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This is a first try at a simpler quieter smoke unit. I used the smoker box/element off the Heng Long tank/car smoker unit with a 40x40 5v fan (the fan being voltage controlled by a 5v UBEC and the lot being run by a 2s Lipo (with a y splitter for the fan UBEC and the element using JST leads. Doesn't smoke that well as I had broken then repaired the element previously, but the other one I have smokes a lot better, and has a better type of element (possibly a newer version) Some photos etc on the smoker discussion. Unit is almost silent (the noise you hear is the camera and outside noise, as the window was open)
Have just made a prototype of a fan forced smoker which seems to be working well (despite breaking the heater coil by moving it while hot, - had it apart, broke wire, screw and washer repair, not quite as hot) I bought a couple of Heng Long smokers (for R/C tanks or cars) to play with, for $10 NZ each(or 5.3 Euros to you Northerners give or take a yen) from Bangood and just bought another from Ebay. There seem to be 2 different models, as one has a long coil with a lamp wick draped over it, which is sitting in the oil reservoir, the other has a small coil inside a piece of heat resistant woven tubing (as you might find insulating toaster/heater wiring etc) which acts as a wick and that also sits in cotton wool in the reservoir, (this seems to be the better of the two) Tip - don't fill the tank right up, only enough to soak the cotton, element should be just out of the oil. The wick loads the element. The better model seems to have a black top to the tank (also maybe either brown or black tank) and the other has a brown top and dirty brown tank. As with most of this stuff you won't know till you get it what it's going to be. What I did was remove the tank and cut off the pump tube just in front of the screw lugs (see black line in photo) then fitted the tank, and a 40x40x10 5v ESC fan (voltage controlled by a UBEC set to 5v on the jumpers) into a plastic electronics utility box from Jaycar (our local electronics and hobby store). I made up a double JST lead for the 2s 1800Mah Lipo and fired it up (using baby oil). It's pretty much silent and smokes well once it gets warmed up, ( starts smoking in about 5 seconds) You could control it (on/off volume) by either a remote on/off switch or perhaps a small cheap 10A brushed ESC. I would leave the fan running and control the element to avoid burning the element. The original pump tank inlet hole seems ok as is (approx 1.5mm) but you could enlarge it very slightly to get a better flow if you could find a better oil. At the electronics store they have proper smoke machine oil for $20 NZ per litre so I may have a look at that. The reason I went for the fan idea was that I found in std pump form, if I immersed a tube from the tank in water, it sucked water back into the tank. I was hoping it would pump smoke out of my HSL exhausts at water level alongside the cooling water but it would need a very light non return valve to do this. The fan seems to pump the smoke through 2mm ID silicone tube ok, so tubing of similar ID to the OD of the tank outlets should work well. These pumps in original form work pretty well for the price, and are cheap enough to keep a few for spare elements, the only thing is they are a bit noisy but in an 'engine sounding' way, (might add to the effect on a tug or work-boat though) What you have left after this mod is a very handy little geared motor with an eccentric output wheel which could be used for winches, radar and whirly bits of any description (see pic of motor leftover and original) To avoid burnout, these should be run on no more than a 2s (around 7.5v-(suggest 8v max with fan running) The other tank is going to work a lot better than this one but I'm not making a tug, just want a bit of exhaust smoke on start-up etc to go with the 2 sound units. Very cheap to make (around $25 NZ with pump, box, fan and UBEC all through Ebay, Aliexpress and Bangood (and local electronics store) If you wanted to run an ESC to control the smoke and you have no channels left to control it proportionally, you can always try using a second receiver bound to your TX, (if your TX will allow it,) power it and a brushed ESC (wired to the element) as normal and use the throttle channel to plug in your smoke control. This should work if you want more smoke as you accelerate or if you are using only 1 stick on a 2 stick TX you could use your 'elevator' stick pushed up (or a toggle switch if available) to start/stop the smoke (through the brushed ESC setup) . This setup weighs 100g (10g more than std) The quest for lots of smoke continues Will try to upload vid later and update progress.
