The rudder pintle looks fantastic😀 Are you pleased with it?

The last time I was at Balsam Lake was about half a century ago😮

Hello Alessandro,

In my very long way I am asking how many oars does your boat have?

4 oars has 3 crew (2 rowers and helmsman)
2 oars has 1 crew, a rower

sorry for the confusion, but I do like a challenge!😁

Not exactly a regular rowboat, but 4 pairs of oars and a helmsman. If there is only 1 pair of oars is it easier to turn with just the oars? 2 to 4 pairs of oars takes co-ordination of the crew to turn without a rudder.

Then with 2 to 4 pairs of oars a rudder IS needed??

Alessandro

Silly question, how many pairs of oarlocks would this boat have?

Would a small enough boat with one pair of oarlocks be able to turn by oars? Would a boat with 2 pairs of oarlocks NEED a TILLERMAN?(HELMSMAN, A COXSWAIN)

Alessandro,
My instincts would say that the rudder would be stored with the boat and quickly mounted on the boat when needed. The rudder and tiller might be stored under a seat inside the boat while the boat is stored upside down on the vessel. I am assuming it would be a rudder & tiller, and not more complicated than that.

I was thinking about you when I saw the NWS STORM TRACK for MILTON. Let us know when you want to chat

Roy

I am inclined to think so . . .
but i've always been a little off centre. . .


PUT THE TOMATO DOWN. BACK AWAY SLOWLY, AND I WON'T GET HURT!!

CUTTING THROUGH LIMEWOOD

When I was cutting through 3mm pine stock, I found a box cutter had a better grip for control. I would score it 3 to 5 times cutting in about .75mm per stroke

the last with mathematics was a beginner calculus in 1974. They gave me a PASS if I promised not to come back.

Aren't these beautiful underwater lines? (WHAT?? it's just a bunch of numbers. Is he smoking that wacki tabaki again?)

The underwater coordinates in a 3D matrix. I now have to finish the formulas to make it work. I have an advantage of knowing how it SHOULD be. Each correction of a formula gets a little closer (as usual click the box in the corner and follow the prompts to open)

CE:LCP schooner is truthfully a range 7-12% (I am aiming for 7 and hoping for 12)

Thank you Roy for you further thoughts. Actually I enjoy the planning part, the solving of a puzzle, (check some of the discussions between Alessandro and me). As you suggest the goal is stand-off scale sailing. If you go back a few entries you see my transport vehicle, my wife's truck. (yea, it's in her name and she is its driver). The basement here is empty and it's display spot is already picked out. My fear is that I will put it in the water and it will simply turn upside down. (another member here did that with an old carved boat, he caught it before it went under.) You mention earlier that one of your CE:LCP is 4%. Mine is currently calculated at 14%. A full schooner is supposed to be 7% The mast steps haven't been set yet, so that is definitely being shifted. Yes, I can do the calculations, but I need the modellers, like you, to add their personal input. As a wise nanny once said, IN EVERY JOB THAT MUST BE DONE THERE IS AN ELEMENT OF FUN. YOU FIND THE FUN AND SNAP, THE JOB'S A GAME! The puzzle solving is my therapy😁

Roy

Please clarify, what do you mean by, EXTENDED KEEL. The keel here is shown darker than the rest of the drawing

I have been struggling with my method of volume calculation. Particularly, how to identify a certain cube in the whole collection of cubes and part cubes. I sat down quietly and thought about it, after looking at BLOCK COOEFFICIENTS, (thanks to Roy for pointing me in the right direction). The calculation for block coefficient, is based on a 3 dimensional cartesian coordinates. X axis is the LENGTH AT WATERLINE, Y axis is the KEEL TO WATERLINE, and Z axis is the WIDTH. If I use 3 coordinates, I can identify any cube.

So in my case:

0 to 28 are choices for X coordinate
0 to 4 are choices for Y coordinate &
0 to 4 are choices for Z coordinate

I will set the ORIGIN at the bottom of the keel, behind the rudder post, on centreline. From there I go up to the waterline, forward toward the bow, and out to port & starboard sides

If I want a particular cube I can identify it's position with 3 numbers

eg 23,3,2. that would give me the cube close to the bow, almost to the waterline, and halfway between the centreline and the gunwale

Roy,

It appears that this vessel will have a BLOCK COEFFICIENT of 0.6.

Yes, a block of wood would be 1.0 and a sharp bow and stern with a fin keel would be approaching zero, but what does 0.6 mean for a full keeled sailboat?

Thanks for any guidance

Ross

Roy,

Saw BLUE LEOPARD under sail video wow . . .

Roy

Your memory is still holding well👍!

SIMPSON'S MULTIPLIERS!!

I lean more to de Cervantes than to Shakespeare

Alessandro

are you addressing Ross Roy

or Rolls Royce?

"2 stations" in this whole discussion, 'stations' refers only to underwater profiles of a station

Alessandro is correct that there is a reference to calculus, but only a reference, (almost failed it in first year). That is the reason I moved from 10 stations to 28

What Alessandro describes in his second link is the same as my '5
STEP METHOD', the arithmetic is just laid out differently

'the mere fact of trying is a merit, in my point of view'

like this guy? (my brother did it in about 1964, it now hangs in my front hallway)

😁

Roy,

The lines on your photos are lovely

The balance between CG & CB are my mortal fear. Along with that are the Centre of Effort & the Lateral Centre of Pressure.

