. But I don't have to pretend to like all the other stuff. In another place are people who not only do sail, but specifically model barge racing and good on 'em. I don't ask that they do all the other stuff" No, of course you don't have to pretend to like 'all the other stuff' but you also don't have to decry those that DO like the other stuff, as you often do the tug aficionados for instance. OK, I can understand an aversion to warships as such if someone is a died in the wool pacifist, but nevertheless some appreciation of the skills involved in producing such outstanding warship models as seen on this site is not out of order, or...? (Bye the bye; I've often noticed that 'pacifists' have a particularly aggressive way of expressing themselves!?) After 30 odd years here in Germany I'm out of touch with the ground roots in UK, but over here things don't look so black. There are thriving model boat clubs all over. W.r.t. 'exciting aspects'; there are clubs in Germany, Holland and France and Italy also I think who happily and skilfully re-enact sea battles and convoy battles. There is at least one club in South England that also does that I believe, in Southampton or Portsmouth? Don't get Channel 4 here (re Battle of Britain re-run you mentioned) but I do get DMAX, which shows a series called 'Die Modellbauer'. In this the crémé de la crémé of German model making is depicted and judged for the annual cup at the International Model Show here. It covers everything from fire trucks, excavators, boats and ships of all kinds, and aircraft of of all types including turbine jets. Criteria for the competition being: 1) Shall be externally identical to the original in every detail (down to the rivets!)l, 2) Shall be able to perform each and every function of the original. 3) 150 days to design, complete and demonstrate the model. The point being that with extremely few solo exceptions the models are almost always built by a father and son partnership. So, sorry if the situation is drastically different in UK but 'over here' it ain't so black as you paint. Maybe it's a question of the attitude of the parents? BTW: for a fantastic example of 'modelling on a mammoth scale' pop across to Hamburg and have a look at the 'Miniature Wonderland' in the old Hafen City. All 1/87 scale, the largest model railway layout in the world, but also all types of aircraft and ships in action as well. Also shown from time to time on various documentary TV channels. BTW2: don't worry about the brass bashing, I'll work it out for myself. Have fun with the Taycols. Cheers, Doug 😎
No Doug, you have quite the wrong idea about me. I would love to get a club going and have done all I could to do so including meeting the one only geezer who offered to have a cuppa in the local caff. We parted with him saying he'd tell those members of a distant club he went to that had water problems and would call me. Guess what? You know the rest. THAT's why my attitude is **** '**. I've had it constantly from model boaters. Little enclaves of mates who will NOT countenance new members (model railways clubs too as it happens, more old farts). What else should I say faced with that attitude. No, I am NOT a tolerant or patient man, that's for sure. Patience is just an excuse for wasting time. I have no idea what apps are available for 'phone control. I don't even have one. Whilst my kids have made an excellent job generally of raising my Grandchildren, they don't seem to know either what to do about the latest fad for Playstation and 'phone. But one things for sure, none of them show the slightest interest in making or doing anything and are part of the first generation to be absolutely bloody useless. I just hope the three of my 5 grandchildren who have common sense will do something with that, but I know damned well it won't be keeping modelmaking going or any other endeavour that requires real skill and application. These matters are of concern in all the hobbies I have any interest in. Old boats (yes Woodies and why not?), old aircraft, old bikes and old cars. As long as WE live, eh? Well that ain't gonna be that much longer in any kind of fit state to go the pond on a regular basis with heavy models. So actually we WILL be witnessing the death of all those groups I mention above and many more. From the care home windows, unless we're lucky enough to cop our clogs before that living death happens. When you hear "Can't be arsed" from the mouths of, effectively, babes, you know the craft world is in trouble. And I mean craft, not gluing bits of cut card together with Prit sticks under the banner of that foul word "crafting". I really couldn't give a **** if I was the only person left in the world making woodies. I do it for me only these days in the absence of any clubs. But I don't have to pretend to like all the other stuff. In another place are people who not only do sail, but specifically model barge racing and good on 'em. I don't ask that they do all the other stuff. And as far as I can see they don't. My comments about the future are based on my observations and chats with established long term members of those hobbies who all agree the end really is nigh. All those balding, grey haired, pot bellied, probably bearded old geezers standing around with stoops from their long knackered backs, all wondering whether this time next year they'll still have their Honda Jazz or a mobility scooter. If that's how it's all going, so be it. As you say we won't be here to witness the real death. And the more exciting aspects of the model hobby? There was a programme on tonight about modelmakers flying re-runs of Battle of Britain air battles with similar sized models, laser guns, damage smoke, etc. 2 youngish blokes, the rest, including the German contingent, older guys. Oh and a Tranny and I don't mean a transmitter! In 10 years time that programme will not be makeable. BTW the Tranny was by far the best pilot. Cheers, Martin
