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ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Started by AlessandroSPQR
27 replies 30 likes Last activity: 2 years ago
#28

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Hello everyone, ship modelers.

Talking about basic electronics topics, applicable to RC naval models, this topic came to mind.

I wanted to renew the invitation to post simple (or the simplest possible) ESC circuits for brushed motors (without Bec).

So far there has only been the (very precious) contribution of John and RoyCV, whom I thank immensely.

I left the question pending, waiting for simpler circuits.

Ultimately if nothing else comes, I will take advantage of John's information and Roy's generosity.

For my part, I have only found solutions with Arduino, but that's not what I'm looking for.

Theoretical explanations of general operation, if not a complete circuit, will also be appreciated.
#27

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

This topic was created to collect information and suggestions on a device that is much discussed in the forum but is well known to few.

I already have to thank you for the knowledge I have acquired thanks to you and I don't have much else to add for the moment other than this:

I could see that Roy is a very kind and generous person.
#25

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

It depends on how many amps you want it to run on. You need to check the gain of the transistor and compare it with the the o/p of the transistor driving the big one.

Electronize did a more powerful esc maybe check what was done there. I am passed that sort of design bit now, sorry!

I mentioned I was using the 43 which was happy at 15 amps i.e. European amps not the ones they have in the far east!

regards
Roy
Liked by JOHN and AlessandroSPQR
#24

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

In your opinion, is it sufficient to replace the mosfet (or in any case the final power transistor) with one with a greater current capacity?
#23

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

The power transistors may be mosfet but the Electronize kits I made up had the old fashioned power transistors.
Roy
Liked by AlessandroSPQR
#22

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Thanks so much Roy, fast and precise.
I believe you are referring to the mosfet transistor, not the other BJTs, can you confirm that?
#21

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Hi Allessandro. The ZN409 is a passive chip no programming needed. If you want more power a higher current o/p transistor like a OC29 or 3055 sorry can't remember the numbers. Should be cheap but I can find plenty of them in my tranny collection if needed.
Remember these old power transistors have a 0.7 volt loss across emitter to base and develop unwanted heat.
Roy.
Liked by AlessandroSPQR
#20

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Ok John, I've seen the components, I should already have many of them.

I found that the integrated chip is precisely the ZN409CE, which you told me about in previous posts.
As far as you know, does it have to be programmed or can it just be used like that?
I seem to have understood from the datasheet that no programming is needed, am I wrong?

I don't know if 15 amps are enough, because during the tests, on some occasions, I came close and in some circumstances it could easily be exceeded.
If I have to make an effort I would prefer to do it with a circuit that guarantees higher absorption.
However, it is not excluded that in the absence of other schemes I could start assembling it for pure fun. Let's say that, if I can, I would like to combine usefulness with pleasure.

Even if I have already done so, I thank you again because you were really very kind and helpful in finding all this information material.

As already mentioned, just reading the wiring diagram made me understand many things, answering many questions.

I await other, possible, welcome technical contributions.
#19

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Sorry John, I prepared the translation and I didn't realize that you had already sent the legend.
I'll take a look at it now.


Hi Roy, I'm late reading you too.
Yes, if I manage to assemble everything, the power transistor will have to have some cooling features. I kept some dissipation fins.
I prefer to make the case in plastic even if the voltages are low.
#18

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Hi the queries you have made are all answered on post 14 of this thread!

Good luck

Roy
Liked by AlessandroSPQR
#17

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Hello John. Great John.
A thousand thanks.

I think this could be fine. Of course it's a lot of stuff! A large expense (in the sense of many elements to be found not expensive) and very demanding.

As I was telling you, before deciding whether to make it, I also want to look at other schemes (perhaps simpler), but I like this one.

The next step is to research all the electronic components on the market, checking their availability and then making a shopping list.
I already have some resistors, capacitors and transistors, if I'm lucky they might be fine.

