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    Member No.#2935
    RegisteredπŸ“…27th Jun 2014
    Last OnlineπŸ“…25th Jun 2019
    CityπŸ“Ancaster
    CountryπŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦Canada
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    πŸ‡©πŸ‡ͺ RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
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    Recent Posts
    πŸ’¬ Re: H.M.S BRAVE BORDERER
    18 hours ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    If the video does not link, it can be found on UTube under Brave Borderer blog 27
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    πŸ“ H.M.S BRAVE BORDERER
    18 hours ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    The weather has finally cooperated and have had one good outing at a local lake. The performance is consistent with the previous blog, however, observed over a much greater distance.
    At full speed on all motors the plane exposes more keel than pictures of the real vessel; but the throttle can be reduced to slow the model and lower the bow. The centre shaft performance is adequate, which helps maneuvering and also serves as a β€œget home” back-up.
    The pictures show the model at full speed with all shafts turning and at full centre shaft speed only. The brief video shows the model at full speed and then slowing as the outer shafts are stopped.
    On 1 x 4500mAh 3S battery, life is around one hour at a mixture of speeds; with both single and three shafts operating.
    In summary a great project, one that has proved both challenging and satisfying.
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    πŸ’¬ Re: H.M.S. BRAVE BORDERER
    29 days ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Would agree to an extent.
    The 3S though allows the motor speed to be reduced so the plane can be controlled. Either way after all the challenges she produced last year am happy with the outcome.
    My next project is a model of one of the R.A.F. SEAL class, a LRRC which was the last launch used before the R.A.F. Marine branch was closed.
    Just completed the hull sailing trials so will shelve project until next winter. Will eventually write a blog on it.
    Really like your Fairmile and am very tempted to build one of those further down the line.
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    πŸ’¬ Re: H.M.S. BRAVE BORDERER
    29 days ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Doug,
    Later meant the second or third address which obliterated the preceding one. Anyway,
    will try your suggestion next time I post several videos.
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    πŸ’¬ Re: H.M.S. BRAVE BORDERER
    29 days ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Thanks Doug,
    I tried that, but the later address superseded the and obliterated the earlier.
    Anyway,our experiences seem very similar. Have decided to "standardize" on the 3S. The performance is clearly superior.
    Will get a longer video on a much larger lake shortly and will post.
    Rowen
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    πŸ“ H.M.S. BRAVE BORDERER
    30 days ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Did more testing and then reprogrammed the ESCs and Rx. These changes allowed the removal of the brushless motor selection circuitry and improved the tractability of the system.
    As the videos show, a plane can be achieved with both 2S and 3S batteries. With the 3S the plane is flatter and faster. Suspect this is due to the increased vertical component of the propeller thrust forcing the rear of the vessel upwards, lifting it and lowering the bow. Of the two, the 3S resembles the original vessel pictures more closely, the bow lifts too far high with the 2S.
    The videos show the vessel in motion. The first shows a run with 2S batteries, the next two show similar runs with 3S.
    Just found cannot upload three videos on one blog. Anyway, they can all be seen on UTube under 'Brave Borderer blog'.
    Anticipate further refining of the powertrain with a future running, but doubt any significant improvements will be achieved. Performance is great anyway and am very happy with it.
    This will be the concluding post for this model.

    batteries
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    πŸ“ Fairmile c class maiden voyage
    30 days ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Have never aspired to aircraft, enjoy boats too much.
    I use a Fysky (Turnigy) FS 10 Tx which is very competitively priced. This Tx can be programmed for up to 20 models, so use it for several different boats, some multi-screwed, others single. Some with 'elevon' throttles, some conventional.
    Think this Tx would have the capability to be used for both aircraft and boats. Worth a look rather than buying a unique Tx.

    models
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    πŸ“ Fairmile c class maiden voyage
    30 days ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    I am using a Flysky 10 channel Mode 2 Tx, set up for 'elevon' control on the outer screws. The centre is controlled with the LH throttle lever.
    On the last day out, got around 50 mins of battery life running the centre screw continuously and the outers around 30% of time.
    Powertrain is:
    2 x ZIPPY Compact 2200mAh 3S 35C Lipo Pack each powers one outer shaft and one also powers the centre.
    Outer shafts : 2 x Turnigy AquaStar 2842-2800KV Water Cooled Brushless Outrunner Motor
    2 x HobbyKing 50A Boat ESC 4A UBEC
    Centre Shaft : 1 x 550 Brushed motor
    1 x Quickrun 1080 ESC
    All shafts have 35mm brass screws
    Model is about 35" OL length and performs well. She planes just like the original Brave Borderer.

