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    Mantua Bruma - with possible conversion to sail
    20 Posts ยท 11 Followers ยท 34 Photos ยท 164 Likes
    Began 2 years ago by
    Lieutenant Commander
    United Kingdom
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    Latest Post 3 months ago by
    Lieutenant Commander
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    ๐Ÿ“ Reply to Roy
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง DuncanP ( Lieutenant Commander)
    โœง 35 Views ยท 2 Likes ยท 1 Comment
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    Hi Roy, You actually sent me a link to the detailed instructions and yes it says do the deck planking at this early stage. I've given the inside of the hull a coat of epoxy resin and where the planks would not be assessible I coated them with waterproof glue (Aliphatic) before attaching them to the hull. So hopefully it will be Ok!
    I'm also waiting for a cataract operation but it is more complicated because I had a corneal graft when I was about 40. It now has no cells remaining so I will have to have another corneal graft and cataract operation at the same time. Ugh!
    Enjoy the rest of your holiday in Australia and have a good trip back. I hope you decide to start the Bruma soon ! ๐Ÿ˜ŠCheers

    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Reply to Roy
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง roycv ( Vice Admiral)
    โœง 24 Views ยท 2 Likes
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    I claim senility and memory complications!!!
    I do hope the operation goes well as eyes are so precious.

    Glad I sent the link though, I live in the present and look forward to the future. The past can often have holes in it.
    Best
    Roy
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    ๐Ÿ“ Painting the hull and advise on NOT following the instructions!
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง DuncanP ( Lieutenant Commander)
    โœง 35 Views ยท 6 Likes ยท 4 Comments
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    Finally we had some warmer weather today so hopefully it didn't cost too much to heat up the back of the garage! I've painted the hull with epoxy resin, then applied an under coat and several coats of paint. I found that the matt paint showed up some blemishes so I have filled them again. Unfortunately the colour of the filler is showing through very slightly, so I will have to apply yet another coat of Humbrol Matt white!

    I followed the build instructions to the letter but I personally don't think it is a good idea to plank the deck at such an early stage. This is because of the difficulty in applying the masking tape on the planked deck especially through the 2mm slots at the top of the hull planking (gunnel). Given my time again, I would leave the deck planking until after the hull has been painted. My only thought is the sheet of decking is very thin and whether the kit creators thought that the planking was required at the beginning of the build to give the structure more rigidity - who knows!
    Hopefully we will get another mild day so that I can apply another coat of matt white.

    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Painting the hull and advise on NOT following the instructions!
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง roycv ( Vice Admiral)
    โœง 25 Views ยท 2 Likes
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    Hi, re-reading this thread I note a remark about not having double planking on real ships. Well ships implies large vessels. But the wooden hulls of motor gun/ torpedo boats were first planked and then canvas was applied and then a second planking. Usually double diagonal planking.
    It made a sturdy covering and survived the heavy vibrations of multiple high powered engines.
    Roy
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Painting the hull and advise on NOT following the instructions!
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง roycv ( Vice Admiral)
    โœง 25 Views ยท 2 Likes
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    Hi Duncan re your Bruma build, I too queried planking the deck first, and I am not sure what to do. I did find more complete set of building instructions on-line about 14 pages if I remember correctly.

    I think they also suggest the deck be planked first. I would tend to agree with your thoughts and get the access spaces sorted out first and then plank.
    By the way if you have to have a flush hatch with the deck try and make the hatch edges line up with the plank edges as this takes your eye off them.

    I have had a stop in my boat building for 5 months as I had 2 cataract operations which made previous glasses redundant. So when both eyes were done I had an eye test and now I only need single lens reading glasses.
    As I had varifocal glasses before there is no distortion of vision now so I can rely on what I see.
    Distant vision is excellent and OK for driving. Then my trip to Australia came up which is where I am now.
    I am raring to go when I get back in early March but need to finish my Wild Duck yacht first. Then either Bruma or Trotamares or my Aeronaut Victoria.

    Best
    Roy
    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Painting the hull and advise on NOT following the instructions!
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง roycv ( Vice Admiral)
    โœง 25 Views ยท 3 Likes
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    Hi Duncan, You cannot judge where the imperfections lie after planking until the hull is one uniform colour.
    I first get a thinned keying of paint or varnish on the hull and then go to any colour for the first coat. I use up the small amounts of paint left over for this.
    Wet and dry rubbing down and with different left over colours as the rubbing down progresses. This gives you an idea of how far you have rubbed down the paint as various different colours emerge.