Hi Steve, I have the same problem with the ESCs in my HSL. They are cheap Chinese car models and can be a bit tricky to get into reverse quickly. I have found that either waiting a few seconds in neutral before trying reverse, or going to neutral and flicking the throttle forward a few clicks and back to neutral quickly (in .5 sec) usually sorts it. I think it may be that the motor stops somewhere that the cheaper ESCs can't detect (bit like an old car starter that hits the bald spot on the ring gear and you have to jog it a bit) so you have to move it slightly for it to 'see' it (maybe the capacitors also). Brushed ESCs don't have that problem as the brushes are in constant contact, rather than relying on correct positioning in Brushless motors. You will also find that some Chinese motors are not timed/wound correctly, and you can feel weak or 'floaty' spots between certain magnets which may also cause a problem. Perhaps trying a higher or lower ESC timing by 1 step either way might help if you have that capability. If it works by just flicking the throttle method, you can just slow down as you come in and take you time finding reverse in a scale like manner (remember the PT109 movie where they went through the shed on the wharf) You can also try swapping the other pairs of wires on the motor (same direction but different pairs). If you are still not happy then it might be time as Doug said, for a better ESC with instructions. Get one which has all the programing features, (fwd, rev , timing, auto batt detection (lipos or NmH etc) starting mode- ie soft,hard, brake etc) this will give you plenty of options for adjustment. Doesn't have to be a marine one, a good known brand car/buggy one will do and if you have any heat problems you can always put a mini fan on it. Water cooled marine ESCs are really only for high amp high speed setups. My 36"HSL has 2x 30A car ESCs running 2x 28/45 2000kv water cooled motors and ESCs never get even warm. Pictured are the ESCs I am using from HK which have an output plug for a fan if needs be. The 3rd pic is the brushed ESC types (EBay, AliExpress) I am using, which have no problems with reverse transition (see vid section re Thornycroft MTB maneuvering) also the HSL vids to give you an idea of how these brushless ESCs perform even with the minor reversing problem. Hope you get it sorted.
Steve, have you calibrated the throttle first? (read 2 and 2.2) on the instructions, You have to give the ESC a full, low and mid-point throttle position before you can start the programming. Plug in motor and ESC BEC lead into throttle position in REC. Turn on TX and give it full throttle. (make sure motor is held firmly as it may kick hard if started) Program - plug in batt wait 2 secs for beeps then wait 5 secs for musical tone (now in program mode) wait for 1,2,3 or 4 beeps (asks which program you want and will keep cycling through till you chose one) as soon as you hear the no of beeps for the program you want quickly pull the stick to the bottom and wait for the reply,- it will now cycle through the programs in step 3. Choose the one you want in the same manner as the last selection but by moving the stick to full throttle (if you miss it it will cycle round again) Hold it there and it will reply (musical beeps) wait and the program will return to step 2 and you can select the next setting to enter and repeat the process. Safest to set Auto battery and then the others as per chart especially min batt volts. Once happiness filled, follow the Program Exit instructions (step 4) Also as 'RN' previously mentioned, if you have a Futaba, you may have to reverse the throttle to make it all work. When finished, unplug batt, turn off TX, re start everything (TX, Batt/RX) and check. AS A PRECAUTION,MAKE THROTTLE NEUTRAL BEFORE RE STARTING IF YOU HAVE SET FWD AND REV, OR LOW IF NOT. BE AWARE THROTTLE MAY BE REVERSED ALSO). You may have to have a few goes but you will get there and realize it's not that difficult after all . If in doubt just un-plug the battery and start steps again. Just think of it like the ESC is asking you "do you want this"? at a particular set of beeps, and you are replying by moving the stick, or ignoring that question and moving to the next one. If you are using a pistol grip TX just let the trigger go and it will give you neutral/center (as per instructions 2.2
Been thinking how I could build a compact sealed electric smoke generator with a pump to push the smoke through the exhausts, along with the cooling water on my HSL. Are the model train smokers not big enough for your purposes. You could just copy one of those and enlarge it perhaps. From what I remember from my train days they were not too complicated. How about an upside down ic glow plug with a variable voltage regulator in the bottom of a tube with a low temp oil ? You could possibly use a small brushed ESC for the regulator and come up with a controlled drip feed replenishing system. Just seen a site SMOKE EL in Germany which makes smokers for ic and electric planes but they look expensive and complicated,- work well though,-vids on site.
[Score: 5/10] 40"/2800g Rough Rider Single Propellor (2 Blade X Type 50mm) Direct Drive to a O/S 45FSR then O\S 45RSR (2 Blade X Type) - Comments: 40" fiberglass Prather hull (1980s). Still have this hull, future twin electric fit out .