To make the shopping list of this diagram, I absolutely need the values of the components indicated in the diagram:
resistors
variable resistors
capacitors
BJT transistors
zener diode
mosfet
RL

RL1, RL1A and RL1B = ? (I think it's a relay. The RL1 controlled by TR5 is protected by the diode so I think it's the relay coil)
(RL1A and RL1B should switch the voltage for the motor polarity reversal, so they should also be part of the same relay).
Thinking about it, even if they are separated in the diagram, I imagine that RL1 is the coil of the Relais while RL1A and RL1B are the switching contacts of the same relay, both controlled by the RL1 coil.
The relay is controlled by two BJTs (Used as a switch and not as an amplifier.) which are controlled by pins 4 and 11 of IC1.
Can you confirm?

I would also like to know what type of IC1 is (I think I read NE409 but it's not clear).

IC2 should also be specified (in this case I suspect it is from the LM78XX family given the pinout and two capacitors).

Usually each diagram (for example those published by electronics magazines) has a legend attached with all the values and/or acronyms.
for example R1=10 kOhm, etc. etc.
I imagine all the resistors are 250 mW given the low currents involved, but if any have to support higher currents I should know.

Thanks again so much John.



P.S. However, thanks to you John I have already understood many things about the functioning of the ESC and I have cleared many doubts.
#16

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Hi Allesandro, I would make sure you work within an existing box so it can be contained and not touch anything. I have made an esc that fitted into a small tobacco tin box.

If you make the circuit that John posted then you will need a metal lid as the power transistor is bolted to this and uses it as a heat sink.
I think it was insulated electrically though. I will have a look and see if I have the Electronize construction notes, they were on a pcb though!

My first DIY esc was called 'The Pompei' esc (The name was an abreviation of Portsmouth), it pre-dated even the dual in-line ic outline chips, and was a round container with 8 legs coming out. It was constructed on Veroboard and fitted into the tobacco tin. It was published in the defunct Radio Control modellers magazine.

Regards
Roy
Liked by AlessandroSPQR
#15

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Hi John the circuit diagram you have posted is for the Electronize esc. I used to buy mine in kit form and never had a problem. With one boat that used 2 off Speed 600's each consuming 7 amps (on load) I had just one esc rated at 15 amps.

I made a back plate the same size soldered 2 square tubes to it and joined two ends with some neoprene tubing and the other ends were taken to water tubes under the boat, one in and the other out.

The esc ran stone cold while the batteries were too hot to touch!

The suffixes indicate if there is a BEC in the circuit.
regards
Roy
#14

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

👍👍
Liked by AlessandroSPQR
#13

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

hi there

As usual, when you are looking for one thing - you find another - I was looking for the Maplins circuit diagram, I came across two 'old' Electronize circuit diagrams. These can hold up to 15 amp.

Somewhere, I do have a circuit diagram for a PIC chip speed controller but you do have to have the ability to programme the PIC chip. There are bound to be codes for the PIC chip on line though.

So, I will keep on looking for the other circuit diagrams.

I am easily distracted and find something interesting and my mind wanders off....

see what I mean about my mind wandering off. I will have to find the components pages now to see what the value are of the components..... oh well busy is the happiest way to be as the old song also says - they are coming to take me away haha!

😀🙄🙄

John
Liked by AlessandroSPQR
#12

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Hi John.

First of all, thanks for your reply.

I looked for the integrated amplifier you indicated, the ZN409CE.
At the bottom there is the datasheet, but I haven't found any other diagrams.
In fact, 5 amps are not enough and 30 euros are too much.

Now I'll proceed like this: I'm waiting for any electrical diagrams and I'll look for some too.
Then (if positive) I will order the various components, including resistors and capacitors, then I will do some tests on a breadboard. If it works I will solder the components on a thousand-hole plate and I will share the result with you.

