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I do not use YouTube, I am getting too old for all this tech stuff, so I will not bother to put the video's on, its not important, I think I have it sorted, may reduce the size of the prop, as when I turn port or starboard the extra drag really slows the boat down, so even though I have a large motor I think the 58 mm 3 blade is making the motor work too hard as it does get warm after 5 minutes running, so maybe with a smaller prop the motor may run faster as well, I suppose it will be like changing down on a hill the revs go up the engine has an easier time.
Well today was the first chance I had to take the boat to Coate Water in Swindon to use their small boating area, which is weed free and only about 3ft deep, Video 1 shows the boat with two 7.2 volt batteries at the rear of the boat, video 2 shows the boat with the two 7.2volt batteries mid section just behind the motor, video 3 shows the baot with the 12volt L/Acid battery with the two 7.2 volt batteries in the section in front of the motor as ballast, vidio 4 shows the bat with one 7.2 volt battery mid section with one 7.2 volt battery front section as ballast. Sorry about the quality of the video's but I was on my own so had my phone on a small tripod. The motor got quite hot, so maybe the 56 mm three bladed prop is too much still and I suspect the angle of the prop maybe too great, although with the present prop I would not be able to move it much as there is only about 5 mm between it and the hull. I seem to have trouble with downloading the video's it keeps coming up with a message saying download failed, I have tried downloading just one, that fails as well, any idea's?
Thanks chaps at a rough estimate and using the keel as the straight edge it is about correct for the electric motor. new cables and connectors along with a couple of mini servo's, arriving tomorrow, which I intend to rig up to operate some micro switches for lights and the like, cheaper than pukka switches. Jarvo and pmdevlin, when I can get the boat to water I will take some photo's and maybe a video with the battery's in the rudder compartment and also in the compartment just rear of the motor to see what you both think.
Sorry to keep asking questions but although I finished this in 2015 it is my first rc boat, in fact my first any boat, the first time I went to water so to speak, was three weeks ago, I am learning new things by reading the posts on this forum I have just read the post by RMWall107 about his boat and someone mentioned the angle of the prop-shaft with regards to an ic and electric motor angle, as my father who started the build in the 60's and was into his r/c aircraft I suspect he was going to fit an ic motor and fitted the prop accordingly. Can someone tell me the correct angle for an electric motor with any tolerances and also what the problems will be if the angle is too far out. Thanks
further to my previous post, I have now fitted the two NiMH Batteries (not nicad as I kept saying)in the rear compartment, held in with Velcro, and tidied the wires up and fitted an inline fuse, yet to be wired, the boat is much lighter, however all the other Velcro is still in place so I can move them forward if needed and fit the lead or Lead acid battery, so one visit to a pond and hopefully I can get it sailing correctly, my problem is I would not know what is correct and what is not, at least I have Pauls video as a reference.
very interesting Paul, I watched the video, I have weighed the boat as best I can, using the kitchen scales, the boat without any batteries or lead is 6Ib 3 oz (2815 gms)the lead ballast is 2 Lb (915 gms)the lead acid battery is 5Ib 9oz (grams) and the two NiMH batteries are 1Ib 10oz (747 gms) the boat now has an 850 motor with a 55mm 3 bladed prop, I do not have the experience to know whether the boat is sitting correctly without the ballast but do know that if I have the lead acid 12volt battery fitted in the only place it will fit then I need the ballast in the forward compartment making the boat weigh 13 Ib (6252 gms). if you are saying that I should keep it light then I could move theNiMH batteries to the compartment rear of the motor thus moving the weight towards the back and ditch the LA battery and lead ballast, I have no idea which part of the country you reside in, is it too far for me to drive to? as your sailing pond looks a lot better than the postage stamp we have to use in Swindon.
