"This is why motors were invented. The naming of sails was too difficult and controversial"

This is beautiful, CommodoreH, ahahahahahahahahah.

OK!

Now tell me, what fuel goes in the engine, where do I get some, and who makes the best engine?😉

This is why motors were invented. The naming of sails was too difficult and controversial

😛

This could be the case when the wrong sail is shown.

If you could, you should show him his own Fore Sail.
He (like any other commander) will not discard it by seeing his Fore sail.
At the same time (seeing it and not discarding it), he will tell you that he calls it a "randa" because it is a trapezoidal sail (whether narrow or wide) set on three sides: boom, mast and gaff.

While you're at it, get a photo of his Main Sail (just the sail) and repeat the investigation with that new sample sail, hahahaha.

Prof Moriarty, I have spoken with Marco Tibiletti, commander of the schooner OLOFERNE. He confirms that the sample sail is not the fore sail from the OLOFERNE. Another vessel is eliminated from the suspect list. We are now down to 2 of the original vessels, do you wish to concede yet?

For the moment I take the word "Gaff Sail" at face value, it seems to me to be the most popular for now.

But of all Doyle's characters, Moriarty doesn't seem like the best I could have chosen.

Prof Moriarty, You are cunning as you are intelligent. I look forward to the conclusion of this game

I think I'll have to change the attached image of the sample sail, or put a dozen different ones (but all trapezoidal), hahahaha.

I have checked the records of the admiralty, I have found the fate of the THOMAS W LAWSON. She was lost November 19 1907 in the Isles of Scilly. In that she carried 4000 sq m of sail and the luff of her sails, except for the spanker, was almost parallel to the leech, our sample could not be her fore sail. She can be eliminated as a suspect

Yes Holmes, I wrote it to you myself: the first ones concern the second (after the Amerigo Vespucci) training ship of the Italian Navy.

The sample examined is for example only, consider any trapezoidal shaped sail for your investigations.

But what a cooked smell in Baker Street!
AHAHAHAH

DR WATSON! I HAVE FOUND THE XARIFA! She was built in 1927 but was refitted in 2014. She is still active!! But alas, with her LOA of 47.24 M anything the likes of the sample we have in hand would be too small for her, and so she must be eliminated for the list. It cannot be her fore sail

OK HERE WE GO!

ME THINKS THE GAME IS AFOOT, PROF. MORIARTY.

DR WATSON, the first three photos are the same vessel. with no fore and aft sail on the foremast therefore they are eliminated from the list of suspects!! The aspect ratios of photos 3, & 5 fore sails don't match the sample that we were given earlier today, and so they may also be eliminated. I must go disguised to examine the others, and Mrs Hudson is holding dinner for us, so that is enough for today. We may retire to 221B for the evening

"do I get falling balloons and colored paper?"

hahahahahahahahah, Ross I'm not the one who knows the answer.
I just asked the question.

However, your choice of letter (e) now makes me clearly understand your opinion on the matter.
It doesn't take S. Holmes or Maigret (so we pay homage to our Belgian friend Hermank) to arrive at the logical deduction that you discard the solution: "Gaff Sail".

Instead, I do not agree with the reasons for excluding Fore Sail. To begin with, the same reason would also concern Mizzen Sail.
What I put is an example sail, I could have put it higher and narrower, more elongated. The shapes of this sail are very different, the only thing they have in common is that they are always irregular trapezoids.
You can't compare them because you only see one (omg it seems like a riddle, hahahahahahaha).
Also, the fact that Fore Sails are getting narrower is not true. In many ships they are almost identical to the Main Sail.
I attach some photos just as an example.
In the first images you can see the second training ship of the Italian navy, the Palinuro.

🤔🤔I would personally eliminate FORE SAIL⛵ because fore sail would tend to be narrower

But without knowing what boat it came from

e)

do I get falling balloons and coloured paper?😀

What you say is all correct Ross but to get a more limited answer let's pretend that this is the question of the day.
I'll show you the photo of the sail (only the sail) in question and ask you:
What is this sail called?
a) MAIN SAIL
b) FORE SAIL
c) MIZZEN SAIL
d) GAFF SAIL
e) It is not possible to answer if you cannot see where she is positioned.

