Sorry, I made a mistake in inserting the post into this topic.
If you are interested in the topic it is here:
https://model-boats.com/forum/138947#138947
Hello Jumpugly
Thank you for introducing me to this wreck and this story.
I had to do some research on the internet because I couldn't find much about the books.
It's a very interesting story that without you I wouldn't have known or I would have known who knows when.
Shipwrecks, however tragic, are a mine of information and teachings for mankind, not just for lovers of ships and the sea.
Many people are fascinated by the treasures that can be recovered and this is true, because often in addition to coins and jewels made of precious metals or minerals, valuable museum pieces can be recovered.
However, I am interested in another aspect of these sad events.
What were the reasons for the shipwreck, what flaws were hidden in the initial project or in the subsequent disastrous modifications.
Sometimes it is not cannon fire that sinks ships or storms but fatal errors.
These teach a lot.
One of the most emblematic cases was that of Vasa.
When I read the story of this incredible (but in retrospect we could say obvious and predictable) shipwreck I was very impressed.
A separate topic should be opened on this topic.
It is so significant that, when I find myself in situations in which the incompetence and arrogance of a superior imposes deleterious choices which then invariably cause disasters, I cite the example of the Swedish galleon and that terrible King Gustav II.
Among static naval modellers, the Vasa is one of the most reproduced (at least in Italy).
Thank you for introducing me to this wreck and this story.
I had to do some research on the internet because I couldn't find much about the books.
It's a very interesting story that without you I wouldn't have known or I would have known who knows when.
Shipwrecks, however tragic, are a mine of information and teachings for mankind, not just for lovers of ships and the sea.
Many people are fascinated by the treasures that can be recovered and this is true, because often in addition to coins and jewels made of precious metals or minerals, valuable museum pieces can be recovered.
However, I am interested in another aspect of these sad events.
What were the reasons for the shipwreck, what flaws were hidden in the initial project or in the subsequent disastrous modifications.
Sometimes it is not cannon fire that sinks ships or storms but fatal errors.
These teach a lot.
One of the most emblematic cases was that of Vasa.
When I read the story of this incredible (but in retrospect we could say obvious and predictable) shipwreck I was very impressed.
A separate topic should be opened on this topic.
It is so significant that, when I find myself in situations in which the incompetence and arrogance of a superior imposes deleterious choices which then invariably cause disasters, I cite the example of the Swedish galleon and that terrible King Gustav II.
Among static naval modellers, the Vasa is one of the most reproduced (at least in Italy).
Could be bigger than the wreck of the Galleon “Atocha.” That came in at $400 Million!
https://maritime-executive.com/editorials/the-world-s-most-valuable-shipwreck-the-nuestra-senora-de-atocha
I report an article on the merits of the news.
The government of Colombia announced a few days ago that it will finance a submarine mission in the Caribbean Sea, within its national waters (the exact location is kept secret) to explore the wreck of the San José, a Spanish galleon that sank in 1708 , more than three hundred years ago. The ship was part of the Spanish treasure fleet, i.e. the system of maritime convoys that transported valuable materials between the Iberian Peninsula and the American colonies of the Spanish crown. The cargo, consisting of gold, silver and emeralds, is believed to be one of the largest maritime treasures of all time and is valued at around $17-20 billion. The mission has archaeological purposes, but the cargo is also claimed by a US company, Spain and a native people of Bolivia.
The San José was a Spanish galleon with a displacement of 1051 tons, armed with 68 cannons. She was launched in 1698 in the Basque shipyards, considered among the best in the Hispanic navy. On 8 June 1708, in the context of the War of the Spanish Succession (1701-1714), a great conflict that opposed the main European powers, the Spanish treasure fleet, of which the San José was part, was attacked by four ships from English war off the coast of Cartagena, in the Caribbean Sea, in present-day Colombia. During the battle, which ended with a British victory, the San José's magazine was hit, causing a gigantic explosion that literally tore the unfortunate ship to pieces. The galleon sank within moments, and of the 600 men aboard her only 11 survived.
