🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗

I was talking recently about the imbalance of kits of sailing craft against kits of power craft and the availability of Ready to Run yachts. This was exemplified to me when I had the pleasure of sailing with the Barry Model Boat Club recently and was delighted to see that there were at least a dozen sails on the lake, but apart from my 'Bella' they were all DF65s, 95s and similar Ready to Run yachts. The power craft came later. Nothing against the R to Rs , pleased that people enjoy sailing enough to want one, but it would be nice to see more general sailing boats on our lakes.

Cheers, Nerys

Looking forward to seeing her progress.

I know we have moved off subject a little but it makes for a good discussion!

Can't believe I produced these drawings 4 years ago as they were going to be one of my next Fairey builds. Though I have produced drawings for another Fairey since then.

Anyway, not a full on yacht but it has sails! It's a Fairey Fisherman 27 motor sailer. just need to make more progress on my existing builds then I'll make a start on building it.

Chris

So right Nerys, here's mine which I have had since Xmas 1954, and still let my granddaughter use in her paddling pool.
Cheers Colin

I am not saying that the only way to build sailing craft is with a kit, my contention is that if there were more kits of such craft, more would be built and make died in the wool, stick and string sailors like me happy to see more sails on the lakes. In fact, I spent a very happy afternoon this week, sailing the second model I ever built from a kit, An Aeronaut 'Bella'. a lovely sailer . I quite agree, scratch building whether literally from scratch or from a moulded hull are fine. Whether it is cheaper than a kit, I'm not sure, but I can think of one kitmaker who charges a 'handling' or 'administration' charge of, if I remember correctly, £30 on an already very expensive kit, in addition to carriage. Enough said.
I consider myself to be a model Thames Barge builder and have used moulded hulls as well as building from scratch. Unfortunately the source of the moulded hulls appears to have dried up with the retirement of 'Mastman'.So, it's scratchbuilding for me from now on. I do not use plans either, I work as the real barge builders of old did, and knowing barges as well as I do, I build by eye, if it looks right, it must be.And I've yet to have a failure.
I digress, our hobby has come about from the great Victorian tradition of the pond yacht. Marbleheads and One Metres spring to mind but such aristocrats were nothing compared to the simple model carved from a solid block that every boy received for Christmas. I don't doubt some of our members still possess theirs, or one they've bought since. This is what I'd like to see, loads of very simple model yachts swarming on our lakes. Whether built from kits or not, who cares.

Footnote; yes Ron, a scrollsaw is a great tool to have.

Cheers, Nerys

Ron - Lime/Linden/Basswood dependent on where sourced, so a useful timber.

Chris

A few of my scratchbuilt models, all at 1:48 scale. You can't get kits for two of them. I even draw my own plans.

I have both and a thickness planner just never considered that source of building material. What is the typical wood used in making blinds?

Using blinds has been going on for sometime as a cheap supply of quality timber but unless you already have a band or table saw it is not cheap!

Chris

I have a friend who did just that. An ex builder now approaching 90 who repurposed many common household items in his builds.

I agree, boat kits are expensive and being on a fixed income in retirement means one must stay within your budget.

I read on this site of someone using wooden blinds to plank their boat? There us an idea, better check out the second hand shops .

I've only been making model boats for 18 months but can recommend

http://www.bearospaceindustries.com/boats2.html

The Emma design is a great boat and the designer, Gary, does some YouTube videos that are really helpful

On a different note - the lake at Lytham is quite sheltered. If you want a more exposed and windier spot - head along the coast to Fleetwood.

https://fleetwoodmypbc.org.uk/

Hellou "Redpopman"!
Good tip if we come to your beautiful island in 2023. .
with left-hand traffic. . . that will be found!
I also got smart in Google Maps, let's see what we will find here! How are the winds there? sailing ok?
Hobbyist greetings from Switzerland,
Michel Claude

Lytham St Annes have a great club at Fairhaven Lake, well worth a visit

have you never thought of going to Fairhaven Lake in Lytham St Annes, look it up on Google map its brilliant, ample parking (free on the main road)

All of my boats are scratchbuilt, scale, standoff models. They look ok, but it's in the eye of the beholder.
This is all I can afford as I'm a pensioner. Kits are beyond my budget.

