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>> Home > Forum > Hobby Chit Chat! > Folding Bulwark????!
Folding Bulwark????!
(852 views)
Author Message
Toby
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 66
2nd Feb 2019 21:12  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50109

Hello all.

I was just going over the plan of the cargo ship, Hunan, and found that I had missed a marking on it stating, 'folding bulwark'. I have attached an image of the plan.

Can anyone tell me about these. I presume that these bulwark sections could be laid flat on the deck to allow anything on the derrick not to crash into the bulwark. There are several of these sections in the bulwarks elsewhere and yet I can see no information on how these were held in place, or hinged.

For example its the bulwark section hinged at the bottom to allow the whole to fall to the deck or, does the top rail of the bulwark hinge back on top of the top rail preceding it and then just a flat bulwark panel rests on the deck.

Further how is it all locked in situ as a bulwark.

Any ideas anyone?

Toby


Attached Files - Click To View Large

onetenor
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 506
3rd Feb 2019 19:00  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50123

It's a gangway access point I think👍

JOHN
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 24
4th Feb 2019 18:50  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50141

hi there Toby - so we meet on this Forum 😊 I have had a good look through 2 or 3 books to name steam coasters and one of my favourite ones Merchant Ship construction (the apprentices Bible) to see if I could find any information about how the folding bulkheads were secured. Sadly, though, there doesn't seem to be any in the books - the ones I have anyway - but when I did a search on the web I came across a few interesting photographs which shows one or two of the East India ships obviously in foreign ports - but - the way they were unloading/loading the ships was they had folding bulwarks in the down position and rather large wide gangplanks running up from the shore which the natives were using to load the ships. Also, some of these ships carried livestock on deck and these folding bulwarks would ease loading of cattle etc or whatever into the pens. John

Toby
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 66
5th Feb 2019 01:25  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50151

Hello John

Thank you for looking into this subject on my behalf. Much appreciated!

What did you use as a search online because I have spent time trying to find any helpful cargo loading images and have not found an example. Did you save any of the images. Things like this and even such as correct doors present problems because the details are not on the plans.
If you can give me a lead that would be great.
I will now have another search.

Toby

Toby
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 66
5th Feb 2019 01:29  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50152

In this section of plan one can see sections of removable rails in the bulwarks and the folding bulwarks.


Attached Files - Click To View Large

JOHN
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 24
5th Feb 2019 08:33  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50154

Hi Toby the only image I saved is this one ,
I will have a look for you for more

john


Attached Files - Click To View Large

JOHN
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 24
5th Feb 2019 17:44  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50163

hi there Toby, back again - I did a quick search this morning to see if I could find any more photographs to help you - I only found the one which may be of help - to show you the loading procedure - if you note these doors open out-over on the ships' sides. One of the methods I use for finding info on a vessel is not to always type the vessel name in but go for the Company's name and go for sister ships and what the ship's trading route was. This sort of method of investigation has helped me a lot - it does side track you because you inevitably read about or come across pics of Company ships which are similar to the one you are building.


Attached Files - Click To View Large

Toby
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 66
5th Feb 2019 18:22  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50165

John
Thank you for the two photos. The second particularly is fascinating because it is the first time I have seen such. These bulwark sections open out but certainly it gives assurance that settings of bulwark were evident.

Toby

Toby
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 66
5th Feb 2019 18:33  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50168

John
Your method helped for I found an image of a door of ship yard number 550 and Hunan is 555. Likely Hunan had the same type of door? The ships were 2 years apart.

