Dave M beat me to it. I have the same model. It's fitted with a speed 600BB motor and a 40mm prop. I use an Mtroniks 25amp speed controller (which is being changed to a 30amp Tio esc shortly so I can use my Lipos). It planes nicely on out lake, and seems quite good handling. Good luck with yours 😊
As this is a refurbishment chances are it was fitted with an IC engine in which case you need to remove all the gunge and heavy mounting blocks from inside the hull as well as checking the propshaft and bearings. If you can get the weight reduced then I would expect a speed 600 motor with a 30 to 40 mm prop should suffice. A 20/25 watt ESC powered by a NiMh would also be suitable and keep the weight down. If you use racing props the current will be greater than if you use brass 3 blade props, and the bigger the prop the greater the current. As a general rule the prop should have a diameter of no greater than that of the motor. The voltage of the NiMh must not exceed the max voltage the ESC can handle. A higher voltage will reduce the current draw so a 9.6v may be better than a 7.2v and give a longer run time. If you already have batteries for other models I would use those but SLA's are heavy and may hinder planing. If you already use LiPos then make sure your ESC can stand the voltage and has a built in cut off to protect the battery.
I have read so much lately regarding the appropriate size of ESC for brushed motors that I am totally confused (not really totally , but nearly!). For a Graupner Speed 600 the info given with the motor is max efficiency current = 11 amps, stalled current = 70 amps, no load current = 1.8 amps. Do I need an esc rated at 70 amps or more, or a 15 or 20 amp Mtronic Viper unit be OK? Should the fuse be 15 amps, or something well above that but under 70 amps? Questions, questions! (should have stuck to sail!) Chris
Hey, I've really enjoyed reading this build log, I was wondering what the dimensions of your 540 motors were? because in the instructions (i'm about to start building it) it says to use a graupner 400 speed which is significantly smaller than the two graupner 600 speed motors that i was intending to put in it. Do you think they would fit? How much spare room is there? Many thanks for any help, Yours Tintin
Hi AllenA Welcome to the site. Your model looks superb and you have restored to almost original condition, including the MacGregor! Looks better than the one I used to own! The smaller prop will be much better, I have cooked a couple of speed 600s with a too large prop. The lip at the front may not bwe correct but it certainly fits with the period when the model was built. Good luck with the new prop and perhaps you will post a video so we can all share your experience of this nostalgic model sailing. Dave
At last The Wave Princess sails again. She is not quite planing yet. She has a Speed 600, cheap '320' amp esc, Macgregor MR23A receiver and a Carson Reflex CS3 servo, 12" Graupner propshaft. Quite proud of the home made prop support, I will never throw out an aluminium cooking pan again. Rookie problems are: 1. slight bend in prop makes it a little noisy but improved with vaseline and WD40 mix. 2. Have a 50mm prop at the moment will reduce that to 30mm and work my way up until I get best result. Will change to Brass eventually. As you can see the front cabin has an incorrectly fitted visa lip which has taken me 30 years to realise, that will be rubbed down and flattened. Really pleased that my bootsale MacGregor transmitter works as if new with a few new connectors to fit the ESC. My first one of many and, hopefully, tidier boats. Any advice and guidance would be warmly welcomed
I Have been asked by the widow of one of our old members to sell this kit, it is the complete works from speedline for the Trent lifeboat at 1/12 scale. 48" long. Very little has been done to the kit so far. comprising of:- Hull and wheelhouse Handrail stanchions and kicking boards Casting set Window set Vac forming set Brass rod Screws very small nuts and bolts Running gear set Brass detail set 3 made up crew members She would like offers very near. £500. PM me if interested for contact details this would be for collection from Gravesend Kent only.