I agree Chris,
I don't believe scratch building is cheaper.
Scratch building gives more flexibility and can provide a greater sense of accomplishment.
But there are many fine kits out there that provide great detail and a great finished product.
And they can always be tweaked.
Just my humble opinion😌
Trev

I would tend to disagree with johnf in his remarks about 'far from perfect kits' as, anyone who has built a Model Slipway kit would confirm that they WERE excellent kits with highly accurate parts, etc., and his GRP hulls were second to none. Unfortunately it went the way of many others when the owner discontinued them when he retired. Models By Design also produced some excellent hull/wheelhouse mouldings but the story of their demise is entirely different.
Derek.

Yes, it may be thought that scratch building would be cheaper but in reality I don't think it is. I hate to think how much it has cost me over the 4 years in materials and tools etc. to build my 5 Faireys! Part of the reason being that I order more ply and mahogany strip than I need for a particular build.

Another vote for the scroll saw here which has had lots of use. My most used bigger power tool. If I had to cut long straight pieces I'd get a band saw as well but so far have managed without.

I agree, Ron
The Scroll Saw works for me.
Trev

Try a scroll-saw instead of a bandsaw which was bought used. l use mine all the time for cutting curved and straight cuts. Variable speed and if you take a scrap piece of 3/8 ply, and keep it close by, it is good for cutting those small parts that might otherwise fall through the kerf slot of the saw’s table top.

I agree. I built a Aerokits crash tender in my 20's and refurbished it during lock down. This has solid ply bottom and sides so wasn't too difficult to build. For my 70th my wife bought me a Riva Aquarama kit with double planked hull. Without this experience of building this I certainly wouldn't have attempted to build a scratch built craft. Also I would had to invest in a band saw to cut out the frames etc! They are not cheap either. 😀

I'm probably an exception as I started in the hobby about 4 years ago and launched (pun intended) straight into producing my own drawings and scratch building.

I did have the benefit of coming from an architectural background which helped with the drawing and getting my head around model construction.

But many beginners are advised, with good reason, to begin with a fairly simple kit and then maybe move onto scratch building if they wish and have built up their skills sufficiently. Scratch building from the off for many would be too much and they would give up and probably leave the hobby.

Gentlemen,

Without wishing to be too controversial, I must ask why this apparent concession with kits?

While acknowledging that building from a kit is often the easiest and quickest way to start in our hobby, it should be exactly that - a start.

Building from a GF or vac-formed hull, from published plans or even from scratch for both scale and freelance models should be most of our aims.

The results are without doubt better and more accurate models at far lower cost than with the simple assembly of far from perfect kits. What is more the extra satisfaction is absolutely undeniable.

That said, each to his own. It is still a wonderful hobby!

Dr John F. North Yorkshire 😀😀

You could be right Nerys, but it's difficult to know.

If you think about it there are relatively few new power boat kits available now either. Only ones that spring to mind are the Fairey ones from SLEC and they are based on timber boats from the 60s.

Trouble is there are fewer model boat designers around nowadays and also recent boats and yachts are generally fibreglass and their sometimes curvy and complicated designs are difficult to build in timber and not viable for production from moulds.

Also, a lot of model power boats are quite simple and can be built relatively cheaply.

Chris

Going back to the correspondence on the shortage of sailing craft at the show I am wondering if this is due to the lack of kits of sailing craft on general sale. Having had a quick look through, I can only find four kits, all from the Aeronaut stable and the availability of these is questionable. Surely if there was more choice, more would be built. As far as I can see, the desire to sail is there, hence the number of ready to run yachts available. Yes there are a few part kits, such as Sarik's Thames Barge Veronica, but these can be considered specialised.
So, what is it, more kits equals more sailing craft?

Cheers, Nerys

Thanks for the link, she is beautiful!!
The Bunker & Ellis were originally built as work boats.
They are so sought after now they are being restored as yachts.
Mine is just a single screw, I may just use the original power train that was supplied by Midwest. some are still available on eBay. Nothing fancy, just propulsion.
First, I have to finish the Seguin.
Trev

Yes, her lines are terrific. Be sure to do some research, some of these full sizes were twin screw, which, I would consider doing if doing the kit.
https://ellisboat.com/bunker-and-ellis-downeast-boatbuilders/

Bunker & Ellis built many types of these, such as this one seen here.
https://www.ladyben.com/power-classic-wooden-boat/67782-36ft-bunker-ellis-downeast-lobster-yacht-vera-lee-$340000/view-details

Hi Ron,
I just recently purchased the Maine Lobster boat by Midwest on ebay.
I do like her lines.
Trev

The BoatShow subject heading is getting many different messages. Guess we like to chat 😃

I have never purchase a Ready to Run kit only bought a couple boats from a good builder so my grandsons could easily guide a rc boat which handled well, a Jolly Jay the Dumas kit.

