Martin555,
You are most welcome. I was glad to help. BTY, my own curiosity forced me to do it. I had always assumed( not a good thing to do as this case shows)
that the three rudders worked together at the same time. I have been educated.
Jonathan

I used a geared motor driver through a Buck step down converter that allowed me to adjust the radar speed to the exact rpm.

I found a nice YouTube video of an Italeri r/c conversion. At about the 2:10 mark he shows the rudder arrangement. It is worth looking at.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2VswNOwyWc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2VswNOwyWc

🔗

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Doug,
That is interesting. When were the outboard "rudders" used and what activated the movement? It sounds like they were moved at specific times and to specific points, rather than proportionally. If so then a computer radio should work well to activate them using a mixer function, which could be set up to just about any parameter. I would do it,, but I gave away my E-boat hull. LOL

The e-boats used the Lurssen effect very well. I would be interesting to try it on your built. It is explained here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BCrssen_effect

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%BCrssen_effect

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Doug,
I stand humbly corrected. But you are right. Still impressive. I would love to be aboard for trials, just once.

Doug,
if I may, I would suggest using resetting fuse, or circuit breakers over here. There is not too much worse than blowing a fuse due to weed or sticks in one's prop and waiting for the wind to blow your boat in, if you are so lucky. With an automatic reset breaker, the reset occurs as soon as the breaker cools don and it give s a chance to get your boat back.
Easily obtained from auto part stores they are very inexpensive, tiny in size and pretty reliable.
last point, fuses and breakers are intended to save one's wiring, not so much so an ESC. That should be done by matching the motor requirements to the ESC. That said, if one's ESC has a high rating, say 35 amps, and the motor only draws 5 amps, the fuse should be designed to save the wiring that feeds the motor and ESC, which should be thus properly sized o that requirement. If we use the ESC as the designator for the fuse size, the wiring will probably melt first.Not an ideal situation.
Jonathan

Here is the link to that video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob2HMH3GnJw
Enjoy.
And yes, we still use sextants!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob2HMH3GnJw

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Doug,
I could not agree more with your points. I have repeatedly read that inboard turning twin wheels give better manoeuvring and that outboard provide higher speeds. As for ELCO's ,and I believe Higgins boats as well, I can only suggest that rather than adding an additional gear to one engine, they choose to have interchangeability and reduced weight. My guess is that production rates out weighed any other concerns.
cheers
Jonathan

Many Thanks Admiral! I have enjoyed the journey.
Jonathan

RNinMunich,
I am pretty sure you know this and have a reason for doing so, but ELCO pt's props all rotated the same direction. I can certainly understand why one would counter rotate the outboard screws though.
Jonathan

Hi Martin,
The crane booms are scratch. Stryrene angle and various bits and pieces.They started out pretty symetrical, but as time went on...The tapered tower that holds the pulleys was turned from a piece of Renshape (expand PVC foam) and then a mold was made and two towers cast. The winch drum is turned PVC.

I think I left off working on the cranes and the aircraft. After that, well it sort of continued for a while, Just adding details took quite a bit. Again, every thing was custom sized for an icebreaker. I did make up my own 40mm quad mounts using twin 40's as a basis. These came from Robert Thomas, a master at resin casting. I made the shields from styrene. Alas, as I have already noted, mine were replaced by even better units from Shapeways. I don't need to add too many more comments tonite, rather I will just post a number of photos that are pretty self explanatory.

