Some info. on radar, armament and wartime mods! 'Ya pays ya money and yer takes yer choice'! 😎 "Armament, electronics and protection The main armament of the Illustrious class consisted of sixteen quick-firing (QF) 4.5-inch (110 mm) dual-purpose guns in eight twin-gun turrets, four in sponsons on each side of the hull. The roofs of the gun turrets protruded above the level of the flight deck to allow them to fire across the deck at high elevations. The gun had a maximum range of 20,760 yards (18,980 m). Her light anti-aircraft defences included six octuple mounts for QF 2-pounder ("pom-pom") anti-aircraft (AA) guns, two each fore and aft of the island and two in sponsons on the port side of the hull. The 2-pounder gun had a maximum range of 6,800 yards (6,200 m). The completion of Illustrious was delayed two months to fit her with a Type 79Z early-warning radar; she was the first aircraft carrier in the world to be fitted with radar before completion. This version of the radar had separate transmitting and receiving antennas which required a new mainmast to be added to the aft end of the island to mount the transmitter. The Illustrious-class ships had a flight deck protected by 3 inches (76 mm) of armour and the internal sides and ends of the hangars were 4.5 inches (114 mm) thick. The hangar deck itself was 2.5 inches (64 mm) thick and extended the full width of the ship to meet the top of the 4.5-inch waterline armour belt. The belt was closed by 2.5-inch transverse bulkheads fore and aft. The underwater defence system was a layered system of liquid- and air-filled compartments backed by a 1.5-inch (38 mm) splinter bulkhead. Wartime modifications While under repair in 1941, Illustrious's rear "round-down" was flattened to increase the usable length of the flight deck to 670 feet (204.2 m). This increased her aircraft complement to 41 aircraft by use of a permanent deck park. Her light AA armament was also augmented by the addition of 10 Oerlikon 20 mm autocannon in single mounts with a maximum range of 4,800 yards (4,400 m). In addition the two steel fire curtains in the hangar were replaced by asbestos ones. After her return to the UK later that year, her Type 79Z radar was replaced by a Type 281 system and a Type 285 gunnery radar was mounted on one of the main fire-control directors. The additional crewmen, maintenance personnel and facilities needed to support these aircraft, weapons and sensors increased her complement to 1,326. During her 1943 refits, the flight deck was modified to extend its usable length to 740 feet (225.6 m), and "outriggers" were probably added at this time. These were 'U'-shaped beams that extended from the side of the flight deck into which aircraft tailwheels were placed. The aircraft were pushed back until the main wheels were near the edge of the flight deck to allow more aircraft to be stored on the deck. Twin Oerlikon mounts replaced most of the single mounts. Other twin mounts were added so that by May she had a total of eighteen twin and two single mounts. The Type 281 radar was replaced by an upgraded Type 281M, and a single-antenna Type 79M was added. Type 282 gunnery radars were added for each of the "pom-pom" directors, and the rest of the main directors were fitted with Type 285 radars. A Type 272 target-indicator radar was mounted above her bridge. These changes increased her aircraft capacity to 57 and caused her crew to grow to 1,831. A year later, in preparation for her service against the Japanese in the Pacific, one starboard octuple "pom-pom" mount, directly abaft the island, was replaced by two 40 mm Bofors AA guns; which had a maximum range of 10,750 yards (9,830 m). Two more twin Oerlikon mounts were added, and her boilers were retubed. At this time her complement was 1,997 officers and enlisted men. By 1945, accumulated wear-and-tear as well as undiagnosed shock damage to Illustrious's machinery caused severe vibrations in her centre propeller shaft at high speeds. In an effort to cure the problem, the propeller was removed, and the shaft was locked in place in February; these radical measures succeeded in reducing, but not eliminating, the vibrations and reduced the ship's speed to about 24 knots (44 km/h; 28 mph).["
Hi Norm, the GA I have, as on active service 1940, doesn't show any sponsons between the 2nd 4.5"AA and the director abaft the front of the island!? It also shows TWO 8 barrel pompoms starboard between the radio mast and the island! It also shows the 4.5 turrets much flatter, almost flush with the flight deck! What you have may have been later add ons. I suspect that the smaller square one was simply for access to the radio mast and the tuning unit which would be at the foot of it. Since the round one also has a door and bulwarks to stop people sliding overboard it would have been manned sometimes and I suspect that either a Quad Vickers 0.5" MG AA (see pics) or a 20mm Oerlikon AA might have been mounted there. Most carriers initially had up to 8 of these Vickers, but they were b.. useless against fast metal aircraft and were soon replaced with 20mm. So if I were you I would be tempted to put a twin 20mm on there. At some stage of the war it would be correct! The Vickers is impossible to find in a reasonable scale, only teeny weeny etch sets. I once went bonkers putting one together in 1/600 scale for my HMS Manxman, makes yer eyes go funny 😲 There are 8 at 1/350 on my Ark Royal 😡 I'm currently in contact with Adrian Smith of Battlecrafts to get some made up in 1/72. He's just done me some 4.7" guns for my 1/72 HMS Hotspur H class destroyer. Not cheap, but damn good 👍 If he ain't got it he'll make it if we can give him photos and drawing or reference sources. The original ship builder often has such an online archive; Vickers for instance. http://www.battlecrafts.co.uk/ What date are you depicting with your model? Can you post a pic of your plan? Where did it come from? I've also forgotten what Scale you are building! Aha just found it 1/192 ! Hope this helps more than confuses! Cheers Doug😎 Last pic, Illustrious, date unknown, is bit tiny but does show 'something' on sponsons aft of the 4.5s. look like twin 40mm to me, so maybe the sponsons were enlarged at this stage?