The remains of the galleon would be found within Colombian national waters. Despite this, a private American company, Sea Search Armada, claims to have found the wreck of the San José off the Colombian coast as early as 1981, and to have given the location to the Bogotá government in exchange for half the treasure.
The Colombian navy instead claimed in 2015 that it had found the remains of the ship in a different position than the one communicated by the Americans, at about 600 m of depth. For this reason there would be nothing in common with the Sea Search Armada. To protect the wreck from treasure seekers, the Colombian government has decided not to disclose the location of the ship.
In addition to Colombia and Sea Search Armada, another country would also like to have a say regarding the San José, namely Spain. According to the UNESCO convention, of which Spain is a signatory, the wreck could rightfully belong to Madrid, as a warship of the crown and a submerged military cemetery. The Qhara Qhara, a native people of Bolivia, also claim to have rights to the galleon's cargo, given that the precious minerals were mined on their lands.
In reality, for now Colombia seems to have no intention of recovering the treasure for economic purposes. Already in 2016, the desire emerged not to consider San José as an economic asset, but as part of the archaeological heritage. For now, the Minister of Culture Juan David Correa has announced that the wreck will be explored with the help of a self-driving submarine which will only recover some artefacts for an archaeological study. The missions to 600 m depth will begin between April and May. The site will not be affected and its scientific and archaeological value will remain protected by the Bogotá government, at least for now. The minister himself announced:
“We need to stop thinking of this as a treasure. […] It is a submerged archaeological heritage of crucial importance for the culture of Colombia”.
The treasure contained as cargo by the San José galleon, the result of Spanish colonial exploitation of Peruvian mines, was composed of gold, silver and emeralds with a value estimated today between 17 and 20 billion dollars. For this reason, the discovery of its wreck has been one of the most important objectives for many treasure hunters over the last three centuries. On the other hand, if a wreck within 200 nautical miles of a country's coast belongs to that country, other rules apply in international waters. The State to which the ship belonged, if it still exists, has the right to claim the wreck, but in reality the wreck, with its cargo, belongs to whoever finds it first.
Despite the prospect of immense profits, we must not forget that the wrecks are archaeological sites in all respects. In 2001, the UNESCO Convention on the Protection of Underwater Cultural Heritage was launched, for the protection of wrecks and their archaeological value. Many countries have ratified this document, but signatories do not include, for example, the United States, the United Kingdom, Russia, Canada, Brazil and Germany. In fact, it is in these countries that the majority of private companies that deal with the search and recovery of submerged cargoes for economic purposes reside. Many of these have already found wrecks and recovered treasures around the world, without however taking into account the protection of archaeological heritage. According to UNESCO, underwater excavations, conducted without scientific criteria and solely with the prospect of profit, irremediably damage archaeological contexts.
I remind you that this is a recent press article, therefore it should be taken as such. It may contain errors or inaccuracies.
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The government of Colombia announced a few days ago that it will finance a submarine mission in the Caribbean Sea, within its national waters (the exact location is kept secret) to explore the wreck of the San José, a Spanish galleon that sank in 1708 , more than three hundred years ago. The ship was part of the Spanish treasure fleet, i.e. the system of maritime convoys that transported valuable materials between the Iberian Peninsula and the American colonies of the Spanish crown. The cargo, consisting of gold, silver and emeralds, is believed to be one of the largest maritime treasures of all time and is valued at around $17-20 billion. The mission has archaeological purposes, but the cargo is also claimed by a US company, Spain and a native people of Bolivia.
The San José was a Spanish galleon with a displacement of 1051 tons, armed with 68 cannons. She was launched in 1698 in the Basque shipyards, considered among the best in the Hispanic navy. On 8 June 1708, in the context of the War of the Spanish Succession (1701-1714), a great conflict that opposed the main European powers, the Spanish treasure fleet, of which the San José was part, was attacked by four ships from English war off the coast of Cartagena, in the Caribbean Sea, in present-day Colombia. During the battle, which ended with a British victory, the San José's magazine was hit, causing a gigantic explosion that literally tore the unfortunate ship to pieces. The galleon sank within moments, and of the 600 men aboard her only 11 survived.