T


Attached Files - Click To View Large

onetenor
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 506
5th Feb 2019 23:02  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50177

I've just remembered I have seen these folding bulwarks on cattle boats in Birkenhead.As I recall the hinges were simple hole and pin type like a gate hinge. Held closed by a rod through overlapping plates with holes in IIRC. I don't recall the rails though as I only saw them open.👍

Toby
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 66
6th Feb 2019 10:04  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50184

Hello Onetenor,
Thank you for another helpful bit of info. I am not sure what is meant by IIRC though. I asm assuming the hinge runs along the waterway.
T

onetenor
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 506
7th Feb 2019 01:18  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50197

IIRC means If I Recall Correctly. No the hinges are vertical A La Park Gates The closing edges secured by a rod or bar dropped through holes in welded on overlapping plates with holes in them. The hinges are made likewise. Plates with holes in supported by round bars welded to plates welded to the side. Maybe to a rib or stanchion for strength. The "gates" opened outwards. I hope you can follow this and it helps.👍
P.S. Look VERY closely at BLUEBIRD'S photo. Click on it to enlarge it.🤓

steve-d
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 66
9th Feb 2019 12:39  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50247

Whilst the photo and others comments are for the bulwark opening like gates the plans the OP has show a dotted line on the deck implying, IMO, that the bulwark folds inwards to lay flat on the deck. The dotted line representing where the bulwark would lay.

Steve

RNinMunich
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 2549
9th Feb 2019 14:05  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50249

I would agree Steve, one is also clearly labelled as a Gangway access.
Cheers, Doug😎


Young at heart - slightly older in other places 😉 Cheers Doug
Toby
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 66
9th Feb 2019 16:42  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50251

Steve and Doug

Thank you. This would be my view also and thus the difficulty arises as to know how they were hinged and fastened.

Toby

JOHN
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 24
9th Feb 2019 16:46  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50253

hi there, I posted the 2nd pic of the bulwarks opening out over to show that there were various styles of openings in bulwarks. You are correct by saying the plans show a dotted line indicating that the bulwarks would fold flat to the deck / be totally removable for loading access to the ship. As far as how the sections would be secured to the deck normally I think would be strap hinges with removable pins and also angular supports from the deck to the top of the bulwark.

I have another pic which I found on the web but its got getty images ross setford stamped right over it :-) so this also shows large openings for 'gangway access' or 'access'


Attached Files - Click To View Large

Toby
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 66
10th Feb 2019 00:41  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50273

Hello John

Thank you again. I did appreciate seeing the earlier picture with a different style of opening. The latest image is a delightful period photo is it not. Beautifully lit and good colour with interesting detail.

John, re your view of bulwark hinging would you do me a favour and be kind enough to make a sketch of what you say in order that I might visualise more clearly where and how the fixings would look. From such I would be able to fashion something.

Also, with regard to removable railings when they are in situ, how are they locked or kept in place or do they just rely simply on long stemmed stanchions going in to the deck and the weight of the railings to keep in situ.

T

JOHN
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 24
10th Feb 2019 17:27  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50304

HELLO Toby well, I have done a drawing, but, I forgot to label it before I scanned it in - (if you can call it a drawing). You will see I have drawn the hinges in and also the pin that would go through the hinge, you will notice that I have drawn an oblong hole in the end of the pin and this is where a tapered wedge would be driven in to lock it into place when the pin is through the hinge. There is also a chain (the scribbled thing on the top of the tapered wedge) which would be secured to the other end of the bolt to prevent it from being lost. The pins would only be removed from the hinges when the bulwark would need to be removed completed - and - this would be lifted out of place with a ships derrick. As far as handrails go, as far as I can find out, they are located in sockets which are rivetted to the deck and a pin / bolt placed through the bottom of the railing stanchion to secure it into place. Give me a couple of days (I am expecting a couple of books in the post) which are about tramp steamers - and - it may give us some more information of what we are looking for.

Another book which I find extremely helpful (and you may have it already) is Merchant Ship Construction by H.J. Pursey It doesn't seem to have an ISBN number on this one - it was first published in 1942 :-) good book though - and sometimes it comes up for sale on u know where :-)


Attached Files - Click To View Large

steve-d
(Commander)





Forum Posts: 66
10th Feb 2019 22:28  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50310

The strap hinge could also have had a fixed pin on one half and a loop on the other in the same way farm gates are hinged. When the bulwark was folded down it could be slid sideways and off the hinge pins to remove it. When in its upright position it could not move sideways so could not come off of the pins.