25 knots is not very fast and would definitely not need brushless to get a scale speed or a good running time. Of course if you think hammering around at closer to a scale 50 knots makes it look more realistic, then you might need to go that route. Martin
Fantastic stuff, Colin. If you can get that ancient engine to run on diesel from your car plus Methanol, you could get that kitchen nozzle going! Where did you just get some methanol from? I'd say the engine is something like an old ED Competition Special or similar with a very home made water jacket and even more home made exhaust wrapper, requiring tubes to be added to the 2 stubs and led to the stern or either side. Doug's yer man for anything lecktrickal. Is there actually anything of the original RC in there apart from that superb kitchen nozzle affair, which deserves to be preserved all on it's own. Control will have been vestigial at best as the engine has no throttle and the nozzle arrangement will not have had any level of proportionality to it. It will, at best, have been push the button and see where the boat ended up, knowing it could, at a a pinch, be brought back to where it started. At one time all RC was like that. My own REP set was left,centre, right, centre, etc. A wonderful throwback that must be preserved. I wish my local junk shops had stuff like that! Cheers, Martin
Hi William, S, X35 !? No idea😲 I assume they are terms from the racing world which I have no particular interest in. My intention wasn't to make her into an offshore racer. As it is she's well over scale speed, but fun to run, and that's what counts ain' it? 😉 Gives a good long run time, 1 hour plus, using a Propdrive 2830 BL and a 3S 4Ah battery. All up weight 1974gm. LoA 24", beam 8.5". My prop is simply a 35mm ca 14 pitch from Raboesch. Actually wanted the one with a blunter hub but they weren't available when I wanted it. The pointed hub variant is actually more like as fitted to larger naval units in WW2. Sorry🤔 Cheers, Doug 😎
Decided to separate the two power systems; one to the port ESC and motor and the other the starboard. Hope this will reduce interference between the motor systems. Have also reverted to a remote battery powered Rx rather than the BECC system, again to reduce possible interference. The modifications did not resolve the problems. The squeal and stutter are still present, but much reduced. Sounds rather like a slipping coupling, but as these have been checked many times they can be eliminated. Apart from the squeal and the stutter, everything works well. The squeal /stutter occurs at start up, when it happens the control is returned to neutral, If the motor is immediately reselected, usually the problem goes away and the motor runs up cleanly. It only occurs when both motors are selected at the same time. Either runs up cleanly when selected individually. Interestingly enough, did some research on various Model Boats site and found some references to RF interference, no specific solutions though. Also examined some Aero modeling sites as they use powerful brushless motors with ESCs. There is some history of the problem there. Evidently when the mosfets (?) of the ESCs convert DC to AC, RF interference is generated. It can often be addressed by using ferrite rings on the ESC control leads. My latest ESCs actually have ferrite rings, so the problem must have been anticipated. This might account for the latest reduction in squeal and stutter levels. Am at a loss to think of any other modifications, so decided to conduct a water test. Maybe it is a characteristic of brushless motors, but their control response seems “ragged”, not smooth as with a brushed. Anyway, the squeal and stutter seemed reduced yet again, perhaps the water load damped them down. Was able to start exploring both the performance envelope and the viability of the brushed centre shaft motor. First impressions are that on a 2S battery the performance is fine, but it sparkles on 3S. On 3S the stutter and squeal are more pronounced though. Intend to do further trials but, unless something unexpected occurs, now plan to use 2S power. The centre brushed motor idea works well, this layout seems a good compromise. Will design a simple switching circuit to ensure the brushless motors can selected separately. This will avoid the inadvertent operation of both brushed and brushless unintentionally as they are on the same control stick. The brushed can then be used for low speed operation. Returning to the problem of squeal and stutter – has anybody else experienced this and how was it resolved?