Well Fall is here and I had to take some time to start getting "stuff" done, ie, mowing the field, cutting and dragging trees, ect. Now that I have made an apparent attempt to start that, I can continue on the Eastwind Blog.
For some reason, I am losing my narration after posting photos. So I'll be brief. Making masters for deck fittings, molds and casting of fitting was a piecemeal process. I do not have the discipline to do it straight thru. There were many directions of this build and I took whichever one suited my fancy on a given day. I ordered 5'/38 twin mounts, quadruple 40mm Bofors mounts, Hedgehog and Mk51 gun directors from Shapeways. I'd still be struggling without them.
My funnel, which I chose not to make functional, was of sytrene with a detailed exhausts(9) inside. I also planned my lighting about this time, which included 4 24" search lites(Shapeways) butchered to accept LEDs with reflectors. To mount forward and two aft. I painted the deck with her camouflage pattern and later, after all fittings were mounted, spliced in the required colors where needed. There were so many minor major projects within this build,that I get lost sometimes. Eastwind carried a Grumman J2F amphibian which was lower into and out of the water by crane. The aircraft was fairly easy as it was available as a 1/48scale plastic kit, but the cranes were another matter. They were similar to cranes mounted on other USN ships, but I had no plans. They were scratch built of styrene and various castings, again home done. The booms were styrene angle stock and while not perfect are OK at stand off scale.
At this point I want to say why this ship intrigued me. She was about the size of a destroyer, maybe a little short. Quite a bit slower, 16.5 knots with a tail wind and down swell, and she rolled a bit. I believe she once recorded a 70 degree roll. My stomach just did. BUT!! she was loaded to the gills. Her aramentwas, 4x 5"/38 dual pupose guns in twin mounts, 3 x 40mm quadruple Bofors canon mounts, 6 x 20mm Oerlikon machine canon mounts, two depth charge racks, 6 x K guns ( depth charge projectors, 1 x Hedgehog, and 1x J2F float plane. Quite the package. Until next time....

Looks like a motor needs to be suppressed.

Ian,
Just for giggles, has your friend range tested his boat, out of water? It would be interesting to see if the issue arises, especially if the motor in the model is not run. It is very easy to get sent in the wrong direction at times and going back to basics can be a mind saver.
Here is another thought from my archives, what kind of u-joint does the boat run? Metal, plastic, combination? If it is an all metal u-joint, similar to the old Octura units, they have been shown to create EMI, hence the plastic(Delrin) units with metal spiders. Just a thought.

Back in the day, for some of us that means today, EMI was a factor that was dealt with regularly y fitting capacitors to any motor leads. One of the wonders of 2.4 ghz radios is their resistance to EMI. That said, it can still happen, but usually it is there or not. Even if you run a 2.4 ghz radio in your own boat without fitting capacitors, that does not mean that your own boat won't interfere with someone else's if it comes close by your own.
All that said, an easy way to bench test a motor for EMI under load is to simply put the load onn the shaft with your fingers. It should be sufficient to simulate the water load and reveal EMI, if it is there. If not, look for the obvious, start at the battery, be it a pack or BEC.

Pete's reply is a very valid point. make sure that your receiver pack, if you are using one, voltage is up to snuff.
As for extending 2.4 ghz antennas; if the manufacturer makes longer replacement ones then you can try that. (I know that FrSky makes some for some of their receivers, I bought several). I would be hesitant to modify a factory antenna unless a very reputable source said it is OK to do so.
Here is another suggestion. I saw this recently where a gent put his boat in the water and it would not command, but on shore it did. his x-mitter used a screw in antenna and the lead inside the case was loose. Tightened it and all was cheery. Likewise if the antenna is not screwed all the way down onto it's mount screw. i had that happen to me on my F-14 radio. I hope this helps.

PS, having only recently gone over to 2.4 ghz, my learning curve has been steep. That said I recently asked a FrSky rep about the recommendation to mount the receiver antennas at 90 degrees to each other. The response was that in a boat it does not matter and is not required. The 90 degree mounting is more for aircraft because of the multi-dimensional
attitudes that they fly. I have mounted my antennas vertically well above the waterline and achieved full control and very good extended ranges.

Ian,
2.4 ghz receivers are very sensitive to signal blockage,, unlike the older 75 mhz systems. You indicate that the receiver antenna is routed away from other signal noise generators, but what is most important is to get the antenna above the waterline of the model. 2.4ghz will not penetrate water, to any great degree, so the antenna needs to be as high as possible.