    I have yet to use epoxy or glass cloth on the hulls as for me it is overkill as far as strength goes. I have several hulls that are 30 odd years old and with the 10 or so layers of paint before puttting on the final ones have stood the test of time.
    But you must waterproof the inside so that the wood does not absorb moistureon the inside.

    regards
    Roy
    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Painting the hull and advise on NOT following the instructions!
    3 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น AlessandroSPQR ( Admiral)
    โœง 28 Views ยท 2 Likes
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    I'm glad you're back to working on your model, Duncan.
    ๐Ÿ“ 1st coat of primer applied
    8 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง DuncanP ( Lieutenant Commander)
    โœง 63 Views ยท 7 Likes ยท 2 Comments
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Add Comment
    Finally managed to complete the double layer of planking in limewood on the Mantua Bruma which is a plank on frame hull. I then did some filling and sanding before applying two coats of sanding sealer. Having 'chewed over' all of discussions about fibre glassing the hull I 'chickened out' and instead just applied a coat of Z-epoxy 2 part finishing resin. Another sand down with 120 grade paper (as advised on the bottles) before applying a Rustins primer & undercoat. This has now shown up some imperfections so I plan to remove these with Holts Knifing putty which is designed to fill small scratches and paint chips. I need to fit the bulwarks but I'm not sure about how to cut a 2mm 'slot' along the limewood planks. The slot is from around 6" from the bow to about 6" from the stern. I've tried a steal ruler and modelling knife but it still seems to follow along the grain of the wood on these 6mm wide limewood strips. Any suggestions gratefully received.

    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 1st coat of primer applied
    8 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น AlessandroSPQR ( Admiral)
    โœง 47 Views ยท 4 Likes
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    Hi Duncan, I cut the hull with a simple cutter.
    They recommended electric cutters to do it but I didn't trust them, the work was too delicate.
    To follow the line you want and not the grain you can use a steel ruler, or a mark (pencil, marker, tape, etc. etc.) the important thing is that the first grooves are light, then gradually you can sink and push more because the blade will not take other paths.

    "Having 'chewed over' all of discussions about fiber glassing the hull I 'chickened out' and instead just applied a coat of Z-epoxy 2 part finishing resin."
    Excellent decision.
    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 1st coat of primer applied
    8 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆ RossM ( Commander)
    โœง 55 Views ยท 5 Likes
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    CUTTING THROUGH LIMEWOOD

    When I was cutting through 3mm pine stock, I found a box cutter had a better grip for control. I would score it 3 to 5 times cutting in about .75mm per stroke
    ๐Ÿ“ 1st layer completed at last
    11 months ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง DuncanP ( Lieutenant Commander)
    โœง 86 Views ยท 9 Likes
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Add Comment
    Finally got some time to work on my model after working on other jobs that needed doing around the home and also a holiday down the Rhine river on a cruise. Weather was good today which enabled me to do the sanding outside and save the mess of dust everywhere in doors! Hopefully the hull is now smooth enough for the second layer of planking. Fingers crossed not too many more interruptions to the build program ! I used for the first time sanding sponges which seemed to work very well. I also did the sanding in a large box lid which kept most of the sanding residue in one place. Unfortunately when I first started sanding I forgot to put the yellow foam supports under the hull and as a consequence it has snapped the plastic tube which will carry the mainsheet off at deck level. It was originally designed to go through the cabin deck which also had the secondary purpose of holding the removable cabin in place. Hey Ho - one step forward and two back!!๐Ÿ˜

    ๐Ÿ“ 1st layer nearing completion
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง DuncanP ( Lieutenant Commander)
    โœง 108 Views ยท 11 Likes ยท 5 Comments
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    Nearly there with the 1st layer of planking. Been a bit of a challenge especially around the stern. Once the remaining planks have been added I will shape bow and stern, fill between planks and then sand back before starting the second layer. Having planked from the deck towards the waterline I decided to because of the hull curvature the best way to complete the the planking was to then start from the keel and work towards the completed side planking. It seems to have worked out as a good method. Hope this might help future builders of this model. ๐Ÿ˜Š

    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 1st layer nearing completion
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น AlessandroSPQR ( Admiral)
    โœง 83 Views ยท 4 Likes
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    Hi Duncan I understand you. It's annoying to interrupt work.
    I don't have grandchildren, but many other reasons prevent me from continuing the model quickly.
    Tonight, if I can, I'll paint the cannons.

