My son has a couple of 3D printers and has made me several slot car chassis, guides and even gears, a motor pod for an RC glider, a camera pod for a flying wing model and a dummy Ford Model A engine and radiator for a Peitenpol high wing model aircraft. Painted and attached that today. Motor pod is on the glider, waiting to go.
I just wish I could design in CAD for him. We have to go with free files off Thingiverse.


Martin

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Haha, a real example of "you git what you pay for", then, eh?
I thought as much.

Martin

Yep, that's what I thought. OK for formers or bulkheads on airyplanes, but useless for a boat without a considerable extension. Anyway we should be encouraging people to make stuff conventionally and just use machines to save time perhaps when they get to be our age! But come the glorious powercuts, brothers and sisters, they'll all be f***ed and we'll all be knifing away happy as Larry.

Martin

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Apparently the machine uses a brushed 775 motor.

Martin

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HobbyKing are doing a CNC mill for a ridiculous 85 quid! (or thereabouts). And you can replace the head with a laser cutter if you wish. Beyond that, I know nothing of such alchemy.

Martin

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Found a muffler locally and have fitted it. Put a carb full of fuel down its little gob , flicked it and Gor Blimey it ran for 5 seconds at least. Hasn't turned in donkey's years! So IC it is. Just started covering it in Solartex. An ancient roll I've had for years too. Bought originally to cover the cockpit area on my model of Miss Britain III, so almost none missing from the roll. Had trouble with wrinkles, but then found I was using the iron too cool. Turned it up and last night it all went well.

Martin

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Rhino 3D is a very good programme. Developed originally, like CATIA, for aircraft design and also used by boat companies. Used to be available for a certain number of free saves, a student version and the final fairly expensive version for commercial use.

Martin

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Alas, yes. Although I heard some young car fans on the wireless today talking about Metros and other unwanted examples and they even talked of doing their own mechanicking! There are only 10 basic Metros left in the country.

M

Frankly these people are equally disposable in my view (but then I've never liked Earthlings). A good War would sort them out (he said, trying to sound like his Dad)

Martin

Sounds like a nightmare place to live if you have a hobby!
I still use cellulose sanding sealer, but also have shellac type and use cellulose thinners for cleaning all my paints. I won't use water based crap for anything. All it does on wood stuff is raise the grain, the very thing you're trying to stop!
I use spirit based wood stains too. If nothing else I love the smell! So does my wife.

Model shops are shutting because anyone under 50 is likely to be so bloody useless that they wouldn't know balsa from styrene sheet, much less how to use it. So, they buy ready mades off the 'net. Ergo, another model shop goes bust.

I'm no help because, being a tight wad, I make everything I can and buy only things like props and batteries. And I could, if pressed, make the props, too. Lithium I've found a little more difficult to file

Martin

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Not used 2 pack as it's usually toxic. This was an enamel. The really good one was Rylard. Just remembered it. But in fact HRG is as good as the rest and way better than International. Best of all was made for us by Tim at Tramar coatings who used extra alkyd resins and much denser pigment. I used it on the restoration of our wooden boat and it was as good as new 5 years later when we sold it.

Martin

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Jb,
I've tried painting canal narrow boats in international and watched other poor fools try too. No way. No density of pigment, took forever to dry, no coverage even after several coats. Absolute rubbish. Blakes was much better and another, beginning with R was best of all, but it's going back a bit now and I can't recall the name.
Martin

I've often wondered about that, dg, but having always had access to Epoxy, I've always used that to reconstitute rotten window frames, etc. Sufficient to fool a surveyor, anyway

Martin

Excellent product advice, jb, thanks. I wouldn't normally use International as their paint is utter crap, but you seem impressed by Everdure.

Cheers,
Martin

Interesting. I don''t usually have anything to do with water based stuff, except arty paints, but where foam is concerned you have to be very careful.

Cheers,
Martin

She knows I'll play with any likely material, John. I cut a lump out of her net curtains once to make model Rattan for a Riva cocktail cabinet. I would have asked, but she'd gawn shopp'n'.