The other, is the Midwest out of production kit, lobster yacht. He knew I admired the style of luxury lobster yacht design and even though he had built it twenty years before the boat runs well. I researched and added more cabin details and figures, plus a dingy.

I did make a plastic kit as seen here too which was converted to a rc version but the same friend gave the kit to me as a gift.

I tried to get my grandson interested in building a simple boat but along with his Dad he prefers to have one ready to go on the water. He doesn't seem to understand that a lot of the pleasure is building it and then seeing it sail! It seems to be part of our 'get it and then throw it away' society that we have today! When I was a teenager if you wanted something R/C you had to build it because there was no other option really! Like someone else mentioned postage of some building materials are prohibitive basically because you can't go to a local shop and buy what you need.

I only got into the hobby 4 years ago and the forums were still quite active then, but it has been noticeable in the last year (there was a spike in interest during Covid lockdown) how quiet they have become with few builds going on - this forum looks to be bucking the trend though to some extent.

Trouble is there aren't enough new members and builders replacing those leaving the hobby for the obvious reasons and as said the diminishing shops and increasing costs aren't helping with the latter going to become more unaffordable once fuel and food prices really kick in.

I've got a number of RTR yachts and power boats to get me on the water and race whilst I'm doing my scratch builds which are my real interest. I think many of us are interested in anything RC even if we aren't building anything other than boats, I'm building a Tamiya Unimog.

Chris

Totally agree with you Dave, last month bought an airboat that I liked, then at the boat show, bought a Hovercraft from Palaform, now just waiting for the snow and ice to fill our boating lake.

Cheers, Pete

Hi Nerys no problem I understand your concerns and my club is also suffering from lack of water depth. Not seen it this low before and as it's ground water (it's an old sand pit used when the were building the M6) it can take time to refill. Added to that there is a new sand quarry operating not too far away and maybe this is where the ground water is going at present. You could try an air boat which is good when weed or ice prevents normal sailing. Cheers Dave

Unfortunately there are no longer very many model shops where you can go in and browse for kits, bits and fittings. The majority that are still in existence seem to concentrate on model trains and therefore I have to search on the Internet for bits etc. Then often the postage is dearer than the bit you want! For example I wanted some 1x1mm lime wood strip which cost £3.24 for 10 but because of post office size restrictions it would have to be sent by carrier which was more than £9.00!! This does not help to promote our hobby!

Hi Shipmates ,
I agree, the personal value of a model is proportional to time and effort you put in to building it and getting it running.

I have built from scratch and I have brought RTR.
I am afraid it is a buy now, think later, society and hand / eye skills are fast disappearing.

Kids want / given iPads , smartphones keep them quiet, parents don't have to spend time with them. kids think they are clever tapping screens and being spied on by big brother.

But the truth is, they are being limited in the skills and interests they need to develop, when they are young which will last the rest of their lives.

Regards old git - Roy

An associated issue related to the level of interest, is the skills required for scratch building, or even from some kits.

There has been a recent growth in “ready to use” products.

There is a pleasure in building something yourself, even if it’s not perfect, and seeing it working. I wonder if many are missing out on this, through the purchase of completed models and are the required skills therefore being lost?

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression, Dave. The lorries etc don't worry me at all, I'm only too pleased to see members coming along and taking part in our hobby, whatever the branch. I know several of the lorry members also own boats, but they don't seem to bring them out very often these days. I'm a bit limited myself at the moment, water is a bit low and I can't use any of my sailing craft, so I'm stuck with motor boats. Never know, it might drive me to buy a Land Rover or something Cheers, Nerys..

All quite true Lew. While model boating in the Northeast was never to most popular hobby, it has certainly seen a significant die off over the years. I attribute a substantial amount of the loss of interest in the tme and expense involved.

