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    pmdevlin
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    Member No.#89
    RegisteredπŸ“…26th Apr 2008
    Last OnlineπŸ“…19th Mar 2019
    CityπŸ“Wirral
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    Members Harbour
    (Fire Boat) Aerokits Fireboat crashtender 46"
    twin 800kv motors, propshop props, 22.5mph, 4 x 7.4v lipos painstaking rebuild, see the full build in the blog section (ESC: turnigy 60a) (9/10)
    (Working Vessel) The Orca
    the boat has working cabin and nav lights, a smoke unit, a bespoke sound unit which incorporates original sound clips from the movie, operated from the transmitter, which has onboard stereo speakers, and an amplifier! Panit colours are realistic, the codes were provided by Universal pictures! Figures were painstakingly recreated by remodelling star wars figures! (ESC: Electronise) (8/10)
    (Pleasure Craft) Veron Huntsman 28
    24.5mph is the max speed recorded using eagle tree data logging, great fun, but short run times. I have a number of gear ratios that I can use, depending on the size of lake, do I need acceleration, or max speed for bigger lake. its a Veron Huntsman 28, weighs 6kgs with batteries, heavily modified, next year will get a twin brushless conversion, as this is a very inefficient set up (Motor: Scorpion 890KV) (ESC: Castle creations 120Amp) (10/10)
    (Fire Boat) Fire Boat
    Gearbox on 2:1 ratio is also used, for now its just direct drive. Very efficient, however the boat rolls far too much, over time the spray raisdlhave been rubbed down, they need renewing to Improve stability, straight line speed is very good!. Boat was originally mad3e by my Uncle in the early 1960's (Motor: Turnigy T600 880KV) (ESC: Turnigy 60amp) (8/10)
    Recent Posts
    πŸ“ Exciters/transducers
    6 months ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    More dense really. The epo foam used on the ready to fly rc planes is ideal. I used Depron on the fire boat it’s the stuff used to insulate flooring. it was ok but a bit brittle.

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    πŸ“ Exciters/transducers
    6 months ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Im not on here that much, so a little late picking this up. Are you talking about TT25 transducers like the ones Mrrcsound sell/ I suppose they all work the same, I've used these a lot, in planes mostly, and experimented with boats, so can offer some hands on advice.
    Firstly, you don't cut any holes to let sound out, as this isn't how they work. its all about the vibrations. The centre ring is epoxied (that's the best way, they have to be permanent, but with some teasing they can be removed it required, rather than cyno) to the surface, which obviously needs to be flat. The thinner the material, the more sound, but its marginal, as the thinner you go, the less bass, or deeper tones. With planes, the best material by far is the epo foam, so when mounting into a ply or balsa plane they work best going to foam, then the ply, and the same will apply for a boat. 2-3mm is generally the optimum thickness. Remember, the area is going to vibrate, so use an area that can do this, the sides of a hull are ideal. The back of the transducers get hot, so don't cover the back, the heat has to dissipate and once secure, make sure the unit can move in and out, its easy to drip glue in the wrong place and the whole thing gets stuck, it wont vibrate now, so won't do the job.
    Also, its worth epoxying the transducer to 2mm foam, epo that the ready to fly planes works best, its close density, the stuff that packs white goods is poor as its a more open density and falls apart. Once you have this, you can move it around by just holding it against the hull to see where the best sound is.

    All this is relevant to the Mrrcsound transducers, I use a number of his sound units, so cant really comment on what you are using as I cant find that info on this thread (did a man read!)
    Here are a couple of my models to give you an ideaπŸ‘

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXFvrkDl7ow&t=207s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OITvPabFHY&t=165s

    so these are all Mrrcsound units, and both have two tt25 transducers either side ogf the hull and fuselage.

    With the Mrrcsound systems, you can use two tt25, if you want an additional two, then an aux amp is required
    hope that helps!
    Paul
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OITvPabFHY&t=165s
    πŸ”—
    Fireboat twin sound unit test
    ▢️

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    πŸ“ Spektrum, new, useless...
    8 months ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    very good points all, particularly Norman. Some artf models, foamies mainly, are far from that, I know, I've had some. So take for example a popular brand in small hobby shops, dynam. They make very good models, on a budget. They are ready to fly, once the receiver is in there. Β£120 ish gets a nice model, with something like a 5 foot span, so it can be big. Last one I had, after pre assembly checks, because I knew this would happen, motor firewall was loose, prop was on backwards, spar for wings needed attention as it didn't fit, some of the wires where labelled wrong, and the wheel retracts where both damaged by over tightening. I knew what to look for, but a novice Dad and Lad, buys a birthday present, assembles, goes to local footie field, and the inevitable happens.