Pegasus stock Koverall, so I might take a trip over there. It's not TOO far to go.

M

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Wilco. Stuck at the pootah as my back's killing me for some reason ,so workbench is out for the evening and I rarely watch Telly.
Ta.

Martin

Tights, hmm, I've heard of using them. Trouble is, my wife no longer wears them, but I dare say I could get her to buy a pair for me to experiment. Must be cheaper than £60 a sheet! And I must try Ezekote. Anyone know what Ezekote is made of?

Martin

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Ouch! That's too much for me!
Oh well, back to Hobbyking or ebay.

Martin

John, tell us more about Koverall? I have never heard of it or even read of it on model aircraft forums, yet it sounds excellent. I can't quite see what holds it on unless you use their preparation called Stix it. Is this likely to be difficult to get in the UK?

Martin

I thought we were talking Ezebilt. Covering balsa with cloth and other preparations is not Eze. It's a royal faff. Much easier to just use a decent material in the first place like plywood.
I have foam aircraft that are immensely stiff and light. Far more so than balsa, although without that rather crude packing tape they get dented like balsa, but are far less brittle so take crashes more easily. But we were talking about what's easy to build for beginners and no kind of coating is as easy as a basic kit, but that model will break sooner rather than later. Doped tissue might work fairly easily as will cellulose sanding sealer. But that's still a faff and sanding sealer has become a very considerable cost.

Doug, when you mentioned FG, I understood it to be light cloth or tissue, but it needs to be soaked with another coating to make it useful. More faff. I have no experience of Ezekote although I have heard of it.
I covered my mahogany strip planked cutter in epoxy coated cloth, but it took a LOT of rubbing down. But a large heavy boat requires a certain toughness. My other boats are not covered in anything but paint, though they are epoxied internally to allow for water protection. made of plywood and squeegeed with epoxy (no cloth) they are then painted. My old boats of course, are just paint and have never leaked a drip in nearly 60 years, so I am still not convinced by this fashion for encapsulating everything. I fear it might be a cover for poor craftsmanship. I say that as IU rushed the cutter and there were indeed a few gaps, but I am not able to spend the time I used to on projects. If I want an end result I sometimes cheat to save a lot of time. I wanted a model of the boat I'd lived ion, not an exercise in yachtbuilding so I banged the strips on and then covered it. It is now like a rock of course and utterly waterproof for ever.

Martin

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Can't use FG Doug as depron doesn't like Epoxy or polyester. Ezekote might work but what of the heat needed to stick it? Wouldn't that disagree with the foam? I've used vinyl sheet that gets put on cars and vans. When bending Depron you need something to stop it cracking, so packing tape is a favourite. As it is for strengthening the skin of moulded EPP foam models.

Martin

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red,
I suppose you could use Depron for a boat, but it's not ideal as it would need a lot of bracing. I use UHU Por for gluing it, but hot glue gun stuff works if you don't mind spider's webs of glue strings everywhere. Just been gluing up a Skystreak wing by adding the skins in 3mm Depron. I buy it from SLEC who are a pleasant toodle away from me. We have home improvement stores that sell it in biggish amounts. It's intended for under laminate flooring as insulation. It's big problem is the surface. On aircraft it seems people don't mind using covering material or even packing tape, but that would look naff on a boat! Not sure what the answer is really.

Martin

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It's the only way to make them knock proof, DG and is merely a case of doing exactly the same to the skins, twice.

M

DG, I'll take a picture or two of the Marinecraft models and let you work from there.
I would think a good compromise would be to cover harder balsa with 1/64th" ply or even a cheap veneer. veneer can be had cheaply from ebay. Get steamed (Swiss) Pear and you have scale mahogany. Always sanding seal first , THEN stain the finish, never the wood. That would prevent knock damage and help with massively increased strength and still easy cutting.

Martin
Look out for some pics, when I can reach the Marinecraft!

