Lifeboats or work boats?

Started by AlessandroSPQR
18 replies 57 likes Last activity: 1 year ago
#19

Lifeboats or work boats?

Hi JockScott I think it's a good method for such small boats.
Alternatively, there is the 3D printer, but I would still have to do the drawing.
Try your method, if you are not satisfied I will try to make the drawing and send it to you in any case.
Liked by JockScott and Mike Stoney
#18

Lifeboats or work boats?

Yes Alessandro, the boats will only be 53.3mm long. I planned to make it from 2 half's of bass wood (Linde) pre-shaped with a .5mm centreline frame of styrene glued together and then shaped with a fine rasp and sand paper to what it should be based on my best rendition of what they looked like.
Liked by Mike Stoney and AlessandroSPQR
#17

Lifeboats or work boats?

Yes Alessandro, the boats will only be 53.3mm long. I planned to make it from 2 half's of bass wood (Linde) pre-shaped with a .5mm centreline frame of styrene glued together and then shaped with a fine rasp and sand paper to what it should be based on my best rendition of that they looked like.
Liked by Mike Stoney and AlessandroSPQR
#16

Lifeboats or work boats?

Hi Jock, the images aren't great and unfortunately the front view is missing (which would have given me the indication of the larger frame).
However, without any guarantee of success and with very long times, I could try if you like.
But there is another problem, if I haven't made a mistake in the calculations (i.e. a simple division) an eight meter long boat on its tanker means little more than 5 cm. It is very small to make it in wood with the planking method. I made 4 of them twice as long and a little more and I had quite a bit of difficulty.
An important question: if I provided you with the drawing in two 2d would you then like to make it in wood?
If you say yes, even just to try then I'll try to draw it too.
Liked by Mike Stoney
#15

Lifeboats or work boats?

Alessandro, I have enclosed photos of the lifeboats on the GA Plan with shape and dimensions. I may be able to visit Hamburg in the next few month and plan my usual trip to the IMM for some close up shots of the lifeboats I am looking for.
Liked by Mike Stoney and AlessandroSPQR and
#14

Lifeboats or work boats?

Hi Mike, as I already told you in your "build blog", I like your boat a lot, I think it is expertly made.
The problem is that our boats are not suited (hull shape) to JockScott's tanker.
If one of mine was the right shape, we would have already solved every problem because I can scale the 2d plane (keel and frames) to the desired size.
Liked by Mike Stoney and Peejay
#13

Lifeboats or work boats?

Oh no Alessandro. . .
I just wanted to add my two cents! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
(In deutsch: wollte nur meinen Senf dazu geben)
Lately I've had a few interruptions in my gluing time and I'm happy to write along . .
You explain everything perfectly without sliming up, your boats are awesome.
When I look at my fantasy lifeboats, I am satisfied in my own way.
To each his own, a little more for me! 🤔🤔🤔
A little Swiss humour at breakfast . . .
Your Michel-C.
if you don't ask, you won't get an answer!
Liked by Peejay and hermank and
#12

Lifeboats or work boats?

Hi Mike, I only wanted to evaluate the possibility of drawing the boats (not the entire model). Only the lifeboats. Was this clear or did I explain myself poorly?
Liked by Peejay and hermank and
#11

Lifeboats or work boats?

Hi Alessandro!
You can find so many documents on the Internet, although the scale of the model boat must be taken into account.
If you want to build a model like the original, that's one thing.
If you are building a boat like my paddle steamer, for example, which is not a real one, you can let your imagination run wild. Every kind of building has its charm . . I let myself be inspired by the Internet and its pictures. Whether it's true or not doesn't matter to me. But if you want to copy a giant ocean liner, this is a higher segment of building. I even have to take my hat off . .
Model building, to each his own, right?
The work on offer here is simply amazing! real art, friends of model boat building. Perfect!
And the great thing is that everyone can show their ideas without being ridiculed.
We are among ourselves!
Your Michel-C.
if you don't ask, you won't get an answer!
Liked by Peejay and hermank and
#10

Lifeboats or work boats?

Hi JockScott, regarding the cut text, this is due to the fact that you inserted an internet link (copy paste of URL).
On this site you have to do it at the end if you don't want all the written text (after the link) to be cut off.

Sorry Jock, I misunderstood, I thought some photos might also be useful to you.
No, unfortunately I don't have complete drawings with keel and frames.

Could you post me the drawings you have available? Maybe top, side and front view if you have them.
Could you give me the dimensions of the lifeboats? (length, width and height).

I'm asking you both out of curiosity and because I want to evaluate whether I have the ability to do it myself.
Without obligation, if you don't like it or don't have time don't worry at all.
Liked by Peejay and hermank and
#9

Lifeboats or work boats?

I don't know what's happening on edit when I added some text it was not accepted:
I have a general idea of the shape of those boats but would prefer to have line drawings if I can find them. Dimensions I have from the original GA plans.
Liked by Peejay and hermank and
#8

Lifeboats or work boats?