    No range check, because they don't know about this
    no pre assembly checks
    no experience, or help (which is the benefit of a club)

    no insurance when the model crashes into the carpark and damages a car (ive seen this)

    Sorry, Ive taken this thread way off topic, so wont carry thsi on, apologies to the thread starter!

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    πŸ“ Spektrum, new, useless...
    8 months ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Five pounds will buy nothing now so it’s a bit silly comparing this. You could buy a bag of chips for 25p and a new bike for Β£25 but it all has no relevance. I’m sure you can get your own insurance but Β£3 a month is hardly expensive given the legal cover medical cover third party and public liability cover available. I never mentioned toy boats or yachts which are obviously slower. I don’t actually know any dedicated private model boat lakes where public have no access so there is always a risk. insurance is all about the risk. That’s what you cover. I bet pretty much the majority of model boaters have no insurance but that doesn’t mean it’s right. Planes are another matter and I believe anybody flying without insurance is reckless irrespective of how long he has been doing it. The risk is greater

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    πŸ“ Spektrum, new, useless...
    8 months ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    you don't have to join a club . BMFA (British model flying association) will take none club members, you join as a country member. You don't actually have to take the proficiency test, but most clubs insist on it. Not only does it demonstrate a basic understanding, and basic competency of flight, electric, ic, petrol or free flight, its also an understanding of caa rules and safety. There is also the LMA (Large model association) which also carries public liability insurance.

    Flying without insurance just isn't worth the risk, imagine, on a nice hillside, nobody around, up on a thermal, and the tx fails, the soarer comes down, (anywhere as there is now no control) and hits an animal, or worse, a walker, would the Β£34 for a full year public liability insurance still seem expensive when you are hauled in court facing prosecution and possible imprisonment? Same with an rc boat, particularly a fast one, receiver packs in, boat is out of control, and little jonny has his hands in the water as it hits the bank, still don't think insurance is worthwhile? I bet a lot of people insure their mobile phone for more than Β£34 a year, by the way, Im sure BMFA insurance also covers other rc disciplines πŸ‘

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    πŸ“ Spektrum, new, useless...
    9 months ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    IFound out today via bmfa that horizon hobbies who looked after spectrum warranties and repairs are back in uk with darbrorc who are just outside stoke on Trent. Maybe they can get the tx tested and fixed?
    Several years ago I had a couple of frysky tx and they needed to be set up on a pc don’t know if this is still the case?

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    πŸ“ Spektrum, new, useless...
    9 months ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    post up a pic of the orange rx, lets see what version it is. EG, I have a DX8i which will work with both dsm2 and dsmx, I bought it for this very reason, so I can use both.

    You keep saying that the tx needs to be found to be faulty or not, but as Doug says, if you don't have it in the correct format to match the receiver, its never going to work. Spektrum are reliable, so I doubt the tx is faulty


    BInd plug in receiver
    power source to receiver, orange light flashes quick (make sure its 6v, if you are using less it might not work, so think about this, I use a 4 aa pack to test things like this, last night doing exactly the same could not get a bind, the 4 aa's had dropped to 5.5v, change the batts, 6v all worked)
    hold tile trainer switch, turn on tx at same time
    keep hold of switch, wait a minute or so, light on rx goes steady.

    TX neds to match the rx, dsm2 or dsmx

    sorry if I'm repealing things, failing hat go to local rc boat, or plane club, and ask someone to second face what you are doing

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    πŸ“ 1960,s huntsman
    11 months ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Stuart, how long is the boat please?

    Paul

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    πŸ’¬ Roof Skins
    11 months ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    for some reason I cant see the pics I posted! so cant say where they came from, can you post them up?

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    πŸ’¬ Roof Skins
    12 months ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    sorry to hijack your blog!

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    πŸ’¬ Roof Skins
    12 months ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    do it!!
    I regretted it the minute I had finished my 4 footer. So this is a 3 foot boat, glass hull (cant remember where it came from) the rest is scratch. Superstructure plastic, with ply formers etc, virtually all fittings hand made from brass. Davit worked, windows opened (inc rear ones) and so on. Sadly he passed away prior to paint, so I finished it, and returned to his wife in a glass box.