Which letter do you choose?
Sorry, there are five options instead of the usual four, hahahahahahahah.


P.S.: I really like this topic: nautical, sails, ships, etc. etc.

So Alessandro, yes a sail is fully named if you know what position it came from, on the boat. A sail is very specific to its boat. The sailor of THAT boat would know where that sail belongs and could name it immediately

A tire is only a tire, until it is on the front wheel of the car, then it is the front tire

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Ross, you wrote:
"If I had to guess I would say a MAIN SAIL if it is from a schooner"
That's not good because that type of sail on a schooner could be either a mainsail or a foresail. In a Ketch it could be a mainsail or a mizzensail.

So in your opinion she doesn't have a specific name, not linked to the mast on which she is linked?

Thank you Frankiesays1953 for your comprehensive explanation.
We Italians also call modern triangular sails "randa Bermuda-type" (but also Marconi-type due to the resemblance to some radio antennas).
Basically I think I have understood that the sail of this shape suitable to be maneuvered both by a boom but also by the gaff is called GAFF SAIL. If the GAFF sail is on the main mast it will be a main sail, on the foremast it will be a foresail and on the mizzen mast it will be a mizzen sail.
If I understood correctly and this is indeed the case, then the information they gave me is correct.

Thanks Jumpugly, concise and clear. I think your father's opinion should be taken into serious consideration.

Alessandro: I like Frankie's response! My Dad used to call the main sail on a sloop a Gaff sail. This particular illustration bears this out a bit. 😊

Gaff rig is a sailing rig in which the sail is four-cornered, fore-and-aft rigged, controlled at its peak and, usually, its entire head by a spar called the gaff. Because of the size and shape of the sail, a gaff rig will have running backstays rather than permanent backstays. With a Bermuda rigged sail boat the main sail is triangular, the mainsail has a wire sewn into it which fits into a slot on the rear of the mast and pulled up to the top of the mast using a halyard, the boom fixed to the bottom of the sail which is tensioned downwards to give the sail a bit of firmness. The top of the sail needs no support as it is the acute “pointy” bit. On a gaff/rigged boat with the gaff sail having four sides the top part needs supporting or it would sag down. So as well as having a boom attached to the length of the bottom of the sail it also has another “boom” attached to the opposite top edge of the sail - this is the gaff. The gaff usually has a U shaped fork at the mast end which is connected around the base of the mast and hauled up to as far up the mast as it needs to be. It stands to reason therefore that a gaff sail can be distinguished by the gaff across the top of it.

Does this mean you keep your friends close and your enemies closer😉?

Without the mast position that can only be named as a sail for a gaff rigged boat either MAIN SAIL or FORE SAIL. If I had to guess I would say a MAIN SAIL if it is from a schooner

Hi RossM.

"You must know that if you say SAILS and SCHOONER that I will not be able to stay away Current drawing on the drawing board . . ."
But you don't have to stay away you have to stay close. Your opinion matters.

In the meantime, thank you very much for the detailed sail plan of your schooner. I have also come across these terms in other sources and I think I have learned almost all of them. They mostly take their name from their position or more precisely from the mast to which they are inferred.

But if I show you this photo (see the only photo attached) without showing you where it is positioned and I ask you what this sail is called, what will you answer?
In Italy we would say "randa".

Alessandro,

You must know that if you say SAILS and SCHOONER that i will not be able to stay away😁Current drawing on the drawing board . . .

On the BLUENOSE, there are 8 sails
In order from top to bottom and bow to stern:

JIB TOPSAIL
JIB
JUMBO (large jib near the deck)
FORE GAFF TOPSAIL
FORE SAIL
STAYSAIL (between the masts)
MAIN GAFF TOPSAIL
MAIN SAIL
Every sail is named for its mast and its position on that mast.What I have listed as STAYSAIL was also known as FISHERMAN'S STAYSAIL which is a 4 sided sail.A three sided STAY sail before the foremast is a FORESAIL, a JIB, or a HEADSAIL

The naming of sails would also vary by region or country.

The sail naming got more complex with the great Tea Clippers (Dawson's painting of ARIEL AND TAEPING rounding the Cape Horn on the race back from the Far East with the new crop of tea. TAEPING docked 28 minutes ahead of ARIEL)