[Score: 5/10] 36" Tunnell Single Propellor (2 Blade X Type 50mm) Direct Drive to a K+B 45 o/b (2 Blade X Type) - Comments: Own design Tunnel Hull built with marine ply mid 80s. Canopy was own fiberglass moulding. K+B 45 o/b
[Score: 5/10] 36"/1500g Turtle Single Propellor (2 Blade X Type 45mm) Direct Drive to a O/S 40 max (2 Blade X Type) - Comments: Own design deep V racing boat built in the early 70s Fiberglass over balsa.
[Score: 5/10] 30"/1200g Graupner 'Commodore' Capable of 4mph and a runtime of 20mins Twin Propellors (3 Blade 30mm) Powered by NiCad (6v) Batteries Controlled Through 1978 Futaba 18v propo F+R ESC - Comments: Purchased the kit in 1978, while working on Norfolk Island (South Pacific) and built it in 1979. ABS hull, ply deck and balsa and ply cabin. Was a nice model, shouldn't have sold it. Would have been great with modern gear.
[Score: 5/10] 36" Wilhelm G Capable of 3mph and a runtime of 50mins Single Propellor (3 Blade 40mm) Direct Drive to a 540 (3 Blade) Powered by Lead Acid (12v) Batteries - Comments: Scratch built 'freelance' tug carved from a solid 12''x 12''x 45" block of driftwood in the 70s Wheelhouse was ply. Motor controlled by a set of car points for on/off. Had 2 different cabin styles and rails in its life. Had lights. Radio was Futaba 'brown box'on 27mhz.
[Score: 5/10] 38"/2500g Titan Capable of 3mph and a runtime of 40mins Single Propellor (4 Blade 40mm) Direct Drive to a 540 (4 Blade) Powered by Lead Acid (12v) Batteries Controlled Through none ESC - Comments: Built this in the 80s. Carved from a block of foam and fiberglassed (hull and deck). Wheelhouse was ply, everything scratch built to own design. Had 540 motor with a set of car points for on /off. had lights that could be switched on by deck switch. Radio was Futaba 'brown box' on 27mhz.
[Score: 5/10] 35"/1000g 'Maiami' ASR Capable of 5mph and a runtime of 60mins Single Propellor (3 Blade 25mm) Direct Drive to a 380 (3 Blade) Powered by LiPoly (7.4v) 2Amp/h Batteries Controlled Through China (5Amps) ESC - Comments: Knocked this up in around 6 weeks ('free modelling',-no plans, just looking at a few photos) for my son but he wasn't interested (the dreaded Playstation) so I re assigned it to myself and put a few more bits on it. The whole boat is balsa and just enamel painted so it is quite light. Only single shaft and runs well, but thinking of making it a twin set-up with better motors and shafts. mostly gets used as a camera boat as it is very stable.
[Score: 5/10] 31"/1100g Fairacre Capable of 5mph and a runtime of 60mins Single Propellor (2 Blade X Type 35mm) Direct Drive to a Graupner 400 monoperm (2 Blade X Type) Powered by LiPoly (7.4v) 2Amp/h Batteries Controlled Through China (5Amps) ESC - Comments: Fairacre plan built (RCM I think, early 70s) Rescued from rubbish bin on farm, rebuilt hull and f/glassed. restored, varnished and re 'glazed' cabin and added grab rails, mast , lights, curtains (leftovers from a Graupner Commodore I built in the 70s) cleats and boarding platform. Restored the deck and varnished. Fitted new prop shaft and rudder and made name decals. cleaned and painted hull interior.
[Score: 5/10] 36"/2400g MTB 49 Capable of 5mph and a runtime of 60mins Twin Propellors (3 Blade 25mm) Direct Drive to a 380 27MM (3 Blade) Powered by NiCad (7.2v) 2Amp/h Batteries Controlled Through CHINA (5Amps) ESC - Comments: Scratch built Thornycroft MTB from a 1960s Vic Smeed plan. Boat is 40yrs old from start till now. Bought plans in 1968 and finished 20 yrs later working on and off. Was twin prop with single Futaba ESC, on 27Mhz then an Electronize ESC on FM 40 Mhz now have just converted it to twin car ESCs and added a sound unit and is now run on 2.4 . Has a 100mm 12v computer fan for cooling with heat sinks on the motors. Has separate cabin lights and running lights.
[Score: 5/10] 36"/2900g RNZAF W1 Capable of 10mph and a runtime of 40mins Twin Propellors (3 Blade 25mm) Direct Drive to a TGY 28/45 2000KV INRUNNER (3 Blade) Powered by LiPoly (7.4v) 2Amp/h Batteries Controlled Through CHINA (5Amps) ESC - Comments: 36" Scratch built model of RNZAF W1, a British Power Boat 64ft HSL. Has twin brushless motors, twin ESCs, twin sound units, water cooling pump, full lighting and r/c switches for lights and pump. Took approx 5 yrs to buid on and off. hull is strip planked and f/glassed, deck is ply, wheel house is balsa.