the first time I sailed the boat with the old motor she was fast and literally stood up in the water on half throttle with just the lead acid battery and no ballast, it was sitting with the back end about half an inch above the underside skins and the bow was well out of the water, I was advised by one of the club members that I needed to trim the boat so it was down at the front but keeping the stern approximately where it was, therfore the lead in the compartment forward of the motor and the battery in the compartment behind. However the 5000mAh and the 3300mAh batteries are not connect and are only held in place with a bit of velcro, also the lead in the front is just shaped to the hull and cannot move, but I can lift it out, so I will see how it runs next week
Motor fitted to platform and luckily there was enough depth to screw the motor platform to the stringers, I have moved the reciever forward to where it was and resecured the powerbox in a better position, just the leads with the bullet connectors from the motor to fit, although I have fitted the sealed lead acid 12 volt battery instead of the lead ballast (same weight) I have left the7.2v in situ as I trimmed the boat with them in and will see how it goes, it may have too much power on 12 volt and at least if my finger on the stick lacks control on the speed, I can slow things down by swapping over to the 7.2v batteries. If and when the sailing side is sorted, after seeing the pictures of members boats and ships, I think I will give it a good rub down and respray and smarten the inside up as well. Eventually I will get on with the Lloydsman
the motor has arrived today so into the workshop this afternoon, of course it is not going to be straightforward, the motor is much larger than the 540 size so the motor platform is too high. I fixed it down well, I did not want this to come loose, managed to cut it out with one of those vibrating cutter, just leaving the glued pieces to remove , not too difficult with a small wood chisel. So in the process of making a motor platform with new stringers so the platform is lower in the hull, break for tea, now going in to workshop to fix down the stringers to the hull and bulkheads with 2 part epoxy, The motor mount has been fixed to the platform with small nuts and bolts with a locking washer, I am going to epoxy the heads to the underside of the platform, so I can undo the nuts without the bolt spinning, not sure how I will fix the platform in as there is not much depth on the stringers to use screws, so I guess two part epoxy again. Should I start a blog as I think this may be an ongoing tale of woe😊
Thanks for the offer Paul, however I have a large amount of tools and equipment having been a service engineer, also into British motorcycles and old cars previously and had a magpie attitude to all things tools including taps and dies,helicoils and the like, I also have a boxford lathe so am capable of making the odd items when needed. Another thing I have learnt, 3mm props are available, and yes if needed I can drill and tap it to 4 BA (I have most of the BA taps and some dies) that will also save having to rip the boat apart. Yes Haverlock trying it in the bath would be a good idea, however I have a friends pond just down the road and think it may be a bit prudent to use that.😆
Fair enough pmdevlin I accept what you are saying, however it started as a motor not being big enough for the size of the propeller and then went on further as the shaft was 4BA not 4mm and I could not locate a smaller prop, a plain brass tube and stainless shaft has been fitted,way back in the 60's when it was first started and as I knew nothing about boats in 2015 when I finished the basic structure, I did not know that it would have been the smart thing to fit a shaft with bearings. So this is the way I am going to go, I have ordered the 850 brush motor and the adapter to fit the motor shaft to my red coupling,this I have been assured will be more than big enough to drive the prop without getting hot or needing a water jacket, if this is the case when I fit it and sail it, then result, if not I will then have to go down the path that you suggest, I have nothing to lose trying the larger motor and everything to gain if it works. By the way the batteries are all new
I have a brass tube and stainless shaft with no bearings fitted at the moment. I thought the advice was to fit a bigger motor and smaller prop, to keep the motor from running hot and to hopefully save the battery, you say an equivalent three blade prop, that is what is fitted (55mm 3 blade) so where does that come on the chart? as if it is still too big then I am no further forward
I like Blunt, the guy a Howes model shop, who was into boats himself retired and only worked there a couple of mornings a week, also said to remove the complete shaft and replace it with a metric one much the same as yourself, it is just the thought of what damage I may do to the boat as I know I fixed it in really well, he also said to get a 4mm prop-shaft and to see if the shaft would fit into the existing tube, so I am going to take both your advice and at this time go for a 4mm but try the shaft first, however I do not think pulling it out with mole grips will work on this occasion. Watch this space😡 Thanks
Hi all I have located an 850 motor and mount at Howes Models in Kiddlington not too far from where I live in Malmesbury, for £22.50 however the prop shaft is 4BA, the coupling is not a problem as I can get the insert for the larger motor to fit the existing red coupling, but I can only seem to find 4mm 40 or 45mm propellers which are a fraction bigger than the 4BA which I know will screw on but they would have a bit of a wobble on the threads and could give me an out of balance vibration, apart from drilling out the old propshaft assy and fitting a new 4mm one what else can I do? or does anyone have a old 4BA prop they can let me have?