    Mode 2 Tx
    outers
    Water Cooled Brushless Outrunner Motor 2
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    πŸ“ Fairmile c class maiden voyage
    1 month ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Did this on my Brave Borderer. 2 x brushless motors on outboard screws and brushed on centre using a third ESC.
    Works well
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    πŸ“ H.M.S BRAVE BORDERER
    2 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    After the trials, tribulations, experiments and frustration, can finally announce this model is sailing well. It has excellent performance and looks, both on and off the water. A build really for the more experienced modeller though. If the performance envelope is to be explored it should be done on a suitably large area of water with few other vessels around.
    However, enjoyed building a model of an unusual class of vessels. It expanded my knowledge and skills, then kept me occupied throughout a Canadian winter!
    Have also been lucky to have received considerable useful advice from other modellers, which was much appreciated.
    Building from scratch off a proprietary glass fibre hull gives a robust model with plenty of opportunity for individual input. Intend to use this approach again.
    Whilst am rather blinkered about building scale models to scale; considerable frustration, time and money could have been saved by using a single or even a twin screw layout, rather than the triple. Performance might also have been further improved and weight saved. Several of the U Tube videos of the similar Perkasa models show how well these layouts work.
    There are several photos attached;
    1) Stationary.
    2) Max. speed using the centre screw brushed motor and then the outer brushless screws on the 2S battery
    3) Max. speed using the centre screw brushed motor and then the outer brushless screws on the 3S battery.
    Because the pond is small, was unable to capture the marked differences in performance between the 2 and 3 S batteries. It will plane easily on either, just rather more frenetically on the 3!. Suspect this was because of the difficulty in coordinating acceleration, photographer and deceleration. Will endeavour to get pictures and a video that make this more obvious and post when available.

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    πŸ’¬ Re: HMS BRAVE BORDERER
    2 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Thanks all for the comments.
    The weight is rather more than expected, but attribute it mainly to the centre brushed motor/shaft/screw arrangement.
    Hoping to get some pictures later this week and will post them.
    The extra weight does not seem to impede performance, so not that concerned.
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    πŸ“ HMS BRAVE BORDERER
    2 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Getting ready for the maiden voyage after the extensive winter upgrade and stumbled across an article on programming Hobbyking ESCs.
    Have always been concerned about the β€œstuttering” of the brushless motors. This is more correctly identified as β€œcogging”, often caused by incorrect motor timing. Changed the timing to β€œAutomatic” from the incorrect previous setting, which was for inrunner motors not outrunners. Now much smoother acceleration from neutral to full speed.
    On the water, first, the brushed motor centre screw concept works well. It allows controllable maneuvering and powers the model nicely in a displacement mode. No planning, but with a reasonable bow wave. The model weight is a little high, as she rides towards the top of the boot topping.
    Tried the brushless outer screws and realized my efforts to β€œdetune” the motors were overdone. The model performance was adequate, but still had difficulty in getting both motors to run consistently and smoothly. Think the water drag was slowing the motors more that expected as they had worked satisfactory on the bench.
    Adjusted the ESC output back to 100% - much better. After 45 minutes of running the battery alarm came on, curtailing trials. She planes very much as the real vessel did, lifting the forefoot clearly out of the water. Had a spare battery, but 3S not 2. Was apprehensive about the increased power this would bring, but as the model was operating satisfactorily decided to try it.
    Better still! Motors now work consistently smoothly and in concert throughout the throttle range.
    The top speed exceeds any picture I have seen of the Brave class though. Can readily get a third of the hull out of the water.
    Will conduct more trails, but need a larger pond to give time to experiment with the various control settings. Hope to post a concluding blog with pictures shortly.

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    πŸ“ No sailing in Port Perry Ontario Canada πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦ for awhile And it is still coming down!
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Hi Ron,
    We sailed at Lake Lisgar near Tillsonburg today. Ice has gone, bit windy though. Now 17 in Ancaster.
    Be patient, one day the ice and snow will go - Inshallah!
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    πŸ“ R.A.F.SEAL CLASS
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Thanks, could not readily find anything that was more specific that the Berwick launch.
    Interesting site though, going to work my way through it.
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    πŸ“ R.A.F.SEAL CLASS
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Thanks Ron, already have that picture and have extrapolated the dimensions. Was hoping somebody had another perspective.
    If nothing else arises that will have to do
    Thanks again
    Rowen
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    πŸ“ R.A.F.SEAL CLASS
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    My next project will be the above LRRSC Launch, operated by the R.A.F. as the Marine Branch closed.
    The drawings for the vessel are generally adequate, but with one omission. The dimensions for the stern weapons recovery slipway door are not shown.
    Can anybody help advise what they were or suggest where I might find them?
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    πŸ’¬ Re: AZIZ
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Can you advise the total finished weight of the model please?
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    πŸ“ Transmitter Mode 2
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Hi Doug.
    I have the centre brushed motor on the LH stick, separate from the brushless which are on the RH. The LH side to side is now the rudder.
    The article is by Glynn Guest and is in one of this years magazines. It is called something like Modes. Sorry cannot be more specific as the mag has been passed on to other enthusiasts.
    Enjoy Malaga, should be ice free by now!

    stick
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    πŸ“ Transmitter Mode 2
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Hi Doug,
    I have now introduced the ELEVON function on my twin, independently controlled screw models. That puts both motors on the RH stick (up/down) for simultaneous speed control and LH/RH differential operation for side to side.
    Tried to explain it in more detail in a recent Brave Borderer blog update. It is also covered in a recent Model Boats mag article.
    With twin, independent motors find it so intuitive that I like it. Previously had one motor on LH stick and the other on the right. Found them difficult to synchronize and then steer accurately.
    Pity my only tests are on the bench as no sign of ice free water here yet.
    Will report water tests in due course
    Rowen

    screw models
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    πŸ“ I PHONE APP
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    It does not "kick me out" as such. Once I turn the phone off or close the App it erases the "cookie" so I have to log in again.
    This does not happen with other sites such as newspapers. Once logged in you are always in even after the phone is turned off and restarted.

