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    Hopper Barge
    7 Posts ยท 6 Followers ยท 15 Photos ยท 41 Likes
    Began 4 months ago by
    Lieutenant
    United Kingdom
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    Latest Post 3 months ago by
    Lieutenant
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    Most recent posts shown first   (Show Oldest First) (Print Booklet)
    ๐Ÿ“ That didn't end well
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง SimpleSailor ( Lieutenant)
    โœง 38 Views ยท 5 Likes ยท 4 Comments
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Add Comment
    Here I was just testing the motor and ESC (Brushed) on the bench. All was going well, until I switched the ESC off. Then, poof it went, a cloud of white smoke coming from it and a spray of hot solder. See picture. Now the house stinks of burnt electronics (Wife not impressed). It was an Mtroniks Viper Marine 40A ESC which I have had for a number of years and has never been stressed. I don't think it ever had more than 8 Amps through it. It was also a replacement, as the first one blew up. I have never bought another. They are now ยฃ53 so it was not going to be replaced. Luckily the slow blow 10 Amp inline fuse blew otherwise I might have had a bigger problem. This was going in the Kort Nozzle test rig. So back to the drawing board. ๐Ÿ˜ Before anyone asks. Yes it was running within spec. IE.. correct input voltage etc.....๐Ÿ˜

    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: That didn't end well
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Chum444 ( Captain)
    โœง 23 Views ยท 1 Like
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    Hey SS. Any progress getting operational? I mentioned you were building an ATB but what youโ€™re building, as you previously mentioned, is a powered barge.

    This will be a very interesting build, especially when you are kindly testing two different Kort configurations.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: That didn't end well
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Chum444 ( Captain)
    โœง 31 Views ยท 3 Likes
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    Too bad. Not altogether surprising given that
    there are at least four or five lengthy threads about problems with Mtroniks escs in a U.S. forum. Most issues related to failures when they are used with twin motors. I myself had failure problems using their escs in a twin motor application. Mtroniks replaced about four escโ€™s that failed. Working directly with tech support we were unable to resolve the problem; finally gave up even after optically isolating them.

    Small consolation but you are not aloneโ€ฆโ€ฆ by a long shot.
    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: That didn't end well
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง SouthportPat ( Commodore)
    โœง 33 Views ยท 2 Likes
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    I have always found Mtronics to be good at replacing defective units - give them a try - they are too expensive to just write it off
    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: That didn't end well
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น AlessandroSPQR ( Fleet Admiral)
    โœง 33 Views ยท 3 Likes
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    Hi Simple Sailor, you meant (brushed) not (brushless), right?
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    ๐Ÿ“ Caught by the Kort
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง SimpleSailor ( Lieutenant)
    โœง 46 Views ยท 7 Likes ยท 5 Comments
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    Well after Chum444 suggestion I thought I would venture into Kort type nozzles. Little did I know I would be getting into such an interesting subject. So I have learned that it is not just "stick a pipe over the propeller and that will do" As always I try not to buy parts when I can use CAD and 3D. So now I have got into hydrodynamics, or at least bit of an understanding. I am used to looking at NACA (National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics) aerofoil sections as I have been designing a 3D printed sail wing. I hadn't realised they use NACA sections in Kort design (Makes sense I suppose). The pictures show where I am at. (1) is my own idea before I found out about NACA. (2) is NACA 4421 profile from a professional design, but I got the cord alignment wrong. (3) is the same with the cord aligned in the correct manner. (4) Is what I think will be the best as it is based on the diagram in picture HE-Kort (3rd from left). All will be tested.

    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Caught by the Kort
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Chum444 ( Captain)
    โœง 31 Views ยท 1 Like
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    SS; I just saw this post.Way cool idea! After you get by the esc failure your results will be very interesting. ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Caught by the Kort
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง SimpleSailor ( Lieutenant)
    โœง 36 Views ยท 3 Likes
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    Hi Chum444. Are you a mind reader ?๐Ÿ˜. I am just designing a test rig where I can measure in Kg the thrust produced. I will use the same prop in all cases and start with a none Kort as the reference. The picture is just the start. I will post the finished rig when done and eventually the results.
    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Caught by the Kort
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Chum444 ( Captain)
    โœง 38 Views ยท 6 Likes
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    Good afternoon SS. Interested in an experiment? Since you are versed in 3D printing, you could create two Korts; one with an airfoil internal diameter, the second with a constant (straight) diameter. Try them both on your ATB to see if you notice a difference in maneuverability. All of this if set up on the printer is not too onerous.

    Interestingly I read that the Korts were originally used to reduce erosion of the banks & bottom of European canals. In addition, their main value in 1:1 vessels is to increase thrust per shaft horsepower. I had thought they were employed to improve maneuverability. Shows what I know!
    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Caught by the Kort
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น AlessandroSPQR ( Fleet Admiral)
    โœง 44 Views ยท 4 Likes
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    Hi Simple Sailor, your study and practical application of Kort nozzles is truly interesting and commendable.

    By the way, a quick aside: did you know that even though it bears the name Kort, it was developed in 1930 by the Italian aeronautical engineer Luigi Stipa and perfected by the German naval architect Ludwig Kort?

