Hi Bob,
It's very much a question of what sort of daggerboard you intend using, there's no hard and fast rule, just make the box to suit the daggerboard. On a 30" barge, I have used the bulb and fin from a ready to run model yacht and it worked fine. I have also used a strip of 1/4" brass which needed a heftier box than the bulb and fin. Mastman make firbreglass mouldings for a keel, but only for 42" barges. This you fill with lead shot and resin to the required weight. They are bolted on through a strengthening piece inside the hull and can thus be removed for travel or display. These are the most popular answer. Position of the keel or daggerboard. Just abaft the mast, inside the main hatch so that you can get to it. If you are technically minded you will probably want to work out the CLR and the Cof E. I'm not and just put it where it looks right. As like the bargebuilders of old, I work on the adage, that if it looks right, it probably is. All my barges sail alright.

Cheers, Nerys

Multi purpose, Doug, but please don't let this drag on.

Nerys

I'll tell you anyway, Doug,
The farmyard, cows and horses.
Nerys

Hi Dave,
When I first started, the sails were still dressed traditionally. They would be laid out on a large grassy patch, then several men would come along with the dressing. This was a mixture of Red ochre, Cod oil, Urine and salt water. It was applied to the canvas with long arm brushes. left to dry, which it didn't and would then be rolled up, taken to the barge and bent back on If the sail had previously been dressed, the men carrying it would be a reddish colour by the time they laid the sail out, but by the time they had taken the sail back to the barge, would be completely red from head to foot. Even stowing the topsail or the foresail, one got plastered in the muck and resembled a Red Indian. The dressing never really dried. Sails were usually dressed when the barge went on the yard for a refit. Nøwadays, more modern dyes are used which are fast
A barges vangs are very important because they control the upper part of the rig, i.e. the topsail and do not allow the sprit and thus the topsail to sag down to loo'ard. They help retain an aerodynamic shape to the combined main and topsails.

Cheers,
Nerys

Hi Bob, I was speaking generally when suggesting trips to the East Coast, but I am sure you could find lots of photos on line and learn a lot from them. I hope the information I gave will be of some use to you, but if you want clarification of anything, I will do my best to help. I agree with you, make a long narrow box and stick solid carved ends on to it, simplifies things . A lot of people do that..
Best of luck,
Nerys

So much information. Anything I say is based on what I have found after building several model sailing barges as well as a couple of auxiliaries and motor barges In my youth, when sailing barges still earned a living carrying cargo, I spent years as mate and skipper.
Generic barge or scale model, who cares, most real barges were built by eye, very few were actually designed on paper, some were built from a carved half model. Performance varied enormously. Of the plans of model barges extant today, Celia Jane is renowned for being a poor sailer. As far as fitting a motor is concerned, some modellers do, some don't. Real sailing barges didn't have motors until roughly post war when it became popular to fit an engine, after that, the barge was rarely sailed. Some just had the mizzen removed, some had the topmast and topsail taken away. Didn't matter , a sail was rarely used. Pure sail was still in use into and after the 'fifties, in 1954, there were about thirty still trading under sail alone. Cargo carrying, my little Nellie carried about 100 tons of cargo, she was about as small as they get apart from some specially built barges, such as Lady of the Lea or Cygnet. Most barges carried about 120 to 150 tons. Goldsmiths built some 180 and 200 tonners in steel, then Everards had their four steel 300 ton barges.(One of which, the Will is still with us) There were a few 180 ton wooden barges, the Beryl of Faversham for one, I was mate on her for two years.
Sheeting the sails. On a full size barge the foresail was sheeted with a chain to a horse going right across the fore part of the barge, just afore the mast. It was not adjustable.It went across the barge to the side on which it filled. When tacking, the mate held the sail to windward in order to help blow her head round . I make my models the same way, the sail just blows across to the correct side when tacking.The main sheet comes from the clew of the sail through two large blocks to ring on the horse, again this goes all across the barge abaft the main hatch. This also controls the topsail. Also controlling the main and topsail is the vang, pronounced wang, which is a wire going from the end of the sprit on both sides, down to a tackle on both sides of the barge. This allows the sprit to be eased off when running and hauled in when tacking. In a model barge most people combine the falls from vang and mainsheet into one, so that only one servo is needed. I have found that a servo with an arm works quite well, though many use a drum winch. The mizzen is of little use as a driving sail, the sheet goes down to the rudder and it is mainly used as an aid to steering when tacking.
Many people build models plank on frame, but often using balsa carved to shape for the two ends. There are also a number of fibreglass hulls on the market, a firm called Mastman are good suppliers and make hulls for a number of named barges. I found their James Piper to be very successful.
Sails. If the sails look crinkly, they have been badly cut, set properly, a barges sails are as flat as on any yacht. I make mine out of polycotton, which is readily available in a number of shades on E bay. Many people use cotton then die it.. All the sails on a barge would be the same colour brown, except the staysail which was a light weather sail left undressed, so white. New sails were left white for a year or two before being dressed. Topsails very often had either the owners badge or name painted on or sometimes advertising.
Steering. The usual thing is to build an arm out to one side from the top of the rudder and connect with a rod to an arm on the steering servo. You can use an arm on both sides. Both work well.
Keels. A barge has a flat bottom with leeboards to prevent making leeway (being blown sideways). She will sail well loaded or empty. A model is not like that. People have tried to sail models ballasting the hull and using leeboards. It doesn't work. You need a keel. Weight, about 6 or 8 pounds in a 42" barge. bulb and fin works, but a fibreglass moulded keel filled with lead is good. These are available from a small firm called Mastman, who also make fibreglass hulls and a wide range of fittings that are only found on barges. Their email is ktinklin1592@yahoo.com
If you are building a model barge, I suggest you look at as many pictures of barges as possible or if you live somewhere on the East Coast, go and look at the real thing. they are dotted around, there are always some on Maldon Quay, Ipswich dock, Iron Wharf, Faversham are the traditional home for others. If you are really interested, join the Thames Sailing Barge Trust., they , like many other barge owners, take passengers on trips ranging from half days to a week on my old command, Centaur, now 127 years old and still going strong.
Best of luck.