Steve

Toby
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 66
11th Feb 2019 00:33  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50313

Thank you Steve and thank you John for the message and the drawing. I shall be intrigued as to what you find in your new book arrivals.

The drawing is very clear and confirms the sort of understanding I had thought from your earlier text.
Clearly the strap hinges however many they be per section would be logical and strong. Steve's farm gate comparison also would serve.

Two other questions arise, namely:
Would there be bulwark supports in these sections because they would have to be removable and fastened?
What is the locking mechanism when the bulwark section is upright in its home position and would there be some sort of keep plate to prevent the bulwark section leaning over the side.

I am just going to look online for the book you mention.

Toby
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 66
11th Feb 2019 00:37  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50314

John

I have just found an uploaded pdf of the book you cite. Off to have a peruse.

Toby

onetenor
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 506
11th Feb 2019 01:56  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50315

https://www.google.com/search?ei=xc9gXPmHL9Kf1fAPmr6I8Ag&q=+...

If you click on this one when it comes up you will get an immediate pdf download of very interesting stuff. I hope this helps.👍🤓
This also may help. https://archive.org/stream/shipsboatstheir00blocgoog/shipsbo... It mentions folding bulwarks and their stowage.👍

Toby
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 66
11th Feb 2019 05:24  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50319

Hello Onetenor

I cannot get the first link to work. It seems to bring up Google and images of hinges.

I have just found a downloaded file on my mobile concerning ship's boats. Is this the file to the link you sent?
T

Toby
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 66
11th Feb 2019 11:34  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50321

John

I have just read through the whole of the Pursey. Fascinating and helpful with good illustrations.
Toby

Toby
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 66
11th Feb 2019 11:43  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50322

If only it showed us a definitive folding bulwark system. It did give some info though. I shall go back to that and note it.

T

onetenor
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 506
11th Feb 2019 14:09  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50325

Sorry Toby I should have said scroll down to the forgotten books line. then when you click on that it automatically downloads in pdf. In my case in Adobe.A very useful file etc. Sorry for the mixup. when you open the file you should find some stuff.👍

Toby
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 66
11th Feb 2019 14:57  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50328

Thank you. I have indeed scrolled to that and it is the file that downloaded without telling me it was or had so.
In the index page 200 mentions collapsible bulwarks and this is found actually on page 212 in the pdf. It seems to refer to lifeboats and albeit a few pages several are blocked from view as are some of the drawings. I believe It said one has to be a member in order to see those pages.
I don't think that the information concerns the ship's bulwark but rather the side of a ship's lifeboat.

What was it that you read?
Am I yet in the wrong link.

T

JOHN
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 24
15th Feb 2019 16:36  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50413

hi Toby I have received 2 books I was expecting and I am sorry but there isn't any information on folding bulwarks amongst them … big side track though; they are on about turret ships and these look really really interesting, possibly a future build methinks.

I will keep looking for information for you,.

John


Attached Files - Click To View Large

Toby
(Lieutenant)





Forum Posts: 66
16th Feb 2019 17:41  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50441

Hello John

Thank you for looking through your new books!

The picture you have uploaded is indeed a curious and interesting vessel. I have never seen such before. Could make a great ahs unusual model.

I believe I have the cargo winches sorted and hope to make those next week. Now to sort an anchor winch.

I have asked a number of modellers about folding bulwarks and I have been met with no idea expression each time.
Obviously not something modellers bother with out would seem.

Regards

Toby

Colin H.
(Fleet Admiral!)





Forum Posts: 468
16th Feb 2019 18:38  
>> Permalink
mdlbt.com/50445

Have just been checking my book of merchant ship construction, there is no mention of folding bulwark up to the 1942 publication date, but a really useful book of reference to ship building.
See the pictures.
Cheers Colin.


Attached Files - Click To View Large


Fair winds and calm waters,
COLIN.