    There is another peculiarity in your work.
    You've built the planking around the propeller shafts. I, however, prefer to complete the planking and then drill it.
    The differences in model building techniques are always fascinating and I really enjoy looking at other methods.
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 1st layer nearing completion
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น AlessandroSPQR ( Admiral)
    โœง 83 Views ยท 4 Likes
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    Hi Len, very interesting observation.
    I would very much like to discuss this topic with you and the other modelers but if the discussion gets too long, as it is likely to happen, we could disturb Duncan's work.
    For this reason I prefer to open a separate topic and in this topic continue to comment on the work of Duncan's Bruma.
    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 1st layer nearing completion
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ Len1 ( Lieutenant Commander)
    โœง 84 Views ยท 3 Likes
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    Just a thought on double planking on real ships is that it adds so much weight to the vessel and that could reduce its load carrying capability and therefore revenue. Maybe double planking on warships would make sense.
    This just conjecture on my part and not based on any facts.
    Len
    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 1st layer nearing completion
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง DuncanP ( Lieutenant Commander)
    โœง 100 Views ยท 6 Likes
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    Hi Alessandro, Building has come to a halt whilst the grand children are staying with us. Two reasons. 1) I have had to remove everything from their bedroom/modelling room and 2) they keep me that busy I have no time!!
    The only progress is the 1st layer of planking is complete. Next stage is filling and sanding. I want to do the sanding outside to avoid dust in the house so that will also be weather dependant! Will update the build blog before the second layer starts.๐Ÿ˜Š
    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: 1st layer nearing completion
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น AlessandroSPQR ( Admiral)
    โœง 90 Views ยท 3 Likes
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    Hi Duncan, I haven't seen any posts on this forum for a while.

    I'm glad you've almost finished the first planking and your method is very interesting.
    Even though I have always started from the top down to the keel, I think yours could be excellent, I will take it into consideration for next time.




    P.S.
    No, I've never heard of "double planking" for real ships.
    Maybe it will even have been done on some real boats. Why not. I ignore it.
    I am sure that for all (and I mean all) the scale models I have seen to date, in person or on the internet, made with double planking, no real ship (and I mean none) had double planking.

    In other words:
    modeling = double planking is always or almost always used even when real models do not require it.
    real ships = always or almost always single planking.
    This is why I can say that double planking is above all a modeling technique.
    ๐Ÿ“ Pond Noodle buoyancy
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง DuncanP ( Lieutenant Commander)
    โœง 114 Views ยท 10 Likes ยท 2 Comments
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    Planking slowly coming along. Attaching each 7mm strip of limewood with Aliphatic glue. Before fitting I'm spreading the glue the entire length of the strip to waterproof it. I've decided to put strips of Pond Noodle under the flooring to stop any build up of water and also to provide buoyancy if required - hopefully not!! It also provides a suitable scratch free support for the hull when turned upside down as the deck is already complete. It is getting more tricky as I'm now encountering curves in two directions. I'm using a Model craft electric plank bending tool which certainly helps. Unfortunately it is rather time consuming and then I keep having recurring thoughts that I need to do it all again for the second layer! Hopefully with a flat surface to glue to it will be easier - wishful thinking! ๐Ÿ˜Š Happy Easter to everyone. Cheers D

    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Pond Noodle buoyancy
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ LewZ ( Rear Admiral)
    โœง 103 Views ยท 4 Likes
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    SPQR - Contrary to your statement, I supposed you never heard of "Double Planking" on real boats?
    Lew
    Florida, USA
    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Pond Noodle buoyancy
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น AlessandroSPQR ( Admiral)
    โœง 110 Views ยท 3 Likes
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    Certainly Duncan, it's as you say: the second planking (which only exists in the modeling sector) is usually always easier, because there is already a surface on which to attach the wooden strips.
    ๐Ÿ“ Planking
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง DuncanP ( Lieutenant Commander)
    โœง 130 Views ยท 15 Likes ยท 3 Comments
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    Hi Doug. No the planking will be in the same lateral plane. I will arrange to have an overlap on the joints on the first layer of planking. When I built the Amati Italian Roundabout (Riva Aquarama) the limewood planks for the first layer were 7 mm wide but the mahogany planks for the second layer were 8mm so you automatically got an overlap! Great idea!