Nerys

Me too!

Nerys

Hi Roy,

Yes, Richard was a marvellous source of information, it was a great pity when he decided to resign, he's never been replaced. Apart from the building side of barges, he also used to organise a full programme of racing for model barges and of course, that's all gone, though I see, as chairman of the Phoenix Marine model Club he has arranged a model barge meeting at the Silvermere Golf Club in Surrey for 26th June.

Cheers, Nerys

I'm afraid AMBO ceased to exist some months ago, which is a great pity, whether Richard Chesney, the former secretary still has any plans, I do not know, but it is possible. Suggest you look up the Thames Sailing Barge Trust online. They can supply several plans as well as owning two preserved barges, Centaur and Cabby. Special, interest, I was the last skipper of Centaur before she was sold out of trade in 1955. you could also look up a company called Sarik, who do the plans and part kits of a famous racing barge Veronica. As far as scales, there are two in use, 1/24 and 1/33, that equates to approximately 42" and 30". I've built in both sizes. There are more 42" built than the smaller 30", though the smaller barges are easier to transport. I build all mine with lowering masts now, they go in the car easier.
Best of luck, ask as many questions as you like, I'm a barge nut, so am only too pleased to help someone new to barges.

Cheers, Nerys

Hi Marky,

That all sounds quite nasty, just keep well away from things like roses and other dangerous objects.
Yes, the command and control centre was finished last year and we had quite a few weekends away in it, including the Blackpool show and Warwick. We are using it sparingly at the moment, the price of fuel isn't helping.
My health is none too good, the spirit is willing etc. I'm still on dyalisis three times a week and this often leaves me in a state where I feel too ill to do anything. Walking is very difficult, a few paces using a walker and that's it. Also, I find it difficult to raise the energy to do anything constructive. I have four boats needing attention or finishing and I'm struggling to do anything about them.
Hope you continue to improve, at least we are both still here.

Cheers, Nerys

Hello Marky,

Nice to see you around again, how on earth did you come to have a fight with a rose bush, always thought gardening was dangerous.

All the best, Nerys

A very strong contender I would have thought, Colin. Well done for thinking of ship's wheels.

Nerys

I have never seen brass thole pins, only ever wood. I have no idea what the brass things are, but would have thought that if they were intended as thole pins, the bit that would go into the gunwhale would not give sufficient support for the pressure of an oar being pulled against the upper part and would jump out. Could they be a form of belaying pin? if indeed they are a nautical item. Wooden thole pins go through the gunwhale and there is usually as much thole pin below the gunwhale as there is above. I remember some barge's boats using thole pins. I found on the few occasions I have used thole pins that it felt completely different from using rowlocks.