Oh I do enjoy it John, the problem solving especially, it's all the filling & sanding I'm dreading that will be coming my way shortly 👍 I'm just on with making a fixture to cut the profile of the sponsons, I'll get it finished tomorrow & give it a try Cheers Wayne
Painted the outside of the hull yesterday with the only orange Paint I could find in my relations shed . Just enough to do the job.. Dry fitted the engine and the servo just to see if I would be able to marry up the engine and the servo and Yes looks like it will work. The rudder is now on the engine instead of a dummy prop that would have done nothing and would not have been seen in the water anyway. The opposite hatch in the splash well is where I will place the on and Off switch Just looking about for some foam for the sponsons now.
So I have been doing some paint priming and still messing about with the outboard.. It now has the rudder dry fitted and it will not be seen above the waterline.. Most of the shaping is done now And I have cut out for access hatches to both to fit and get to the servo. The hatches I have got are semi waterproof and come off of some wet wipes. Now all the shapes are about right I will just carry on with a little more. And start looking about for the foam for the sponsons and some paints. This I am sure is going to be very light so with the electrics as low in the hull as possible and the foam tubes I have no Idea how much little ballast I will get away with...
I now have enough plastic to complete the Shamrock Police boat. thread here https://model-boats.com/forum/building-related/27236 And Also now have some larger pieces seems these bits are scrap as well due to the fact they fell on the floor and nobody bothered to pick them up and just walked all over them. so they have little dents in them. That is no problem for me to fill as and when I need to. So having just made a small rhib for the Shamrock about 16 inches long I thought it would be nice to make a fully working one. So I started this one is 35 inches long without the sponsons. I have All the electrics for it already ( Hand me downs ) so no nothing to loose. So this could be the model that costs nothing to make and build. No Plans or drawings or templates and now under way. All constructed out of 2mm foam board plastic.. Held together with electrical insulating tape while the glue dried. I will have a bit of filling and sanding to do when it is a single solid piece. Now comes the part of working out some sort of rough scale for the completed hull. In the meanwhile forming the chines out of the same plastic but very thin strips. Not found any bright Orange paint yet but still looking . If all fails it will be a white rhib. I am thinking with the foam collar the weight of the electrics placed as low as I can get them I may need very little ballast As so far it is very light. Still as always another lets see how it turns out..