    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Planking
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ช hermank ( Commodore)
    โœง 119 Views ยท 3 Likes
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    DUNCAN P
    what a beauty!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    i wish i had the real one!๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Planking
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง ChrisG ( Commander)
    โœง 124 Views ยท 5 Likes
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    Hello Duncan
    As expected wonderful workmanship from you it is always a pleasure and interesting to note the changes in methods that you often use. I must admit putting the roof on before the sides has me head scratching but on reflection looks a good idea although brave.
    I continue to look longingly at my build but whilst I am keeping the NHS busy I find it hard to get into the garage where I really need to be to continue.
    Soon I hope regards to all ChrisG
    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Planking
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง roycv ( Vice Admiral)
    โœง 123 Views ยท 5 Likes
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    Hi I was contemplating starting with diagonal planking and then the fore and aft.
    I did it for a 40 inch sail boat and it worked well. With the diagonal planking (45 degrees) you do not try and twist a plank to fit just lay it straight and all the gaps are straight line triangles and easily cut to fit.

    The Bruma kit I have has half and half balsa and lime, not easy to tell apart! Mine were all mixed up!
    I am dying to start but felt I had to finish another boat which has been hanging about too long, first. I have got to the part which made me stop in the first place, with trying to solve the problem of a butt joint of the bulwarks at the bow which are sloped etc. The deck already finished so have to be careful.

    I decided that it was best to leave easily disposable things behind me when I kick the bucket rather than part started boats who no-one wants to know!
    So I am following the Bruma build with interest.

    The later 10 page instructions suggest using a hand held steam cleaner for clothes to persuade the planks into position, my daughter said I could use hers as she rarely uses it.

    But I shall be using aliphatic (yellow) glue which is waterproof anyway. I found that on an earlier boat which I had to rectify mistakes I had made that joints that had been held together with spring loaded clips easily came apart while the ones that were clamped with a screw tore the wood apart.

    Regards and keep the pictures coming
    Roy
    ๐Ÿ“ Planking started
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง DuncanP ( Lieutenant Commander)
    โœง 129 Views ยท 15 Likes ยท 3 Comments
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    First few planks attached. Gosh a lot to go and then when finished start again with the second layer! Using Amati planking clamps and also Micromart screw clamps. The latter are expensive to buy in the UK but make the job easier. I'm steeping the planks in boiling water and then using my electric plank bender to form the shape. The Amati planking clamps take a bit of time to assemble so be aware if you are going to buy some! The spring clips help to keep the edges of planks together. I'm coating the inside of the planks completely with Aliphatic glue to waterproof them. Some internal parts of the planks will be impossible to get to later.๐Ÿ˜Š

    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Planking started
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
    โœง 127 Views ยท 7 Likes
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    Only when qualified as Full Members Ross.
    (By special arrangement with the Site Shop๐Ÿ˜. TBA.)
    Thus far we have as Full Plankers:-
    Graham93, Robbob, Mturpin, Dave 976 and JBkiwi.
    Further nominees will be gratefully received and considered.
    Nominations please to FLEET. Care of RNinMunich, MBNavy Bavarian HQ, Isar Flotilla, Munich.
    Both hull and deck Plankers will be considered.
    FLEET, ๐Ÿ˜Ž
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Planking started
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฉ๐Ÿ‡ช RNinMunich ( Fleet Admiral)
    โœง 127 Views ยท 3 Likes
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    Good start Duncan๐Ÿ‘
    As a 'Novice Planker' I'm following with interest.
    Can't wait to see the second layer. Will it be diagonal?
    What wood will be used?
    Cheers, Doug๐Ÿ˜Ž
    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Planking started
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฆ RossM ( Commander)
    โœง 125 Views ยท 5 Likes
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    Do we all get our stuff from the PLANKER'S GUILD๐Ÿ˜‰?
    ๐Ÿ“ Link for available sail winches
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง DuncanP ( Lieutenant Commander)
    โœง 147 Views ยท 5 Likes ยท 1 Comment
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Add Comment
    Sorry here is the link from my earlier post.



    https://www.componentshop.co.uk/55g-sail-winch-servo-4-turns-end-to-end-travel.h
    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Re: Link for available sail winches
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡น AlessandroSPQR ( Admiral)
    โœง 148 Views ยท 1 Like
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    Thanks so much Duncan.
    ๐Ÿ“ Available Sail winch
    1 year ago by ๐Ÿ‡ฌ๐Ÿ‡ง DuncanP ( Lieutenant Commander)
    โœง 147 Views ยท 5 Likes
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    ๐Ÿ’ฌ Add Comment
    Hi Alessandro,
    The Component Shop based in the Wales UK has a number of similar sail winches in stock. The one similar to mine with 4 turns - but has metal gears is only ยฃ14.99. They have others available with 1.5 to 6 turns on the drum.
    Here is the link and when I just looked they are in stock! It is a very good shop for anything to do with models especially electrical items.
    Let us know how you get on. Cheers Duncan.๐Ÿ˜Š

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