Nerys

Lovely detailed model, for a first boat model, that's pretty good work . Very high standard.

Cheers, Nerys

This boat started life as a part built kit I bought from one of our members who was going abroad to live. I think she turned out quite well and I have been pleased with her performance. Gave her an outing today on a very wet (from the sky) lake.

Nerys

Alice and I enjoyed our visit to the Abergavenny Steam show on Friday , enhanced of course by our visit to your stall. Lovely display of boats and pleased to hear that you had interest from the younger generation. I particularly liked your display of old pond yachts, wish I still had mine from pre WW2.

Cheers, Nerys

If you look on the events page, the Bryn Bach event is on the 11th June, sorry I should have put it on the forum post as well.

Nerys

Thank you everyone for your favourable comments and in particular, Colin, for sending me a PDF of the complete manual. I've never seen one so comprehensive.

Cheers, Nerys

Bryn Bach Park Radio Controlled Model Club are holding an Open Day/ Exhibition for model boats and radio controlled vehicles at their lakeside site, opposite side to the cafe, in Bryn Bach Park. Open from 2pm. For full details, contact Brian Stewart on 07756401967

Alice put on her amateur radio hat last Sunday and we visited a boot fair run by an amateur radio club. I expected to see nothing but radio and electrical equipment, but to my surprise Alice found this yacht in all her glory. I felt the price being asked was realistic in view of the obvious age, so after a little haggle, bought her. She is a NorthWind 36 600. So, if anyone can tell me anything about her, I would be most grateful. She will need some restoration a new receiver and no doubt some other bits, but I think will make a worthy addition to my fleet when finished.

Cheers, Nerys

This is my Sea Commander which I built a few years ago. Brought her out a few days ago for a new prop and for Alice to re-battery and here she is on the lake earlier today.

Nerys

Lovely looking model. I particularly like the canoe stern, not often we see that in a model.

Nerys

Very pleased to see you back again Marky. Hope you are back in good health, ready to keep giving us the benefit of your knowledge to this forum.

Very best wishes,
Nerys

Nice shape hull, what sort of working boat is she derived from?

Nerys

Thank you Doug for your remarks. One source I looked at said the Jervis Bay was owned by P & O, and the yellow funnel pointed to that as well, but the name should have told me that she was one of the 'Bay' ships built for the Australians.

Yes, I was going on eight at the time of the engagement, but I surprise myself sometimes when I find I have recall of many WW2 actions.

Cheers, Nerys

There is no real evidence that the Beaverford actually engaged the Admiral Scheer. There was a report that she did so for about three hours, but there was no evidence of this and reports from the Admiral Scheer, found after the war, say that she scattered with the rest of the convoy and was subsequently caught and attacked. She was badly damaged, but a part cargo of timber kept her afloat until a torpedo from the Admiral Scheer, detonated ammunition cargo in a forward hold. The engagement was watched by another ship, the Fresno City, who herself was later sunk by the Scheer, however as far as I know, there were no other ships in the convoy sunk by the Scheer.

Nerys

That's a lovely model of a historic ship. The name Jervis Bay immediately makes me remember the armed merchant cruiser HMS Jervis Bay. The P &O liner was requisitioned by the Admiralty in 1939 and fitted with seven ancient six inch guns. In November 1940 she was escorting a convoy of 38 ships, when she sighted the German Pocket Battleship Admiral Scheer. She turned to engage the the enemy, allowing her convoy to scatter and escape, but was overcome and sunk. Her Captain, Captain Fagen, was posthumously awarded the Victoria Cross. I am old enough to remember this news being broadcast.

Nerys

Hope to be able to come. Could you please post a reminder nearer the date.

Cheers, Nerys

Jennovids

Missed you at Bryn Bach park this morning. Have sent you a PM.

Nerys

Have you thought of using 'peel off' letters from a craft shop, or on ebay Available in various sizes and styles, they have several alphabets to the sheet, (how many depends on size) and cost around £2 a sheet. I have used them successfully for a number of years but I advise varnishing over them once in place.

Nerys