I looked at the Cornwall model site and saw that, what i have decided to do is to leave the two Ni cad batteries in situ and I have weighed the rear/mid section lead weight and it is just 56 grams heavier than the 12 volt 7 amp/h lead acid alarm battery so I will use the 12 volt battery and ditch the lead, the weight of the boat will be the same, I also trimmed the lead at the front end so the bow will come up a fraction more. I have taken the prop of and measured it to be a 55mm, so I am going to fit the water intake, hopefully with some advice from the forum "techys"as to the position, in the photos this is where I can fit it so it is out of the way of the rudder and prop.what do you reckon, I can then get a suitable motor with a water jacket which will be happy to run on 12 volt with enough power not to get hot turning a 45 to 50 mm two blade "x" prop, as suggested by pmdevlin, I may get the Lloydsman up and running as all that needs is dusting of and batteries charging up, (two 12 volt 7amp/h in parallel) and the receiver from the commander fitted although I have not floated it I bought it as a complete working model in 2015, so it is about time it came out of dry dock, also I can look to repairing the rigging and finishing the Odessy Yacht I bought at the same time as the Llyodsman also in dry dock.
Thank you gents, I will get a bigger motor and reduce the prop size as I do not want it any faster than it is, also a smaller prop as everyone has said will reduce the power drained from the battery, I have a water scoop and tubing so will be fitting that today and will fit a water jacket around the motor, also I am thinking weighing the lead weight fitted in the compartment behind the motor and replace some or all of it and fit a 12 volt 7 amph sealed lead acid battery, presumably this will last longer than the present batteries fitted, or will it?
Reilly, I stand corrected I see what you are saying, the speed of the boat is just about right, if I fit a smaller prop then I will need a much faster motor to keep it at that speed then I presume the battery will not last as long, in fact that is something I would like to work out, although I am ok with wiring and working out loads at mains voltage etc. my ohms law is useless with DC voltage and mAh Haverlock I had a look at that motor but I see the recommended motor mount would block of the front air holes again (same mout as I have) Canabus thanks for that sounds expensive besides which I have spent out nearly, my pension does not really extend to this hobby, but enjoyment is important. I wonder if the last three words of the previous paragraph is a quote from some famous person I could add to the bottom of my posts😁
Hi reilly4 I do not think it is as large as 60mm as it is a three bladed prop, if it was a two bladed one I would agree with you as the blades would be directly opposite each other hence 60mm, but being 3 bladed they are not 90 degrees to the centre point, without taking it off and drawing a circle around it to measure I would hazard a guess it is a 30mm prop. If memory serves me correctly the late Swindon Model Shop which was run by Yan who knew his stuff recommended the 540 motor along with the prop for the size of the boat. I will check the Sea Commander plans as I think it has the size of the required prop listed. Haverlock the motor is rated 4.5 to 15 volts and the battery is 7.2 volt, I would have to run the boat in water to see what the motor is drawing under load, I may get a tad wet trying to keep up with it to read an amp meter, or sink the boat by sitting on it😉 I think the overheat problem was to do with the motor mounting braket covering the front air slots on the motor. However I have a water scoop which I did not fit at the time of building so may retro fit and buy a new motor set up for water cooling, the next question would be where abouts do I fit it?