Well at this point it was time to start building, now that the tedious job of creating the hull was done. I added the lower bulkward on the bow and the breakwater aft of it. Both were worked out of styrene sheet. Oval eyelet were used for the hawser ports and the tow cable hole was bored. The bridge top carried a MK 51 director, a pair of sky lookouts and a pair of 24" search lights. The enclosure for the MK 51 was,agin, styrene and the fittings themselves were from diStefan's shop at Shapeways. I applied the first of several coats of paint to the deck to layout the camouflage pattern and began locating deck fittings. While I was at it I made the aft pair of 20mm Oerlikon shields and applied them. The Winds had a unoque winch cable roller bitt mount that was mounted aft of the aft house which contained the towing winch. I made this of styrene, turned bits of PVC and anything else handy. A pair of vents made of turned PVC rod and brass tubing, mounted outboard of the bitt assembly finished the install. AND NOW...... I confronted the error of my building choice. There is a wonderful gentleman over here by the name of Robert Thomas who sells beautiful, flawlessly cast resin 1/48 fittings, look up QuarterMaster, mostly for USN destroyers. But, many are applicable to other USN ships...except, icebreakers. It was at this point that I realized how many masters, molds, and castings of deck fittings I would need to make. Pause... Let's think about this... OK, how about a beer? Good Idea. I always think better when my eyes are closed.

When I left off, I had sea trialed Eastwind, successfully. Now I am going to back a fill a bit. The shaft logs have grease tubes soldered into them with aircraft fuel hose fill lines extending to an accessible area. The rudder was built up from aircraft ply. Nothing sissy about this beast. It hangs on three pintals and a foot and is 5/16 inches thick. The rudder shaft is 3/16 brass, cross drilled and tapped for brass machine screws, which lock the shaft into the rudder, but allow the shaft to be removed and hence the rudder as well. I have been using extending double jointed u-joints made of Delrin nylon. I get them from Stock Drive Products, but they are available quite readily. The rudder servo is mounted under the aft superstructure, and if the servo tray is removed, access is gained to the shaft lock set collars and the u-joints set screws on the shafts.
Back when I sealing my deck, I planned my rudder access. I wanted the deck to be watertight, but I also wanted to show the wood decking that covered the steel deck on the full size ship. I F/g'd the deck and added matt. I also cut an access panel for the rudder shaft. The hack ended up being wood decked with a "steel" flange of styrene. From here I moved on the fitting the wood deck, using 1/32 sawed Basswood decking that I got from BlueJacket Shipfitters, just down the road from me. The wood decking extends to the sides of the ship leaving a waterway. The rudder access hatch received it's section of wood decking.
Til next time.

CB90,
Check your PM's. I sent you some scans.

I am backing up for a second here to give do where it belongs. My proops were made, as I had said, by a gent over here, Keith Bender. he is an incredible modeler and specializing in making props. Here are his. Each consisted of a hub, blades and individually soldered nuts. I am also including a PDF of the Eastwind's first cruise. It is enlightening and terrifying. I will continue with my build in my next post.

I ran out of time during my last to finish posting my pictures, so here are some of the props and the interior arrangements. The motors are mounted on a piece of plexiglass. I am a little out of sequence here, but after the shaft logs were installed and the battery tray was fitted, the deck was finished off and covered in F/G. The access panel was cut and coaming installed. The superstructure fi nicely so I moved on. I satisfied myself with her finish after some coats of primer were laid down and sanded, so sea trials were around the corner. Our former town has a nice kiddy pool that makes for a wonderful test facility so off I went. She floated, a tad bow down as the photos show, but did not leak. She went forward and reverse at the appropriate times and even turned in the appropriate direction when commanded, so it was back home to play with paint.
Because of the patterns I use, they are hand brushed. I figure that the slight variations in tone and color here and there add character. My plan is to lay down the initial paint pattern and then detail and touch up from there. I always liked the Western Approaches patterns of the RN and MS12 is as close as a USN ship came to it. It does work well in hazy foggy light.
She is a heavy model. With the batteries tipping 40 lbs, the hull in her finished state runs about 25-30 lbs. Getting her into the water is not quite as bad as it seems. She floats high and is tippy until a battery is installed then she is fine. I add the other one and the superstructure and she is ready to go.
More to follow.