Hi Ron
That would explain the 12M. It's a nice looking model and very close in all respects to my Pond Yacht, and I expect she sails as well as she looks.
dave

Hi Lew
Nice display of models. We have as a club exhibited at our local Militaire Show in Crewe UK and they allow all forms of modelling including indoor flying in a netted enclosure. We have not attended for the last couple of years mainly due to age and health issues but hopefully we will attend in the future. I agree fuel prices will impact on attendance for both traders and modellers and we can only hope that market forces will act to resolve the issues whatever those in charge seek to impose.
It is so good to hear that two clubs combined to put on a show that I can see would have a wide appeal to the public in general as well as the avid modellers.
Thanks for sharing.
In view of the recent "weather" in your part of the world I was impressed you only miss the occasional meets during the winter!
dave 976

Thoughts about scale model boat shows on popularity in general...

I agree, here in the U.S. scale RC boat modeling has thinned out some, but it never was that popular compared to some of the other RC model hobbies, RC planes, RC cars (mostly off road), and in the past few years RC tanks. The last local IPMS show that I went to (over three years ago) over half of the contest/entry tables were empty. Many classifications had no entries, some maybe one or two. (video link: .)

Thanks to the local club were able to get three long tables and fill them up with Operating scale model boats and tanks from our two clubs. We had to build "shelves" out of empty boxes to lift the rear models up as the tables were densely populated. I think we stole the show. The operating models are so much larger than the contest entries (i.e. 1/16 scale operating tanks vs. 1/35 or 1/72 static tanks).

Even though our models operate many are very well detailed. The IPMS has a rule about NO moving models so we were not able to enter any of what we built. I don't understand this rule!

The last true model show I have been to was well over forty years ago.

I can understand that "up north" operational scale model boats don't run all year long. here in Florida we operate all year long with maybe missing two or three bi-weekly meets during the winter and a few more at other times due to weather. With great weather and many lakes there are only a handful of clubs spread around the state. I was a member of the national North American Model Boat Association, but they are not very active at all in helping the hobby.

To make matters worse, the economy has likely caused a downturn in members showing up at meets mostly due to fuel prices.

Lew

Dave,
My boat is also known as a The US12 class is a beautiful full keel, spoon bow yacht of the old America’s Cup 12 meter design. She is 46 inches in length with a 16 pound minimum weight, carries a rig of 714 sq. inches of sail area,

Hi Ron
Yes that was the M to which I was referring. I attach a pic of a J class hull FYI. It's possible this is just a schooner or converted pond yacht. I also attach a pic of my pond yacht.
dave976

At least you all across the Pond have models shows. On this side they are bgoing the way of the Local Hobby Shop., almost extinct. I have noticed more cars are creeping in when a show does take place, especially over boats. I think there are two reasons for that. first, the number of ready to run wheeled models compared to boats is huge. The other reason is more a financial one. it is easy and safe to set up a track for wheeled models, but having a pond available or setting up a pool takes lot's of $ and is more risky. The thought of a pool springing a leak scares organizers to no end. Tat and having to fund the purchase and transport of, say, 10,000 gallons of H2O is not going to happen. THEN, what to do worth the H2O after the show.
While none of these issues is insurmountable, in today's environment, organizers just say NO.
☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️

I find that going to shows featuring any kind of modelling talent I enjoy.
Went to the Birmingham Model Engineers Show at Warwick last week, beautiful workmanship on locomotives and various steam engines, but there was also many stands with boats, plenty of variation.
What I want from a show is Traders, so I can buy what I require without having to pay postage.

Cheers, Pete

Dave it reads M12 on the main

Hi Nerys
Sign of the times and if it keeps model clubs viable I believe we should encourage all form of modelling. Many clubs have linked up with full size sailing clubs and live steam train societies where there is a lake facility.
My own son was into boats, trains and model cars so I do believe it is helpful to have more than one particular interest.
New Brighton used to have R/c cars on the adjacent space by the original pond.
I am sorry to hear that you are disturbed by their presence and would hope they show a bit more regard in the future.
Do the club have dedicated days and times for different sections?
dave976

Hi Ron
I believe it is a Marblehead - the clue is in the M on the top of the mainsail
dave976