reading my previous post I got it wrong the heavier weight is noe in the compartment behind the motor with the lighter one forward of the motor compartment, The prop is a three bladed brass one so difficult to measure the diameter when on the boat, but each blade from the center is just 30mm, the power box is an Aquapower digital speed controller model AQP128. The prop shaft spins freely Will be retiring to bed now so will check any replies tomorrow, thank you all for the help and advice
After reading your post Jarvo I went out to the workshop to check if the motor would run, it had got so hot it had melted the solder on the live feed connection so in a way saving it from going right up in smoke, an inline fuse may be a thing in the future, the motor is completely burnt out however the power box is OK. Thank you for the information about the larger motor, I am not sure which is the larger out of the two, I have posted some photos of them both as I am not up to speed with the rating numbers of the motors,maybe you could answer that question. However following up from Scout13 reply, although the cover over the prop shaft connection was in no way restricting air flow, ( I will drill some air flow holes in the cover to be 100% positive on that statement. The motor fixing bracket and the RE540/1 motor recommended for the Sea Commander and sold to me by the model shop, (I was given the other motor by a club member as I was informed it was the better out of the two) looks like the problem, if you look at the photo's you can see that the air flow holes are completely blanked out by the bracket, something I missed when fitting it.
Scout13 I only have one battery connected at a time, with two batteries in situ I can use the other one when the first one is flagging,to give a longer running time, I could put them in Parallel but prefer to know I have a charged battery to use with an approx running time before it fails altogether. I have made a cover over the shaft coupling to prevent any cables coming into contact with it should they move, there is plenty of air space around this cover as well but the photo does not show it.Dave M the pond is weed free and the prop is the recommended one in the plans for the boat, as far as I am aware it is no larger dia. than the motor, but I will check that.As far as the weights I had to put lead in the front and mid section to get the boat down into the water as it was sitting on the hull and was not stable, I had some lead in the back as well as I used a spirit level when I was sorting it out in the bath, however when I first tried it in the pond the back end was too low in the water when it was going, so I took the heavier weight from the section just rear of the motor compartment and swapped it for the lighter weight just forward of the motor compartment, although this was better when tried again the stern was too low when it was moving so I removed the weights from the stern and as far as I could see it was just right, stationary the boat looked levelish but when moving on full throttle, the bow came up and had a nice bow wave with the stern down below the water level but with a (for want of the technical term) a hollow wave, when on a slower throttle it was fine and sailed nicely at all speed levels. What worries me is that the motor shown fitted in the boat was supposed to be the better motor than the photo of the one outside of the boat, would this benefit from a water cooled motor as to be honest I would not want to alter the top speed of the boat as it is just about right . just to let you all know I have a background knowledge of electrics so do know the difference between parallel and series voltages😊
[Score: 5/10] 48" Lloydsman Single Propellor Direct Drive Powered by Lead Acid (12v) Batteries - Comments: I bought this along with another in 2015 and so far have not run it so can not give much information on it, this is still in dry dock
[Score: 8/10] 34" Sea Commander Direct Drive Powered by NiCad (7.2v) Batteries - Comments: 1960's build finished in 2015 first floated 29/10/2017 first motor run outing 5?11/2017 motor burnt out problem solving pending so now in dry dock
Hi All looking for some advice, A bit of background first, in the early sixties my late father and myself started to build a Sea Commander, when Mother and father separated, he took the model with him, it ended up in the loft of his new residence and stayed there untouched until he asked me to take it just before he passed away in 2000, it then sat in my workshop until I decided to finish it in 2015 after a hip operation, the first time I floated it was last weekend at Coate water in Swindon, I then spent a few hours in the bathroom when the wife was out to get it sorted with lead weights and a smaller battery than the big 12 volt alarm battery I had fitted, so with the 7.2 volt battery fitted I went back to Coate water and tried it out, I removed the weight from the stern and swapped the mid and Bow weights around and it sat just right and motored lovely with a nice Bow wave and a hollow wave at the stern with good rudder response. However after about 10 minutes the motor stopped, I still had rudder control and as it happened the boat was aiming for the jetty so had no problem recovering the boat, the motor however was smoking hot and burnt out. what is the best type of motor to use on one of these boats, photos of the boat and motor fitted and a photo of a spare working motor, thanks in advance. Sorry for writing a book😊