Thank you very much Alessandro.
You are of course right as to the open boat type in those days. I am quite familiar with the photos of the Esso Deutschland by Auke Visser and they have been a standard reference as I progress in the built.
I have attached 3 pictures of the professional built model in 1:100 by Christel Stuehrmann in Hamburg from 1963, which was exhibited in the Maritime section of the Deutsche Museum in Munich but for the purpose of reorganizing the entire section has been removed. Sadly, as you can see, it is in a deterioated state.
You may also have a look at the web site
https://modellreederei.de/Modellbauer/Firma-Christel-Stuehrmann,-Hamburg/
with a vast selection of professional models.
While I have some general impression of hull shape for the lifeboats I was hoping to find
some line drawings of similar boats.
Liked by Peejay and hermank and
#7

Lifeboats or work boats?

Hi JockScott, I started my search but I still have little in hand.
However, in the absence of other messages I will write you something.
Anyway, in addition to telling you what I found, I will ask you some questions to better understand your needs.

First I started from the ship you are reproducing: the Esso Deutschand tanker.
I tried to enlarge all the images I found on the internet but the resolution is terrible.
I can deduce with certainty that there are only four, two for each side on the command island.

The second question I asked myself and to which I found an answer is the following: in 1960 were there already modern lifeboats closed or semi-closed, non-tilting, free-fall?

I can tell you with certainty that in 1960 there were open boats and not the closed and semi-closed ones (which are now seen on all ferries, cruise ships and commercial ships). On commercial ships you can also find free-fall lifeboats (if I'm not mistaken they are prohibited on passenger ships).
In short, I believe that the shape of these lifeboats is that of the first four photos of this message (certainly not that of the photos seen in the first link or in the fifth photo).

I came to this conclusion simply by looking at many photos of ships in books and on the internet starting from 1900 up to the 60s.
I am not yet able to establish when the modern closed or semi-closed lifeboats were first introduced (in short, the ones we can see today).
By refining my research I could arrive at a specific year. I am convinced that there was a certain period of time in which the transition from one type to another occurred.

What interests us is that in 1960 there were open boats.

With the same search criteria I was able to see that in the 60s there were also self-inflating rafts. Those white cylinders that you see on every ship (see photos no. 6 and 7).

Now let's move on to another problem:
how to make them.

At this point I have to ask you: don't you even have the profile drawing of these lifeboats?
However, with the help of the photo of the original Deutschand Esso (images 8 and 9), and with your model you should at least establish the length of these lifeboats and, perhaps, their height.

All this to try to draw them independently, but we can find a shortcut.
Find commercial models of your same scale (1:150) of lifeboats referring to ships that are quite contemporary.
For example that of the Titanic 1:150. I'll leave you the link. But it doesn't seem very refined to me.

https://www.nauticexpo.it/prod/viking/product-21603-603428.html

https://www.rocrimodellismo.com/it/scialuppe/15346-kit-montaggio-scialuppa-titanic-45x12x9-mm.html

https://www.mantuamodelshop.com/kit-scialuppa-titanic.html
Liked by Peejay and hermank
#6

Lifeboats or work boats?

Hi JockScott, My research on boats didn't go back until the 1960's.
For the following years I have to see if I have any information material (texts and images).

I'll start looking as soon as I can.

JockScott's question (posted in another topic) was this: " I am looking for my project of pictures/drawings of the typical lifeboats used on commercial ships from the 1960's. Did you come across in your research any you may remember? Any links are appreciated."

I'm sure Jock you'll get some answers. Furthermore, anyone who wants will be able to integrate the topic, ranging from the first work and rescue boats up to today.
Liked by Peejay and Mike Stoney and
#5

Lifeboats or work boats?

Thank you very much for this information MrBramMoss.
I like knowing these terms (even if I don't remember them all).
The Netherlands has an exceptional maritime tradition and history.
What a coincidence I recently mentioned one of your compatriots in relation to electric motors: Lorentz.
Liked by Mike Stoney and hermank
#4

Lifeboats or work boats?

In Dutch they are called reddingsboten and right round the corner where we live there is a company that is building the modern orange onces that are used on big ships and oil rigs.
Liked by hermank and Mike Stoney and
#2

Lifeboats or work boats?

What I will say is the result of: memories of readings done in the past (but of which I have difficulty finding all the sources), of images taken from books but above all from the internet. Of these images very few are original photos, because in the past there were no cameras.
So I relied on drawings and paintings.
The original photos concern other scale naval models but these must be considered with extreme caution, because modelers often indulge in very indulgent licenses and are not always reliable.
Finally, a small part is given by the naval model manufacturers.

The historical period must not be too much before 1800 and 1900, maximum 1940.