The stuffing tubes were fitted with copious amounts of a gelled F/G ptty filling the gaps. After again copius amounts of sanding and faring the tubes were in place and the shaft logs were installed. The log are made over here and pretty standard stuff. I added grease tubes to them with hoses to allow remote filling. I use a Mercury Marine Teflon impregnated grease which is quite light, completely waterproof and easily come by. With this step completed I finished planking the deck and covered it with epoxy resin and clothe. Sanded fair the deck was ready for the superstructure.
The superstructure of Eastwind was built of Sintra, a PCV foan product that loves CA, is paint ready and cuts with a hobby knife. It is very machinable as well. With the basic structure built I cut the deck opening. The superstructure lifts off as on unit giving a huge access area to the innards of the hull. At this point I started laying out the platform in the hull on which the batteries and motors would mount. To give and idea of the area I had to work with, the batteries powering Eastwind are two 28 amp/hr gel cell batteries. Each battery weighs 20 lbs and the hull needs extra lead to hit her waterline and there is no issue fitting the batteries into her. I also made up her electronis tray which held her three Electrolize ESC's, receiver, BEC, and various electronic switches for her lights. I added her main battery which consisted of two twin 5"/38 caliber dual purpose gun mounts. I added the small aft superstructure which mount the aft gun mount and enclosed her towing winch. Some bottom paint and grey primer and she was ready for initial trials. I have neglected to mention her props. These were built for me by a gent over here. While they appear to be variable pitch props, they were not so. Instead, these props were designed and built with removable, replaceable blades, with the expectation that the ice would be hard on them. As it turned out, it was, especially for the bow prop which was eventually removed from all members of the class.

Many Thanks. I have never been so high so fast before!

I understand. I am still inclined to think that the issue is in the transmitter, but just for the sake of it, have you tried using an external power source, either a separate BEC or a battery pack, for your receiver package? I am not sure why this makes a difference,, but I have run into it.

Thank you for your kind comments. I need to back up for a moment and modify my scale comment. eastwind is built to 1/48th stand off scale, ie 1/48th scale that look about right standing off about 15 feet.
Nowto my build. Eastwind was planked with 1/8x 3/8" bass wood. Her bow and stern were filled with bass wood blocks for the first and last couple of stations. After rough sanding the hull and shaping the blocks I used wood filler on the hull to fill in where needed.
My plan was to then fiber glass the hull, inside and out.
Once the hull was glassed it was primed and I moved on to installing the bow shaft and stuffing tube. A limited amount of decking was laid down to keep things aligned and give the hull more strength, but I still needed to install the stern shafts and stuffing boxes and they would require a lot of access. Around this time I built the prominent bulkward on the bow, added the towing notch to the stern and the stern fender strips.
While it may look like this all went relatively quickly, it did not. I was about six months of steady work to get to this point. Next: a change of pace. Starting the superstructure.

This may ramble a bit as I am not that straight forward. I have always loved icebreakers and thought that they were a very under represented class of vessels in the modeling world. I remember building a plastic kit when I was around 15. It may have been a "Wind" or the Glacier. Either way, at around 14" it was way too small. Around 5 years ago, I stumbled upon an advertisement for a 1/48th laser cut keel and rib set for a Wind class icebreaker. It was a one off the gent was not going to produce it again. I grabbed it up. The "kit" consisted of the keel and a full set of ribs cut from a decent grade of aircraft plywood around 1/4" thick.
The first thing I did was start my research. Which ship, what configurization, date, paint pattern, weapons, ect.
There were seven ships built for the US Navy and Coast Guard combined, and one built for the Canadian Coast Guard. There were many variations, but two ships stood out. The USS Southwind and her sister the Eastwind. I chose the latter. Furthermore I chose to build her pretty much as built and commissioned. This led to her carrying an impressive weapons suite and an aircraft, which just happened to be available in a 1/48th kit form.
There were many challenges to build this model, not the least of which was to get accurate plans and photographs. The US Coast Guard Museum in Seattle, Washington was an immense help in that regard. Next was that research indicated that all equipment on Polar rated ships had to be of larger, stronger sizes than standard CG or Naval standards called for. Ie, lot's of masters and castings to be made in the future. Lastly was the weapons suite, which calle dfor large and unique fittings. Shapeways came to the rescue there. More of all of this as I go along.
These first pictures are of the kit set up, just to get a feel for it, on a build board. Followed by some planks pictures. The shaft logs are unique. They taper for there entire length and the shaft runs through them, but NOT centered. The shaft centered on the outboard end, but off center on the inboard end. I had a local shop turn these for me. WAY above my pay grade.