The remains of the galleon would be found within Colombian national waters. Despite this, a private American company, Sea Search Armada, claims to have found the wreck of the San José off the Colombian coast as early as 1981, and to have given the location to the Bogotá government in exchange for half the treasure.
The Colombian navy instead claimed in 2015 that it had found the remains of the ship in a different position than the one communicated by the Americans, at about 600 m of depth. For this reason there would be nothing in common with the Sea Search Armada. To protect the wreck from treasure seekers, the Colombian government has decided not to disclose the location of the ship.
In addition to Colombia and Sea Search Armada, another country would also like to have a say regarding the San José, namely Spain. According to the UNESCO convention, of which Spain is a signatory, the wreck could rightfully belong to Madrid, as a warship of the crown and a submerged military cemetery. The Qhara Qhara, a native people of Bolivia, also claim to have rights to the galleon's cargo, given that the precious minerals were mined on their lands.
In reality, for now Colombia seems to have no intention of recovering the treasure for economic purposes. Already in 2016, the desire emerged not to consider San José as an economic asset, but as part of the archaeological heritage. For now, the Minister of Culture Juan David Correa has announced that the wreck will be explored with the help of a self-driving submarine which will only recover some artefacts for an archaeological study. The missions to 600 m depth will begin between April and May. The site will not be affected and its scientific and archaeological value will remain protected by the Bogotá government, at least for now. The minister himself announced:
“We need to stop thinking of this as a treasure. […] It is a submerged archaeological heritage of crucial importance for the culture of Colombia”.
The treasure contained as cargo by the San José galleon, the result of Spanish colonial exploitation of Peruvian mines, was composed of gold, silver and emeralds with a value estimated today between 17 and 20 billion dollars. For this reason, the discovery of its wreck has been one of the most important objectives for many treasure hunters over the last three centuries. On the other hand, if a wreck within 200 nautical miles of a country's coast belongs to that country, other rules apply in international waters. The State to which the ship belonged, if it still exists, has the right to claim the wreck, but in reality the wreck, with its cargo, belongs to whoever finds it first.
Despite the prospect of immense profits, we must not forget that the wrecks are archaeological sites in all respects. In 2001, the UNESCO Convention on the Protection of Underwater Cultural Heritage was launched, for the protection of wrecks and their archaeological value. Many countries have ratified this document, but signatories do not include, for example, the United States, the United Kingdom, Russia, Canada, Brazil and Germany. In fact, it is in these countries that the majority of private companies that deal with the search and recovery of submerged cargoes for economic purposes reside. Many of these have already found wrecks and recovered treasures around the world, without however taking into account the protection of archaeological heritage. According to UNESCO, underwater excavations, conducted without scientific criteria and solely with the prospect of profit, irremediably damage archaeological contexts.
I remind you that this is a recent press article, therefore it should be taken as such. It may contain errors or inaccuracies.
MAYBE WE WILL RECOVER THE SAN JOSE'.
Hello everyone.
This could be interesting news for ship lovers in general and for those who love ancient ships in particular.
Who knows if we will be able to do something similar to Vasa.
It will be very difficult and the situations are very different.
In the coming months, the Colombian government will explore the wreck of the San José, a Spanish galleon that sank more than 300 years ago, with an autonomous submarine.
Its cargo of gold, silver and emeralds is believed to be worth an estimated $17-20 billion.
This could be interesting news for ship lovers in general and for those who love ancient ships in particular.
Who knows if we will be able to do something similar to Vasa.
It will be very difficult and the situations are very different.
In the coming months, the Colombian government will explore the wreck of the San José, a Spanish galleon that sank more than 300 years ago, with an autonomous submarine.
Its cargo of gold, silver and emeralds is believed to be worth an estimated $17-20 billion.