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    πŸ’¬ Roof Skins
    12 months ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    nice job, I just cant work with wood, it hates me😁 so used plasticard, here is the hinged front windows on my pals 3 foot boat. I planned to do this, but the refurb was taking so long I decided to accelerate and get it finished, meaning I didn't do the opening windows. it will be a nice unique and accurate touch if you fancy doing it!

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    πŸ’¬ Cabin Windows
    1 year ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Bit of trivia! Maybe something you want to consider the outermost front windows actually open by hinging at the top something I have only seen modelled once before. I decided against this on my boat due to Possible water leaks

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    πŸ“ 2018 Boat Race
    1 year ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Maybe a reply to the format might help
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    πŸ’¬ Cabin roof mechanism
    1 year ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    great job so far! really well done, I had a similar thought regarding cabin detail, and the somewhat difficult access, and then, how can it be seen after all that hard work?
    My 3 foot aerokits boat has a removeable roof, it just drops on top, and is held in position by one m3 bolt ina central position under the hatch, its a "loose" interference fit. One convern following this, is water entry, it does splash up.
    With my 4 foot boat, I decided against a removable roof, as I knew this boat will work hard, and my clumsly hands might be prone to knocking things off, so I opened up the rear wall of the wheelhouse to gain access, with a removable panel which encompasses the rear sliding windows. I gave the cabin some dash detail, and always promised to return to the floor, and drivers seat etc, but never have.
    I like it when we see builders individual takes on things, whilst the boats are essentially all the same, it makes them individual, and we all put our own stamp on things. Your engineering skilss are magnificent!πŸ‘

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    πŸ“ Torrevieja boat show
    1 year ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    I was there last week, our old neighbors where Spanish and introduced us to the town (much bigger now) approx 10 years agao, so whilst in Alicante for a week we used the bus to go there for a day out.

    We passed a lot of very nice looking lakes on route, with the road being in the middle of water eithrr side, they looked man made, great fo flying watwer planes! what are they for?

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    πŸ“ 2018 Boat Race
    1 year ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    what a great idea! wish it wasn't so far, so anyone can turn up with an rc boat, but its a race, like a drag race? what's the format, I know its informal, but I'm wondering how it works, just draw lots to race, could be elec against ic, scale against, well anything! sounds like a load of funπŸ‘ I'm interested....πŸ˜‰

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    πŸ’¬ Pt boat
    1 year ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    its a"pibber" this is the boat martin sheen used in the film "apocalypse now", first job for me would be get that cardboard flag off and find a silk one that will move in the wind!

    good fun looking boat though, and the jet drives mean iy could operate in shallow waterπŸ‘

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    πŸ“ Too Powerful Brushless ?
    1 year ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    I think you might need pointing in a direction, so I had a quick look on Hobbyking, and this motor is the sort of thing you can use, although this particular one would need you to swop the shaft around, this is just a guide, other s will no doubt add comment, its the right size, 5mm shaft, right kv and watts.

    https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-g15-brushless-outrunner-810kv.html

    brushless esc

    https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbyking-90a-boat-esc-4a-sbec.html

    you don't need the high amp capability, but its reversing, programmable, water cooled, and has an sbec, so the main battery power this

    5 mm shaft, move your motor to the centre section meaning weight distribution is more central, and you can now use a shorter shaft, and get a couple off plastic "x" props, I would say 40 to 45mm will be the one. This will give a good speed, and you can power on 3 cells or 4 cells lipo, get higher c rating (40c or more) and higher mah so you have fuel in the tank available

    https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-battery-3000mah-4s-40c-lipo-pack-xt-60.html

    This is just a guide, a starting point, as I feel you are unsure where to start, others with more knowledge will come in regarding this, having experience with lipo, brushless, 3 foot ply boats, and esc's, depending on budget, this would be the sort of thing I would be getting.
    https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-g15-brushless-outrunner-810kv.html
    πŸ”—
    https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbyking-90a-boat-esc-4a-sbec.html
    πŸ”—
    https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-battery-3000mah-4s-40c-lipo-pack-xt-60.html
    πŸ”—

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    πŸ“ Prop shaft
    1 year ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    aceteal (probably spelt wrong!) a type of plastic, water lubricated, and tap in to the shaft ends. Easy to fit, easy to change, and very very cheap. I get mine from shg marine, come in various sizesπŸ‘