I summarize what I know, but I promise to look for the bibliographic sources of what I assert.
Any confirmation or denial from you will be very important to me.

So:
1. I am almost certain that the lifeboats had many different shapes, grouped into some rather homogeneous typologies.
2. The gunboat lifeboats I am loosely referring to only had lifeboats suspended on the sides. They had four of them.
There was neither the classic lifeboat suspended at the stern (typical only of ships with a straight transom and not a curved one).
These lifeboats were very thin and slender (I mean the ratio between length and width very much in favor of length).
Two of these four very slender lifeboats had a straight stern, I don't know if the other two had a curved stern like the bow.
I couldn't figure it out from the photos.
What is certain is that the lifeboats with this very slender line existed both with a straight transom and with a curved stern.
In a famous painting of the CSS Alabama you can in fact see both of these two boats.
On the Kearsarge there are lifeboats with a curved stern, perhaps all four.
3. In addition to the very slender lifeboats that we will try to name later, there are other lifeboats of different shapes. Some were faster, some more suitable for sailing with a mast that was positioned as needed.
Surely there were small boats for the captain to move from ship to ship and other larger boats to carry out work.
4. Over time the shapes and sizes have changed; in some periods the lifeboats were placed one inside the other to optimize space but at the expense of quick use.
5. Let's try to find the sources of the names:
The slender lifeboats, with a curved stern, very similar to the bow, in Italian are called "BALENIERE", precisely because they are very similar to those used for whaling.
I deduced this from various books and from the definitions in the dictionaries themselves.
Furthermore, many model houses reproduce them with this typical shape.
It is probably the lifeboat whose name associated with the shape we can be sure of (or at least have the least doubts about).
I won't go into the slavish detail of the sources, unless you ask me to, but I can point you to these very explanatory links:

The slender but straight-sterned lifeboat was not a "whaling boat" and was probably called a "LANCIA".
But at this point, before talking about other definitions, such as the "BARCACCIA", the "PILOTINA", the "IOLE" etc. I will report verbatim part of a text that I found.
""The boats of warships had multiple uses. Since the vessels of the time very rarely approached land, except to enter the dock, boats were the only means of transport available for roles such as ship-to-shore connections (for the movement of goods and people), heavy work (such as towing the ship in unfavorable winds or recovering and moving anchors), and various military uses (as landing craft or for assaulting other ships). They could transport officers to war councils aboard the flagship of a fleet, rather than disembark troops on a beach in enemy hands or conduct isolated sorties, or finally explore unknown areas. They were also used to bring aid to ships in difficulty, recover shipwrecked people, carry the wounded to the hospital ship or for the cruel punishment of the “keel turn”. Finally they could be used (but it was only a secondary use) as lifeboats.
Precisely for these numerous uses, many ships were equipped with more than one boat. Some of them, like the barcaccia, were built for heavy work such as moving and recovering anchors and transporting goods (water, gunpowder, supplies) and people.
Others, like the lancia and the pinaccia, were suitable for fast rowing in relatively calm waters. Others, such as the cutter and the iole, were built to have good nautical characteristics when sailing."

It is therefore important to realize that on board an ancient ship many types of small boats were used for various purposes. In case of need, they all served as lifeboats. Today it is very different.

From another source I found that the "barcaccia" was the ancient term to indicate the largest and most robust of the boats carried by merchant and war ships; it is used for maneuvers or work and is also simply called a boat.

The "Lancia" is smaller than the "barcaccia" and more refined, Used to communicate from ship to ship or from ship to land.
The "whaler" is longer, thinner and with a similarly shaped stern and bow (so rounded stern without the classic straight mirror). Used for commanders.
On board there were also the "pinaccia" and the "cutter".

7. One of the jobs attested by various sources is transport of the anchor to carry out the "TONNEGGIO" (I don't know how it is translated).
In case of a snag, the anchor was taken far from the ship, left in the water and then "tonneggiava", the anchor was pulled which, stranded on the seabed, could have contributed to pulling the ship away (suitably lightened as much as possible).
It could be sunk the anchor far from the ship and then put the ropes under tension even without there being a snag simply for mooring in the roadstead.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyage_of_the_James_Caird

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Caird_(lancia_baleniera).
Liked by Mike Stoney and hermank and
#1

Lifeboats or work boats?

Lifeboats or work boats?

Good evening everyone, I open this new topic by writing something about small boats on board ships.
Today we take it for granted that on every ship (of any type) there must be a suitable number of lifeboats, that is, small boats intended to save people on board the ship once it can no longer float for any reason.

But has it always been like this?

In order not to make a too broad discussion I will refer to the schooner that I am building, as I am building the lifeboats (let's call them that for the moment).


After I have written what I know or remember I hope that others will contribute their information and knowledge.
I would especially like to know the terms of these boats in other languages, in English, German, Spanish, Dutch...
Liked by Mike Stoney and hermank and

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