I do have a distinct advantage of having statistics from the original vessel

Scale volume displacement is 18.6 litres or 1200 cubic inches
Scale weight is 18.7 kilos or 41 pounds
If keel ballast is 35-40% of displacement, the hull before ballast is 26 pounds. The current weigh-in for the boat is 24 pounds of parts and upcoming supplies, the finish, not yet calculated. Randomly, I am close. With the sail area decreasing by the square root and displacement decreasing by the cube root, yes, this will make a sail heavy boat. Eyeball estimate leaves a fin keel & bulb extension of about 8 inches for stability. If things are still a little crazy, i will be able to drop sail. Staysail, topsails, jib topsail. First tests will be with 4 sails up. I have seen BLUENOSE videos, with only 4 of her 8 up. It appears to be not uncommon. This is the reason for the long calculation for CENTRE OF BUOYANCY to calculate the CENTRE OF GRAVITY and the META-CENTRE.

I do race the little 65cm sailboats. The physical CENTRE OF GRAVITY of those is 9 cm's below the hull.

Thank you Roy for your input

Yes, this is the basic technique I used 53 years ago, following instructions from SKENE'S ELEMENT OF YACHT DESIGN. I still have a copy by the bedside. (parts of it come with a warning. MAY CAUSE DROWSINESS, DO NOT OPERATE HEAVY EQUIPMENT AFTER PPROLONGED READING)

1 Measure area of 2 adjacent stations
2 Average
3 Multiply by length between stations
4 Repeat
5 Add all together
I used 10 stations in that equation
I am using 28 in this one

Using the EXCEL I have eliminated the repetitive multiplying and addition, so I increased the number of stations

Once I finish the EXCEL programme, it will be just inputting the data.

Alessandro has requested an explanation of my displacement calculations. This isn't the usual 'measure the area of the cross-sections and multiply by the length' I did that in high school, and it worked well. I want to try something different this time. This is not my tested and proven method yet. It is still being developed. If there are questions or disagreements, let me know. I will defend or change the method.

The hull design programmes, that are available, have long incorporated what I am attempting here, If the lines of the vessel are done on the computer, the volumes are easily calculated. I am working from old paper drawings. Question I ask here, are there techniques that will allow paper drawn curves to be transferred to computer hull design programmes? In that case, my method becomes obsolete quickly.

Until I find that key this is my method

So, visualize an imaginary box that the vessel will fit into, up to the waterline. Next, take that box and divide it into small CUBES. I have, for convenience, decided to work on a half-hull basis. Luckily, my half-hull happens to work out to 4 units high, by 4 units wide, by 28 units at the waterline. The unit = 2.5cm, from the plan or 5cm on the model. A cube is therefore 2.5 x 2.5 x 2.5 cm^3 for plan or 5cm x 5cm x 5cm^3 for the model.

There are 3 CLASSES of CUBES:

1 cubes outside of the hull lines. these have ZERO for measured hull volume, and are ignored.

2 cubes TOTALLY inside the hull lines are the standard 2.5 x 2.5 x 2.5 cm cube or 15.625 cc's for plan or 125 cc's for model

3 cubes that have hull lines that enter one side of a cube and exit another side of a cube.

Situation 1 and 2 are easy, either zero or 15.625. Like a light OFF or ON

Situation 3
I have decided to find the volume of the average point of entry to the cube to the average length of travel of the hull line through the cube, and the the average point of exit from the cube

My goal here is to find the CENTRE OF BUOYANCY.
By rearranging the adding together of the cubes I should be able to find the centre of buoyancy for the length. the centre of buoyancy for the height. the transverse centre of buoyancy is, of course, the centreline.

The accompanying exhibit shows the calculations for the first stern cross section. You will notice that many of the numbers are either zero (outside the hull) or 2.5 (inside the hull). The numbers between zero and 2.5 are measurements of lines crossing through the cubes

(to open EXCEL here there appears to be a DOWNLOAD MEDIA command in the top left corner)

My BLUENOSE transport vehicle The box is 8 feet long (2.4 metres) load capacity 680 kilograms. more on the volume discussion when I can think that much🙄

huh?

Alessandro

You said that you would like to know how I am doing the volume calculation.This is just a screen shoot of the EXCEL sheet for one third of one eighth of the volume, yes approximately 4%. The INPUT columns are A ,B, C, & D. The rest are calculated fields. It is not difficult. Just tedious. MEASURE, ENTER, REPEAT. The difficult part is to put all this information into order. I know it will be around 1200 cubic inches or 18.6 litres, because of scale, because of the size of original BLUENOSE.
If it was computer designed this information would be a couple of minutes, but all I have is paper plans. so measure

Tell me Alessandro,

Are you actually using tiny pieces of brass to make those tiny rudders👍!?!

(and I think we us the same scissors)

It changes every time the boat reverses direction. They have a special crew member on board. LAMP CHANGER. Bit of a tedious job, but necessary. The job description goes something like:

MUST BE ABLE TO CHANGE ALL LIGHT BULBS SIDE-TO-SIDE AND END-TO-END WHILE AT TERMINAL LOADING AND UNLOADING CARGO AND PASSENGERS.

What!?! You don't believe me? Look it up!

The more modern double-enders have 2 different bulbs at each lamp and a switch connected to the ENGINE REVERSE. Wired sorta like back-up lights on the cars

So what you are saying is:

TO QUAY OR NOT TO QUAY, THAT IS THE QUESTION!

(yes, I'm leaving now)

I know England is more advanced than we are, Garth, but they're NOT A DAY ahead of us, just a few hours😜