I'm aiming for a very simple scheme (without integrated BEC and without particular functions), furthermore I won't use smd components (too difficult for me to solder) because I don't need to make it very small.
#11

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Why is this thread much wider than the other threads in discussion? I have to keep scrolling sideways to read the posts.
Roy
Liked by Colin H
#10

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

I just checked my 40 odd 555 timer i/cs. At their prices that is most of a return ticket to Australia!

I did check with a trader 4 or 5 years ago who was selling OC42s at a couple of pounds each. I had an unused bag of them, maybe 80 -100. He laughed and said he was trying to sell off his old stock, so no sale!
Roy
Liked by AlessandroSPQR and Colin H
#9

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Hi John then if you find some old servos it might be worth harvesting the ZN409s at that price. I have one or two unused possibly in a Fleet servo repair kit.
I made a couple of those and they were not reliable but I think it was a separate transistor that was failing.

Thanks for reminding me.
Roy
Liked by AlessandroSPQR and Colin H
#8

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

well hello there, as you can gather, the majority of modern day speed controllers rely on pic chips at their heart. These basically replaced the Phillips ZN409CE chip, this chip used to be the main stay of all 'old' pulse speed controllers.

Now, if you can get hold of a book - Electronic Projects for Model Boats by Ken Ginn - there are several diagrams in there for speed controllers - which use ZN409E chips. These chips can be found on various auction sites and if you google it they come up on Google some time. The last one I tried to obtain though - was priced at £30 for one chip!

I do have, somewhere, a circuit diagram for the 'old' Maplins' speed controller. This also uses a ZN409E chip. This speed controller was only rated at 5 amp.

John
Liked by AlessandroSPQR and Colin H and
#7

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Don't worry Roy, it's no problem.

So Aliexpress can rest easy for a while, ahahahahah.

I understand you, I did a job different from what I studied so I've been more than rusty for many years unfortunately.

Maybe someone can give us a diagram and more information.
I'm counting on it because I've seen that there are specific technical skills in this forum.

Furthermore, you can grow gradually, even by asking, as you wrote in another post.
For example, there were those who didn't use fuses until yesterday and now they use them, as well as the separate power supply on the receiver.
Liked by Colin H
#6

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Hello first I have not designed/made any controllers for 30 odd years now. The last ones I made were from kits usually Electronize.
I also made up a Micron RC kit with Tx and Rx and still have it but it has a small fault.

But that was 27Mhtz FM, I still have the receivers in use in my sailing yacht Condor, see harbour.

Secondly the circuits I used had a central chip which is no longer around.

I was a great one for looking at other circuits and doing a bit of mixing etc. But buying the chips meant you had to follow the original design anyway!

The advert I put up showing my current esc's is impossible to make at home.
The last time I was making up circuits was looking for a design of a zero crossing switch i.e. 5 volt logic switching 10 amps 240 volts AC.

A bit dangerous to get wrong so I gave up and bought the units in and made the controller on a semi commercial basis.

So sorry no circuit, but I will look out the BEC one if wanted.

Roy
Liked by Colin H and AlessandroSPQR
#5

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Great Roy.

"Sorry must not go aff piste."
Ahahahahaha

If you have time and if you want, you could draw me (even in pen) a circuit of a brushed esc.
I would like to make it for fun (it's not true, I want to compete with the Chinese on Aliexpress, ahahahahah).

Don't worry about the result, if I burn some electronic components it won't matter.
I looked on the internet but the diagrams don't convince me very much.
Liked by Colin H
#4

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Hi I mentioned FET transistors, Mosfets, all the same family. The 555 chip is a timer the 556 is a double 555. Not used in servos I used to use. The 555 is often used as a servo tester though.

I have loads of them all looking for a home but they are dead cheap now.
I used to repair my own servos but can't remember the number of the i/c, I think I still have a few, somewhere.

I remember making half a dozen model railway controllers, but now I use Gaugemaster as it is not worth the hassel and Gaugemaster have total life guarantee, but never had one go wrong.
Sorry must not go aff piste.