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    πŸ“ Too Powerful Brushless ?
    1 year ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    the "roundy" bits are just for decoration by the way! and they are brass, just painted to look like metal

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    πŸ“ Too Powerful Brushless ?
    1 year ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    big pair of molegrips on it, and twist😁

    regarding the rudder, I use standard profile rudders, and cut them this way. The rudders are like brakes, and I was having issues on fast gradual turns the bow was coming down, almost digging in. Thinking it was weight displacement I spent ages messing around, until a friend suggested cutting down the front edge, gradually, and seeing how it went, this cured the problem, turns are nice and flat

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    πŸ“ Too Powerful Brushless ?
    1 year ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    sorry to bore everyone with repeated info, as a similar question was posed recently. I agree with the fact that shaft is too thin, it very much looks llike a fibreglass very light racing boat set up, now this doesnt mean you cant go fast with your boat, but you need components that are up to lugging a big heavy lump of wood around the pond, not a lightweight feather😊

    I have 5mm shafts, less whipping. and I have oilers so they are lubricated with oil rather than grease, just my preference. You can get these shafts from shg marine, they will supply with push in aceteal (probably spelt wrong!) water lubricated bearings, real cheap, so you can change then every season if you want. The shaft has to be supported, where it exits the hull, just put it through another piece of ply, and fill the void with epoxy, and double up the former thingy it goes through in the same way. (pic)
    The prop you used is the wrong blade type, thats probaly why it fell apart, plus the soldered on blades are a weak design for higher speed, simon higging is one piece, but at this stage, still testing, you can get plastic "x" blade ("s" blade are less speed)_ props again from shg marine for a few quid each, then you can test a few different sizes. if you jump in for an expensive brass one, and its wrong, its wasted money.
    As a starting point, 35mm, 40mm and 45mm, if you dont have any way of testing with data logging etc, you are doing short runs, with the smallest first, and seeing if the motor gets hot etc, and what sort of speed you are doing.
    My brushless motors are generally 800 to 900kv, and achieve 25mph in four foot heavy hulls, you want lower kv for torque, not high kv high rev motors. I got into thsi 10 years ago, thwere was NO advice around then as it was new tech in boats so I learnt the hard way😭
    When (if) you go to a brass prop, the "cleaver" blade design (pic) works well, I did extensive testing with my Huntsman and fireboat and was lucky enough to have Simon Higgins testing props with me on my boats, again because what I was doing, large scale boats, but going very fast, was unique, and the cleaver design was the best at the time.
    Forget the fear of lipo, and brushless, they go as slow as your throttle stick is pushed, πŸ‘

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    πŸ“ Richards 48" Swordsman
    1 year ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Its pretty much impossible to say with pictures, but some video would tell the story as to is the plane due to speed, or imbalance, at the end of the day its your model so if you are happy that is enough!πŸ‘

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    πŸ“ Β£4" RAF Crash Tender Window Frames
    1 year ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    I was lucky with my 4 foot boat, I had a milling machine, but with thew 3 footer, I used plasticard and cut out by hand with a sharp knife.
    The problem with the earlier aerokits boats, the windows are never quite the same boat to boat, so you end up with a thick profile frame to cover over any discrepancies, if you know what I mean. The fitting set at slec looks a bit expensive at Β£35....πŸ€”

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    πŸ“ Β£4" RAF Crash Tender Window Frames
    1 year ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Hi Peter, its only the wheelhouse that has frames, sides, screen, and the two rear windows. The cabins didnt have any, other than brows over the top of the front two, the style differs depending on it being 93 or 94.

    I made my own from plasticard, very fiddly but worth it

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    πŸ“ Fairey Huntsman & Swordsman
    1 year ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    I dont uses mixes, but do use exponential and rates (spektrum dx6i) with my twin screw brushless 4 foot fireboat. When at speed rates on, then it turns nicer, no roll, when going slow rates off so turns are sharper, if that makes sense.

    Mixing the throttles.. interesting not thought of that, but it will lose power/speed. We use mixing on planes for taxiing, particularly on water, but once airborne its off. My avatar has this as the cheapo motors just wont balance so it compensates for this on the water. With the boat its easier to control with rudder input. I like the thinking though!😁

    swordsman
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    πŸ“ 46" Firefloat What Motor/Battery
    1 year ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Hi John,

    you might now be scratching your head, and wishing you have not asked the original question! This seems to be a common issue, as the boating community is light years behind the other disciplines, rc cars, planes helis and so on, its probably due to the facts general boating doesnt really need the later generation technology, the average boater age is probably higher than the other disciplines so budgeting might be an issue, and there is less younger blood in the clubs to explain the lipo/brushless etc.