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Martin, tables of offsets are rather like a land surveyor writes down. Because a boat is generally a curved shape in every direction (even more so than some aircraft shapes) it is necessary to divide it up into regular sections and then measure those at equally regular spacings from a datum. That way you get a frame shape which is effectively the shape of the boat in cross section at every regular spacing. 1 or 2 feet from the stem head, all the way back. As long as the boat is set up level, you can take measurements from a fixed datum (say the centre line through the length of the boat or a wall that is parallel to the keel) to any major point such as the deck edge and chines. You need a vertical measurement too which would usually be the floor.
Where these measurements cross is where the dot goes. Eventually, for each section, you join the dots, so to speak and you get a shape, per section. On the Thames Slipper launch, Freebody's boatbuilder, who had worked at Andrews (where slippers originated) lent me the original table of offsets, from which I was able to make frames. Despite the svelte look of a slipper they are actually all straight lined sections/frames, except frame 1 because you can't twist the plywood quite that tightly so there has to be a slight curve in that frame. Also frame 2 is 1 1/4" out on the starb'd side! and every boat they build has an extra bit of oak added! As indeed I had to on the model.
When I asked the Freebody kids who now run the firm since kindly peter died if I could borrow them again they abruptly refused, proving the son is so very often not what the father would have hoped.

Martin

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I am a great fan of the Eezebilt method and ethos, but I despise balsa wood! Hence any more aircraft would be in foam with maybe a hard balsa leading and trailing edge if I must. So, any boat stuff would be done for plywood as weight isn't a problem in boats as it can be in aircraft. But developing a plan can be very time consuming and I have more than enough on the go currently. Once the Cub is done, I shall finish my Skystreak and then I have plans to build a Vulcan and a Jet Provost. JP is a free plan in Friday's coming magazine and I have a Vulcan plan from the flying club hut which needs making a bit more realistic.

I do have a couple of Marinecraft models which are very Eezebilt in style. An open and a cruiser style. They have identical hulls and only the top hamper is different, but being that pathetic balsa stuff they break all the time.

Martin

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I've built models from drawings which needed redrawing as they were so bad. I've also done my own drawings from measurements, used tables of offsets where available and just hacked away at 3mm ply by eye!
But a decent drawing helps. My young sons (as they were at the time) helped me measure the Miss Britain III while it was still at Pitsea. The site manager threw me the keys and told me to get on with it! I was sent works drawings for the Riva Aquarama Special, which I was told were like gold dust. Offsets by Andrews' original boatbuilder gave me the Freebody slipper launch. And a tiny drawing in a 1952 Motor Boat Annual I stole from the Pitsea museum library gave me the details for the Darby One Design. I just enlarged them by drawing, being too tight to pay a print shop, who would never have understood what I wanted anyway.

Martin

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I confess I am in 2 minds over this. Having an OS 10 is ideal, but then it doesn't have a muffler, so I'll have to make one, a bit of a faff. But then, I have fuel, somewhere a glow stik and I think my son even has my old starter for one of his boats. I love the smell and so does my wife so that's no problem. The lack of mess? Well it's only a wipe down with a rag when you're done.
Starting frustration and dead sticks...yes, that's certainly a consideration. Our club is still more IC than electric, so loads of help if needed with recalcitrant engines. I recently re-bearinged an HB 25 and they got that running well on a test stand. Really, it's only the muffler hassle that may yet put me off the OS installation. that and the fact that I've now glued up the firewall where the hole goes for the electric! Although that, of course, is for a big old 550, not a comparatively small brushless.
Of course, then there's the expense. I don't have a big brushless (well I do, but that's in an outboard motor speedboat), I'd need a new ESC and I don't have a suitable battery. Biggest I have is a 2200 3S. Ah, just re-read and seen that's the battery you mention for the Cub.

Martin

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This is a 58.8" span kite, so I think the OS10 will be OK, but not over the top. I'll give it to someone else to fly to start with. The water fittings sound interesting, but I never ever got an engine to work in a boat. I have water fittings for my ED Racer, but would never bother trying to fit them or use them. They're just interesting history.

Steering wheels on soap boxes. Nah, too much weight. A pivoted beam steered by feet was all we needed.

Martin

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