I also made my own BECs using a Zenor diode and a small TIP 2 amp transistor. I can post a circuit if anyone interested. Back then the BEC was usually in the receiver, not the esc.

Acoms brought out an esc with the current over ride and I borrowed one and traced that part of the circuit. It was the same circuit as had appeared in a magazine article! I wonder which came first! But there again there were not many ways of doing it.

regards
Roy
Liked by Colin H and AlessandroSPQR
#3

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Hi Roy.

I would not like to make mistakes but the power transistor should be a mosfet, (for example an IRF 520 or 540).

The central point could be an integrated as IC 555 or 556, for example. But in case of greater complexity others are needed.
One of the feet checks the mosfet.
The entrance signal to the integrated could come from the recipient after being amplified with one or more transistors like BJT.
Logically, resistance and capacitors are needed.
I wonder the PWM signal can be directed (after possible amplification) directly to the mosfet gain, avoiding the presence of the integrated.

I also invoke the qualified opinion of Edw and Doug (Rninmunich).
Liked by Colin H and hermank
#2

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Hi all, in the early esc's the early servo decoding chip was used and the 50 cycle (from the Tx) was received and this was used as the pulse rate for the speed control.
Various transistors used as amplifiers but for everyone there was a 0.7 volt drop across the emitter / base junction.

This could be overcome by a simple current sampling circuit that when full power was selected a low powered transistor would call a relay which by-passed the amplifier so reducing the power lost.
This kind of esc would have a largish heat sink.

The esc s then started using the newer FET (Field Effect Transistors) transistors that had just a 0.1 volt drop and so hardly needed any heat sinks.

After that the duty cycle of pulses operating the drive motor went up 2 or 4 Khtz, which is the whistle you hear when in operation.

I bailed out after that in DIY construction as escs were reducing in price. I would be happy to know how the ones I use now work as they are so small and do not get warm even.

Roy
Liked by hermank and Colin H and
#1

ANATOMY OF THE ESC FOR BRUSHED MOTORS. HOW THEY ARE MADE AND HOW THEY WORK IN THE DETAIL OF THEIR EL

Hello to all naval modelers.

This topic has been discussed in another topic but I prefer to take it out of there and deal with it separately.

I would like to know how modern ESCs for Brushed motors are built.

I would like to know if anyone has any electrical diagrams and functional block diagrams or is able to describe them.

By modern I mean to exclude those that acted mechanically (with a servo, for example) on potentiometers or resistors.

I have never opened one and therefore I am not able to establish at least the basic principles based on the individual components.

I copy part of the post here:
Do modern ESCs have any "similarities" to switching power supplies that have replaced classic linear power supplies?

Clearly they do not have the function of lowering and rectifying the voltage (from 230 AC to 6-24 DC for example).
I am referring only to the part that adopts PWM and Duty Cycle.
I am referring to the ON - OFF switching to vary the voltage, from the maximum voltage (which can be drawn from the battery) to the minimum voltage.

I'm making some assumptions (perhaps with many errors so as to stimulate the discussion, ahahahahahah):

I don't think there is a need for the initial filter (inductors and capacitors) to clean the signal as happens in switching power supplies, given that the voltage comes from a "clean" source such as batteries.
I don't think there is a need for the Graetz bridge (diode bridge) immediately after as in switching power supplies.
And not even the little high frequency transformer? I'm thinking about it.
The PWM signal comes from the receiver. Okay.
Here it could be managed by an integrated circuit that controls the power transistors to create a duty cycle which will then provide the desired voltage.
Is there a need for capacitors at the end for leveling?
Maybe there isn't even any opisolator for feedback.
Who knows what it's like inside this ESC we talk about every time?

For simplicity's sake, for the moment, we could leave out the discussion of the integrated BEC.

Thanks in advance to everyone who wants to help me and have their say.
Digressions of all kinds are allowed! Ahahahahahaha.
Liked by JockScott and hermank and

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