    We see posts with a load of numbers, specs, warnings etc, its enough to put people off.

    Im a big fan of brushless/lipo/ 2.4 etc, been doing it for years, its cheaper and more efficient (once you have the basics) but for the average guy, who just wants to spend an easy afternoon at the local lake gently cruising around, brushed motors, nimhs batteries, even lead acid, will do the jobπŸ‘

    Your 4 foot ply boat, once painted, with fittings, will be heavy, I know, I own one. Those 600 motors are not big enough, they are better suited to the smaller 3 foot boat, then, pushing them with a 6v lead acid, just cant do it. The battery will be screaming HELP!! I started 15 years back exactly the same, 600 motor, 6v battery, massive 50mm prop, I knew no better and took advise from people who didnt know what they were talking about😑, remember those gold hi tech speed controllers!! I had one, it melted, literally melted on the first use😭

    Get 700 size motors, they will need to be water cooled, as mentioned by jarvo, the nominal voltage or below isnt good enough, power them at the max voltage. Brushed means you can use one apropriate esc, look out for electronize (are they still in existance?) or mtroniks, preferably use nimhs batteries over lead acid with a high mah.

    If after all this you want to venture into lipos and brushless motors, go to a club, spot a boat that is similar in size to yours, if you like the performance talk to the owner and gain experience and knowledge that way, it will save money, lost time and a lot of disappointment, I have been there so feel your pain.

    I say I would never go back to brushed motors and none lipo batteries, but I always want silly speed, not runtime, after 15 minutes Ive had enough and am bored. Rambling over!

    My 4 foot boat is twin brushless and uses 4 lipo 5000mah cells per motor, it will do 25mph for 15 mins, then I go home😁

    Message is, you can get a "reasonable" performance from brushed motors, with the correct batteries, right props, but weight is the enemy. Looks lie you are at Biddulph, get onto Dave M a moderator on here, and arrange to go over to see the crewe and district boys on one of their sailing days, take your boat with you, they will helpπŸ‘

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    πŸ“ 34" Crash Tender - prop / rudder type
    1 year ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    Hi peter, do you want a brass 3 blade prop for cosmetic reasons, if so they do look nice.
    I did extensive testing with my 3 foot fireboat using brushed, then brushless motors, and then prop testing. I was using eagle tree data logging for watts, amps, gps speed etc.
    The plastic two blade cheap as chips props actually produce similar readings to the more expensive brass 3 blades. Personally, as you are at the "guess work" stage, just use the plastic two blade ones, but use "x" pitch, standard wont give you the speed. Get a few sizes, 30, 35 40 mm and test. When you have the optimum set up you can then go to the expense of the brass prop. I sent Simon Higgins (ex prop shop) my readings and he made a specific prop for my boat, its a 35mm cleaver 3 blade. He has his own company now but I've forgotten what it is! He was at Blackpool last year so someone might have the list of traders. His props are balanced and one piece, very nice.
    I also experimented with a belt driven gearbox. The set up I have at the minute is this motor

    https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-t600-brushless-outrunner-for-600-heli-880kv.html

    overkill really! but my 3 footer is an original very heavy aerokits boat.
    https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-t600-brushless-outrunner-for-600-heli-880kv.html
    πŸ”—

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    πŸ“ what shall we make with this!
    1 year ago by pmdevlin ( Sub-Lieutenant)
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    so following a plea for a cast off boat for a friend, Dave generously donated this hull, its very nice. We discussed a gun boat, in a stand off sort of scale, as he likes military, with perhaps a superstructure that can be removed, and a different one made to fit, so two boats In one. But the more I look at it, the more I think it would make a minesweeper etc sort of thing. I'm not that well up with this sort of craft, its 43 inches long, so quite narrow, It has to be pretty much "none fussy" as the owner and builder is relatively new to this, Ill help, but its his boat, and he has clumsy hands, 😊 so it wont be super detailed. Easy to use, so single screw, more than likely brushed motor running nimhs or even lead acid (ouchπŸ€“ that goes against everything I do!)_

    Ideas please!

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