Doug, you are probably correct and good thought regarding the polarised caps , but I was just thinking that if the battery input was going through a fuse system as it appears in Rowens photos (difficult to see) it may have caused a slight problem. I have seen mentions of up to 12" between batt and ESC being no problem at lower Amps. You might notice that one of the inputs was from a guy from Castle Creations (USA) which I thought would give a bit of weight to the information. I have always gone with the ESC manufacturers suggestions regarding wire length and have never had a problem in boats or planes (mainly in planes,-18 most 'converted' to electric from IC -3 capable of pulling 1200W) It's great to be able to chuck ideas and info around, as we can all pick something out of it all which will solve a problem, or perhaps stop us from toasting an electronic component or whatever. BTW, I saw somewhere that extending the wires could cause stuttering and that was one other reason for mentioning the info, as I know Rowen's had a problem with that. I'm sure it will be ok as is,- if its working fine, and it's not going to be run flat out every day it will probably last for years. Probably me thinking on the cautious side as my personal approach to building is to use the K.I.S.S method (may not be the flashest but usually keeps me out of trouble) Regarding the quality of ESCs, you will find that many have the same internal bits just with different cases and colours, (same with chargers) HK is bad for this. Many I have seen use an Atmega chip and you can tell differences by the programming method (some you have to do 1 step and disconnect power before the next step, others just with stick forward center back center etc. Most boards are made in China (Castle Creations and a few others being exceptions) and what you get depends on the quality of assembly/soldering etc in the plant they are made in (if you want to see how many of these items are made in China check out Made In China.com and search ESCs for example. I have cheap ESCs I've used in my planes for years with no probs which look like the HK Red Brick ESCs (except blue) and they are better than the TGY branded ones at 3x the price, and really let the power through !. Even CC have apparently made boards for HK with different cases as have Hobbywing. It's really a case of "you pays ya money and ya takes ya chances". In saying that you are pretty safe with Hobbywing, Tamya, SkyRc, or Castle Creations (USA) but there are other better non China ones around but a a much bigger price. Hope we aren't overloading you Rowen, you might have to get into the 'anti-freeze' to soothe the brain in that cold weather. Another site for you to check out which I have found to be very good, with prices to match HK is RCEcho.com (Hong Kong) Have bought most of my aircraft ESCs from them (around 28 from 30A-120A with no probs)
Thanks for the nice comment, and yes it is a very nice pond, except when there are a lot of those things with rags tied to sticks racing (shouldn't say that as I've sailed full scale all my life and still have 2 small yachts), and the buoys they leave there are a pain also, (easy to forget they are there) It was full of hire carp (yes hire carp) which were removed as the council wasn't paying the company or some such hassle, but I'm sure they missed some and they will soon multiply and keep the weed down. Bought the plans for the MTB around 1968 and took around 20yrs to finish it. I still have the plans and it only took me about 40yrs to find a photo of the original boat (bit late by then!).
Don't know what happened to my last post but I'll try again. This link, https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1148637-wire-... may be a useful read and explain what I am on about (rough idea in pic). I don't think too many people are aware of some of the problems which can be caused by altering Batt to ESC wiring. I don't think its too much of a problem at lower voltages but see what you think. Not sure if you have a throttle curve facility on your new TX but if it has, using that you can create a gentle start, ramping up steadily, no matter how fast you push the stick up. You can ram the stick up but it will only follow the curve you set. eg pic showing random curve (you can make this any shape you want to control any function) there are usually a number of curves you can set and save for throttle, rudder - anything you want to control automatically. Not sure about your TX but my 9xr even has a feature whereby you can slow the servo action down (I use that on my Piper Super Cub flaps which come down slowly in 2 stages (2 pos switch) and go up faster. Your new TX probably has a lot of these features and once you find how to use them it will open up a whole new world of fun. Another example of what you can do with these computer radios is, on one of my models I am using 'flapperons' to slow it for landing and as the ailerons come down the elevator is mixed to move up to compensate to stop the plane nosing down. It's pretty much endless what you can do. I'm still exploring after 8 yrs of computer radio use. I remember a guy somewhere talking about the flashing lights on his plane and saying it wasn't the lights on a flasher unit it was the TX telling them to flash.