    You're doing great things with the 3D printer. I believe you're the most advanced and skilled among us in this field.
    You don't just make small parts, but entire boatsโ€”well done.
    To the question I asked in another thread about tools, you'd answer: just a 3D printer, hahaha.
    You don't need anything else. You also need a PC, of course.
    I'll be following further developments on Kort nozzles with interest.
    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Caught by the Kort
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Chum444 ( Captain)
    โœง 46 Views ยท 3 Likes
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    SS, you are really into the concept! Iโ€™m certain you will love the Kort. However, you will need to change your user name from SS. How about Hydro D Sailor?
    ๐Ÿ“ Next challenge.
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง SimpleSailor ( Lieutenant)
    โœง 51 Views ยท 7 Likes ยท 2 Comments
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Add Comment
    Having been successful with my 3D printed hull concept I have decided to make the the next project a self propelled Hopper Barge. I have just started the design work which is loosely based on the attached pictures. It works out at about 1/54 scale which is a bit odd but suites my printer. Although the pictured barge uses a 360ยฐ Schottle drive and bow thruster I will be going with a conventional inline 480 brushed motor.

    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Next challenge.
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง SimpleSailor ( Lieutenant)
    โœง 49 Views ยท 4 Likes
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    Hi Chum444. Yes I have and I might well make that an option. I am just messing with the rudder design at the moment and have opted for a symmetrical aerofoil section with upper and lower plates. It is supposed to be very manoeuvrable and lessen cavitation. Not that cavitation would really be a problem on a thing this size.๐Ÿ˜
    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Next challenge.
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Chum444 ( Captain)
    โœง 49 Views ยท 2 Likes
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    Nice project. Have you considered a single steerable Kort nozzle? The difference in maneuverability over an open screw will please you.
    ๐Ÿ“ New blog
    4 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง SimpleSailor ( Lieutenant)
    โœง 56 Views ยท 2 Likes
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Add Comment
    Having not done a build blog before I didn't realise I could have just updated this blog. However I ended up creating a new blog "Update to Hybrid Hull" so this continues there..๐Ÿค”

    ๐Ÿ“ Hull ideas
    4 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง SimpleSailor ( Lieutenant)
    โœง 60 Views ยท 3 Likes
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    While looking into hull design to reduce print time I have come up with another idea. So Fig 1. is the original idea where the ply/balsa was sandwiched between the hull walls and Fig 2. has the ply/balsa as cladding on the outside of the hull. They both take about the same amount of time to print: 2.5 hours per 50mm height. This is better than the solid plastic hull at 7.25 Hours per 50mm. It is just a case of which one would be nicer to work with.

    ๐Ÿ“ New idea for printing
    4 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง SimpleSailor ( Lieutenant)
    โœง 65 Views ยท 5 Likes ยท 2 Comments
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    Having just put the barge design into the slicer and looked at the printing times which were very long (30 odd hours) I had a thought ๐Ÿ˜€. Why not print the hull in Spiralised Vase Mode. This gives one wall (0.8mm thick) on the inner and outer. It has no change of level steps as it prints a continues line and gives a very smooth surface. So the experiment goes on. The infill is only suitable for the long lengths of the hull. The stern and bow will still be normal plastic prints with infill. The infill can be 3mm ply or Balsa. Maybe ply as it will give it some weight. The hull will of course be sealed and painted.


    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: New idea for printing
    4 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง SimpleSailor ( Lieutenant)
    โœง 64 Views ยท 1 Like
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    Hi Boatshed. It is a difficult thing to quantify without putting a Watt meter in circuit with the printer. However my printer has a 300 Watt power supply. That does not mean it uses 300 Watts, it is what is available. The heated bed and the hot nozzle are controlled by a PWM (Pulse Width Modulated) signal so are not on all the time. The average power used would have to be taken. I might actually measure the AC current one day and work it out. As an estimate, if you were paying ยฃ0.26 per KWH (per 1000 watt hour) and the printer used an average of 200 Watts it would cost ยฃ0.052 per hour, so 30 hours of print time would be ยฃ1.56. For me it is about the time hanging around waiting for it to print. The cost does not bother me. I try and design my items to be robust but print fast.
    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: New idea for printing
    4 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง BOATSHED ( Commander)
    โœง 64 Views ยท 1 Like
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    Ian confused with the 3d printing, you say 30 odd hours??
    What does that add to your electric bill ??
    ๐Ÿ“ Hopper Barge
    4 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง SimpleSailor ( Lieutenant)
    โœง 91 Views ยท 12 Likes ยท 3 Comments
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    A friend of mine has asked me to make him a Hopper type barge to tow behind his tug. He already has a scratch built shoe box, but it does not tow well and doesn't look the part. I will be 3D printing it and I have designed it in FreeCAD. Attached is my first attempt. I should mention that it has to fit in his transport box. It is, length-542 x beam-150 x depth-120 mm. The sections are glued together and use the 1.75mm filament as location pins. The bow section can be used as a stern.

    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Hopper Barge
    4 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง PeterJ ( Chief Petty Officer 1st Class)
    โœง 69 Views ยท 2 Likes
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    Looks good can you make these for sale ?
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Hopper Barge
    4 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡บ B rian J ames ( Petty Officer 2nd Class)
    โœง 82 Views ยท 3 Likes
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    Keep it 'Simple Sailor'?, Have U tried skeg(s), aft, & or a 'yoke & or bridle' forward? 'B J', 'B'ad Dad 'J'oke???). ๐Ÿค” ( No 'Yoke' intended, let alone a pun. I'm normally very 'punny'? ๐Ÿคฃ All the best.
    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Hopper Barge
    4 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น AlessandroSPQR ( Fleet Admiral)
    โœง 84 Views ยท 4 Likes
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    Bravo SimpleSailor, well done.
    I am very interested in the program you mentioned FreeCad, but I do not know it.
    I assume it is free, according to its name.
    How do you like FreeCad?
    Can you make hulls with more curved lines?


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