Grandpa, I started with a direct drive Speed 500 on 6 cells (7.2V) and it didn't have the performance I was looking for. I later changed to the Speed 600 and 8 cells (9.6V) and it made a huge difference. I'm not convinced how effective the cooling coil is as the flow from the outlet is not as much as I anticipated however this could be a function of the poor design of inlet that I'm using. Bottom line is I don't think the cooling coil is necessary. I make up my own battery packs and for this one I use two x four cells, one on each side of the centerline. As I previously stated I was a school boy when I built my original and the hard chines nearly made me throw in the towel. As an impatient youth it appeared to take for ever to plane them to match the bulkheads hence my switch over to laminations of 1/4 x 1/8 on my remake. Have fun and keep up with the posts. Robert
Hi Grandpa, If you go back through the build logs to 2009 you will find my build log for the Kingfisher. I first made one when I was a school boy many years ago and later came across the plans at my parents house and decided I would try and scratch build from the plans but with a few minor mods (dump the hard chine in favour of laminate strip). Its a great little boat and is very stable in high speed turns. On mine I made the bench seat a drop in accessory and opened up the bulkhead to aford extra space for the motor connections. I'm now running a Speed 600 on eight cells and its got a nice turn of speed. https://model-boats.com/builds/view/23/2 Robert
Hi Dave, good to hear from you (sorry to hijack thread). 4 footer came out two years ago, Huntsman once in 2016, Its over 3 years since the 3 footer got wet! Orca once in 2016. I did build the PCF which I really liked, but it went immediately as too many people messaged saying they wanted it, so it funded some RC plane gear, which I am really into now. I sold a load of bits and bobs at the Blackpool show a few months ago, didn't renew with St Helens in 2015, or 2016, and wont this year. However.... Robs excellent blog has got me interested again, and Stephen kindly did a bespoke 3 d printing project on something rc related, info and pics to follow when its finished! Back on track... George, I'm going to advise only things I have done, or used, I'm not one to say do this, or that, but actually I have not done it myself. No doubt others will disagree, but this is my opinion only. Best performance in terms of speed is brushless, and lipo. Forget fear of fire and explosions, this only happens with abuse, and they are the common use with rc planes, helicopters, cars, its only boats that are really stuck in the dark ages with technology that have this big fear of brushless systems and lipos! However, to get initially set up, they do take more understanding and initial cash outlay, as you need a specific charger for one, and you do need to understand what you are doing. Brushless motors will unlease the power far more than brushed, and are usually lighter. https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-t600-brushless-outrunner... This motor is an example, there are much cheaper ones with similar specs, but I have used this motor in various applications, the most similar to your boat being my large Huntsman, with this motor on 6 cells lipo I achieved 25mph, but speed might not be what you want. So if you have the fast engine in your car, say a v12 Ferrari, if you run it on cheap fuel, it wont perform, same here, nicads and nimhs batteries are easy to maintain, you can drain them dead flat, but will give cheap fuel performance, like a bath tap trickling when the shower is on at the same time, and as they are dying technology, are expensive for what they are. Lipo is like turning up both bath taps and the force floods out, but now the tank will empty quicker, so you have less run time 😊 If brushless, its a specific speed controller, https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbyking-50a-boat-esc-4a-ubec.h... and you pay extra for reversing (other rc disciplines don't need reverse) and a marine esc might need to be water cooled, however, decent brushed motor speed controllers are not exactly cheap, so now you know why budget is important to give advice, you could be spending £100 here just to get up and running. Look at my 4 foot fireboat build blog, as its twin screw (personally a boat this size is better twin screw) you can get by with cheaper motors, mine where £30 the pair, I use lipo for all my boats, so I have the batteries, and are familiar with using them, the speed controllers where about £40 the pair, and if I was buying batts then probably another £40, so it all adds up! Single screw, less batteries. You could power