I've sailed and re-rigged small full scale yachts and catamarans all my life and never seen a fitting like that. Perhaps it was put there as a halyard or stay 'tidy' for storage purposes? looks more like an upside down boat cover tie down clip or part of a latch. Perhaps try the door and lock section at your local hardware super store. Found this on google. As the other guys have said though, probably hand made. Usually, no rigging fittings on yachts have square edges unless they are part of a fitting.
Just converted this 40yr old twin brushed model (scratch built from a Vic Smeed plan) to a proper independent twin system plus a sound unit. Started off with a 70s Futaba ESC on 27mhz, then on FM, then replaced with an Electronize unit on FM, then to 2.4 and now on 2.4 with twin ESCs and converted TGY S6 (twin throttles). Maneuvers a lot better and makes a better noise.
Rowen, here are a couple of things that may be of use to you (and others). The battery alarm will save you worrying about running out of steam as they can be set to beep at varying voltages to warn you of low battery, just put one on each batt balance lead and when one goes off (when an individual cell drops below the set voltage) it means start heading back. These can be picked up on Ebay for a few dollars. I use them on my planes as well and are audable from around 100m (these twin horns are the best) Secondly, re your ESC switches, these electronic switches (AliExpress) are great for this sort of thing (as long as you have enough aux switches on TX ) You can link them with a Y cable to work together or use them independantly for anything, (lights, pumps etc, - they can be operated by TX rotary switches as well) The ESC and 2000kv motor (HK) are the ones I am using in my ASR model and will work smoothly down to a crawl, the purple 1980 kv seems to have superseded these but I think they will be as good. The props are from Ali Express and are resin and available in L and R hand, are only a few bucks and perform perfectly while looking quite scale(ish). I painted them with an acrylic bronze which seems to have stayed on pretty well. Model weighs 2.8kg and will run at more than 10mph flat out with this set-up (using the 26mm L+R) props) which is silly speed and that's with 2x 2s 2200mah lipos (which will last till you get sick of it and still have 60% left) I was just looking at your Daman set-up and noticed the wiring method from the batts to the ESCs. You might want to make your batt to ESC connections direct to your ESCs (as per original ESC lead length)as your capacitors may get a thrashing (spikes) due to the extra length/ resistance you have there. There is a general rule that you don't lengthen the batt to ESC wiring without adding a 220mf capacitor of same voltage as the ESC for every 4"of extra wire length (ESC to motor - not so much). Might want to check this out in case you fry your ESCs You probably have thought of this but thought I'd mention it, 'just in case' Might help with your modulation as well. Have chucked in a vid of the HSL manouvering (first trials so wasn't perfect) and also the MTB (brushed) which I have just converted to a twin system (was twin but single Electronize unit) plus a sound unit. You may know that you can use as many RECs (bound to the same TX) for various purposes on the same boat (have run 2 boats together from the same TX) Might get you round the mixed brushless/ brushed problem with a bit of thought. Have you thought of changing your old HK silver 6DF TX to twin throttles, it's a piece of cake(as is the TGY 6x), just remove the aileron/rudder centering spring and make a friction plate as per throttle stick, and use the elevator channel as your other throttle. Set your ESCs and you can then use a twin system giving you perfect control. Saves a lot of hassle.
The only thing you might have to watch out for is back feed from the pump out the aux tube (when moving) if you don't set up the y joints (must be y not T ) to create a venturi effect from the pump side. Doesn't matter standing still but at speed a T junction might reduce the flow as the flows will be fighting each other slightly. The beauty of the twin system is that if you are running a lot at high speed you could turn the pump off to save power. The best place to position water intakes is I have found is directly behind the prop (I usually just squash the brass tube slightly, fair it, cut it off at 45 deg and set it to just sit in the prop wash). At lower speeds especially, the prop will help to push water into the tubes rather than just relying on speed alone. Never had a problem with pickups interfering with rudder effectiveness as long as you fair the pickups nicely
I used this pump from E Bay which pumps well, and with the rubber mounts is quiet. 6-12v (I use a 2 cell LiPo which seems perfect) and am cooling 2 2000kv 28mm in-runners. Have tried a few different pumps and these have been the best so far. You have to be careful that you don't over pressurize your plumbing system, as if the hoses come off while running you can fill your boat up in no time. It's safest to adjust your pump voltage or piping to a 'neutral' pressure rather than risk hosing down your electrics. I used twin pick-ups behind the props and separate feeds, one for the pump and one direct in case the pump stopped or blocked.