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    πŸ“ I PHONE APP
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    With this new site, I find that to avoid the "Log in or Register" script across photos, have to keep on logging in. The phone does not retain my log-in details after closing the site.
    This is different from most of my other apps which retain the phone details to avoid logging in again?

    apps
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    πŸ“ New forum rankings.
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Hi Doug, not worth worrying about. Anyway, far too busy converting all my twin screw models to single lever Tx control. Seems more intuitive than the traditional dual lever.
    Signs of Spring finally, the ice is retreating so the time to get back on the water is almost nigh.
    Ice still around in Bavaria?
    R

    Ice
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    πŸ“ New forum rankings.
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Seems as if the ranking system controversy has detracted from the excellence of the updated site. Why bother at all? Much better to abolish ranking and concentrate on the hobby.
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    πŸ“ New forum rankings.
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Hi Doug,
    Probably could and also add my Teakwood and Beagle. Not interested in gong hunting though, I just enjoy the hobby.
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    πŸ“ New forum rankings.
    3 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Dave. Have experienced a similar demotion and am disappointed.
    Have written 4 build blogs and see little point in writing any more if the effort goes unrecognized
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    πŸ“ Planking
    4 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Haverlock,
    If the smell is an issue, why not try new nappy liners?

    planking
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    πŸ’¬ Neptun
    4 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Looks good Ron, what scale is she?
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    πŸ’¬ Brave Borderer
    4 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Canabus,
    Hope this helps,
    Rowen

    Using the FS-I6X instruction Manual, dated 8/10/2018.
    This Tx allows infinite experimenting with the various control functions and ultimately reverting to factory settings if dissatisfied with results.
    After several attempts at setting the ELEVON function (V-TAIL could be similar, but the Tx channels would be different), decided this works best for me. it puts both brushless ESCs on the RH control lever. Moving it up operates both screws in the forward direction and down into reverse. Going from side to side speeds up or slows down the motors, so the boat goes in the direction the lever dictates. This was accomplished by:
    1) Page 14/57 Establish the Tx Stick mode, mine was # 2.
    2) Considering ELEVON, need to determine which layout allows the Aileron and Elevator controls to be operated by same lever.
    3) Use Elevator for throttle (fwd & astern) and Aileron to β€œturn”. The Aileron will accelerate the motor on the outside of a turn.
    4) Plug Port & Starboard motor ESCs into channels 1 & 2 respectively.
    5) Refer to Para 5.10 and set Elevon mode on Tx.
    6) Use channel 4 (LH lever side to side) for rudder and Channel 3 (LH lever up / down) for any other function needing proportional control. I am using it for the centre brushed motor.
    This means that my control levers, which had previously had throttle on the LH lever and rudder on the right are now totally changed.
    There is also an article in the March edition of Model Boats that explains the concept.

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    πŸ’¬ Brave Borderer
    4 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Canobus,
    Have not done a circuit diagram yet, but can explain the Tx settings. if that will suffice can write something up shortly. The instructions are fairly sketchy.

    circuit
    instructions
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    πŸ“ Brave Borderer
    4 months ago by RHBaker ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    During our protracted wait for Spring, have had chance to reflect on the earlier tribulations with the brushless motor installation. My enthusiasm was sparked by an article on getting the best from your Tx in a magazine and the advantages of using the Elevon or V Tail facilities if available.
    My Flysky Rx/Tx has this facility, so after some experiments, set the boat up to use the Elevon function. This puts both motor ESCs on the same control lever, so advancing the control accelerates both screws equally and moving to either side accelerates, or slows the appropriate motor. Think this will reduce the coordination previously required to sail in a straight line.
    Fresh from that success decided to experiment further. The Tx allows reducing Servo throw, so tried that too so could reduce the max. ESC output, it also seems to work.
    One problem with the original layout was that if the forward speed was reduced quickly it was very easy to move the lever through the neutral point, overshooting into reverse. This immediately reversed that motor causing erratic operation. The Tx also has a β€œDual Rate” facility to adjust the lever response from linear to various alternate rates. This allows the neutral point zone to be increased, so the tendency to overshoot into reverse is reduced. Bench tests of these adjustments suggest the model will be easier to operate. Hope they will make controlling the models performance better in our closest pool, which is quite small.
    A further precaution to prevent inadvertent operation of the brushless motors when using the centre, brushed one, was to add two small relays; one into each of the white ESC signal wires. This allows a another channel on the Tx to be used to select, or deselect the brushless motors.
    Anticipate that by turning this channel and thus the brushless ESCs off, manoeuvring can be accomplished without the operation being overwhelmed by a brushed motor inadvertently being operated.
    My patience for Spring is getting thinner!

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