I'd been trying not to measure it to be honest, it will be 1.8m long from the tips of the sponsons the end of the jet pipe, gulp... I've roughly cut out the sponsons now, lots of sanding to do now👍 Cheers Wayne
Hi Wayne I do believe my friend is the best person to speak with as he does a lot of self build fast boats. Good luck with the sponsons the process you describe is proven but I suspect you will have a steep learning curve from being a novice. I do know Darren uses Kevlar in his models to make them structurally strong and light. I understand your logic regarding ICvElectric but high speed runs need to be kept straight to avoid the boat overturning so they tend to be of short duration in any case. As you already have a couple of model running on brushless I suggest you get them operational and see how they sail. You will then be in a better informed position to plan a way forward. If you can find a local club they will be able to offer hands on help which should help your progress greatly. Dave
Hi Dave, That looks like a really nice piece of water! I have a massive appreciation for the work, skills & dedication involved in building & running accurate scale models. My fascination is with fast boats, K7 in particular & although the design is over 60 years old now, it's still a bit of a hooligan. It just didn't occur to me that someone with a boat like mine would be welcome amongst the scale community, at first scan through list of clubs there isn't anything on my doorstep, I'll have to increase my radius. My skill levels are limited but as they say every day is a school day & I'm picking up new knowledge & skills as I go along. The concern for me between IC & Brushless is on one hand add fuel & run for hours vs add batteries & run for minutes. 240+ amp esc's can cost the same as a half decent 30cc IC engine but to be honest for me the sound of electric motors is far more preferable to IC. I guess I need to take on as much advice as possible before I start splashing the cash. I'm certainly not pigheaded enough to ignore advice given, that's for sure. I've seen a video on YouTube of a guy building an aeroplane fuselage without a mold, by creating a blue foam plug & fibreglassing over it, once the fibreglass has been smoothed & filled it is split to remove the foam core, he ended up with a large lightweight fuselage that only needed minor bracing to make it strong enough to fly. This idea really appealed to me so I went out today and bought a load of blue foam, I'll have a go at building the sponsons first & see how I get on... Cheers Wayne
Hi all, my first post so please be gentle with me. I'm Wayne from Colne in Lancashire, I'm very new to the hobby. I started building a brushless prop driven 1/12 scale Bluebird K7 late on last year, I'd got the plans from Canada & they were at best very poor. At first it was 1 step forwards & 2 steps back but I've progressed to the point where it's "alive", just the canopy to vacuum form & fit & it will be ready to paint. During the backwards steps I've also built a 1/24 scale K7 for my grandson, just the sponsons to fit then it will be ready for paint also. I've managed to lay my hands on the Nexus K7 plans at 8.4/1, I figured go big or go home so I had them doubled in size so they are now at 4.2/1, I just can't afford to put a turbine in is so I'm planning to put a couple of 27cc tiger king engines in it. It's going to be an expensive build so I'm collecting "stuff" for the build. I've managed to get hold of an old Dumas short stuff fibreglass kit that I'm going to build for my grandson & ive just got a bigger hull off eBay for £30. Can anyone identify this hull? Sorry for the long post!!! Cheers Wayne
A beam was needed to support the pivot for the feathering mechanism. It was made to straddle the gap between the two sponson supports. There’s even less information available about this than there was for the feathering mechanism. My second attempt was the best solution and comprised the following parts. - Two 3/8” lengths of ¼” brass angle; with a clearance hole drilled in the top flange near one end, to suit the small sheet metal screws I had on hand - A length of 1/8” x ¼” rectangular brass tube to span the gap between the sponsons. - Approx 2” length of ¼” x 0.030” thick brass strip - A ½” length of ½” wide by 0.030”thick brass strip - A 7mm length of 3/16” brass tube as a bushing for the pivot. The rectangular tube was cut to length to fit across the sponson supports and inside the paddle boxes. The two pieces of ¼” angle were soldered at right angles under the ends of the 1/8” x ¼” tube. The paddle wheel and the beam were placed in position. The paddle wheel was set up while stationary to position the paddles so that one was on bottom dead centre and vertical. The axial position of the pivot point centre was marked on the beam, and the distance below the edge of the beam measured. The top edge of the ½” square strip was intended to be flush with the top of the beam, and a 3/16” hole was drilled through the former at the pivot point centre. This was soldered to the ¼” wide brass strip, and then the 3/16” tube soldered into the hole. The drill press was used to set it at right angles to the strip for soldering. The strip was joggled, to ensure the rotating paddles cleared the support beam, and with the 3/16” tube on the side nearest the hull. The brass strip was clamped to the support beam, with the complete assembly in place, and the pivot position adjusted to give the optimum motion of the mechanism. The brass strip was soldered to the support beam, and then removed and painted.
Max, one advantage of glueing the boxes In place Is being able to make the handrails, which run down the boxes and onto the sponsons, as one piece and secure them. Scott, mostly scratch; apart from the Items noted below, everything will be scratchbuilt, I.e, decks, sponsons, superstructure. It's 48" long. Roy
HI Hammer Thanks for that, I'm now a bit ahead of you having fixed the sponsons to the removable upper deck, rather like your Glen Usk with the sponson platforms fixed to the hull ! I'm really Impressed by your models, mine will seem very basic by comparison. regards Chris
HI Hammer Thanks for your Input. It's freelance taking Influences from many pictures of Paddlers, mainly around Edwardian times but also using what bits I have or am capable of producing. I'm thinking of attaching the Sponsons directly to the removable upper cabin and deck as they need to be clear of the paddles to allow them to be adjusted or removed. I could then fix sponson platforms direct to the hull to meet up with the sponsons when the whole cabin / sponson assembly Is fittted. We shall see ! Chris