with nimhs, and it might be acceptable ,performance for you. If your location is Ellesmere Port, have a Sunday morning drive to Hoylake, then New Brighton, and maybe take in St Helens Liverpool, and Runcorn, see boats in action, see what sort of performance suits you, and rethink the budget, what do you want to spend? Then you need the transmitter and receiver (if you don't already have these) the fittings (see Robs build blog) a prop shaft, and a suitable propeller I am North Wirral, you are more than welcome to come and have a chat and see some boats, but unfortunately I'm deep into another rc project for the next few weeks, once that is done I can share some time, if you want! Don't worry, I'm not all about speed, I can do brushed motors and nimhs and get a result, Any questions, just ask, Paul PS... Looks like a nice clean boat you have there😉
Hi Simon. Just like Canabus I have a few of this type of boat, all with brushless motors. So just to confuse you, 😀 here is the Sea Rover I am building at the moment, the motor is a Speed 600 I have a few photos of the build if you need them. Why did I choose a Speed 600, it was in my box of bits 😀 Alan
I followed Mark's suggestion and gave the motors some running-in. After that, I found that with a small tweak on the stbd trim tab I was able to get a good speed match on the shafts with the radio control sticks at the same setting. I dropped the voltage to 6V, which is entirely adequate for the model. (I need 12V for the lighting, so I'll have to fit a voltage reducer for propulsion at some point.) During the testing I had a mishap with the batteries and have replaced the four 1600mAh batteries with two 2500mAh. These are heavier, so the model sits a little lower in the water, which will have an effect. Today was the first run in the pond after all the experimenting. Not the best conditions because there was an intermittent breeze. It appears to be better, will sail further in a straight line before it wanders off and makes a circle; still random. Next step will be to fit the larger rudders and wait for a windless day to test it. No video yet, but will try and get some on that occasion. I think progress has been made.
HI John The motors will be OK on 14.4v see below: Motor Nominal Voltage Voltage Range No-Load RPM NO-Load Current Current @ Max Effic. Stalled Current Max Efficiency Case Length Case Diam Free Shaft Length Shaft Diam Weight Speed 700 TURBO 9.6v 4.8-14.4v 15,000 2A 12.5A 65A 75% 67mm 42.2mm 14mm 5mm 320g Speed 700 BB TURBO 9.6v 4.8-16.8v 13,000 2A 15A 77A 75% 67mm 42.2mm 14mm 5mm 350g Speed 700 RACE 9.6v 7.2-9.6v 19 000 3.3A 17.5A 90A 69% 66mm 44.5mm 10.5mm 5mm 362g Speed 700 BB TURBO 12v 7.2-19.2v 11,600 2A 12.5A 43A 75% 67mm 44mm 14mm 5mm 350g As you can see there are quite wide variations in the spscs and apart from the race version all will be OK. They are fairly heavy current so you will need some beefy ESC's, probably at least 100 amp but preferably 150 amp. As you are using LiPo you will need ESCs that will cut the power to the motor when the safe discharge voltage is reached. I have a timer on my Tx that warns me before the power is reduced. There are many suppliers of ESC on the web and in the UK. I would be wary of some of the Chinese suppliers as they can and do overrate the capacity on their ESCs. If the wiring is not substantial then it is unlikely the current will be as indicated. Good hunting Dave
HI Derek The speed 600 are a good motor for fast planing boats, but are rather heavy on the current draw and don't start well at low revs. Ideally you need some low current high tork 500 size motors. Slipway used to sell a low current version for their Trent kits and Component Shop stock a 555. Assuming your batteries are 4AHr I am not surprised that they don't last long. Your only viable option to improve the duration is to replace the 600s with a low drain motor. The added benefit will be easier control round a steering course. Dave
HI Derek Yes I fully understand. The LiPo will certainly improve your speed. I moved to brushless and LiPos with my fast boats but LiPos work well with brushed motors. There is so much more power available and provided you follow the guidelines re charging and discharge cut off they are OK. You may need to fit a warning device to the boat to prevent over discharge of the LiPo but they are cheap and will save your battery (and boat). Your motor will get much hotter so you may need to consider water cooling. My speed 600s in a small Perkassa were OK on NiMhs but started cooking on LiPos. The 700BB Turbo are a much better motor and should really develop lots of power at 11.1v Hopefully your ESC will handle the fully charged voltage and higher current. Dave 😀